David Nebenzahl wrote in news:48cdbd87$0$26315
:

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)





o and George Bush

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

On 9/14/2008 6:45 PM Red Green spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote in news:48cdbd87$0$26315
:

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)

o and George Bush

Yep! Thank you for pointing out my omission.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

(I am following up to say which ones are close enough to Not A Problem)

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)

Solder in electronic equipment accounts for little lead in the
environment, and less still as circuit boards are shrunk as
miniaturization progresses. Solder with lead is unusual by not having a
crystal boundary movement process prone to growing whiskers. Try web
searching for "tin whiskers" - although that is a problem with any
lead-free solder achieved so far that melts at an appropriate temperature
for soldering electronic components.

Lead-acid batteries, tetraethyl lead for gasoline and lead paint
accounted for close to all lead going into the environment. Lead-acid
batteries are still around, but most get properly recycled now. Lead
output into the environment has had a monumental decrease, even in the USA
where it is still legal to make consumer electronic products with solder
that has lead.

o Drainpipe sealant

Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

o CRT X-ray shielding

My experience with CRT TVs is that those are steel. Unless you are
talking about within the CRT - in which case the lead is in the form of
leaded glass, and the lead does an extremely excellent job of staying in
the glass, even if the glass is broken into small pieces.

o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)

CFLs can actually reduce mercury pollution unless used unwisely - by
reducing mercury emissions from coal fired power plants. When they last
past about 5,000 hours and replace incandescents of at least 60 watts, on
average they actually do that.

o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)

- Don Klipstein )

David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)


I already miss asbestos, there really is no good replacement for it in
some applications (heat shield blankets for welding/soldering, etc)
also low/no lead solder is way harder to work with than the old stuff.
Also lead is still commonly used in batteries and that's not likely to
change any time soon.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 9/14/2008 9:15 PM Don Klipstein spake thus:

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

(I am following up to say which ones are close enough to Not A Problem)

o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)

Solder in electronic equipment accounts for little lead in the
environment, and less still as circuit boards are shrunk as
miniaturization progresses.

Not true, considering how much elecronics ends up in landfills. Oh,
yeah, I know, it's *supposed* to be disposed of properly by those who
discard it, but let's get real: how many people do you think actually
take their old TVs, computers, cell phones, answering machines, games,
audio equipment, radios, CD players, remotes, pagers, etc., to a
recycling center or disposal facility? Hell, in my neighborhood, they
just leave that **** out on the street!

Solder with lead is unusual by not having a crystal boundary movement
process prone to growing whiskers. Try web searching for "tin
whiskers" - although that is a problem with any lead-free solder
achieved so far that melts at an appropriate temperature for
soldering electronic components.

I'm aware of those and other problems with lead-free solder. That's
another discussion.

Lead-acid batteries, tetraethyl lead for gasoline and lead paint
accounted for close to all lead going into the environment. Lead-acid
batteries are still around, but most get properly recycled now. Lead
output into the environment has had a monumental decrease, even in the USA
where it is still legal to make consumer electronic products with solder
that has lead.

o Drainpipe sealant

Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

Oh, I don't know, how about *lead leaching into wastewater*?

o CRT X-ray shielding

My experience with CRT TVs is that those are steel. Unless you are
talking about within the CRT - in which case the lead is in the form of
leaded glass, and the lead does an extremely excellent job of staying in
the glass, even if the glass is broken into small pieces.

I'm talking about the lead in the tube. Not sure how inert the lead is
inside the glass; I've always heard this particular source of lead
discussed as dangerous. (Remember that there is 5-10 lb. of lead in the
average CRT.)

o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)

CFLs can actually reduce mercury pollution unless used unwisely - by
reducing mercury emissions from coal fired power plants. When they last
past about 5,000 hours and replace incandescents of at least 60 watts, on
average they actually do that.

I'm talking about the mercury contained in CFLs themselves. Again, not a
problem (or not as much of a problem) if disposed of properly, but
again, with millions of CFLs in circulation, how many of them are
actually going to be? I've even contributed to the problem by dropping
them on the floor ...


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:45:29 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote Re Toxic dangerous stuff your
grandchildren won't miss:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

None of this stuff is being prevented from entering the environment.
It's entry point (and associated jobs) has merely moved from the U.S.
and Europe to China, India and South America.

lead, mercury, and asbestos come 'from' the environment.

"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:45:29 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote Re Toxic dangerous stuff your
grandchildren won't miss:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

None of this stuff is being prevented from entering the environment.
It's entry point (and associated jobs) has merely moved from the U.S.
and Europe to China, India and South America.

