On Aug 17, 2:18*pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. *On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. *Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Googling 'paver patterns' returns a lot of hits, but any pattern is
based on the size(s) of the particular paver(s). I don't particularly
like the colors in this one, but it gives you the idea of what adding
an additional size of paver can do for a layout.

http://www.hildebrand-construction.c.../patio_hc1.JPG

R

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:18:28 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Steve

Here's one with a radiating circular pattern (DAGS).

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-design.com/pavers.html

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-desi...r_circular.jpg

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Steve

--
"...the man who really counts in the world is the doer, not the mere
critic-the man who actually does the work, even if roughly and imperfectly,
not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
Theodore Roosevelt 1891

On Aug 17, 1:52�pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:18:28 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. �On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. �Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Steve

Here's one with a radiating circular pattern (DAGS).

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-design.com/pavers.html

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-desi...r_circular.jpg

gee yesterday I walked over a LOT of paver sidewalks, most having
problems from heaving, low spots, and pavers moving apart. I thought
it how sad people spent big bucks putting them in, just to have them
look bad some years later.

I was door knocking for a candidate in a nice neighborhood, geez lots
of homes are needing repairs.

there were enough trip hazard sidewalks to keep a army of lawyers busy
for a lifetime

I sold a home a few years ago, and remember well the hassles with home
inspectors, most of these homes wouldnt be insurable if their
homeowners were aware of the conditions.

many of the worst were pavers. enjoy what you choose, but I wouldnt
choose pavers.

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. On some of the fields,
I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Totally outside the building trades . . .
1. Scientists call filling space with uniform shapes "tiling."
The current world expert is a Brit. called Roger Penrose.
2. The world expert on architectural and printing layour is
Edward Tufte, see http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/
You may find unusual ideas at either source.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:20:48 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Aug 17, 2:18*pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. *On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. *Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Googling 'paver patterns' returns a lot of hits, but any pattern is
based on the size(s) of the particular paver(s). I don't particularly
like the colors in this one, but it gives you the idea of what adding
an additional size of paver can do for a layout.

http://www.hildebrand-construction.c.../patio_hc1.JPG

R

Beautiful pattern! I used 6, 8, and 12 inch tiles for a pattern on a
sidewalk. Pattern from a photo on vacation.

On 8/17/2008 12:27 PM Don Phillipson spake thus:

Totally outside the building trades . . .

[...]

2. The world expert on architectural and printing layour is
Edward Tufte, see http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/
You may find unusual ideas at either source.

I have both his /The Visual Display of Quantitative Information/ and
/Envisioning Information/. Both essential, seminal, fundamental and
necessary books for anyone dealing with graphic design, information
dissemination, or even, as you suggest, architectural design.


--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"

- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".

On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:30:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 17, 1:52?pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:18:28 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. ?On some of the fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is so
common. ?Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are shown?

Steve

Here's one with a radiating circular pattern (DAGS).

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-design.com/pavers.html

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-desi...r_circular.jpg

gee yesterday I walked over a LOT of paver sidewalks, most having
problems from heaving, low spots, and pavers moving apart. I thought
it how sad people spent big bucks putting them in, just to have them
look bad some years later.

I was door knocking for a candidate in a nice neighborhood, geez lots
of homes are needing repairs.

there were enough trip hazard sidewalks to keep a army of lawyers busy
for a lifetime

I sold a home a few years ago, and remember well the hassles with home
inspectors, most of these homes wouldnt be insurable if their
homeowners were aware of the conditions.

many of the worst were pavers. enjoy what you choose, but I wouldnt
choose pavers.

Use them in the desert. No serious heave. or any! I'm about to put
down 300 sf of flag stone (limestone) by the pool. Given my desert
soiled/packed for years I can get by.

On Aug 17, 2:30*pm, " wrote:

many of the worst were pavers. enjoy what you choose, but I wouldnt
choose pavers.

As in everything else in construction it's all in the preparation and
details. The DIY shows are the worst - throw down an inch of sand and
start laying pavers. Yeah, right.

