The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

Dick

On Jun 24, 1:47�am, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

Dick

best to get multiple quotes and ask your neighbors, with similiar size
homes what they paid

were getting a new furnace with air this friday, $4350 bucks
installed, from a reputable company that has done 2 of my realtives
homes

2.5 ton 13 SEER A/C 70,000 BTU furnace.

Dick Adams wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Here in Texas you only pay tax on labor when the job is for a commercial
job. Who ever gave you a quote should be able to tell you what you need to
know.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

If the company can not tell you what you what to know, get another company
or asked the owner of the company for answers. They do not want to lose a
sales call because the salesman does not know the answers.

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

Most jobs will take 2 days. First day they remove the existing system and
start putting in the new system then the second day they finish up.

Dick

--
Moe Jones
http://www.MoeJones.info

Also in most areas they need a permit and they need to size stuff correctly.


"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

Dick

On Jun 24, 12:47*am, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

Dick

Most important is total bill and a quality installer. If any
insulation has been done or will be done, or being the old unit could
be oversized a heat load calculation is very important, get a permit
and have it inspected before you pay, inspectors do find contractors
making shortcuts.

On Jun 24, 1:47 am, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?


I'm going through the same thing. I filled out the form at Home
Depot. They sent out their local preferred contractor. The sales guy
eyeballed my old furnace and said I needed a 3 ton Trane heat pump.
Gave me a detailed estimate. It looked like this:

---------
New Heat Pump, Installed: $5842.00
---------

He glossed over all my requests for information on efficiency, BTU's,
etc. Kept telling me how much money I'd save every month. Gave me a
brochure with pictures of attractive people looking cool and
comfortable.

Out of general curiosity, I looked the unit up on eBay. $3000, buy-it-
now.

As for labor, he said they'd be in and out in 1 day. $2842 / 8 = $355/
hr.

"The Reverend Natural Light" wrote in message
...
On Jun 24, 1:47 am, (Dick Adams) wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?


I'm going through the same thing. I filled out the form at Home
Depot. They sent out their local preferred contractor. The sales guy
eyeballed my old furnace and said I needed a 3 ton Trane heat pump.
Gave me a detailed estimate. It looked like this:

---------
New Heat Pump, Installed: $5842.00
---------

He glossed over all my requests for information on efficiency, BTU's,
etc. Kept telling me how much money I'd save every month. Gave me a
brochure with pictures of attractive people looking cool and
comfortable.

Out of general curiosity, I looked the unit up on eBay. $3000, buy-it-
now.

As for labor, he said they'd be in and out in 1 day. $2842 / 8 = $355/
hr.



That's certainly comparing apples to apples. Not!

Does the Ebay price also include the fittings and tubing and the gas to
charge the system?

Maybe where you live the installer's employees will gladly pick up the
equipment and supplies on their own time. They are probably happy to
dispose of the old equipment in their off hours as well rather then be paid
to do it. A job like this will require two to three workers, but on TV it
only takes 10 minutes for a complete installation.

On Jun 24, 12:36*pm, The Reverend Natural Light
wrote:
On Jun 24, 1:47 am, (Dick Adams) wrote:

The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?

I'm going through the same thing. *I filled out the form at Home
Depot. *They sent out their local preferred contractor. *The sales guy
eyeballed my old furnace and said I needed a 3 ton Trane heat pump.
Gave me a detailed estimate. *It looked like this:

---------
New Heat Pump, Installed: * $5842.00
---------

He glossed over all my requests for information on efficiency, BTU's,
etc. *Kept telling me how much money I'd save every month. *Gave me a
brochure with pictures of attractive people looking cool and
comfortable.

Out of general curiosity, I looked the unit up on eBay. *$3000, buy-it-
now.

As for labor, he said they'd be in and out in 1 day. *$2842 / 8 = $355/
hr.

Buy it yourself and you have no warranty.

Dick Adams wrote:
The estimates I have for a new HVAC system are one-liners
- just cost, no breakdowm of material and labor.

First, there should be a breakdown because there is no
reason to pay sales tax on labor.

Second, where does one find the actual cost of an HVAC
system?

Finally, what is a rough estimate of labor hours to
remove an existing system and install a new system
presuming it's an outside/inside system?


Realistically, if you ask for the breakdown and force the issue, they'll
just make numbers to fit the total so you really will learn nothing useful.

Other than the occasional unit one may find as second-source or other on
a web source, afaik there is no HVAC equipment supplier that provides
dealer cost for their equipment.

About all one can do is, as others have suggested, is to compare quotes
for similarly rated equipment from various installers and try to follow
up on references as to who have been and have not been good to work with
and homeowners are satisfied w/ their systems and installations.

