It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

On 10/27/2008 3:18 PM Frank Warner spake thus:

It's the little things that drive you nuts.

Yep.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

The solution depends on the problem, and you haven't yet determined what
that problem is. First thing I'd do is measure the voltage at the light
socket; is it over 120 volts (nominal, meaning in range ~ 108-130
volts)? If not, then the problem is elsewhere (high humidity from sink?
vibration in floor above ceiling? too much heat in fixture?)


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

"Frank Warner" wrote in message
. ..
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

A neutral can come loose anywhere along the circuit, not just at the panel,
however if it comes loose, the load on the circuit, in your case, the light
will flicker, and or go out altogether

In , Frank Warner wrote:
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs.

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I have
yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.

The replacements could be shoddy low bid contract manufacturer junkers.

Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

Many of those chandelier style bulbs are cheap junkers. I would look in
a home center for such bulbs of one of the "Big 3" brands (GE, Philips or
Sylvania) for better luck.

Also, chandelier style bulbs with V-shaped filaments are sometimes prone
to having their filaments partially short out in response to vibration.

You may want a different fixture again. Or, try a 40 watt equivalent
candelabra base CFL if it fits.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

If you can get a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the socket, do so.

I like to measure the voltage inside the socket so that I don't have to
open anything up. But it's tigher in a candelabra socket, and it's fairly
easy to short something in there. You may put a severe pit in the socket.
The spark may dislodge a small piece of metal into your eye - safety
goggles are advisable if you do this. Also, don't have a heart attack or
get startled into bumping/breaking something (such as your head) if you
touch something to the wrong thing and make a huge bright spark with a
loud pop.

Maybe better off measuring the voltage leading to the fixture.

- Don Klipstein )

"Frank Warner" wrote in message
. ..
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a

Is there anything changed that could cause more vibration in the area of the
lamp?

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.


If you can get a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the socket, do so.

- Don Klipstein )

My thought is not only to measure the voltage, but to do it during the cycle
of the dishwasher. I'm thinking that it may cause some mini-surges during
the cycles as it starts and stops adding to the premature failure.

"Frank Warner" wrote in message
. ..
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

The fluorescent was burning out too often, but the incan. is about the right
life time if left on continually. 4 weeks is about 700 hours which is close
to the life of standard incandescent builb. Try a CFL bulb.

Claude Hopper wrote:
Frank Warner wrote:
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank


No. A loose neutral would also affect your dishwasher and disposal since
you said they are on the same circuit.


I won't argue with your second sentence, but I don't think you can
simply say "No".

Note that the OP didn't say the light doesn't light, he said they burn
out frequently. *If* the bulbs are burning out because of a loose
neutral, that's doesn't mean you'd see the same impact (how could you?)
on the dishwasher or disposal.

I've had loose neutrals cause flickering lights and the lights were the
only way I knew there was a problem. The fridge and outlets on the same
circuit never displayed any symptoms *that I could see*. I'm not saying
that they might not have failed eventually, but they certainly weren't
affected the same way the lights were.

Don Klipstein wrote:

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I
have yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.


I have ten bayonet fluorescent fixtures that provide security lighting.

Here's some examples (though not the ones I have):

http://www.globalenergy.ie/lighting/products/CFL.html

In article , HeyBub wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I
have yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.


I have ten bayonet fluorescent fixtures that provide security lighting.

Here's some examples (though not the ones I have):

http://www.globalenergy.ie/lighting/products/CFL.html

OK, I see!

But where do you live where the .ie to-leveel-domain is applicable

Where do you live where Joe Sixpack can reasonably deploy ten bayonet
base fluorescent bulbs?

And where in the world would 10 of them be used for "security lighting"
for what I would guess to be one home?

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , HeyBub
wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I
have yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.


I have ten bayonet fluorescent fixtures that provide security
lighting.

Here's some examples (though not the ones I have):

http://www.globalenergy.ie/lighting/products/CFL.html

OK, I see!

But where do you live where the .ie to-leveel-domain is applicable

## I can get to it from here... It was just the first in a Google search.
But here's the actual bulb I use for most of the lights:
http://www.esplighting.com/liofam12wcfl.html


Where do you live where Joe Sixpack can reasonably deploy ten bayonet
base fluorescent bulbs?

## I live in Houston. Plenty of Joes around here.


And where in the world would 10 of them be used for "security
lighting" for what I would guess to be one home?

1 - lighted street number
1 - driveway
1 - walkway
1 - front porch
1 - back door

Times two for my duplex. (I live on one side, office on the other. Commute
time is about 20 seconds.)

First, try a different brand of bulbs. Might be that you're using cheapies.
I found that Phillips blow easier than GE when I had a light over my work
bench.

