I may have written this before the last time I visited my brother, but
it's worth saying again!

Don't buy a Villeroy and Boch, Magnum model, toilet.

My brother's house has 5 and I can only hope they came with the house
and he didn't get sold this junk when he partially remodeled.

Almost everytime you use it, it has to be cleaned. OTOH, my average
priced Eljers rarely need cleaning, because the water surface in my
Eljers is 3 to 4 times as big as the area in his toilets.

This has afaict nothing to do with the amount needed for flushing.
But since one has to flush it once or twice during cleaning, it still
uses more water than my 30 year-old ones do.

This is something like it:
http://www.villeroy-boch.com/index.p...=62.12845.11.1

In fact, I thought my brother's had the flush button in the middle of
the top, like in the picture (in fact I remember trying to get the lid
off a few years ago, but being stymied by the connection between the
top and the rest), but the four I used this trip all had a lever on
the side. (But the same brand name and model name and the same
failing.)

Lots of fancy words that disguise the fact that it's no good. Who
knows if any of their other models are any good!

Lots of bragging that the company is 260 years old, but no admission
they still make bad products.

And it's 780 dollars!!!! How would any homeowner know in advance that
the thing got dirty every time someone used it? How many people would
demand that the plumber or the general contractor replace them for
free?

It also requires a large, non-standard shaped plastic seat and cover,
which is probably better than the average seat, but probably is hard
to find and costs a fortune. And what to do when they stop making
them?


BTW, I just came across an Eljer toilet designed to go in a corner
that costs only 254 dollars with free shipping. In case you have a
corner.

And Hechinger's still has a website, even though all the stores closed
more than a decade ago!
http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog...AA760D35E75F36

Born in the early 1900s, Hechinger was a retail industry giant with
more than 200 stores across the United States through the late 1990's.
Home Décor Products is proud to announce that customers can now once
again access Hechinger tools and hardware at www.hechinger.com.
Hechinger.com offers power and hand tools, outdoor equipment, building
and remodeling tools, welding and paint supplies and more – all from
leading brand names including Makita, Hitachi, Toro, Stanley Tools,
Wagner, & more.

Very strange. Why bother?

"mm" wrote in message
...
I may have written this before the last time I visited my brother, but
it's worth saying again!

Don't buy a Villeroy and Boch, Magnum model, toilet.

My brother's house has 5 and I can only hope they came with the house
and he didn't get sold this junk when he partially remodeled.

Almost everytime you use it, it has to be cleaned. OTOH, my average
priced Eljers rarely need cleaning, because the water surface in my
Eljers is 3 to 4 times as big as the area in his toilets.

This has afaict nothing to do with the amount needed for flushing.
But since one has to flush it once or twice during cleaning, it still
uses more water than my 30 year-old ones do.

This is something like it:
http://www.villeroy-boch.com/index.p...=62.12845.11.1


It looks to be a common design used in Europe. They tend to have a straight
sided bowl with little water sitting in the bottoms. They get dirty very
fast. IMO, they should not be sold for sanitary reasons. I think most
every toilet in Europe has skid marks in it.

on 5/26/2008 2:12 AM mm said the following:
I may have written this before the last time I visited my brother, but
it's worth saying again!

Don't buy a Villeroy and Boch, Magnum model, toilet.

My brother's house has 5 and I can only hope they came with the house
and he didn't get sold this junk when he partially remodeled.

Almost everytime you use it, it has to be cleaned. OTOH, my average
priced Eljers rarely need cleaning, because the water surface in my
Eljers is 3 to 4 times as big as the area in his toilets.

This has afaict nothing to do with the amount needed for flushing.
But since one has to flush it once or twice during cleaning, it still
uses more water than my 30 year-old ones do.

This is something like it:
http://www.villeroy-boch.com/index.p...=62.12845.11.1

In fact, I thought my brother's had the flush button in the middle of
the top, like in the picture (in fact I remember trying to get the lid
off a few years ago, but being stymied by the connection between the
top and the rest), but the four I used this trip all had a lever on
the side. (But the same brand name and model name and the same
failing.)

Lots of fancy words that disguise the fact that it's no good. Who
knows if any of their other models are any good!

Lots of bragging that the company is 260 years old, but no admission
they still make bad products.

And it's 780 dollars!!!! How would any homeowner know in advance that
the thing got dirty every time someone used it? How many people would
demand that the plumber or the general contractor replace them for
free?

It also requires a large, non-standard shaped plastic seat and cover,
which is probably better than the average seat, but probably is hard
to find and costs a fortune. And what to do when they stop making
them?


BTW, I just came across an Eljer toilet designed to go in a corner
that costs only 254 dollars with free shipping. In case you have a
corner.

And Hechinger's still has a website, even though all the stores closed
more than a decade ago!
http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog...AA760D35E75F36


How come that $254 toilet is priced from $318?
Born in the early 1900s, Hechinger was a retail industry giant with
more than 200 stores across the United States through the late 1990's.
Home Décor Products is proud to announce that customers can now once
again access Hechinger tools and hardware at www.hechinger.com.
Hechinger.com offers power and hand tools, outdoor equipment, building
and remodeling tools, welding and paint supplies and more – all from
leading brand names including Makita, Hitachi, Toro, Stanley Tools,
Wagner, & more.

Very strange. Why bother?



Not a very unbiased Hechinger plug, is it?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Mon, 26 May 2008 10:47:40 -0400, willshak
wrote:


And Hechinger's still has a website, even though all the stores closed
more than a decade ago!
http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog...AA760D35E75F36


How come that $254 toilet is priced from $318?

