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Default Lending library for tools

There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx


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Default Lending library for tools

Sorry, don't know any library lending tools. However, I know hardware
stores where you can rent tools at low rates. Not only for material
you bought there.

Oh, BTW, I am in Germany.

virtuPIC
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Airspace V - international hangar flying!
http://www.airspace-v.com/ggadgets for tools & toys
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Default Lending library for tools

Bob wrote:
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?


The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole diggers,
scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools, whatever.

Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.

How about libraries loaning tables and chairs for a reception? Trucks or
trailers for that one-time move? Heck, why not limousines for the prom?
Small airplanes for drilling holes in the sky on a lazy weekend? Deep-sea
fishing boats? Clowns for your three-year-old's birthday party?

I am not in favor of buring books. Most library administrators, however,
should be herded together then somebody strike a flint.


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Default Lending library for tools

on 5/5/2008 6:44 AM Bob said the following:
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".


The rental stores just tell you how to turn it on, in most cases, too.

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx





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Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
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Default Lending library for tools

"Bob" wrote in
:

There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx



I wish someone would develop a commercial version of the USAF's auto hobby
shops.They had garage bays with basic tool sets,and a tool crib for loaning
special tools.
It would be nice to have a place to do some repair jobs I can't do in the
parking lot.

But,as others have mentioned,liability would be a problem.

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net


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Default Lending library for tools

Our library needs to get the voters to re-approve its funding every so many
years. They were having a difficult time getting the voters to vote yes.

I pointed out that many people do not read books. They watch TV, play video
games, etc. So I suggested the library offer something to the non-book
readers. Perhaps loan sports equipment, movies, video games, etc. Whatever.
My suggestion went in one ear and out the other. They lost at the next
election.

Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries if
they also provide services for the non-book readers.


"Bob" wrote in message
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such things as
cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second thought I
imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be abused by people
who don't know how to use them or care for them, or just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw cut
them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the miter
saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough, and
that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is anyone
aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx



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Default Lending library for tools

In article ,
"Bill" wrote:


Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries if
they also provide services for the non-book readers.


Like what? Eyeglass prescriptions? Auto insurance? A cosmetics counter?
I thought a library was a place that loaned books. Why does it need to
offer anything to the illiterate?
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Default Lending library for tools

"Bill" wrote in
:

Our library needs to get the voters to re-approve its funding every so
many years. They were having a difficult time getting the voters to
vote yes.

I pointed out that many people do not read books. They watch TV, play
video games, etc. So I suggested the library offer something to the
non-book readers. Perhaps loan sports equipment, movies, video games,
etc. Whatever. My suggestion went in one ear and out the other. They
lost at the next election.

Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


"Bob" wrote in message
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such things
as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second thought
I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be abused by
people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or just don't
care.


also,the librarians would not know how to maintain and service the tools.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough, and
that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx




loaning tools would be Gov't competing with local businesses.
decrease their earnings,tax revenues decrease,businesses go out of
business,people become unemployed.

That is why it's not a good idea.

Books,OTOH,are educational items,and it's good for gov't to enable low cost
education.They also have Internet connected PCs and printers for people to
use for free.
IMO,voting could be done by PC;just have the registered voter use a
unique registration number sent to them by snailmail along with a sample
ballot,they go online to the voting website,enter their choices,have the
selected choices emailed back to them for confirmation.
The computers at the voting HQ prints out a ballot for hard copy,with the
registration number(but no name/address) so there's no funny business.

Those without PCs could vote at libraries and schools,like they already do
in some places. You could also have mobile voting buses with wi-fi PC
connections.

I note that some libraries DO loan movies (classics?)and perhaps video
games,though probably not the latest and greatest.
Movies are also becoming more available online.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
"Bill" wrote:


Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


Like what? Eyeglass prescriptions? Auto insurance? A cosmetics
counter? I thought a library was a place that loaned books.


I agree.