On Sep 14, 9:45*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
* *o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
* *o Solder (per ROHS regs)
* *o Drainpipe sealant
* *o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)

--
* Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

I survived all these things plus I worked in chemistry most of my life
and was exposed to some of the most toxic substances known to man.
Fortunately the human body can tolerate de minimus exposures of most
chemicals with no ill effect. I abhor the chemophobia that pervaids
today. I'm not saying you should wallow in toxic substance but am
saying we should stop being a bunch of wimps.

tobacco products of all types...........

they are on their way out thank goodness, new law in PA prohibiting
smoking in most public spaces.

I recommend a buck a pack health tax increasing a buck a year.

year ione extra dollar year 10 ten dollars extra.

stupid product kills so many ...........

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

You must be some kind of weenie-boy liberal puke. I bet you ran to your
mommy anytime the school yard bullies came after you...and you've no doubt
grown up to be a full-blown girly-man....

Nate Nagel wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)


I already miss asbestos, there really is no good replacement for it in
some applications (heat shield blankets for welding/soldering, etc) also
low/no lead solder is way harder to work with than the old stuff. Also
lead is still commonly used in batteries and that's not likely to change
any time soon.

nate


I think good quality no lead solder is easy to work with. I didn't even
realize there was a lame version until a buddy asked me to help him
replace his water heater. To save a trip back home and then back to his
place I told him to pick up some couplings, solder and flux. He bought
them at home depot. The solder was really tricky to use. It barely wet
the joint so it was hard to tell if it was a good joint and the finished
joint had a rough greyish appearance. The solder I buy from the real
store wets just as nicely as 50/50 did and the finished joint looks the
same and the solder was less expensive.

Years ago, a town official was getting upset with a guy spraying motor oil
on the country road, to keep the dust down. My friend said to the town
official "The oil came out of the ground, right?"

Yes, lead and mercury came out of the ground. But the question is..... in
their former state, in the lead and mercury mines, were they toxic to
humans? Did we chemically manipulate them so they can get into humans?
That's where I'm not sure.

I've heard mercury in vaccinations "thimerosol" causes problems for kids.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
lead, mercury, and asbestos come 'from' the environment.

A guy I know has been smoking since his early days. He's 50 now, and had at
least one heart attack that nearly killed him. Since he's on welfare (and
since NYS mandates hospitals and ambulance to treat anyone who calls,
regardless of ability to pay) he got a tax payer supported couple days in
the hospital. And lot of taxpayer supported medicines and follow up visits.

To take care of his health, he cut down on sodium, and continues to smoke.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
tobacco products of all types...........

they are on their way out thank goodness, new law in PA prohibiting
smoking in most public spaces.

I recommend a buck a pack health tax increasing a buck a year.

year ione extra dollar year 10 ten dollars extra.

stupid product kills so many ...........

On Sep 15, 9:04*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Years ago, a town official was getting upset with a guy spraying motor oil
on the country road, to keep the dust down. My friend said to the town
official "The oil came out of the ground, right?"

Yes, lead and mercury came out of the ground. But the question is..... in
their former state, in the lead and mercury mines, were they toxic to
humans? Did we chemically manipulate them so they can get into humans?
That's where I'm not sure.

I've heard mercury in vaccinations "thimerosol" causes problems for kids.

And I've heard there's an invisible pink unicorn in Central Park, but
who can say?

The risk from thimerosal is minute compare to the good that vaccines
do.

Cindy Hamilton

AMEN! I agree. Some the finest products available to us are on this list.
Now we have nothing. I'll keep my chlordane jug handy. I have plenty.

s


"Frank" wrote in message
...
On Sep 14, 9:45 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:


I survived all these things plus I worked in chemistry most of my life
and was exposed to some of the most toxic substances known to man.
Fortunately the human body can tolerate de minimus exposures of most
chemicals with no ill effect. I abhor the chemophobia that pervaids
today. I'm not saying you should wallow in toxic substance but am
saying we should stop being a bunch of wimps.

I just use the good ol' 50/50. The stained glass shops have plenty.


s


"George" wrote in message
...

I think good quality no lead solder is easy to work with. I didn't even
realize there was a lame version until a buddy asked me to help him
replace his water heater. To save a trip back home and then back to his
place I told him to pick up some couplings, solder and flux. He bought
them at home depot. The solder was really tricky to use. It barely wet the
joint so it was hard to tell if it was a good joint and the finished joint
had a rough greyish appearance. The solder I buy from the real store wets
just as nicely as 50/50 did and the finished joint looks the same and the
solder was less expensive.

