Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls downstream
wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage history
?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

Robert11 wrote:

Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?
Probably. Take a heavy extension cord from refrig. and plug it into an
outlet that is not controlled by the gfci and see if it trips. gfci's can
be touchy.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

On 5/14/2008 10:12 AM Robert11 spake thus:

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls downstream
wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage history?

Not usually, but can be if defective. See below.

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Dunno. Easy to find out, though: just unplug the fridge from the GFCI
circuit and see if the problem (the GFCI tripping) goes away. (Plug the
fridge in elsewhere in the meantime to avoid spoiled food.)


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

Never have the fridge on a GFCI protected line.

"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

On May 14, 1:21*pm, evodawg wrote:
Robert11 wrote:
Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Probably. Take a heavy extension cord from refrig. and plug it into an
outlet that is not controlled by the gfci and see if it trips. gfci's can
be touchy.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is typically stated that refridgerators and freezers should not be
plugged into a GFCI-controlled outlet. There is certainly no
requirement that says you have to, unless things have changed very
recently. Well, unless of course the fridge is plugged into an
receptacle which is "installed to serve the countertop surfaces" which
is what the NEC GFCI code covers.

The biggest danger is that something will trip the GFCI, maybe even
the fridge or freezer itself, and all the contents will be ruined.

"Robert11" wrote in message
. ..
Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob



The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.

On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Robert11" wrote in message

. ..





Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.

try plugging fridge into a extension cord if the trip stops you know
the cause.

refrigerators are supposed to be on a dedicated outlet

wrote in message
...
On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Robert11" wrote in message

. ..





Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.



One of the reasons for kitchen countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected
is because of service people getting shocked or electrocuted when working on
plumbing or appliances by plugging a faulty cord or tool into the outlet.
The code does not require GFCI protection for a hardwired dishwasher nor for
a behind the fridge receptacle. However the 2008 NEC eliminates many
exceptions to the GFCI rule. All garage receptacles regardless of their use
or location must now be GFCI protected. This includes refrigerators and
garage door openers. And of course all outlets now are required to be
tamper resistant. Hurry and use up your inventory.

GFCI's are required in laundry areas when they are within six feet of a
sink.

On May 14, 6:48Â*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:





"Robert11" wrote in message

...

Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.

One of the reasons for kitchen countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected
is because of service people getting shocked or electrocuted when working on
plumbing or appliances by plugging a faulty cord or tool into the outlet.
The code does not require GFCI protection for a hardwired dishwasher nor for
a behind the fridge receptacle. Â*However the 2008 NEC eliminates many
exceptions to the GFCI rule. Â*All garage receptacles regardless of their use
or location must now be GFCI protected. Â*This includes refrigerators and
garage door openers. Â*And of course all outlets now are required to be
tamper resistant. Â*Hurry and use up your inventory.

GFCI's are required in laundry areas when they are within six feet of a
sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All garage receptacles regardless of their use or location must
now be GFCI protected

I don't know how many people have fridges, freezers or beer coolers in
their garages - millions? - but I'm guessing that the majority are
going to lean towards being non-compliant vs. moving the appliance.

I know a guy whose address is very similar to mine who replaced a GFCI
protected receptacle in his garage with a standard receptacle because
my - errr - I mean *his* freezer tripped the GFCI and he lost a bunch
of food.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On May 14, 6:48 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:





"Robert11" wrote in message

...

Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.

One of the reasons for kitchen countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected
is because of service people getting shocked or electrocuted when working
on
plumbing or appliances by plugging a faulty cord or tool into the outlet.
The code does not require GFCI protection for a hardwired dishwasher nor
for
a behind the fridge receptacle. However the 2008 NEC eliminates many
exceptions to the GFCI rule. All garage receptacles regardless of their
use
or location must now be GFCI protected. This includes refrigerators and
garage door openers. And of course all outlets now are required to be
tamper resistant. Hurry and use up your inventory.

GFCI's are required in laundry areas when they are within six feet of a
sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All garage receptacles regardless of their use or location must
now be GFCI protected

I don't know how many people have fridges, freezers or beer coolers in
their garages - millions? - but I'm guessing that the majority are
going to lean towards being non-compliant vs. moving the appliance.

I know a guy whose address is very similar to mine who replaced a GFCI
protected receptacle in his garage with a standard receptacle because
my - errr - I mean *his* freezer tripped the GFCI and he lost a bunch
of food.


