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Default Subpanel box wiring

On 2008-08-01, Uncle Monster wrote:

I don't believe a separate ground rod is called for or
required. Common practice for sub-panel wiring is to float the
neutral and use the ground at the main disconnect grounding point
where it is connected to a ground rod and usually the cold water
pipe also.


Every structure requires a ground rod (electrode). So since this
subpanel is in a separate structure, it gets its own ground rod, which
is connected to the ground bar on the subpanel.

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Default Subpanel box wiring

Wayne Whitney wrote:

On 2008-08-01, Uncle Monster wrote:

I don't believe a separate ground rod is called for or
required. Common practice for sub-panel wiring is to float the
neutral and use the ground at the main disconnect grounding point
where it is connected to a ground rod and usually the cold water
pipe also.


Every structure requires a ground rod (electrode). So since this
subpanel is in a separate structure, it gets its own ground rod, which
is connected to the ground bar on the subpanel.


Are you sure about this? It's my understanding that a separate structure may
use a separate ground (but is not required to) if and only if there is no other
conductive path between the buildings, such as a phone line.
-- Doug
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Default Subpanel box wiring

On 2008-08-01, Douglas Johnson wrote:

Are you sure about this? It's my understanding that a separate
structure may use a separate ground (but is not required to) if and
only if there is no other conductive path between the buildings,
such as a phone line.


Under the National Electric Code (NEC), every building gets a ground
rod (electrode) which is appropriately connected at the service/feeder
entrance.

If this building is served by a utility with 240V/120V, they provide
only 3 wires (two hots and a neutral), and the grounding electrode is
connected to the service neutral at the service entrance. Thereafter,
within that building, the ground and neutral are kept separate.

If the building is served by a feeder from another building, then a
240V/120V feeder should be 4 wires--two hots, a neutral, and a ground.
The neutral and ground are kept separate at the feeder entrance. The
building's grounding electrode is connected to the ground bar in this
feeder entrance.

Under the 2005 NEC (and earlier), there is an exception to this
requirement for a 4 wire feeder--if there is no other conductive path
between the buildings (such as a phone line, water pipe, metallic gas
pipe, etc.), then the ground wire and neutral in the feeder may be
combined, allowing a 3 wire feeder. In this case, at the feeder
entrance the grounding electrode is connected to the feeder
neutral/ground. Thereafter, within the building, the ground and
neutral are kept separate.

However, the 2008 NEC has done away with this provision, and all
240V/120V feeders will need to be 4 wires. 4 wire feeders are
superior, so even if you are under the 2005 NEC a 4 wire feeder is
recommended. In fact, the electrical distribution system would
arguably be safer if the utility provided a 4 wire feeder instead of a
3 wire feeder. But that is another matter.

Cheers, Wayne
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On Aug 1, 12:12*pm, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-01, Uncle Monster wrote:


I don't believe a separate ground rod is called for or
required. Common practice for sub-panel wiring is to float the
neutral and use the ground at the main disconnect grounding point
where it is connected to a ground rod and usually the cold water
pipe also.


Every structure requires a ground rod (electrode). *So since this
subpanel is in a separate structure, it gets its own ground rod, which
is connected to the ground bar on the subpanel.


Are you sure about this? *It's my understanding that a separate structure may
use a separate ground (but is not required to) if and only if there is no other
conductive path between the buildings, such as a phone line.
-- Doug


Ok, so I spoke to the inspector today and we talked about jumping the
phases and the grounding rod issue. He suggested that I put all my
breakers
on one phase. He said I could jumper them together, but that the
connectors
for the hot leads are not designed to hold two wires. He said that if
I want to
jumper them I would have to use a pigtail and wire cap. But he
strongly
suggested that I use only one phase. So I went and got a new box that
has
three breaker positions for each phase, which is perfect. It has a
convenient
screw spot in the neutral bar for bonding, so I will ask the inspector
when he
comes if I need to bond the neutral. I also bought the extra ground
bar.

So on the ground rod-- he said I probably didn't need a ground rod,
that it is
debatable, but if it were his shed, he'd do the ground rod. The
reason is that
he would use one is because if there is ever a power surge that
originates from
the shed (IE lightning) that the #10 wire wouldn't be able to carry
much. It has
to carry the surge all the way back to the ground rod at the house.
If there is
a ground rod at the shed then it won't have to go all the way back to
the house.

