My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

On Oct 20, 1:55*pm, Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

The make an external, tankless hot water heater for just over $1000.
It would probably work well for your needs. I think it mounts to the
house, not on a slab so you'll save some there. It's on the Home
Depot site (as well as others, I'm sure".

Just a thought.

Pat.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:55:01 +0000, Mac Cool wrote:

My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently
had it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or
later. I want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4
feet square to house the new water heater and also use as a small tool
shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the
edges. -stick frame construction with masonite sheathing. -some type of
insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round.
Hurricanes would be the biggest worry but the building would be
sheltered from the worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll
make sure to attach the building to the foundation!). The only real
worry would be heavy rain, mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly
a heavy tree limb falling on it. The building would backed up against a
brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be
hooking up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around
the water heater?

I don't know your local area, but would you mind posting back if your
idea has any problems with local building codes or requires a building
permit?

You may be able to get away with it, but that idea sure sounds like it
would need a building permit and an inspection where I live.

On 20 Oct 2008 17:55:01 GMT, Mac Cool wrote Re I want
to move my water heater outside. Considerations?:

What do I need to worry about?
The slab settling and breaking the pipes loose?
No

Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace?
Yes. Add as much insulation as possible.

Same for the shed walls & door, and wrap the tank like this
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consume.../mytopic=13070

How much space do I need around the water heater?
Enough to be able to easily work on it if you have any problems in the
future. I would do at least 18" if I was doing this myself.

Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We
recently had it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced
sooner or later. I want to build a small lean-to building, probably
2x4 or 4x4 feet square to house the new water heater and also use as
a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the
edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round.
Hurricanes would be the biggest worry but the building would be
sheltered from the worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry
I'll make sure to attach the building to the foundation!). The only
real worry would be heavy rain, mild flooding (couple of inches) and
possibly a heavy tree limb falling on it. The building would backed
up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be
hooking up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the
pipes loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the
crawlspace? (Our waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much
space do I need around the water heater?

Water heaters are often located outside the home, in garages, for example.

Flexible hoses connecting the rest of the plumbing should resolve any
movement concerns. Space surrounding the unit is almost irrelevant - give
yourself enough room to maneuver the sucker or work on it, you should be
fine. A modest amount of insulation is a plus.

Mounting the water heater on a (strong) pedestal would protect it against
flooding as well as making it easier to light the pilot (if gas).

Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

I was thinking about doing the same thing. But I have concerns about the cold
weather and how much more it would cost to run. I am in North East, North
Carolina. Our water heater is also under the counter and we would like the space
to put in a dish washer. Existing water heater sits right next to the sink.
Moving it outside would only put it about 3 feet further away.


Chris

On Oct 20, 12:55*pm, Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does

On Oct 20, 6:46�pm, ransley wrote:
On Oct 20, 12:55�pm, Mac Cool wrote:





My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

outdoor even if 50 degrees will run up energy costs

ransley:

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does

This is where the insulation comes in. And actually I keep water jugs in
my unheated, uninsulated, work shop and they have never froze. The weather
here is pretty mild.

Pat:
The make an external, tankless hot water heater for just over $1000.
It would probably work well for your needs. I think it mounts to the
house, not on a slab so you'll save some there. It's on the Home
Depot site (as well as others, I'm sure".

Just a thought.

Pat.


I asked my plumber about going tankless and he warned that installation
would probably run $4-5k; otherwise I like the idea. Also, natural gas
isn't available and I'm getting rid of my propane tank within the next few
weeks.

On Oct 20, 11:10�pm, Mac Cool wrote:
ransley:

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does

This is where the insulation comes in. And actually I keep water jugs in
my unheated, uninsulated, work shop and they have never froze. The weather
here is pretty mild.

of the tank is indoors standby losses help heat your home.

a tank outdoors no matter how great the insulation loses heat to the
outdoors.

the temp difference is larger so the loss nis larger, and losses are
just loses.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:27:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote Re I want to move my water heater outside.
Considerations?:

On Oct 20, 11:10?pm, Mac Cool wrote:
ransley:

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does

This is where the insulation comes in. And actually I keep water jugs in
my unheated, uninsulated, work shop and they have never froze. The weather
here is pretty mild.

of the tank is indoors standby losses help heat your home.

During the summer, those standby losses contribute to the cooling
load. He needs the space for a dishwasher, so he shouldn't have a
standby loss problem if he adequately insulates.

On Oct 21, 9:51�am, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:27:11 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote Re I want to move my water heater outside.
Considerations?:

On Oct 20, 11:10?pm, Mac Cool wrote:
ransley:

If it gets 32 and below forget it and im sure it does

This is where the insulation comes in. And actually I keep water jugs in
my unheated, uninsulated, work shop and they have never froze. The weather
here is pretty mild.

of the tank is indoors standby losses help heat your home.

During the summer, those standby losses contribute to the cooling
load. He needs the space for a dishwasher, so he shouldn't have a
standby loss problem if he adequately insulates.

mid atlantic likely means much longer heating than cooling
season........

and your assuming he has AC

wrote:
....
mid atlantic likely means much longer heating than cooling
season........
....

I'd say that's likely backwards -- what would you consider Raleigh, NC, say?