*This very issue came up in a recent code class that I took. According to
the instructor the reasoning behind this change is that there may not always
be a fridge there. When you move out, the new occupants may have another
use for that particular receptacle. The new GFCI's are supposed to be less
prone to nuisance tripping. As a licensed electrical contractor I am
obligated to follow what is required. I personally think builders should
make provisions for a second fridge or freezer in the kitchen as it seems
that many people have a second unit in their garage or basement.

Several months ago I was doing work for some customers in their house.
While there I noticed in the garage that they had a refrigerator. It was
connected to an extension cord that was run on the floor in front of the
steps that lead into the house from the garage. They had unplugged the
central vac unit which had a high mounted receptacle and plugged the
refrigerator extension cord in instead. This couple had three small
children. I sent them a letter outlining the safety hazards associated with
this hookup which also mentioned trip hazards as well as electrical. I also
included a price to make it right. I have not heard from them regarding
this. If that vac outlet was a GFCI there would be a certain degree of
protection when that cord became frayed from people walking on it.

On May 14, 8:08Â*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On May 14, 6:48 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:





wrote in message

...
On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

"Robert11" wrote in message

...

Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.

One of the reasons for kitchen countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected
is because of service people getting shocked or electrocuted when working
on
plumbing or appliances by plugging a faulty cord or tool into the outlet..
The code does not require GFCI protection for a hardwired dishwasher nor
for
a behind the fridge receptacle. However the 2008 NEC eliminates many
exceptions to the GFCI rule. All garage receptacles regardless of their
use
or location must now be GFCI protected. This includes refrigerators and
garage door openers. And of course all outlets now are required to be
tamper resistant. Hurry and use up your inventory.

GFCI's are required in laundry areas when they are within six feet of a
sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All garage receptacles regardless of their use or location must
now be GFCI protected

I don't know how many people have fridges, freezers or beer coolers in
their garages - millions? - but I'm guessing that the majority are
going to lean towards being non-compliant vs. moving the appliance.

I know a guy whose address is very similar to mine who replaced a GFCI
protected receptacle in his garage with a standard receptacle because
my - errr - I mean *his* freezer tripped the GFCI and he lost a bunch
of food.

*This very issue came up in a recent code class that I took. According to
the instructor the reasoning behind this change is that there may not always
be a fridge there. Â*When you move out, the new occupants may have another
use for that particular receptacle. Â*The new GFCI's are supposed to be less
prone to nuisance tripping. Â*As a licensed electrical contractor I am
obligated to follow what is required. Â*I personally think builders should
make provisions for a second fridge or freezer in the kitchen as it seems
that many people have a second unit in their garage or basement.

Several months ago I was doing work for some customers in their house.
While there I noticed in the garage that they had a refrigerator. Â*It was
connected to an extension cord that was run on the floor in front of the
steps that lead into the house from the garage. Â*They had unplugged the
central vac unit which had a high mounted receptacle and plugged the
refrigerator extension cord in instead. Â*This couple had three small
children. Â*I sent them a letter outlining the safety hazards associated with
this hookup which also mentioned trip hazards as well as electrical. Â*I also
included a price to make it right. Â*I have not heard from them regarding
this. Â*If that vac outlet was a GFCI there would be a certain degree of
protection when that cord became frayed from people walking on it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think the requirement for GFCI's in garages will lead to more
extension cords or other ways around them to avoid the danger of
nuisance trips. Even with the aforementioned lessening of nuisance
trips, many folks arent going to take that chance with a fridge or
freezer.

I believe they call that the law of unexpected consequences.

I think the requirement for GFCI's in garages will lead to more
extension cords or other ways around them to avoid the danger of
nuisance trips. Even with the aforementioned lessening of nuisance
trips, many folks arent going to take that chance with a fridge or
freezer.

I believe they call that the law of unexpected consequences.

A receptacle located behind an appliance that is not readily moved and
dedicated to it; which for some inspectors means it must be a single
receptacle; is exempt from the requirement for GFCI protection.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison


210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere
receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8)
shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at
or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to
storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two
appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in
normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is
cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).

I don't know how many people have fridges, freezers or beer coolers in
their garages - millions? - but I'm guessing that the majority are
going to lean towards being non-compliant vs. moving the appliance.

I know a guy whose address is very similar to mine who replaced a GFCI
protected receptacle in his garage with a standard receptacle because
my - errr - I mean *his* freezer tripped the GFCI and he lost a bunch
of food.

I'm sorry about your loss.