R

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:30:28 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 17, 1:52?pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:18:28 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:

I'm getting ready to do about 2,000 sf of pavers. ?On some of the
fields, I
want unique designs rather than the herringbone or basket weave that is
so
common. ?Does anyone know of sites where unusual paver patterns are
shown?

Steve

Here's one with a radiating circular pattern (DAGS).

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-design.com/pavers.html

http://www.the-art-of-landscape-desi...r_circular.jpg

gee yesterday I walked over a LOT of paver sidewalks, most having
problems from heaving, low spots, and pavers moving apart. I thought
it how sad people spent big bucks putting them in, just to have them
look bad some years later.

I was door knocking for a candidate in a nice neighborhood, geez lots
of homes are needing repairs.

there were enough trip hazard sidewalks to keep a army of lawyers busy
for a lifetime

I sold a home a few years ago, and remember well the hassles with home
inspectors, most of these homes wouldnt be insurable if their
homeowners were aware of the conditions.

many of the worst were pavers. enjoy what you choose, but I wouldnt
choose pavers.

Use them in the desert. No serious heave. or any! I'm about to put
down 300 sf of flag stone (limestone) by the pool. Given my desert
soiled/packed for years I can get by.

Same here in the desert. We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. Looks exactly the same. BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they laid
the first brick. I think that's the trick. If you live in a place that has
frost heave, all bets are off. A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Steve

On Aug 17, 9:01*pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

Same here in the desert. *We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. *Looks exactly the same. *BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they laid
the first brick. *I think that's the trick. *If you live in a place that has
frost heave, all bets are off. *A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

R

On Aug 17, 10:29�pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:01�pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:



Same here in the desert. �We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. �Looks exactly the same. �BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they laid
the first brick. �I think that's the trick. �If you live in a place that has
frost heave, all bets are off. �A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

R

yeah and they still move around, no matter how well you try

wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 10:29?pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Aug 17, 9:01?pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:



Same here in the desert. ?We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas
about
three years ago. ?Looks exactly the same. ?BUT, those guys were out
there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they
laid
the first brick. ?I think that's the trick. ?If you live in a place that
has
frost heave, all bets are off. ?A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

R

yeah and they still move around, no matter how well you try

Well, not really, or not necessarily. As long as the project is properly
designed and constructed they should last about as long as anything else
with little or no maintenance. As others have said the problem generally is
people trying to cheap out on the job, Some good info on installation can
be found here; http://westconprecast.com/pdf/westcon_pavers.pdf

On Aug 17, 11:58�pm, "Doug Brown" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 17, 10:29?pm, RicodJour wrote:





On Aug 17, 9:01?pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

Same here in the desert. ?We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas
about
three years ago. ?Looks exactly the same. ?BUT, those guys were out
there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they
laid
the first brick. ?I think that's the trick. ?If you live in a place that
has
frost heave, all bets are off. ?A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

R

yeah and they still move around, no matter how well you try

Well, not really, or not necessarily. �As long as the project is properly
designed and constructed they should last about as long as anything else
with little or no maintenance. �As others have said the problem generally is
people trying to cheap out on the job, �Some good info on installation can
be found here; �http://westconprecast.com/pdf/westcon_pavers.pdf- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

a nearby neighbor spent 15 grand on his driveway, everyone watched the
week project with tons of base work. about 10 years ago

today his driveway looks bad, he is talking of having it redone....

in the old days brick streets were laid on concrete with a good base.

nothing holds up forever

walls are the same way, the best wall is one you never built

On Aug 18, 11:30*am, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message
On Aug 17, 9:01 pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:


Same here in the desert. We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. Looks exactly the same. BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they
laid
the first brick. I think that's the trick. If you live in a place that has
frost heave, all bets are off. A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.


Again, a lot of it is in the prep work.

Yep, most of it. The pavers go down pretty quickly.

R

On Aug 18, 7:52*am, " wrote:

a nearby neighbor spent 15 grand on his driveway, everyone watched the
week project with tons of base work. about 10 years ago

today his driveway looks bad, he is talking of having it redone....