I pointed out to him that if the ground rod is there and is causing RF
problems
or tripping my GFCIs that all I have to do is disconnect it.

I didn't get a chance to ask about the floating neutral, sorry. He
was in a hurry,
so I got cut short.

I'll post some pics tonight.

Oh, also, about the loads I'm going to have on this: I have one
circuit that
will be running some occasional woodworking tools, like bandsaw, chop
saw,
drill press, etc. Occasionally I might run a router on it, but I can
do that up at
the garage if it trips breakers. It would be rare, at any rate. I
have another circuit
that will run some lights-- two flourescent lights over my work bench,
a small ceiling
fan with light and one light outside over the door. The final circuit
only has two
recepticles-- one for a small, window air conditioner and maybe a dorm
fridge on
the other.

Thanks for all the great advice on this!!!

John

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Default Subpanel box wiring

On 2008-08-01, wrote:

It has a convenient screw spot in the neutral bar for bonding, so I
will ask the inspector when he comes if I need to bond the neutral.
I also bought the extra ground bar.


You do not bond the neutral, since you are providing an equipment
grounding conductor in your feeder. The neutral and EGC should be
kept separate like a regular subpanel.

So on the ground rod-- he said I probably didn't need a ground rod,
that it is debatable,


A ground rod is required, there's no debate. :-) See gfretwell's post
for the NEC citation.

I pointed out to him that if the ground rod is there and is causing
RF problems or tripping my GFCIs that all I have to do is disconnect
it.


Ground rods don't cause RF problems and don't cause GFCIs to trip.
Whenever a GFCI trips, it is due to a sufficiently large (5 ma)
current imbalance in its current sensing transformer. Almost always
this is due to a problem with the equipment plugged in. Very rarely
the imbalance is a phantom caused by RF interference from something
like a hand-held walkie-talkie. In that case a better GFCI should be
found that is more resilient to electrical noise.

Oh, also, about the loads I'm going to have on this: I have one
circuit that will be running some occasional woodworking tools, like
bandsaw, chop saw, drill press, etc. Occasionally I might run a
router on it, but I can do that up at the garage if it trips
breakers. It would be rare, at any rate. I have another circuit
that will run some lights-- two flourescent lights over my work
bench, a small ceiling fan with light and one light outside over the
door. The final circuit only has two recepticles-- one for a small,
window air conditioner and maybe a dorm fridge on the other.


Seems like if your air conditioner and fridge come on at the same
time, and you are running your table saw, you may exceed 30 amps and
trip your 120V feeder breaker. You should check the nameplate ratings
for those items and add them up.

Cheers, Wayne




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On Aug 1, 2:03*pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-01, wrote:

It has a convenient screw spot in the neutral bar for bonding, so I
will ask the inspector when he comes if I need to bond the neutral.
I also bought the extra ground bar.


You do not bond the neutral, since you are providing an equipment
grounding conductor in your feeder. *The neutral and EGC should be
kept separate like a regular subpanel.


Noted.

So on the ground rod-- he said I probably didn't need a ground rod,
that it is debatable,


A ground rod is required, there's no debate. *:-) See gfretwell's post
for the NEC citation.


Ok. But I was doing one, anyway, so you'll get no debate from me
on it! I would rather be over-prepared for whatever the inspector
wants,
so if that means ground rod, then a ground rod it will get.


...In that case a better GFCI should be found that is more resilient
to electrical noise.


Noted.

Seems like if your air conditioner and fridge come on at the same
time, and you are running your table saw, you may exceed 30 amps and
trip your 120V feeder breaker. *You should check the nameplate ratings
for those items and add them up.


Will do. If it turns out I am right at the edge of the system's
capacity
then I can do without some things like the A/C or the fridge and
still
be perfectly happy with what I have.

Thanks!

John
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wrote in message
...
On Aug 1, 12:12 pm, Douglas Johnson wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-01, Uncle Monster wrote:


I don't believe a separate ground rod is called for or
required. Common practice for sub-panel wiring is to float the
neutral and use the ground at the main disconnect grounding point
where it is connected to a ground rod and usually the cold water
pipe also.