1) You might want to check out the appliance to see whether some water or
condensation has gotten where is should not be. Some fridges uses quartz
tube heaters and if the frost build up was high the ends of the tube would
get wet ... Some folks report problems when the appliance switches off
which indicates electrical leakage around the thermost contacts.

2) You also might want to invest in a "freezer alarm." But that will not
help if you leave the house for more than a day or so.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Tom Horne" wrote in message
news:P%NWj.254$vE.144@trnddc03...
I think the requirement for GFCI's in garages will lead to more
extension cords or other ways around them to avoid the danger of
nuisance trips. Even with the aforementioned lessening of nuisance
trips, many folks arent going to take that chance with a fridge or
freezer.

I believe they call that the law of unexpected consequences.

A receptacle located behind an appliance that is not readily moved and
dedicated to it; which for some inspectors means it must be a single
receptacle; is exempt from the requirement for GFCI protection.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison


210.8 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel.
(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere
receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall
have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or
below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage
areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two
appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in
normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is
cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8).



*Tom, the exceptions have been deleted in the 2008 book. I had to read it
three times myself just to confirm.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On May 14, 8:08 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
On May 14, 6:48 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:





wrote in message

...
On May 14, 5:05�pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:

"Robert11" wrote in message

...

Hello,

Have put in a GFCI wall outlet type of GFCI breaker in kitchen.
The typical type by Leviton.

Wired it as a "feed-thru" configuration, in that it also controls
downstream wall outlets.

The refrigerator is on one of these downstream outlets.

The GFCI trips every day or so.
Hard to tell if it's when the fridge turns on or off, though.
Again, not all of the time.

Question:

Are these gadgets "notoriously fickle" and sensitive in their usage
history ?

Think the fridge might be the problem, or... ?

Thanks,
Bob

The new GFI receptacles are much better than older versions so it is
possible that there is a problem with your fridge. �Refrigerators in
the
kitchen are not required to have GFI protection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

refrigerators, freezers, dishwashers, washing machines are not usually
put on GFCIs because of false trips. plus old wiring long runs can
develop capacitive coupling, causing false trips.

One of the reasons for kitchen countertop receptacles to be GFCI
protected
is because of service people getting shocked or electrocuted when
working
on
plumbing or appliances by plugging a faulty cord or tool into the
outlet.
The code does not require GFCI protection for a hardwired dishwasher nor
for
a behind the fridge receptacle. However the 2008 NEC eliminates many
exceptions to the GFCI rule. All garage receptacles regardless of their
use
or location must now be GFCI protected. This includes refrigerators and
garage door openers. And of course all outlets now are required to be
tamper resistant. Hurry and use up your inventory.

GFCI's are required in laundry areas when they are within six feet of a
sink.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

All garage receptacles regardless of their use or location must
now be GFCI protected

I don't know how many people have fridges, freezers or beer coolers in
their garages - millions? - but I'm guessing that the majority are
going to lean towards being non-compliant vs. moving the appliance.

I know a guy whose address is very similar to mine who replaced a GFCI
protected receptacle in his garage with a standard receptacle because
my - errr - I mean *his* freezer tripped the GFCI and he lost a bunch
of food.

*This very issue came up in a recent code class that I took. According to
the instructor the reasoning behind this change is that there may not
always
be a fridge there. When you move out, the new occupants may have another
use for that particular receptacle. The new GFCI's are supposed to be less
prone to nuisance tripping. As a licensed electrical contractor I am
obligated to follow what is required. I personally think builders should
make provisions for a second fridge or freezer in the kitchen as it seems
that many people have a second unit in their garage or basement.

Several months ago I was doing work for some customers in their house.
While there I noticed in the garage that they had a refrigerator. It was
connected to an extension cord that was run on the floor in front of the
steps that lead into the house from the garage. They had unplugged the
central vac unit which had a high mounted receptacle and plugged the
refrigerator extension cord in instead. This couple had three small
children. I sent them a letter outlining the safety hazards associated
with
this hookup which also mentioned trip hazards as well as electrical. I
also
included a price to make it right. I have not heard from them regarding
this. If that vac outlet was a GFCI there would be a certain degree of
protection when that cord became frayed from people walking on it.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think the requirement for GFCI's in garages will lead to more
extension cords or other ways around them to avoid the danger of
nuisance trips. Even with the aforementioned lessening of nuisance
trips, many folks arent going to take that chance with a fridge or
freezer.

I believe they call that the law of unexpected consequences.


* The people who wrote the code consider the loss of life more important
than the loss of refrigerated food. Unfortunately you are correct in
assuming that some people will decide for themselves how important
convenience is.