"Runtime Error" crash@win wrote in message
. ..


You must be some kind of weenie-boy liberal puke. I bet you ran to your mommy
anytime the school yard bullies came after you...and you've no doubt grown up
to be a full-blown girly-man....


Ahhh! The pride of the republicans. So doubtful of his own sexuality.

Did anyone mention carbon tetrachloride yet?

nate

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
AMEN! I agree. Some the finest products available to us are on this list.
Now we have nothing. I'll keep my chlordane jug handy. I have plenty.

s


"Frank" wrote in message
...
On Sep 14, 9:45 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:


I survived all these things plus I worked in chemistry most of my life
and was exposed to some of the most toxic substances known to man.
Fortunately the human body can tolerate de minimus exposures of most
chemicals with no ill effect. I abhor the chemophobia that pervaids
today. I'm not saying you should wallow in toxic substance but am
saying we should stop being a bunch of wimps.




--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
I just use the good ol' 50/50. The stained glass shops have plenty.


s


"George" wrote in message
...

I think good quality no lead solder is easy to work with. I didn't even
realize there was a lame version until a buddy asked me to help him
replace his water heater. To save a trip back home and then back to his
place I told him to pick up some couplings, solder and flux. He bought
them at home depot. The solder was really tricky to use. It barely wet the
joint so it was hard to tell if it was a good joint and the finished joint
had a rough greyish appearance. The solder I buy from the real store wets
just as nicely as 50/50 did and the finished joint looks the same and the
solder was less expensive.


I have 50/50 but since the lead free stuff works really well and isn't
expensive I don't see any reason not to use it.

On Sep 14, 8:45*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
* *o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
* *o Solder (per ROHS regs)
* *o Drainpipe sealant
* *o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)

--
* Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

And we know you have thrown out your Lead Acid car battery, Nicads,
Alkalines, pesticides, and CCA lumber already, right.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)

And easy-open medicine bottles.

Pity.

I wanted my children to have the same opportunities I did...

You can still request those. At least on the Rx ones.

s


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...


And easy-open medicine bottles.

Right after DDT, and before PCB? I know I saw it some where...

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Did anyone mention carbon tetrachloride yet?

nate

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 9/14/2008 9:15 PM Don Klipstein spake thus:

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

(I am following up to say which ones are close enough to Not A Problem)

o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)

Solder in electronic equipment accounts for little lead in the
environment, and less still as circuit boards are shrunk as
miniaturization progresses.

Not true, considering how much elecronics ends up in landfills. Oh,
yeah, I know, it's *supposed* to be disposed of properly by those who
discard it, but let's get real: how many people do you think actually
take their old TVs, computers, cell phones, answering machines, games,
audio equipment, radios, CD players, remotes, pagers, etc., to a
recycling center or disposal facility? Hell, in my neighborhood, they
just leave that **** out on the street!

The solder content already accounted for little lead contribution to the
environment, and is greatly shrinking! I even dare to say that there is
not even 1 gram of lead in a modern cell phone or a modern answering
machine! I suspect that my cellphone, if it has its solder being the
lead-containing "good stuff", would have close to .2 gram of lead!

Solder with lead is unusual by not having a crystal boundary movement
process prone to growing whiskers. Try web searching for "tin
whiskers" - although that is a problem with any lead-free solder
achieved so far that melts at an appropriate temperature for
soldering electronic components.

I'm aware of those and other problems with lead-free solder. That's
another discussion.

I find requirements/forcings/encouragements to use lead-free solder (or
else go out of business) to be *very relevant* here!

Lead-acid batteries, tetraethyl lead for gasoline and lead paint
accounted for close to all lead going into the environment. Lead-acid
batteries are still around, but most get properly recycled now. Lead
output into the environment has had a monumental decrease, even in the USA
where it is still legal to make consumer electronic products with solder
that has lead.

o Drainpipe sealant

Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

Oh, I don't know, how about *lead leaching into wastewater*?

Please tell me how drain sealant has lead!!!

o CRT X-ray shielding

My experience with CRT TVs is that those are steel. Unless you are
talking about within the CRT - in which case the lead is in the form of
leaded glass, and the lead does an extremely excellent job of staying in
the glass, even if the glass is broken into small pieces.

I'm talking about the lead in the tube. Not sure how inert the lead is
inside the glass; I've always heard this particular source of lead
discussed as dangerous.