Every structure requires a ground rod (electrode). So since this
subpanel is in a separate structure, it gets its own ground rod, which
is connected to the ground bar on the subpanel.


Are you sure about this? It's my understanding that a separate structure
may
use a separate ground (but is not required to) if and only if there is no
other
conductive path between the buildings, such as a phone line.
-- Doug


Ok, so I spoke to the inspector today and we talked about jumping the
phases and the grounding rod issue. He suggested that I put all my
breakers
on one phase. He said I could jumper them together, but that the
connectors
for the hot leads are not designed to hold two wires. He said that if
I want to
jumper them I would have to use a pigtail and wire cap. But he
strongly
suggested that I use only one phase. So I went and got a new box that
has
three breaker positions for each phase, which is perfect. It has a
convenient
screw spot in the neutral bar for bonding, so I will ask the inspector
when he
comes if I need to bond the neutral. I also bought the extra ground
bar.

So on the ground rod-- he said I probably didn't need a ground rod,
that it is
debatable, but if it were his shed, he'd do the ground rod. The
reason is that
he would use one is because if there is ever a power surge that
originates from
the shed (IE lightning) that the #10 wire wouldn't be able to carry
much. It has
to carry the surge all the way back to the ground rod at the house.
If there is
a ground rod at the shed then it won't have to go all the way back to
the house.

I pointed out to him that if the ground rod is there and is causing RF
problems
or tripping my GFCIs that all I have to do is disconnect it.

I didn't get a chance to ask about the floating neutral, sorry. He
was in a hurry,
so I got cut short.

I'll post some pics tonight.

Oh, also, about the loads I'm going to have on this: I have one
circuit that
will be running some occasional woodworking tools, like bandsaw, chop
saw,
drill press, etc. Occasionally I might run a router on it, but I can
do that up at
the garage if it trips breakers. It would be rare, at any rate. I
have another circuit
that will run some lights-- two flourescent lights over my work bench,
a small ceiling
fan with light and one light outside over the door. The final circuit
only has two
recepticles-- one for a small, window air conditioner and maybe a dorm
fridge on
the other.

Thanks for all the great advice on this!!!

John

It sounds like NEC is not this inspector's strong suit


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It sounds like NEC is not this inspector's strong suit- Hide quoted text -


Honestly, I'll have to agree. I had already spoken to him once before
and had asked how deep I needed to bury my wire. He said something
like 6" for conduit and 18" for UF. I was pretty sure that wasn't
right, but I didn't know for sure until later. I think it was just a
slip on his part. Like maybe he was distracted or something... But
he's been there for a while, so I don't know what to think.

John
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Ok, I apologize for being so slow on this, but I've finally got
photos:

http://tinyurl.com/65s22f

Saturday I installed the conduit on the back of the house. I've got
the UF trench running underneath my screened-in porch, ending next to
the crawlspace door. It comes up the wall from a riser of 3/4" PVC
and into a 4x4 box. The 4x4 is where I connect the UF to the THHN (or
whatever it is... I can never remember), which runs in the conduit
across to my main breaker box. I've got the ground and neutral wires
connected in my home breaker box, but the black is wire-capped and
hanging loose. I've not yet gotten a breaker for it.

I've installed the ground pole near the shed and connected it to the
ground bar in the shed's breaker box. I haven't bonded the neutral to
the box. I don't think it is called for in this situation, but I left
the neutral bonding screw in a plastic bag in the box in case the
inspector says I need it. All connections are made in the shed and I
think I am ready for rough-in inspection. I'm planning to clean up a
little and call inspections on Tuesday.

Enjoy the pics and thanks!

John
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...

Ok, I apologize for being so slow on this, but I've finally got
photos:

http://tinyurl.com/65s22f

Saturday I installed the conduit on the back of the house. I've got
the UF trench running underneath my screened-in porch, ending next to
the crawlspace door. It comes up the wall from a riser of 3/4" PVC
and into a 4x4 box. The 4x4 is where I connect the UF to the THHN (or
whatever it is... I can never remember), which runs in the conduit
across to my main breaker box. I've got the ground and neutral wires
connected in my home breaker box, but the black is wire-capped and
hanging loose. I've not yet gotten a breaker for it.