I was surprised to see someplace selling "Hechingers" products, even
though Hechningers was a hardware store and didn't make its own
products. So they charge 318 for this, but someplace else had it for
254 iirc.

Born in the early 1900s, Hechinger was a retail industry giant with
more than 200 stores across the United States through the late 1990's.
Home Décor Products is proud to announce that customers can now once
again access Hechinger tools and hardware at www.hechinger.com.
Hechinger.com offers power and hand tools, outdoor equipment, building
and remodeling tools, welding and paint supplies and more – all from
leading brand names including Makita, Hitachi, Toro, Stanley Tools,
Wagner, & more.

Very strange. Why bother?


Not a very unbiased Hechinger plug, is it?

--

On Mon, 26 May 2008 08:56:27 -0400, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

How old is it?

If my brother put them in, less than 8 years. I'm not sure how old
the house is. Maybe 15?

Keep in mind that the older water savers of all makes were not very
good.

Also consider that many makes have a dual flush. Often it is only a
matter of holding the handle a couple of seconds to get more water. Even

The toilet flushes well enough what is in the water. The problem is
what never reaches the water. The surface above the water is dirty,
and flushing again usually doesn't help much, and flushing once but
longer wouldn't help anymore.

when using the handle, the amount of water used is a lot less than the
pre-water savers.

I don't know a thing about the make and model, but I do see a lot of
complaints about equipment due to those two facts.

This is an additional thing to worry about before buying. The
acreage of water in the bowl is too little to catch the waste,
compared to a simple American toilet with 3 or 4 times the surface
area.


Just like Edwin says.

"mm" wrote in message
...
I may have written this before the last time I visited my brother, but
it's worth saying again!

Don't buy a Villeroy and Boch, Magnum model, toilet.

My brother's house has 5 and I can only hope they came with the house
and he didn't get sold this junk when he partially remodeled.

Almost everytime you use it, it has to be cleaned. OTOH, my average
priced Eljers rarely need cleaning, because the water surface in my
Eljers is 3 to 4 times as big as the area in his toilets.

This has afaict nothing to do with the amount needed for flushing.
But since one has to flush it once or twice during cleaning, it still
uses more water than my 30 year-old ones do.

This is something like it:
http://www.villeroy-boch.com/index.p...=62.12845.11.1

mm wrote:
I may have written this before the last time I visited my brother, but
it's worth saying again!

Don't buy a Villeroy and Boch, Magnum model, toilet.

My brother's house has 5 and I can only hope they came with the house
and he didn't get sold this junk when he partially remodeled.

Almost everytime you use it, it has to be cleaned. OTOH, my average
priced Eljers rarely need cleaning, because the water surface in my
Eljers is 3 to 4 times as big as the area in his toilets.

This has afaict nothing to do with the amount needed for flushing.
But since one has to flush it once or twice during cleaning, it still
uses more water than my 30 year-old ones do.

This is something like it:
http://www.villeroy-boch.com/index.p...=62.12845.11.1

In fact, I thought my brother's had the flush button in the middle of
the top, like in the picture (in fact I remember trying to get the lid
off a few years ago, but being stymied by the connection between the
top and the rest), but the four I used this trip all had a lever on
the side. (But the same brand name and model name and the same
failing.)

Lots of fancy words that disguise the fact that it's no good. Who
knows if any of their other models are any good!

Lots of bragging that the company is 260 years old, but no admission
they still make bad products.

And it's 780 dollars!!!! How would any homeowner know in advance that
the thing got dirty every time someone used it? How many people would
demand that the plumber or the general contractor replace them for
free?

It also requires a large, non-standard shaped plastic seat and cover,
which is probably better than the average seat, but probably is hard
to find and costs a fortune. And what to do when they stop making
them?


BTW, I just came across an Eljer toilet designed to go in a corner
that costs only 254 dollars with free shipping. In case you have a
corner.

And Hechinger's still has a website, even though all the stores closed
more than a decade ago!
http://www.hechinger.com/web/catalog...AA760D35E75F36

Born in the early 1900s, Hechinger was a retail industry giant with
more than 200 stores across the United States through the late 1990's.
Home Décor Products is proud to announce that customers can now once
again access Hechinger tools and hardware at www.hechinger.com.
Hechinger.com offers power and hand tools, outdoor equipment, building
and remodeling tools, welding and paint supplies and more – all from
leading brand names including Makita, Hitachi, Toro, Stanley Tools,
Wagner, & more.

Very strange. Why bother?

I can't tell from your description, but some European toilets have a
shelf at the bottom, above the water level. The idea is that your feces
land on the shelf, where you can inspect them. Once your inspection
is done, you flush and the feces are washed off the shelf into the
water, then into the trap. I haven't noticed that such toilets have
deposits on the shelf, but it could happen. I know that having a toilet
brush by every toilet is common in Europe.

"Not@home" wrote in message
I can't tell from your description, but some European toilets have a shelf
at the bottom, above the water level. The idea is that your feces land on
the shelf, where you can inspect them. Once your inspection is done, you
flush and the feces are washed off the shelf into the water, then into the
trap. I haven't noticed that such toilets have deposits on the shelf, but
it could happen. I know that having a toilet brush by every toilet is
common in Europe.


You have to marvel at some of the public toilets in Europe. My favorite is
a shallow porcelain tray at ground level with a hole in it and a grab bar on
the side. Or no seat, just the porcelain bowl to hover over. The hotels,
restaurants, and private homes are OK though.