For labor, it's anything from a half-day for single-unit, everything in
the open, no new lines, etc., to as much as 2-3 days if need to pull new
lines that are in wall cavities, etc.

There are simply too many variables for anybody to provide any real
definitive answers remotely, unfortunately.

--

On Jun 24, 2:40 pm, ransley wrote:

Buy it yourself and you have no warranty.

They'll only give me a one year warranty. Yay.

Doesn't matter. I can't buy it anyways. R22 precharged. Even if I
could, the only gas I can get to fill it with comes from burritos.

On Jun 24, 2:09 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

Does the Ebay price also include the fittings and tubing and the gas to
charge the system?


The estimate actually listed "Flush existing lines". If someone
brought me a 39 year old car with a roached AC, I'd replace all the
lines. Must be why the warranty is only 1 year.

Maybe where you live the installer's employees will gladly pick up the
equipment and supplies on their own time. They are probably happy to
dispose of the old equipment in their off hours as well rather then be paid
to do it. A job like this will require two to three workers, but on TV it
only takes 10 minutes for a complete installation.

Their own time? They get almost 3,000 bucks!

And I really hope you're not defending them. It just smelled of what
you HVAC folks call a "hack".

Not like I know a thing about air conditioning, but I'd at least
expect the sales monkey to blow some sunshine up my ass and make me
feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

"The Reverend Natural Light" wrote in message
...
On Jun 24, 2:09 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

Does the Ebay price also include the fittings and tubing and the gas to
charge the system?


The estimate actually listed "Flush existing lines". If someone
brought me a 39 year old car with a roached AC, I'd replace all the
lines. Must be why the warranty is only 1 year.

Maybe where you live the installer's employees will gladly pick up the
equipment and supplies on their own time. They are probably happy to
dispose of the old equipment in their off hours as well rather then be
paid
to do it. A job like this will require two to three workers, but on TV
it
only takes 10 minutes for a complete installation.

Their own time? They get almost 3,000 bucks!

And I really hope you're not defending them. It just smelled of what
you HVAC folks call a "hack".

Not like I know a thing about air conditioning, but I'd at least
expect the sales monkey to blow some sunshine up my ass and make me
feel like I'm getting my money's worth.


I'm not defending anyone, but I didn't like the idea of you complaining
about a perceived $355. per hour for labor for a supposed 8 hour
installation. If there are 3 men on the job it is 24 man hours which is
$118. and change per man. This is a reasonable rate. There are always
additional labor costs for a contractor in addition to the time spent on the
job. In your case Home Depot is marking up the estimate so they make money
as well as the contractor. Incidentally since your first estimate is with
Home Depot I strongly urge you to get several more prices. I have heard
many stories about Home Depot installations and not all of them have been
good. Some experiences have been recanted in this newsgroup.

The only way to compare apples to apples is to come up with your own
specifications and plans and have several contractors bid on the exact same
items.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:55:34 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:
I'm not defending anyone, but I didn't like the idea of you complaining
about a perceived $355. per hour for labor for a supposed 8 hour
installation. If there are 3 men on the job it is 24 man hours which is
$118. and change per man. This is a reasonable rate. There are always
additional labor costs for a contractor in addition to the time spent on the
job. In your case Home Depot is marking up the estimate so they make money
as well as the contractor. Incidentally since your first estimate is with
Home Depot I strongly urge you to get several more prices. I have heard
many stories about Home Depot installations and not all of them have been
good. Some experiences have been recanted in this newsgroup.

The only way to compare apples to apples is to come up with your own
specifications and plans and have several contractors bid on the exact same
items.

That is good advice. For a job that is going to cost $6000, not getting a
bunch of quotes is insanity. This isn't a $130 plumber call.

On Jun 24, 5:55 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

I'm not defending anyone, but I didn't like the idea of you complaining
about a perceived $355. per hour for labor for a supposed 8 hour
installation. If there are 3 men on the job it is 24 man hours which is
$118. and change per man. This is a reasonable rate.

I would expect an experienced tech to charge over $100/hr. The 2
workers that drag the old oil burner out of the basement aren't worth
that much. I guarantee the contractor I talked to would show up with
one (hopefully) qualified tech and two "undocumented guest workers"
for the grunt work. Just seems to be the way things are done around
here.

Incidentally since your first estimate is with
Home Depot I strongly urge you to get several more prices.

Planning on it. Thanks.


The only way to compare apples to apples is to come up with your own
specifications and plans and have several contractors bid on the exact same
items.

You have the right idea there. I need to do my homework first.

On Jun 24, 6:57*am, " wrote:


best to get multiple quotes and ask your neighbors, with similiar size
homes what they paid

were getting a new furnace with air this friday, $4350 bucks
installed, from a reputable company that has done 2 of my realtives
homes

2.5 ton 13 SEER A/C 70,000 BTU furnace.

