Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon 2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

On Aug 18, 9:17*am, Mikepier wrote:
Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon *2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
*My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

I see caulk that is probably there because of leaks, there should be a
metal valley instead of just shingles up the valley.

Mikepier wrote:
Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon 2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem
Hi,
Do you have a fhashing in the valley? How is the water routed when it
flows down along the valley? It is impossible to change the direction
against it's natural flow.

On Aug 18, 9:17*am, Mikepier wrote:
Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon *2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
*My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

If leak is at area of gutter then I would not be suprised as the water
is forced under shingles into one area

On Aug 18, 10:40*am, ransley wrote:
On Aug 18, 9:17*am, Mikepier wrote:





Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon *2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
*My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

I see caulk that is probably there because of leaks, there should be a
metal valley instead of just shingles up the valley.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but at the
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

Mikepier wrote:
....
... One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.
http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem
I see caulk that is probably there because of leaks, there should be a
metal valley instead of just shingles up the valley.
There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but at the
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

Besides that indication there's been a problem somebody has tried to
cover up...

1) The gutter shouldn't be dumping out onto the roof at such a close
distance and especially w/ such a low pitch. When it really rains hard
a virtual river will be coming out of that end gutter and running back
under the shingles of the projecting roof.

Ideally that gutter end should be closed and a down spout removing it
from the roof; failing that it needs to at a minimum have a diverter to
direct it away in a downward instead of upward direction. Cutting it
back several inches in doing that would also help.

2) A garden hose full blast is nothing in volume as compared to the
volume during even a moderate rain, what more a downpour. Your "test"
result isn't of much comfort you've solved the problem. Next hard rain
will probably find the same unless some corrective action is taken.

--

On Aug 18, 12:04*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Aug 18, 10:40*am, ransley wrote:



On Aug 18, 9:17*am, Mikepier wrote:

Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon *2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem.
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
*My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

I see caulk that is probably there because of leaks, there should be a
metal valley instead of just shingles up the valley.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but at the
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

The caulk just gets in the way of the water flow - it's more likely to
cause a leak than stop one. If the valley didn't leak, there wouldn't
be caulk.

R

On Aug 18, 12:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:04*pm, Mikepier wrote:





On Aug 18, 10:40*am, ransley wrote:

On Aug 18, 9:17*am, Mikepier wrote:

Last week we had 2 thunderstorms in the afternoon *2 days in a row. On
each day there were 2 seperate roof leaks in 2 different locations. I
never had leaks before so this was kind of a surprise.
I went into the attic immediately each time and I noticed where the
leak was coming from. Fortunately I have wood slats and not plywood,
so the leak could not have traveled as far.
I narrowed it down to where 2 roofs meet ( there is a section on each
side of the house).
I put captions on the pics. I could not find any holes or anything
that caught my eye. One thing that did was that the gutter was pitched
up to a point that it pushes up the shingle at the edge, causing water
to pool on the shingle. So I lowered it down and ran a hose for a good
5 minutes and did not notice any leaks. I hope this was the problem..
These were torrential downpours so maybe this was "the perfect storm"
and just a fluke.
*My question is is it ok for the gutter to pitch toward the roof so
the shingles are pitched more downward.Also is it worth it for me to
call a roofer or are there no guarantees he will find the leak.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikerock92/RoofingProblem

I see caulk that is probably there because of leaks, there should be a
metal valley instead of just shingles up the valley.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but at the
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

The caulk just gets in the way of the water flow - it's more likely to
cause a leak than stop one. *If the valley didn't leak, there wouldn't
be caulk.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So then its not normal for the caulk to be on the valley? Apparantly
an attempt to fix a problem?

On Aug 18, 9:01*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:04*pm, Mikepier wrote:

There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but at the
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

The caulk just gets in the way of the water flow - it's more likely to
cause a leak than stop one. *If the valley didn't leak, there wouldn't
be caulk.

So then its not normal for the caulk to be on the valley? Apparantly
an attempt to fix a problem?

It's not normal. It's a huge red flag. No one would do that unless
they had a leak and they had no clue as to how to locate the leak.
It's a bad idea to have clueless people on your roof for any reason.

When you see lots of roofing cement and caulking on chimney flashing
and around valleys you know you have a hack on your hands.

Hose technique in locating a leak is key. It requires two people.
You have to start at the bottom and flood the lowest area in
question. Use a regular hose stream, not a jet setting. Angle the
stream up under the shingle a bit to approximate wind driven rain.
Work on an area for five or ten minutes to make sure it's thoroughly
soaked. If you do it after a rain it will take less time to find the
leak. Work your way up the roof doing that. It might take an hour
to work your way up a twenty foot valley. Since you already know the
approximate location you can use a smaller hose stream and concentrate
in that area.