Why does
it need to offer anything to the illiterate?


well,they CAN help the illiterate to become literate.
some "video games" can teach people how to type,teach children
math,reading,history,etc.

I'd like to see them have up-to-date auto service manuals on their shelves.
Even if only CD-ROM.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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On 5/5/2008 4:49 AM HeyBub spake thus:

Bob wrote:

There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.


The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole diggers,
scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools, whatever.

Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.


Not true, actually, as a glance at the yellow pages shows Big 4 and
Hertz Equipment Rental branches in Berkeley.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill


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On 5/5/2008 3:44 AM Bob spake thus:

There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?


I'm a borrower at my local tool lending library, the Temescal Branch of
the Oakland Public Library. They've been lending a broad range of tools
for more than a decade now with none of the problems you've posed here.
They have everything from ordinary hand tools to gardening stuff to tile
saws to hammer drills, Sawzalls, post-hole diggers, grinders, routers,
you name it.

The staff is knowledgeable, but they will tell you that they don't know
everything about how to use every tool. That's why they also have a
large selection of how-to books there.

It works quite well, and everyone's happy with it.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill
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David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 5/5/2008 4:49 AM HeyBub spake thus:

Bob wrote:

There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.


The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole
diggers, scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools,
whatever. Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.


Not true, actually, as a glance at the yellow pages shows Big 4 and
Hertz Equipment Rental branches in Berkeley.


I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.


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Bill wrote:
Our library needs to get the voters to re-approve its funding every
so many years. They were having a difficult time getting the voters
to vote yes.
I pointed out that many people do not read books. They watch TV, play
video games, etc. So I suggested the library offer something to the
non-book readers. Perhaps loan sports equipment, movies, video games,
etc. Whatever. My suggestion went in one ear and out the other. They
lost at the next election.

Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It's a terrible idea, bordering on Communism. Anyone who suggests such
should be shunned.

They'd probably feel more at home on a commune anyway.


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Jim Yanik wrote:

Why does
it need to offer anything to the illiterate?


well,they CAN help the illiterate to become literate.
some "video games" can teach people how to type,teach children
math,reading,history,etc.

I'd like to see them have up-to-date auto service manuals on their
shelves. Even if only CD-ROM.


Okay, help people read. Good. But even that's secondary to the library being
a repository of knowledge. Actual conversation:

Me: "Do you have Encyclopedia Judaica?"
Librarian: "No."
Me: "Do you have Marquis' Who's Who?"
Librarian: "No."
Me: "Do you have Cumulative Books In Print or the Congressional Record?"
Librarian: "No."
Me: (trying to avoide the Monty Python Cheese Shop skit) "What DO you have?"
Librarian: "We have video games, art work, puppets, music, games, internet
access, all kinds of things."
Me: "What's your most popular item?"
Librarian: "Paperback historical romances. Leave two, take two. It's the
honor system."

I can see the internet taking over the primary, historical, function of
libraries. We can then eliminate libraries and save tax money.



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On 5/5/2008 2:09 PM HeyBub spake thus:

Bill wrote:

Our library needs to get the voters to re-approve its funding every
so many years. They were having a difficult time getting the voters
to vote yes.
I pointed out that many people do not read books. They watch TV, play
video games, etc. So I suggested the library offer something to the
non-book readers. Perhaps loan sports equipment, movies, video games,
etc. Whatever. My suggestion went in one ear and out the other. They
lost at the next election.

Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It's a terrible idea, bordering on Communism. Anyone who suggests such
should be shunned.

They'd probably feel more at home on a commune anyway.


Or perhaps a kibbutz ...


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill


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On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?


Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago. There
were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts Center had
inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT I
purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.
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On 5/5/2008 10:32 AM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

I'm a borrower at my local tool lending library, the Temescal Branch of
the Oakland Public Library. They've been lending a broad range of tools
for more than a decade now with none of the problems you've posed here.
They have everything from ordinary hand tools to gardening stuff to tile
saws to hammer drills, Sawzalls, post-hole diggers, grinders, routers,
you name it.