--

:

of the tank is indoors standby losses help heat your home.
I'm sure its neglibible. I'm buying $1600-2000 propane per year, I doubt a
water heater will offset more than a few dollars of that and we cool about
twice as long as we heat so if anything it would be a net gain.

a tank outdoors no matter how great the insulation loses heat to the
outdoors.

the temp difference is larger so the loss nis larger, and losses are
just loses.

Well again this works both ways in that summers are long and hot while the
winters are short and mild. Occasionally, it gets cold enough to freeze a
container of water solid.

On 20 Oct 2008 17:55:01 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:

My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

I know California homes have external water heaters, with no risk of
freezing. I like the idea of a heater made for exterior use. The
manufacturer of the appliance should state clearances. Line the shack
with hardware cloth to keep out the critters yet allow a little
venting.

On Oct 20, 12:55*pm, Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

Are you thinking tankless, then there is no comparison to a gallon jug
and a tankless coil made to trasfer heat, either get one with freeze
protection or forget it and hope the circuit works, I say to risky
unless a light bulb or heater kicks on at 32

Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

I'm working on a job right now where the contractor has
installed a natural gas tankless water heater on the
outside wall of a restaurant. The main thing you must
consider with tankless heaters is "rate of flow" me and
my friends install them with ball valves which makes
adjustment of the rate of flow an easy task.

TDD

On Oct 21, 8:32�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.

-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)

I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.

I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)

What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?

I'm working on a job right now where the contractor has
installed a natural gas tankless water heater on the
outside wall of a restaurant. The main thing you must
consider with tankless heaters is "rate of flow" me and
my friends install them with ball valves which makes
adjustment of the rate of flow an easy task.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

with a tank type no flow limit is necessary or desierable for that
matter.

electric tankless are a waste of money ...

ransley:

Are you thinking tankless, then there is no comparison to a gallon jug
and a tankless coil made to trasfer heat, either get one with freeze
protection or forget it and hope the circuit works, I say to risky
unless a light bulb or heater kicks on at 32

Its a water heater, its full of hot water; if jug of unheated water
doesn't freeze then 50 gallons of hot water isn't going to freeze.

wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:32�pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.
-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)
I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.
I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)
What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?
I'm working on a job right now where the contractor has
installed a natural gas tankless water heater on the
outside wall of a restaurant. The main thing you must
consider with tankless heaters is "rate of flow" me and
my friends install them with ball valves which makes
adjustment of the rate of flow an easy task.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

with a tank type no flow limit is necessary or desierable for that
matter.

electric tankless are a waste of money ...

Me and a friend installed a very interesting tankless heater
manufactured by Bosch. The unit had a little paddle wheel
generator that ignited the pilot light then main burner when
the water is turned on. It supplied endless hot water for a
beauty shop.

TDD

On Oct 22, 1:29�am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:32 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.
-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)
I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.
I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)
What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?
I'm working on a job right now where the contractor has
installed a natural gas tankless water heater on the
outside wall of a restaurant. The main thing you must
consider with tankless heaters is "rate of flow" me and
my friends install them with ball valves which makes
adjustment of the rate of flow an easy task.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

with a tank type no flow limit is necessary or desierable for that
matter.

electric tankless are a waste of money ...

Me and a friend installed a very interesting tankless heater
manufactured by Bosch. The unit had a little paddle wheel
generator that ignited the pilot light then main burner when
the water is turned on. It supplied endless hot water for a
beauty shop.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah but it takes time for the wheel to start turning, then get the
burners going.

so delays and wasted water and sewer are to be expected

wrote:
On Oct 22, 1:29�am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:32 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:
My water heater is an old electric under the counter type. We recently had
it repaired but it will probably need to be replaced sooner or later. I
want to build a small lean-to building, probably 2x4 or 4x4 feet square to
house the new water heater and also use as a small tool shed.
-Plan on pouring a 3.5" concrete slab, a little thicker around the edges.
-stick frame construction with masonite sheathing.
-some type of insulation (undecided)
I am in the mid-atlantic region so weather is mild year round. Hurricanes
would be the biggest worry but the building would be sheltered from the
worst of the wind by the house (but don't worry I'll make sure to attach
the building to the foundation!). The only real worry would be heavy rain,
mild flooding (couple of inches) and possibly a heavy tree limb falling on
it. The building would backed up against a brick house.
I'm building the shed, running the electric and a plumber will be hooking
up the water heater. (I'm a terrible plumber)
What do I need to worry about? The slab settling and breaking the pipes
loose? Insulating the pipes between the shed and the crawlspace? (Our
waterlines run through the crawlspace) How much space do I need around the
water heater?
I'm working on a job right now where the contractor has
installed a natural gas tankless water heater on the
outside wall of a restaurant. The main thing you must
consider with tankless heaters is "rate of flow" me and
my friends install them with ball valves which makes
adjustment of the rate of flow an easy task.
TDD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
with a tank type no flow limit is necessary or desierable for that
matter.
electric tankless are a waste of money ...
Me and a friend installed a very interesting tankless heater
manufactured by Bosch. The unit had a little paddle wheel
generator that ignited the pilot light then main burner when
the water is turned on. It supplied endless hot water for a
beauty shop.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

yeah but it takes time for the wheel to start turning, then get the
burners going.

so delays and wasted water and sewer are to be expected

Not really, no more than with a tank type. The heat exchanger
on the Bosch heater is very efficient and the heater put out
hot water almost immediately. It's a real energy saver.

TDD