Failing that, the other maybe problem is bad ground at the panel box.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"RBM" wrote in message
...

A neutral can come loose anywhere along the circuit, not just at the panel,
however if it comes loose, the load on the circuit, in your case, the light
will flicker, and or go out altogether

Green garden snakes come to mind?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
...


I like to measure the voltage inside the socket so that I don't have to
open anything up. But it's tigher in a candelabra socket, and it's fairly
easy to short something in there. You may put a severe pit in the socket.
The spark may dislodge a small piece of metal into your eye - safety
goggles are advisable if you do this. Also, don't have a heart attack or
get startled into bumping/breaking something (such as your head) if you
touch something to the wrong thing and make a huge bright spark with a
loud pop.

Would that be power surges or hot flashes, if it's the woman causing it?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


My thought is not only to measure the voltage, but to do it during the cycle
of the dishwasher. I'm thinking that it may cause some mini-surges during
the cycles as it starts and stops adding to the premature failure.

On Oct 28, 2:52*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Would that be power surges or hot flashes, if it's the woman causing it?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...

My thought is not only to measure the voltage, but to do it during the cycle
of the dishwasher. *I'm thinking that it may cause some mini-surges during
the cycles as it starts and stops adding to the premature failure.

Yes. Possibly.

Will try to explain:
There are two 115 volt supplies into most homes (In North America that
is)!
They normally use 3 wires incoming to the crcuit breaker panel,
sharing the common centre wire called the neutral. (Usually white).

Draw three horizontal lines on a sheet of paper.
Mark the top line + 115 volts. Leg A
Mark the middle line 0 (zero) volts. Neutral.
Mark the bottom line - 115 volts. Leg B

One can see that there are 230 volts between the top and bottom lines
(wires). Leg A and leg B. OK?

Now imagine your light (L) connected between the middle line and the
top line and that it is switched on.
Also imagine some item (could be anything, such as another light, a
toaster plugged into another circuit etc. etc.) (Called I) between
the middle and the bottom line wire.

Now assume that the middle wire is faulty, goes open, goes
intermittent or even goes high resistance?

Looking at the diagram there will be 230 volts across the L and I and
depending on the ratio of the two items at that particular moment in
time the 230 volts could be distributed unequally between L and I.
The voltage across L could momentarily go 'high'.

And since wattage is proportional to 'voltage squared' that could
increase wattage well above above normal.

For example;
Normal 115 x 115 = 13,225
High 130 x 130 = 16,900
Higher 150 x 150 = 22,500
Much higher 180 x 180 = 32,400
Too high 230 x 230 = 52,900 (Wow; even momentarily that is four times
normal!).

Again depending on the ratio of voltages between L and I (BTW I could
be several things all switched on together on that 'other leg', the
momentary voltage across your lamp L could perhaps approach twice
normal?

And 'bad' neutrals can and have caused damage to lights and eqipment.
Could perhaps be going high resistance outside in the supply wires to
the house? So everything in the house could be connected willy nilly
through various circuits across 230 volts!

Think on it anyway.

In article , Claude
Hopper wrote:

Frank Warner wrote:
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank


No. A loose neutral would also affect your dishwasher and disposal since
you said they are on the same circuit.

I misspoke. The dishwasher is on a separate circuit. Only the light
fixture and disposal are on the same circuit. Still haven't opened the
panel yet. That's a weekend job when I can cut power to the whole
panel.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

In article , David
Nebenzahl wrote:

On 10/27/2008 3:18 PM Frank Warner spake thus:

It's the little things that drive you nuts.

Yep.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

The solution depends on the problem, and you haven't yet determined what
that problem is. First thing I'd do is measure the voltage at the light
socket; is it over 120 volts (nominal, meaning in range ~ 108-130
volts)? If not, then the problem is elsewhere (high humidity from sink?
vibration in floor above ceiling? too much heat in fixture?)

Voltage is nominal. I checked. I also checked for 130 volt lamps, which
aren't available at the local big box. Wouldn't voltage spikes affect
other light fixtures in the house? This is the only one displaying a
problem.

Humidity? Maybe.

No vibration to speak of in that wall.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

I have an outside light on my house that eat bulbs every week , the wife
' insisted 'that I replace it .
I went and bought a bulb at a store that only handles qualty
products.Yes I paid way more but after one year it is still working.
Jerry
Don't buy Walmart's crap from China !!!




http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutc...oodWorkingPage

http://community.webtv.net/awoodbutcher/CARWRECK

Don Klipstein wrote:
In , Frank Warner wrote:
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs.

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I have
yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.

The replacements could be shoddy low bid contract manufacturer junkers.