I've installed the ground pole near the shed and connected it to the
ground bar in the shed's breaker box. I haven't bonded the neutral to
the box. I don't think it is called for in this situation, but I left
the neutral bonding screw in a plastic bag in the box in case the
inspector says I need it. All connections are made in the shed and I
think I am ready for rough-in inspection. I'm planning to clean up a
little and call inspections on Tuesday.

Enjoy the pics and thanks!



Thanks for sharing. Not too bad for an amateur. Everything looks neat.
Generally you don't leave the cable jacket on in the electrical panel more
than 1/4" or so. Usually a different clamp on the ground rod is used for
direct burial. We call them an acorn style ground rod clamp. The type that
you used is for water pipes. The ground wires in the switch box are kind of
short and not spliced properly. There are green wire connectors available
with a hole in the them for making a splice on the grounds and bringing one
pigtail out through the hole. Additional grounding pigtails come out just
like any other on the bottom of the connector. I noticed that you didn't
splice the #10 hot wire so that you can feed the other half of the panel.
Do you have the metal ceiling box grounded with a green 10/32 screw? All of
your grounds should be spliced correctly for rough inspection.



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wrote in message
...

Ok, I apologize for being so slow on this, but I've finally got
photos:

http://tinyurl.com/65s22f

Saturday I installed the conduit on the back of the house. I've got
the UF trench running underneath my screened-in porch, ending next to
the crawlspace door. It comes up the wall from a riser of 3/4" PVC
and into a 4x4 box. The 4x4 is where I connect the UF to the THHN (or
whatever it is... I can never remember), which runs in the conduit
across to my main breaker box. I've got the ground and neutral wires
connected in my home breaker box, but the black is wire-capped and
hanging loose. I've not yet gotten a breaker for it.

I've installed the ground pole near the shed and connected it to the
ground bar in the shed's breaker box. I haven't bonded the neutral to
the box. I don't think it is called for in this situation, but I left
the neutral bonding screw in a plastic bag in the box in case the
inspector says I need it. All connections are made in the shed and I
think I am ready for rough-in inspection. I'm planning to clean up a
little and call inspections on Tuesday.

Enjoy the pics and thanks!

John


Very lovely! You definitely don't use the bonding screw. The one thing I see
is that you cut your grounding conductors in the switch box to short. They
need to be attached to the switches


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On Aug 3, 10:41*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
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... *I noticed that you didn't splice the #10 hot wire so that you can
feed the other half of the panel.


Correct-- the other half of the panel is dead.

Do you have the metal ceiling box grounded with a green
10/32 screw?


No, I was planning to do that when I installed the fixture, but
it is easy enough to add.

*All of
your grounds should be spliced correctly for rough inspection.


All of the grounds are spliced using the crimp connectors.

I am surprised that the crimp-style connectors would be
considered incorrect. I always thought them superior to
wire nuts. I would have used standard wire nuts except on
the advice of an experienced electrician.

Thanks for the tips!

John
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wrote in message
...
On Aug 3, 10:41 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

... I noticed that you didn't splice the #10 hot wire so that you can
feed the other half of the panel.


Correct-- the other half of the panel is dead.

Do you have the metal ceiling box grounded with a green
10/32 screw?


No, I was planning to do that when I installed the fixture, but
it is easy enough to add.

All of
your grounds should be spliced correctly for rough inspection.


All of the grounds are spliced using the crimp connectors.

I am surprised that the crimp-style connectors would be
considered incorrect. I always thought them superior to
wire nuts. I would have used standard wire nuts except on
the advice of an experienced electrician.

Thanks for the tips!

John


The crimp style connectors are acceptable, I didn't see them in the photos.
To me the wires just looked as though they were twisted around each other.
The ground wires also looked a little short. Code calls for all conductors
to be long enough to extend at least three inches past the edge of the box.
Ground the metal box before you get your rough inspection as that is one of
the things the inspector will be looking for.

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On Aug 3, 10:41*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

Thanks for sharing. *Not too bad for an amateur. *Everything looks neat.
Generally you don't leave the cable jacket on in the electrical panel more
than 1/4" or so. *Usually a different clamp on the ground rod is used for
direct burial. *We call them an acorn style ground rod clamp. The type that
you used is for water pipes. *The ground wires in the switch box are kind of
short and not spliced properly. *There are green wire connectors available
with a hole in the them for making a splice on the grounds and bringing one
pigtail out through the hole. *Additional grounding pigtails come out just
like any other on the bottom of the connector. *I noticed that you didn't
splice the #10 hot wire so that you can feed the other half of the panel.
Do you have the metal ceiling box grounded with a green 10/32 screw? *All of
your grounds should be spliced correctly for rough inspection.