Price depends on where you live also. For example, labor costs in the
south are usually a lot less than in the northeast.

I just had a 3 ton, 14 SEER, 410A freon, w/80k furnace installed by
the best rated company in town for $4250. They removed the old unit,
installed the new one, and were gone in 5 hours.

Does the Ebay price also include the fittings and tubing and the gas to
charge the system?

Well, a good quality outside unit (compressor, coil, fan) usually has built
in isolaton valves and MOST of the "gas" is already in the unit. Most of
the weight of the gas is in liquid form. A small about of gas would be
added after the tube set and the inside coil are installed, connected, and
pumped down.

In some cases, both the tube set and the inside coil are shipped precharged.
All the tech does is connect things and then does some temperature/pressure
checks to see whether any more "gas" needs to be added or taken out.

Maybe where you live the installer's employees will gladly pick up the
equipment and supplies on their own time. They are probably happy to
dispose of the old equipment in their off hours as well rather then be
paid to do it. A job like this will require two to three workers, but on
TV it only takes 10 minutes for a complete installation.

The only HEAVY unit is the outside unit. My outside unit was replaced by
ONE man and his wife. She mainly provided moral support, as he had an
"powered" hand truck to move the unit up and down steps. I would doubt
that a 70,000 btu input unit would weight more than an ice box. But maybe
a case can be made for 2 workers (with one being a goffer). Only one guy
needs to be a HVAC tech.

The extra time needed to pick up the new stuff and dump the old might be 2
hours depending upon local circumstances.

Frankly, I just don't trust any HVAC companies. I would like a one man
shop with the guy picking up casual help when he needs over any "company."
When a company screws up they blame the "new guy." With the one man shop,
we know where the buck stops.

But that's my experience.



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jun 24, 9:23*pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:

Well, a good quality outside unit (compressor, coil, fan) usually has built
in isolaton valves and MOST of the "gas" is already in the unit. * Most of
the weight of the gas is in liquid form. * *A small about of gas would be
added after the tube set and the inside coil are installed, connected, and
pumped down.
In some cases, both the tube set and the inside coil are shipped precharged.
All the tech does is connect things and then does some temperature/pressure
checks to see whether any more "gas" needs to be added or taken out.



I wondered how they did that. I assume they connect the inside-to-
outside lines, pull a vacuum on them, then open the isolation valves?


*But maybe a case can be made for 2 workers (with one being a goffer).
*Only one guy needs to be a HVAC tech.


Mine was installed with a crew of 3; 2 experienced workers and the
HVAC tech. One did the inside work, one did the outside work, and the
HVAC tech floating between the two keeping an eye on things and
helping where needed. That's why they got the job done in less than 5
hours and moved on to the next job.

The extra time needed to pick up the new stuff and dump the old might be 2
hours depending upon local circumstances.


When mine was put in, the installer had the supplier deliver the unit
to the site. When the old unit was removed, he called a scavanger who
came in a old pickup with his kids and hauled everything off. Saved
the installer time & labor.

Red

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:47:58 -0500, "Moe Jones" wrote:

Most jobs will take 2 days. First day they remove the existing system and
start putting in the new system then the second day they finish up.


Did mine in about 5 hours
Box trucked dropped off the comp and AH
2 techs showed up 30 min later
AH was a direct fit, so others may take longer

"I wondered how they did that. I assume they connect the inside-to-
outside lines, pull a vacuum on them, then open the isolation valves?

When my outside unit was replaced by my local HVAC guy, that's how he did
it. All the connections were brazed, of course.

IMO, the BEST thing you can do for yourself is find a local guy you trust
and knows what he is doing. When my outside unit failed, I didn't "shop"
for bids; if "my guy" makes a few extra $100, I don't begrudge him.



** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jun 28, 9:02�pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
"I wondered how they did that. I assume they connect the inside-to-
outside lines, pull a vacuum on them, then open the isolation valves?

When my outside unit was replaced by my local HVAC guy, that's how he did
it. � All the connections were brazed, of course.

IMO, the BEST thing you can do for yourself is find a local guy you trust
and knows what he is doing. �When my outside unit failed, I didn't "shop"
for bids; �if "my guy" makes a few extra $100, I don't begrudge him.

** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

new forced air furnace with air......

old furnace removed a week earlier, to facilitate interiore french
drain install, i cemented up old chimney flue connection and painted
wall in advance

started at 8 am, thee techs had it in and complete by 2pm. $4350 bucks
70,000 btu furnace, 2.5 ton AC

nice neat install including some ductwork changes. had to bore holes
in block walls for lines.

its so nice having hole house air