It doesn't matter how much is spent, it matters what is done. If the
contractor chooses what he thinks is the "best" way of doing it, and
the contractor doesn't understand soils and drainage, then it's doomed
anyway.

The correct method in a particular situation may require a lot of work
and expense that will be buried. It might not make sense to use
pavers if it requires going to extraordinary lengths to make the
installation last.

in the old days brick streets were laid on concrete with a good base.

Not always. Cobbles and bricks were often laid the same way they are
often set today. Remove topsoil and organics, add and compact graded
gravel and sand, set the brick/cobble.

If you've ever seen the miles of fan-pattern cobbles in European
streets that are still in use you'll understand that they can hold up
to traffic. They're also easy, but not necessarily cheap, to repair.
Labor intensive to repair, but when they repair is complete it's
virtually invisible, doesn't leave additional seams (points of
weakness) like repairs in asphalt and concrete, and can immediately be
opened for traffic.

nothing holds up forever

Should it?

walls are the same way, the best wall is one you never built

I have no idea what you mean by that.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 9:01 pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

Same here in the desert. We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. Looks exactly the same. BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they
laid
the first brick. I think that's the trick. If you live in a place that has
frost heave, all bets are off. A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

R

Again, a lot of it is in the prep work.

Steve

"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
news

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Aug 17, 9:01 pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:

Same here in the desert. We had quite a bit installed in Las Vegas about
three years ago. Looks exactly the same. BUT, those guys were out there
with a water filled roller packing the heck out of the sand before they
laid
the first brick. I think that's the trick. If you live in a place that
has
frost heave, all bets are off. A lot of it is doing it right the first
time.

Up North we use crushed rock as the setting bed and use a plate
compactor to consolidate the substrate, then lay a thin layer of sand
for setting the pavers.

In this area of the north, we do the same thing, except we skip the thin
layer of sand because the ants insist on mining it from under the bricks and
dumping it on the top. Instead we use limestone screenings, the fine dust
and grit that results when they sift it out of washed crushed limestone. It
doesn't stop the ants but deters their activity because the screenings pack
solid and set into a soft "concrete" layer that is hard to dig into.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:05:54 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

In this area of the north, we do the same thing, except we skip the thin
layer of sand because the ants insist on mining it from under the bricks and
dumping it on the top. Instead we use limestone screenings, the fine dust
and grit that results when they sift it out of washed crushed limestone. It
doesn't stop the ants but deters their activity because the screenings pack
solid and set into a soft "concrete" layer that is hard to dig into.

Wouldn't granite dust compact better? Just something I read. Wet it
and pack it, repeat, so it becomes almost like a cement. Prevents pest
and weeds...

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:05:54 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

In this area of the north, we do the same thing, except we skip the thin
layer of sand because the ants insist on mining it from under the bricks
and
dumping it on the top. Instead we use limestone screenings, the fine dust
and grit that results when they sift it out of washed crushed limestone.
It
doesn't stop the ants but deters their activity because the screenings
pack
solid and set into a soft "concrete" layer that is hard to dig into.

Wouldn't granite dust compact better? Just something I read. Wet it
and pack it, repeat, so it becomes almost like a cement. Prevents pest
and weeds...

Possibly, but we don't have granite dust probably because we don't have much
granite available in this area, the local rock is limestone, so we use
limestone screenings which is mostly dust and it does compact almost like
cement.

On Aug 18, 11:23*pm, "EXT" wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message

Wouldn't *granite dust compact better? Just something I read. Wet it
and pack it, repeat, so it becomes almost like a cement. Prevents pest
and weeds...

Possibly, but we don't have granite dust probably because we don't have much
granite available in this area, the local rock is limestone, so we use
limestone screenings which is mostly dust and it does compact almost like
cement.

Whether sand or dust you want sharp edges/corners. Masonry sand is
sharp sand. It locks together when compacted. Beach sand has the
edges knocked off and moves around a lot. You can compact it, but
water will cause it to flow. Don't ever build your house with shallow
foundations on a beach.

R