Thanks for the tips. I guess I should add that not only am I an
amature, but this is my first time doing this. I've had a mentor that
has done this many times helping me, though. He also helped me dig
the trench and run the final bit of conduit to the breaker box.

On the ground wires in the switch box, they are longer than they
look. They are pointed at the camera. But I find it surprising that
using the crimp connectors would be considered "improper" for the
ground wires. I used the crimp connectors to splice all of the
grounds on the advice of a fairly experianced electrician. They
strike me as being superior to wire nuts.

No, I didn't splice the two phases of the panel together as the
inspector said I would be fine just using one leg of the panel.

I didn't use the green ground screw on the ceiling light thinking that
I would wait until final, but, now that you mention it I believe that
would be a mistake.

Thanks,

John
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On Aug 4, 11:12*am, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-04, wrote:

I've installed the ground pole near the shed and connected it to the
ground bar in the shed's breaker box. *


The ground rod needs to be at least 8' in the ground, so if that is an
8' ground rod, it should be fully buried. *If it is a 10' ground rod,
then you are OK with part sticking up as you have.

Cheers, Wayne


Hi Wayne,

It is an 8' rod, but I've got it to where the top is now flush with
grade. I've dug out around it a little so I could attach the
connector and have not backfilled it so the inspector could see it.
So If I wanted to install a second rod, would I just jumper the
connection from the same ground wire?

John Grabowski:

The ground wires are a little longer than what they look in the
photo. They are pointing at the camera, so the look shorter. But
they may not be long enough to meet code, so I will check. I will
also install the ground screw this evening.

Thanks for all the help, fellas!

John
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On Aug 4, 11:49*am, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-04, wrote:

So If I wanted to install a second rod, would I just jumper the
connection from the same ground wire?


If you want to install a second rod, you can clamp the jumper to the
first rod or to the grounding electrode conductor (the ground wire
going from the first rod to the panel). *Be sure all the clamps you
use are rated for direct burial, for both the jumper and the grounding
electrode conductor.

BTW, if the rod is your only grounding electrode, you need to install
two. *[There is a provision for installing only one in the NEC, but it
requires a measurement of the effectiveness of the first rod that is
way more difficult to make than installing a second rod is.]

Cheers, Wayne


Ok, so if I were to install two and the first is 8', how long would
the second rod need to be to meet code? Just any combination that
adds up to over ten feet? I have a ton of rocks, so driving these
things into the ground is a real pain.

Thanks for that tip on the wire, Steve B.

John
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the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. be advised, 1/2" rods will not pass if
you're subject to inspection. Also, when using multiple rods, they need to
be at least SIX feet apart.

s

wrote in message
...

Ok, so if I were to install two and the first is 8', how long would
the second rod need to be to meet code? Just any combination that
adds up to over ten feet? I have a ton of rocks, so driving these
things into the ground is a real pain.

Thanks for that tip on the wire, Steve B.

John




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On Aug 4, 2:53*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. *be advised, 1/2" rods will not pass if
you're subject to inspection. *Also, when using multiple rods, they need to
be at least SIX feet apart.

s



OUCH, that hurts! I'm not sure what the rod diameter is in there
now. It was the only size rod that Home Depot carried, so I guess I
am outta luck if it is 1/2" diameter. I read on a site that quotes
NEC (not sure which revision) that said the minimum diameter was 1/2",
but it didn't talk about two electrodes at all.

John
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On Aug 4, 2:53*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"

wrote:
the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. *be advised, 1/2" rods will not pass if
you're subject to inspection. *Also, when using multiple rods, they need to
be at least SIX feet apart.


I just measured the rod I have in the ground and it is 1/2" diameter.
I am about 99.9% sure that is the only diameter they carry at H.
Depot. I guess I'll need to call the inspector about it to see what
the local code calls for.

John

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wrote in message
...
On Aug 4, 2:53 pm, "Steve Barker DLT"

wrote:
the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. be advised, 1/2" rods will not pass
if
you're subject to inspection. Also, when using multiple rods, they need
to
be at least SIX feet apart.