Mainly, more like entirely falsely!

(Remember that there is 5-10 lb. of lead in the
average CRT.)

Can you cite that, especially for a TV that weighs only 30 pounds?

And *More Importyantly*, how does lead content getting into a few pounds
become an environmental hazard if it is in lead-containing glass? In
such glass, the lead has an *extremely impressive* rate of staying part of
the glass, even if the glass is broken and even ground into crumbs!!!

o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)

CFLs can actually reduce mercury pollution unless used unwisely - by
reducing mercury emissions from coal fired power plants. When they last
past about 5,000 hours and replace incandescents of at least 60 watts, on
average they actually do that.

I'm talking about the mercury contained in CFLs themselves. Again, not a
problem (or not as much of a problem) if disposed of properly, but
again, with millions of CFLs in circulation, how many of them are
actually going to be? I've even contributed to the problem by dropping
them on the floor ...

And I expect that if *you* bought enough CFLs for home usage in my
nation to bust 2 of them, I suspect more likely you have a good chance of
*decreasing* how much mercury I have to inhale or eat by increasing CFL
usage! Even if your home is only 100 miles upwind of mine!

0- Don Klipstein )

In article , Stormin Mormon wrote:
Years ago, a town official was getting upset with a guy spraying motor oil
on the country road, to keep the dust down. My friend said to the town
official "The oil came out of the ground, right?"

Yes, lead and mercury came out of the ground. But the question is..... in
their former state, in the lead and mercury mines, were they toxic to
humans? Did we chemically manipulate them so they can get into humans?
That's where I'm not sure.

I've heard mercury in vaccinations "thimerosol" causes problems for kids.

"Thimerosol" appears to me to be an "older tech" antiseptic, and to not
to be a vaccination injection ingredient at any time let-alone now!

For that matter, this is the first I ever heard of anything (even for
only an accusation) mercury in vaccinations!

- Don Klipstein )

In article , Nate Nagel wrote:

Did anyone mention carbon tetrachloride yet?

A truly "nonpolar" chlorinated hydrocarbon is "especially-more-bad".

The originally posted list lacked this! (except for PCBs)

- Don Klipstein )

In article , George wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)


I already miss asbestos, there really is no good replacement for it in
some applications (heat shield blankets for welding/soldering, etc) also
low/no lead solder is way harder to work with than the old stuff. Also
lead is still commonly used in batteries and that's not likely to change
any time soon.

nate


I think good quality no lead solder is easy to work with. I didn't even
realize there was a lame version until a buddy asked me to help him
replace his water heater. To save a trip back home and then back to his
place I told him to pick up some couplings, solder and flux. He bought
them at home depot. The solder was really tricky to use. It barely wet
the joint so it was hard to tell if it was a good joint and the finished
joint had a rough greyish appearance. The solder I buy from the real
store wets just as nicely as 50/50 did and the finished joint looks the
same and the solder was less expensive.

In electronic circuit board work, see what the lead-free solder does!
All-too-often, it sprouts big long whiskers in a matter of a few years!
And please don't believe that these whiskers are absent if you don't see
them, since they are usually microscopically thin/narrow!

- Don Klipstein )

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:45:21 -0500, Red Green wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote in news:48cdbd87$0$26315
:

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)





o and George Bush

Obama

On Sep 15, 9:34*pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:



On 9/14/2008 9:15 PM Don Klipstein spake thus:

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

(I am following up to say which ones are close enough to Not A Problem)

o Lead:
* o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
* o Solder (per ROHS regs)

* Solder in electronic equipment accounts for little lead in the
environment, and less still as circuit boards are shrunk as
miniaturization progresses.

Not true, considering how much elecronics ends up in landfills. Oh,
yeah, I know, it's *supposed* to be disposed of properly by those who
discard it, but let's get real: how many people do you think actually
take their old TVs, computers, cell phones, answering machines, games,
audio equipment, radios, CD players, remotes, pagers, etc., to a
recycling center or disposal facility? Hell, in my neighborhood, they
just leave that **** out on the street!

* The solder content already accounted for little lead contribution to the
environment, and is greatly shrinking! *I even dare to say that there is
not even 1 gram of lead in a modern cell phone or a modern answering
machine! *I suspect that my cellphone, if it has its solder being the
lead-containing "good stuff", would have close to .2 gram of lead!

Solder with lead is unusual by not having a crystal boundary movement
process prone to growing whiskers. Try web searching for "tin
whiskers" - although that is a problem with any lead-free solder
achieved so far that melts at an appropriate temperature for
soldering electronic components.