I just came back from the tool lending library (returned the Makita side
grinder I borrowed), so I can tell you that they've actually been around
for nine years and have never had a liability problem, once, in all that
time.

It's pretty simple, really: borrowers sign a liability waiver, which
protects the library from claims against it in case of injury. The guy
there said he remembered exactly one case of someone cutting themself on
a table saw, but that it didn't result in any litigation against the
library. (File under "**** happens", I suppose.)

You can look at their web info at
http://www.oaklandlibrary.org/Branch...toolsched.html.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill
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On May 5, 5:44 am, "Bob" wrote:
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
things as cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
cut them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx


I live in the metro Milwaukee area, and there are two locations of a
"tool loan program". Here is a little info about one -

http://www.milwaukee.gov/NeedTheRightToolForT16686.htm

JK
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"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 5/5/2008 10:32 AM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

I'm a borrower at my local tool lending library, the Temescal Branch of
the Oakland Public Library. They've been lending a broad range of tools
for more than a decade now with none of the problems you've posed here.
They have everything from ordinary hand tools to gardening stuff to tile
saws to hammer drills, Sawzalls, post-hole diggers, grinders, routers,
you name it.


I just came back from the tool lending library (returned the Makita side
grinder I borrowed), so I can tell you that they've actually been around
for nine years and have never had a liability problem, once, in all that
time.

It's pretty simple, really: borrowers sign a liability waiver, which
protects the library from claims against it in case of injury. The guy
there said he remembered exactly one case of someone cutting themself on a
table saw, but that it didn't result in any litigation against the
library. (File under "**** happens", I suppose.)

You can look at their web info at
http://www.oaklandlibrary.org/Branch...toolsched.html.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill


Okay good input but how do they keep costs in check. I imagine most tools
are donated but what about maintenance. When a tool breaks or needs
sharpning (for example) who pays for it? Do they have tool volunteers or is
the library staff expected to do that too.

We are building a new library in my town but no talk about tools. We do
have a separate "lend - A - Tool" shed operated by the town with mostly yard
tools for the purpose of promoting better looking neighborhoods.


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HeyBub wrote:
....
Me: "Do you have Encyclopedia Judaica?"
Librarian: "No."


"--not on shelf but we have online access and can get you any
article(s) you wish."

Me: "Do you have Marquis' Who's Who?"
Librarian: "No."

" -- but interlibrary loan can have a copy in __ days."

Me: "Do you have Cumulative Books In Print or the Congressional Record?"
Librarian: "No."


Etc., ...

....

--


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pipedown wrote:
....
Okay good input but how do they keep costs in check. I imagine most tools
are donated but what about maintenance. When a tool breaks or needs
sharpning (for example) who pays for it? Do they have tool volunteers or is
the library staff expected to do that too.

....

I'm sure it's part of the operating budget of the library. Oakland is a
large enough municipality in a high-tax 'n spend environment it's
undoubtedly peanuts in the city/county budgets for the libraries, anyway.

Small community, no tools (and doubt if would ever try it), but about
everything in the way of mainstream alternate media--books on tape,
CD/DVD, video, etc., etc. On Foundation board; it's City, not County so
as county resident not eligible to sit on library board itself,
unfortunately.

High percentage of popular fiction, of course, but good selection of
most genres; virtually any title available through inter-library loan at
no cost to patron.

--

--
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On May 5, 6:44 pm, "pipedown" wrote:
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message

s.com...



On 5/5/2008 10:32 AM David Nebenzahl spake thus:


I'm a borrower at my local tool lending library, the Temescal Branch of
the Oakland Public Library. They've been lending a broad range of tools
for more than a decade now with none of the problems you've posed here.
They have everything from ordinary hand tools to gardening stuff to tile
saws to hammer drills, Sawzalls, post-hole diggers, grinders, routers,
you name it.