I just measured the rod I have in the ground and it is 1/2" diameter.
I am about 99.9% sure that is the only diameter they carry at H.
Depot. I guess I'll need to call the inspector about it to see what
the local code calls for.




I just looked at the photo of your ground rod again. The rod size appears
to be correct. Wait until the inspector sees it before you make any
changes. If you were to add a second rod the wire needs to be continuous
from the circuit breaker box through the first rod and ending at the second
rod. Code calls for the second rod to be at least six feet away from the
first, but sixteen feet or more is optimal.

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On Aug 4, 3:52*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Aug 4, 2:53 pm, "Steve Barker DLT"


wrote:
the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. be advised, 1/2" rods will not pass
if
you're subject to inspection. Also, when using multiple rods, they need
to
be at least SIX feet apart.


I just measured the rod I have in thegroundand it is 1/2" diameter.
I am about 99.9% sure that is the only diameter they carry at H.
Depot. *I guess I'll need to call the inspector about it to see what
the local code calls for.

I just looked at the photo of yourgroundrod again. *The rod size appears
to be correct. *Wait until the inspector sees it before you make any
changes. *If you were to add a second rod the wire needs to be continuous
from the circuit breaker box through the first rod and ending at the second
rod. *Code calls for the second rod to be at least six feet away from the
first, but sixteen feet or more is optimal.


LOL, ok 16' would be in my neighbor's bathroom! Just kidding. It
would be in some heavy woods, though. I'll just get the shed cleaned
up for the inspection and see what they say and report back.

Thanks!

John
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I guess this is the acorn connector mentioned earlier?

http://tinyurl.com/62tvmx

I saw some of these at Home Depot, but didn't realize that is what I
needed. I can swap that out when I do the ground on the light
fixture.

John


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NOT what the NEC says. but you the boss.

suit yourself

s


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 12:47:23 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

ACTUALLY, if your going to stick with the code..... the grounding
conductor should be all one piece and go from one rod to the next.



Not true, it only needs to be un spliced to the first electrode

From the handbook

http://esteroriverheights.com/electrical/ground.jpg



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wrote in message
...

I guess this is the acorn connector mentioned earlier?

http://tinyurl.com/62tvmx

I saw some of these at Home Depot, but didn't realize that is what I
needed. I can swap that out when I do the ground on the light
fixture.



Those are the ones normally used on ground rods. They are approved for
direct burial.

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On 2008-08-04, John Grabowski wrote:

If you were to add a second rod the wire needs to be continuous from
the circuit breaker box through the first rod and ending at the
second rod.


That's not actually true, as gfretwell posted. The "wire" only needs
to be continuous to the first electrode.

Cheers, Wayne
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On 2008-08-04, Steve Barker DLT wrote:

the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. be advised, 1/2" rods will not
pass if you're subject to inspection.


Actually, a ground rod can be only 1/2" in diameter, as long as it is
listed (by an NRTL, such as UL). So the OP should check the rod for a
listing mark.

Cheers, Wayne
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On Aug 4, 6:44*pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-08-04, Steve Barker DLT wrote:

the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. *be advised, 1/2" rods will not
pass if you're subject to inspection.


Actually, a ground rod can be only 1/2" in diameter, as long as it is
listed (by an NRTL, such as UL). *So the OP should check the rod for a
listing mark.

Cheers, Wayne


I stand corrected-- Home Depot does have 5/8" and 1/2" 8' grounding
rods. I checked when I picked up my acorn clamp. Didn't read about
the UL listing or I would have checked when I was there. All the
markings on the one I have are underground now.

John


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Not according to the nec.

s


"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2008-08-04, John Grabowski wrote:

If you were to add a second rod the wire needs to be continuous from
the circuit breaker box through the first rod and ending at the
second rod.


That's not actually true, as gfretwell posted. The "wire" only needs
to be continuous to the first electrode.

Cheers, Wayne



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Not according to the nec


s


"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message
...
On 2008-08-04, Steve Barker DLT wrote:

the same 8' x 5/8" rod is required. be advised, 1/2" rods will not
pass if you're subject to inspection.