I'm aware of those and other problems with lead-free solder. That's
another discussion.

* I find requirements/forcings/encouragements to use lead-free solder (or
else go out of business) to be *very relevant* here!

* Lead-acid batteries, tetraethyl lead for gasoline and lead paint
accounted for close to all lead going into the environment. *Lead-acid
batteries are still around, but most get properly recycled now. *Lead
output into the environment has had a monumental decrease, even in the USA
where it is still legal to make consumer electronic products with solder
that has lead.

* o Drainpipe sealant

* Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

Oh, I don't know, how about *lead leaching into wastewater*?

* Please tell me how drain sealant has lead!!!

* o CRT X-ray shielding

* My experience with CRT TVs is that those are steel. *Unless you are
talking about within the CRT - in which case the lead is in the form of
leaded glass, and the lead does an extremely excellent job of staying in
the glass, even if the glass is broken into small pieces.

I'm talking about the lead in the tube. Not sure how inert the lead is
inside the glass; I've always heard this particular source of lead
discussed as dangerous.

* Mainly, more like entirely falsely!

(Remember that there is 5-10 lb. of lead in the
average CRT.)

* Can you cite that, especially for a TV that weighs only 30 pounds?

* And *More Importyantly*, how does lead content getting into a few pounds
become an environmental hazard if it is in lead-containing glass? *In
such glass, the lead has an *extremely impressive* rate of staying part of
the glass, even if the glass is broken and even ground into crumbs!!!

o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)

* CFLs can actually reduce mercury pollution unless used unwisely - by
reducing mercury emissions from coal fired power plants. *When they last
past about 5,000 hours and replace incandescents of at least 60 watts, on
average they actually do that.

I'm talking about the mercury contained in CFLs themselves. Again, not a
problem (or not as much of a problem) if disposed of properly, but
again, with millions of CFLs in circulation, how many of them are
actually going to be? I've even contributed to the problem by dropping
them on the floor ...

* And I expect that if *you* bought enough CFLs for home usage in my
nation to bust 2 of them, I suspect more likely you have a good chance of
*decreasing* how much mercury I have to inhale or eat by increasing CFL
usage! *Even if your home is only 100 miles upwind of mine!

*0- Don Klipstein )





o Drainpipe sealant

Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

Oh, I don't know, how about *lead leaching into wastewater*?

Please tell me how drain sealant has lead!!





I believe the OP is referring to the original practice of using lead &
oakum (?) to assemble cast iron drain lines.

Leaching of lead into waste water was probably very minimal but with
waste water from lots of houses draining into a semi-closed body of
water concentrations could build up.

Even copper fresh water plumbing leaches copper into water and over
time contributes to increasing copper levels in San Francisco bay.

cheers
Bob

On 9/16/2008 7:44 AM BobK207 spake thus:

On Sep 15, 9:34 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:

In m, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

o Drainpipe sealant

Can you tell me what is inherently wrong with that one?

Oh, I don't know, how about *lead leaching into wastewater*?

Please tell me how drain sealant has lead!!

I believe the OP is referring to the original practice of using lead &
oakum (?) to assemble cast iron drain lines.

Leaching of lead into waste water was probably very minimal but with
waste water from lots of houses draining into a semi-closed body of
water concentrations could build up.

Even copper fresh water plumbing leaches copper into water and over
time contributes to increasing copper levels in San Francisco bay.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. Just saw another lead-sealed joint
helping a friend work on the drain line from his 100+-year old
Victorian. The point, as you stated, is that small amounts of leached
metal do add up. So maybe there actually is a *good reason* we don't use
lead and oakum that way anymore, even though it does create a very good
seal.

(btw, please get in the habit of trimming replies)


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire

Mike Dobony wrote in
:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:45:21 -0500, Red Green wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote in
news:48cdbd87$0$26315 :

In no particular order:

o Asbestos (insulation, siding, gaskets, etc.)
o Lead:
o Gasoline additive (tetraethyl lead)
o Solder (per ROHS regs)
o Drainpipe sealant
o CRT X-ray shielding
o Oil-based paints, varnishes and sealants
o Mercury (in CFLs, batteries, etc.)
o CFCs (refrigerants, aerosol propellants, etc.)
o PCBs (electrical insulator & coolant)
o Chlorinated solvents (carbon tetrachloride, etc.)

Maybe humans really do have the capacity to learn.
(or maybe not)





o and George Bush

Obama

Still hiding in the hills?