I just came back from the tool lending library (returned the Makita side
grinder I borrowed), so I can tell you that they've actually been around
for nine years and have never had a liability problem, once, in all that
time.


It's pretty simple, really: borrowers sign a liability waiver, which
protects the library from claims against it in case of injury. The guy
there said he remembered exactly one case of someone cutting themself on a
table saw, but that it didn't result in any litigation against the
library. (File under "**** happens", I suppose.)


You can look at their web info at
http://www.oaklandlibrary.org/Branch...toolsched.html.


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.


- Attributed to Winston Churchill


Okay good input but how do they keep costs in check. I imagine most tools
are donated but what about maintenance. When a tool breaks or needs
sharpning (for example) who pays for it? Do they have tool volunteers or is
the library staff expected to do that too.

We are building a new library in my town but no talk about tools. We do
have a separate "lend - A - Tool" shed operated by the town with mostly yard
tools for the purpose of promoting better looking neighborhoods.


Ours is funded through a block grant. I am assuming there is money in
the budget for repairs and replacement.

JK
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"Bill" wrote in message

Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries
if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It would get me to vote NO. Why should tax dollars be use to lend tools?


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Oren wrote in news:j71v14dj4rb4c6oeij0gbabjn9h34lo0g1@
4ax.com:

On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?


Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago. There
were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts Center had
inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT I
purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.


I wouldn't have thought they would just leave them there on the honor
system :-)
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On Mon, 05 May 2008 22:37:05 -0500, Red Green
wrote:

Oren wrote in news:j71v14dj4rb4c6oeij0gbabjn9h34lo0g1@
4ax.com:

On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?


Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago. There
were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts Center had
inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT I
purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.


I wouldn't have thought they would just leave them there on the honor
system :-)



Some of the inmate orderlies had access to places; even staff needed
military escort.


And you wouldn't have thought how many pregnancies occurred on that
base...while they were there :-/



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On Mon, 5 May 2008 22:08:47 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville,utah@zionvistas wrote:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
Oren wrote in news:j71v14dj4rb4c6oeij0gbabjn9h34lo0g1@
4ax.com:

On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?

Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago. There
were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts Center had
inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT I
purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.


I wouldn't have thought they would just leave them there on the honor
system :-)


I was taken to the hobby shop on Nellis AFB circa 1968 by an airman
neighbor. We rounded a corner and came up on an SR71. I have never seen
one human being become so upset over something. We went on to the hobby
shop, and it was not until much later that I understood what I had seen, and
how serious a breach of security it was.

Steve


We had a serious conversation (with military staff) one day, after an
inmate was found to have a key for a Thunderbird ( USAF Thunderbird )
hanger cabinet. He was an orderly and had access to liquor, using
this key. . The Commander fixed the concern on base , so we gave the
inmate a job change :-/

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"Bob" wrote in message
...
There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such things as
cement mixers, saws, etc.

At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second thought I
imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be abused by people
who don't know how to use them or care for them, or just don't care.

For example:
"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw cut
them pretty good".
"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the miter
saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
Etc - etc.

Then there is the liability problem:
"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough, and
that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".

The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is anyone
aware of this practice and how it works in reality?

Just curious - Bob-tx


I would think some moron would cut their finger off and sue. Plus a lot of
people who rent stuff are clueless about how it works, and will either mess
it up or hurt themselves.

Steve


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"Red Green" wrote in message
...
Oren wrote in news:j71v14dj4rb4c6oeij0gbabjn9h34lo0g1@
4ax.com:

On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?


Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago. There
were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts Center had
inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT I
purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.


I wouldn't have thought they would just leave them there on the honor
system :-)


I was taken to the hobby shop on Nellis AFB circa 1968 by an airman
neighbor. We rounded a corner and came up on an SR71. I have never seen
one human being become so upset over something. We went on to the hobby
shop, and it was not until much later that I understood what I had seen, and
how serious a breach of security it was.

Steve


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Default Lending library for tools

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries
if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It would get me to vote NO. Why should tax dollars be use to lend tools?