I would definitely consider redoing the valley. At the very least you
have to replace the shingles messed up with the caulk. While I was in
the area I'd probably pull the old valley flashing and install Ice &
Water Shield then a half closed valley (aka half woven).
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/l...ing/valley.htm

R

RicodJour wrote in
:

On Aug 18, 9:01*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:18*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 18, 12:04*pm, Mikepier wrote:

There is flashing under the caulk. Hard to tell in the pics but
at th
e
end of the valley underneath there is flashing.

The caulk just gets in the way of the water flow - it's more likely
to cause a leak than stop one. *If the valley didn't leak, there
wouldn'
t
be caulk.

So then its not normal for the caulk to be on the valley? Apparantly
an attempt to fix a problem?

It's not normal. It's a huge red flag. No one would do that unless
they had a leak and they had no clue as to how to locate the leak.
It's a bad idea to have clueless people on your roof for any reason.

When you see lots of roofing cement and caulking on chimney flashing
and around valleys you know you have a hack on your hands.

Hose technique in locating a leak is key. It requires two people.
You have to start at the bottom and flood the lowest area in
question. Use a regular hose stream, not a jet setting. Angle the
stream up under the shingle a bit to approximate wind driven rain.
Work on an area for five or ten minutes to make sure it's thoroughly
soaked. If you do it after a rain it will take less time to find the
leak. Work your way up the roof doing that. It might take an hour
to work your way up a twenty foot valley. Since you already know the
approximate location you can use a smaller hose stream and concentrate
in that area.

I would definitely consider redoing the valley. At the very least you
have to replace the shingles messed up with the caulk. While I was in
the area I'd probably pull the old valley flashing and install Ice &
Water Shield then a half closed valley (aka half woven).
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/l...ing/valley.htm

R


Just some further info building for Mikepier on your suggestion.

Assuming by half closed valley (aka half woven) and what link you
provided calls a closed valley, you mean what I learned as a closed-cut
valley...

I did 3 of these valleys on a house in the northeast 50mi from Canada.
Lots of ice and snow. Never done these before. No leaks. I did lots of
reading but my bible turned out to be Roofing with Asphalt Shingles, Mike
Guertin, Taunton press. Bookstores have it.

http://store.taunton.com/onlinestore...halt-shingles-
mike-guertin-070602.html

Ice and water shield (aka WSU): Grace is more expensive. But when you
have a piece of it in one hand and a piece of another brand in the other
you see why. For all the work you're doing, you'll want the Grace. Make
sure at the bottom of the valley the WSU goes OVER the metal drip edge.

Follow the advice diligently abut no nails within x inches of the valley.
Often written as 6". Guertin recommends 8".

Pay attention to determining which roof plane will be laid up on to the
other plane decking and which will be cut back from the valley center.
You need to determine which plane sheds the most water.

- but...Guertin recommends that the first row of shingles be woven to
shed water better.

Pay attention to part about no shingle butt joints within x inches of the
valley center. This is a lot easier with architectural shingles since
there's not tab spacing to worry about.

Note about clipping corners (dubbing) on some of the valley shingles.
Simple thing. Some claim it's critical.

The edge of the cut plane MUST be sealed with roofing cement, or better
yet polyurethane IMHO, to the shingles on the first plane they rest on.
Also, the edges that overlap on the same cut plane should be sealed. You
have to remember that in a downpour/wind driven rain, a lot of water will
be driven into this area. Just think as you are doing it that if you were
to take a garden hose and shoot it into this area with force, is there a
chance water could get under?

The one thing I noted in that link is that they appear to say to cut the
2nd plane at the valley centerline. From just about every source I've
read, including Guertin, they say to cut it back about 2".

It looks as if in order to correct this, I would have to do a complete
ripout and start from scratch, which I'm not ready to do yet. The rest
of the roof is fine , its just these 2 problem areas. Maybe what I'll
do for the time being is buy one of those leak diverters and route the
hose into a nearby drain. Like I said, this is the first time it
started leaking. I know it sounds like a band-aid solution, but at
least I can contain the leak until I'm ready to re-roof.

Mikepier wrote in news:16e1bf6e-0068-455b-b52e-
:

It looks as if in order to correct this, I would have to do a complete
ripout and start from scratch, which I'm not ready to do yet. The rest
of the roof is fine , its just these 2 problem areas. Maybe what I'll
do for the time being is buy one of those leak diverters and route the
hose into a nearby drain. Like I said, this is the first time it
started leaking. I know it sounds like a band-aid solution, but at
least I can contain the leak until I'm ready to re-roof.

Sorry to scare ya off Mike. It's just that that's the way to do it right.
Do what you have to based on your resourses now available.

Well noted Red Green philisophy: It's only temporary, unless it works.