'bout seven years back, we called the gas company (or was it the
university extension service?) about insulating the attic (or putting in
an attic fan?), because they supposedly have energy experts that give
free consultations. Obviously my memory is not precise, but I do
remember that the guy gave us several of the screw-in fluorescents that
are pretty common nowadays.

We tried them with some enthusiasm, but some never worked at all, and
the others stopped working pretty soon. I figured that somebody,
probably the manufacturer, was getting some kind of tax deduction and
maybe solving a mercury-disposal problem at the same time by giving away
their flaky product. I don't remember the brand, but it was one of the
major ones like Phillips or GE or Sylvania.

Since then we've bought similar lamps and put them in at least eight
sockets. We had one go bad after maybe six months and took it back to
the retailer, who replaced it, although I don't know that they were
required to. The others are doing okay for maybe a couple years now.

In article , HeyBub wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , HeyBub
wrote:
Don Klipstein wrote:

Bayonet base fluorescent? I thought I knew light bulbs well, and I
have yet to hear of a bayonet fluorescent.


I have ten bayonet fluorescent fixtures that provide security
lighting.

Here's some examples (though not the ones I have):

http://www.globalenergy.ie/lighting/products/CFL.html

OK, I see!

But where do you live where the .ie to-leveel-domain is applicable

## I can get to it from here... It was just the first in a Google search.
But here's the actual bulb I use for most of the lights:
http://www.esplighting.com/liofam12wcfl.html

I see lack of bayonet base. The image shown there has pin base.

The bulb shown there is also a 12 watt FUL type - which is *arguably
not* a compact fluorescent due to being much less compact than, say,
the PL-13 /AKA/ F13TT and also due to usually having an "old tech"
phosphor.

Furthermore, the above link has some tendency to confirm my experience
of that particular beast being to some notable extent by "LOA". My
experience in Usenet is that "LOA" gets a notable share of bad press.
My experience elsewhere on Planet Earth is telling me that the "bad press"
was justified.

DISCLAIMER - I have only purchased one LOA product since 2001-2002 or
so, and was disappointed by it on basis of falling short of claimed light
output. The LOA products that I purchased before then have entirely
fallen short of claimed light output and also had a spectacularly high
rate of "dying young".
And I have a delivery job, and I look at and see lights by the hundreds
of thousands, including 10's of thousands of CFLs. I found highest
percentage being burned out while remaining fixture both overall and also
highest percentage of ones known to have burned out in less than 1.5 years
or so to be LOA ones.

Of course, LOA may have improved since I started largely avoiding them,
and I have experienced worse than LOA - namely the outright stool
specimens of CFLs sold in many but not all dollar stores!

Where do you live where Joe Sixpack can reasonably deploy ten bayonet
base fluorescent bulbs?

## I live in Houston. Plenty of Joes around here.

However, your above link has a photo showing a pin-base model and no
reference of any kind to anything with a bayonet base.

And where in the world would 10 of them be used for "security
lighting" for what I would guess to be one home?

1 - lighted street number
1 - driveway
1 - walkway
1 - front porch
1 - back door

Times two for my duplex. (I live on one side, office on the other. Commute
time is about 20 seconds.)

Are they all bayonet base models of CFL? Are not any of them screw base
or pin base? Do you actually use CFLs for all 10 of these locations? Do
you use bayonet base CFLs for all 10 of them? You did already respond
by providing a link showing an only-arguably CFL that is pin base and
not bayonet base according to the photo.

- Don Klipstein )

On Oct 27, 7:18*pm, Frank Warner wrote:
It's the little things that drive you nuts.

We've got a light fixture over our kitchen sink. For the first three
years of its existence it worked flawlessly. We keep it on 24-7 as a
night light and for accent.

The fixture used one bayonet type florescent lamp. It's on the same
circuit as the dishwasher and disposal.

About six months ago the lamp burned out. We replaced it and it worked
fine. A month later, the new lamp burned out. This repeated about four
times when we finally decided to replace the fixture entirely, figuring
there was something wrong with it (faulty ballast?) instead of the
bulbs. Now we have an incandescent fixture with a single 40 watt
candelabra bulb.

These bulbs burn out with the same frequency, about every 3-4 weeks. So
now I think there's a problem with the wiring.

I've looked around at some DYI forums and one fellow had the same
problem for years. He said he fixed it by going to the panel. The
neutral wire to that circuit had repeatedly heated and cooled and
worked itself loose. He said he retightened the neutral connection and
the problems stopped.

I'm not at home right now so I can't check, but does this sound like a
possible solution?

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:http://www.franksknives.com/

I changed a stairwell light to the bayonet type and have regretted it
ever since. I got years of life out of the old flourescent tube type
but only a few months from the bayonet type.