Why should tax dollars be used to lend books?

--
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"dpb" wrote in message ...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It would get me to vote NO. Why should tax dollars be use to lend tools?


Why should tax dollars be used to lend books?

--


Why not? They're used to rent hookers.

Steve




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On Tue, 6 May 2008 08:52:12 -0800, "SteveB"
toquerville,utah@zionvistas wrote:


"dpb" wrote in message ...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.


It would get me to vote NO. Why should tax dollars be use to lend tools?


Why should tax dollars be used to lend books?

--


Why not? They're used to rent hookers.

Steve

And it is money well spent.
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"SteveB" toquerville,utah@zionvistas wrote in
:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
Oren wrote in
news:j71v14dj4rb4c6oeij0gbabjn9h34lo0g1@ 4ax.com:

On 5 May 2008 12:53:51 GMT, Jim Yanik wrote:

I wonder;do USAF bases still have the auto hobby shops?

Nellis AFB did that last time I was there, about five years ago.
There were Federal prisoners on the base and the Arts and Crafts
Center had inmates working there.

The center allowed folks to come in, take a safety lesson and use a
complete wood shop. Inmates actually built my garage cabinets THAT
I purchased through the Arts and Craft Center.

The prison has closed and prisoners moved.


I wouldn't have thought they would just leave them there on the honor
system :-)


I was taken to the hobby shop on Nellis AFB circa 1968 by an airman
neighbor. We rounded a corner and came up on an SR71. I have never
seen one human being become so upset over something. We went on to
the hobby shop, and it was not until much later that I understood what
I had seen, and how serious a breach of security it was.

Steve



http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/lhf800.jpg

Hmmm, would be a tad intimidating seeing it come up behind you.
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On Mon, 5 May 2008 04:44:20 -0600, "Bob"
wrote:

:There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
:considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
:things as cement mixers, saws, etc.
:
:At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
:thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
:abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
:just don't care.
:
:For example:
:"I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
:"I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
:cut them pretty good".
:"Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
:miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
:"I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
:Etc - etc.
:
:Then there is the liability problem:
:"Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
:and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".
:
:The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
:anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?
:
:Just curious - Bob-tx
:
We've had a TLL in our town for many years and I occasionally use it.
It's less than a 2 minute bike ride from my house. I've never had a
problem with it, to be honest. The tools have always worked. There are
always two guys there and they are always friendly, if at times a little
harried.

They don't have everything. After many years they are aware of what
tools are worth having on hand and which ones aren't. Sometimes you have
to buy your own bit or blade, and that's just the way things go. Some
tools sort or require that. That's only happened to me one or two times.

There are certain tools that you are only apt to need once and never
again. For that a TLL is perfect.

Plus the guys behind the counter are knowledgable and many many times
I've bounced an idea off them and they've had a terrific response,
something I didn't know or wouldn't have thought of. It's great karma,
really. Try to bring the tool back in as good a condition as you found
it.

Dan
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On Mon, 5 May 2008 06:49:45 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

:Bob wrote:
: There was an article in Saturday's paper about our local library
: considering lending tools as well as books. It mentioned such
: things as cement mixers, saws, etc.
:
: At first, I thought it was an interesting idea, but on second
: thought I imagined how those tools could, and probably would, be
: abused by people who don't know how to use them or care for them, or
: just don't care.
:
: For example:
: "I didn't know you weren't supposed to cut tile with a skill saw".
: "I didn't realize there were nails in that old 2 X 4 - but the saw
: cut them pretty good".
: "Rain wasn't forecast, so I thought it would be okay to leave the
: miter saw outside since I was going to use it in the morning".
: "I thought I'd washed the concrete mixer pretty good - guess not".
: Etc - etc.
:
: Then there is the liability problem:
: "Your Honor, nobody showed me how to use that router well enough,
: and that's how I lost a finger, and why I am suing the city".
:
: The article said there are other libraries that loan tools. Is
: anyone aware of this practice and how it works in reality?
:
:
:The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole diggers,
:scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools, whatever.
:
:Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.