Actually, a ground rod can be only 1/2" in diameter, as long as it is
listed (by an NRTL, such as UL). So the OP should check the rod for a
listing mark.

Cheers, Wayne



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look at 250.64(C) and get back with me.

s

wrote in message
...



Steve, you are confusing THE grounding electrode conductor which goes
to "any convenient electrode" unspliced.

250.26(F) To Electrode(s). A grounding electrode conductor shall be
permitted to be run to any convenient grounding electrode available in
the grounding electrode system or to one or more grounding
electrode(s) individually. The grounding electrode conductor shall be
sized for the largest grounding electrode conductor required among all
the electrodes connected to it.

Subsequent "bonding jumpers" between supplemental electrodes and be
made up with any listed connecting device as long as it remains
accessible.

250.68 Grounding Electrode Conductor and Bonding Jumper Connection to
Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Accessibility. The connection of a grounding electrode conductor
or bonding jumper to a grounding electrode shall be accessible.
.
Look at the picture again. That is from the NEC handbook



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On Aug 5, 12:03*am, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
look at 250.64(C) and get back with me.

s

wrote in message

...





Steve, you are confusing THE grounding electrode conductor which goes
to "any convenient electrode" unspliced.


250.26(F) To Electrode(s). A grounding electrode conductor shall be
permitted to be run to any convenient grounding electrode available in
the grounding electrode system or to one or more grounding
electrode(s) individually. The grounding electrode conductor shall be
sized for the largest grounding electrode conductor required among all
the electrodes connected to it.


Subsequent "bonding jumpers" between supplemental electrodes and be
made up with any listed connecting device as long as it remains
accessible.


250.68 Grounding Electrode Conductor and Bonding Jumper Connection to
Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Accessibility. The connection of a grounding electrode conductor
or bonding jumper to a grounding electrode shall be accessible.
.
Look at the picture again. That is from the NEC handbook- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -



I found an interesting article on it he

http://tinyurl.com/6ax6oc

If you skip to the section on splicing I think it addresses the topic
at hand. I might be way out in left field, too, I don't know. This
is all very new to me.

John


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OK then. it sounds like an area for easy misinterpretation.


s


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Aug 2008 23:03:54 -0500, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:

look at 250.64(C) and get back with me.

s


OK I'm back. The GEC is the conductor to the first "convenient"
electrode. The rest are bonding jumpers.
I already gave you the cites



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Well, I am pleased to report that I have passed my rough-in
inspection!!

Thanks to everyone that has helped... You've been a great resource.
Now its on to putting up the OSB and the final inspection!

John
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Even more good news on my inspections-- I passed the final inspection
the other day and got my CoO today!

The person that answered the phone at the inspections department was
curious as to why I would want a CoO for a shed, so I explained that
it was in case I needed to prove that it was up to code for an
insurance claim or if I sold the home.

The inspector for the final complimented my subpanel and seemed quite
impressed with the work.

I've put up some new photos of the nearly completed project:

http://tinyurl.com/6xqrxb

The only major piece remaining is that I plan to build a workbench
along the back wall. I left a gap in the baseboards for the bench.
Thanks again for all the advice!

John
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Wow. Kind of fancified for a shed. you gonna live out there or what?

nice job.


s

wrote in message
...
Even more good news on my inspections-- I passed the final inspection
the other day and got my CoO today!

The person that answered the phone at the inspections department was
curious as to why I would want a CoO for a shed, so I explained that
it was in case I needed to prove that it was up to code for an
insurance claim or if I sold the home.

The inspector for the final complimented my subpanel and seemed quite
impressed with the work.

I've put up some new photos of the nearly completed project:

http://tinyurl.com/6xqrxb

The only major piece remaining is that I plan to build a workbench
along the back wall. I left a gap in the baseboards for the bench.
Thanks again for all the advice!

John



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On Sep 5, 5:57*pm, "Steve Barker DLT"
wrote:
Wow. *Kind of fancified for a shed. *you gonna live out there or what?

nice job.

s


Hey thanks Steve! I may have to live in there if I keep working on it
like this... My wife might exile me to it.

Seriously, I plan to build guitars in it. I've got a workbench built
and have various saws and drills and such mounted on stands now. I've
also thought about putting in a futon, dorm fridge, microwave, big
screen TV... Run cable from the house...

John
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