There used to be at least one rental store, down on San Pablo sort of
near Channing, IIRC. Are they closed now? They had stuff you wouldn't be
able to get at the TLL, I think.
:
:How about libraries loaning tables and chairs for a reception? Trucks or
:trailers for that one-time move? Heck, why not limousines for the prom?
:Small airplanes for drilling holes in the sky on a lazy weekend? Deep-sea
:fishing boats? Clowns for your three-year-old's birthday party?
:
:I am not in favor of buring books. Most library administrators, however,
:should be herded together then somebody strike a flint.

Redneck?? In Berkeley?? Takes all kinds.
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On Mon, 05 May 2008 07:20:41 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

:In article ,
: "Bill" wrote:
:
:
: Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries if
: they also provide services for the non-book readers.
:
:Like what? Eyeglass prescriptions? Auto insurance? A cosmetics counter?
:I thought a library was a place that loaned books. Why does it need to
ffer anything to the illiterate?

Open minded? Even bookworms do not live by books alone.


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Dan Musicant ) wrote in
:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 07:20:41 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

:In article ,
: "Bill" wrote:
:
:
: Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for
: libraries if they also provide services for the non-book readers.
:
:Like what? Eyeglass prescriptions? Auto insurance? A cosmetics
:counter? I thought a library was a place that loaned books. Why does
:it need to offer anything to the illiterate?

Open minded? Even bookworms do not live by books alone.


but non-education services/"tool loans" should be done by private
business,not government.
It employs people;they and the businesses pay taxes that go towards needed
community services like police,fire,schools.....

Government should NOT be competing with businesses.
And gov't is inefficient.It should be as small as possible.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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In article ,
Dan Musicant ) wrote:

On Mon, 05 May 2008 07:20:41 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

:In article ,
: "Bill" wrote:
:
:
: Anyway I think it is a good idea. Might get more people yes for libraries
: if
: they also provide services for the non-book readers.
:
:Like what? Eyeglass prescriptions? Auto insurance? A cosmetics counter?
:I thought a library was a place that loaned books. Why does it need to
ffer anything to the illiterate?

Open minded? Even bookworms do not live by books alone.


Right. That's why there are a lot of other buildings in town besides the
library. If I want a book, I go to the library. If I want something
else, I go somewhere else.

Hey, I have an idea. Maybe Starbucks should start offering bicycle
repair. You know, diversify a little to draw in more people. Sheesh. No,
I'm sorry, about some things I guess I'm pretty closed-minded.
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HeyBub wrote:

The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole diggers,
scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools, whatever.

Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.


Sounds par for the course in Berkeley.

I am not in favor of buring books. Most library
administrators, however, should be herded together
then somebody strike a flint.


Librarians are the most underpaid, underappreciated
of all public servants.

The quote from H. Rap Brown is that the solution to
the problems in the American Education System is to
tie the administrators to their desks, burn the
buildings down, and start over again. It is painful
that this solution would still work 40 years later.
But I will go into the inferno to save the Librarians.

Dick
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Dick Adams wrote:
HeyBub wrote:

The Berkeley library has a branch that loans tools. Post-hole diggers,
scaffolding, pressure washers, ladders, hand tools, whatever.

Consequently, there are no tool rental stores in Berkeley.


Sounds par for the course in Berkeley.

I am not in favor of buring books. Most library
administrators, however, should be herded together
then somebody strike a flint.


Librarians are the most underpaid, underappreciated
of all public servants.

The quote from H. Rap Brown is that the solution to
the problems in the American Education System is to
tie the administrators to their desks, burn the
buildings down, and start over again. It is painful
that this solution would still work 40 years later.
But I will go into the inferno to save the Librarians.

Dick


...one of the secret masters of
the world: a librarian. They
control information. Don't ever p**s one off.
- Spider Robinson

--
aem sends....
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