Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On May 4, 8:17�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. �Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. �It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. �I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. �The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. �Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. �I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. �The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. �I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. �Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. �(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. �So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) �It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? �it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. �What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? �And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

get a arborist to look at it, you probably cant pull it straight, but
may be able to trim it repeatedly to improve its appearance

On May 4, 7:17*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. *Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. *It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. *I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. *The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. *Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. *I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. *The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. *I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. *Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. *(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. *So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) *It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? *it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. *What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? *And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

You will kill or severly damage it by breaking its roots

On Sun, 04 May 2008 08:17:44 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

On Sun, 04 May 2008 08:17:44 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

Cut it down and plant a new tree.

Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in
my front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over
the street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty
tree but looks like hell. I think it did this because it was
competing with an oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by
the previous owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and
the other about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and
bought some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground
rod figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I
have a small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same
treatment to.) I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the
ground a few feet away from the tree, and started setting up the
cable. Gave SWMBO a wrench with instructions that she should tighten
the cable clamps while I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the
cable taut. I set my back against the main trunk, held the loose end
of the cable (I bought the cable long enough that I could loop it
around the ground rod and back to the tree) took a breath, pushed,
and... nothing. The damn tree is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop
in the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I
inched forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod
bent, and the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I
expected, which was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO
was standing well away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in the
ground, but bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual
topsoil, maybe 9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g.
safely) I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet
and invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

You can probably dig it up, but more likely to have success by pruning
it and keeping it pruned to get a better shape.
They sprout a lot of new brances, so pruning might not take too long.
Got a photo to post? If you take a photo to
extension service, they might be able to tell you what to do. Red-bud
and lilacs - I sure miss them.

On May 4, 9:02*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sun, 04 May 2008 08:17:44 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:





Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. *Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. *It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. *I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. *The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. *Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. *I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. *The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. *I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. *Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. *(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. *So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) *It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? *it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. *What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? *And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

Cut it down and plant a new tree.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


A tree with 4" AND 3" trunks and you expect to straighten it out with
a stake and a come-along or a truck? Did you just move to the
country from the big city?

At that size, it's either live with it, cut it down, or maybe trim it
a bit. With dual trunks and encroaching on a street light, it doesn't
sound particularly attractive to have in front of the house to begin
with. If it was some rare specimen, with a lot of digging and root
pruning, you MIGHT succeed in what you want to do, but even then there
is risk the tree won't survive.

On May 4, 8:17 am, Nate Nagel wrote:

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

First, make sure it's your tree. Those in the strip between the
sidewalk and street often belong to the local municipality.

Dig out the low side until you can rock it by hand, pull to the
desired angle via your preferred method (protecting the trunk where
your cable contacts), fill in the space under the roots with very damp
soil (to aid compaction), then stake it.

Then, heavily water it daily x7, then water "normally" daily x7.
-----

- gpsman

In article , Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners.

[snip amusing tale of much wasted time and effort]

ROTFLMAO! It took ten years for the tree to grow that way, and you think
you're going to pull it straight, just like that, in half an hour! Ain't gonna
happen.

You've already received two good suggestions: prune it to the shape you want,
or cut it down and replace it. If, however, you're still determined to pull it
straight, the only way you have any hope of doing it is a little bit at a
time. Sink a stout post in the ground about as far away from the tree as the
tree is tall. Attach a cable with a turnbuckle as far up the trunk of the tree
as you can, and just above ground level on the post. Pull the tree as far as
you can toward the post. Then leave it alone for at least a month. Repeat as
needed. It will take years.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners.


[snip amusing tale of much wasted time and effort]

ROTFLMAO! It took ten years for the tree to grow that way, and you think
you're going to pull it straight, just like that, in half an hour! Ain't gonna
happen.

You've already received two good suggestions: prune it to the shape you want,
or cut it down and replace it. If, however, you're still determined to pull it
straight, the only way you have any hope of doing it is a little bit at a
time. Sink a stout post in the ground about as far away from the tree as the
tree is tall. Attach a cable with a turnbuckle as far up the trunk of the tree
as you can, and just above ground level on the post. Pull the tree as far as
you can toward the post. Then leave it alone for at least a month. Repeat as
needed. It will take years.


I guess I just wasn't anticipating that I would be completely unable to
at least put a little tension on it and pull it at least an inch or two.
I understand that it takes a long time to do something like this and I
can deal with that. I don't want to cut down and start over as there
aren't a whole lot of "nice" trees in the front yard - I've got a paw
paw tree on the other side and a couple of evergreens, that's about it.
It looks like there were some nicer trees at one time, I took an
unidentified stump out yesterday and there's still the remains of a huge
cherry to be dealt with, but they are not there anymore. I guess a
redbud must be a pretty hard, dense wood? (I don't know, I'm far from a
tree expert.)

Pruning is not an option as the angle starts close above the ground; if
I cut off everything that was growing where I didn't want it to, there
wouldn't be any tree left at all. So I guess I am stuck with either
your method or else as others have suggested digging under the roots on
the street side and hoping I don't kill the damn thing.

I may try to take some pics later so you can see what I'm talking about.

why does it seem like the biggest part of owning a home is rectifying
all the stupid crap that the previous owners did? I think they meant
well but a lot of the green leafy stuff seems to have been planted
simply wherever without any thought on what it would encroach on as it
grew or what it'd be competing with.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Joseph Meehan wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

Hi all,


So what do I do with this tree?...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.



As someone suggested, often those trees are not yours. They may
belong to the city. If you mess it up, you could end up buying a new
mature (very expensive) tree. You also may find that the city will be
happy to come out and take care of the situation. It may not be to your
liking, but chances are good they would end up doing the same thing a
professional you would hire would do, only you may not need to pay for it.

My suggestion is to call in a professional and don't be surprised if
the suggestion involves replacing the tree.

I might consider staking the tree and slowly (over several years)
shorting the lines to slowly move it more upright. You might not like
the results however.


There is no sidewalk on my side of the street, and the utilities are
running down the property line between the back of the lot and the lot
one street over, so I don't think that the city really has any interest
in the tree. But I do understand your concern in that regard, I didn't
clarify in my original post.

But that brings me back to my original question - what to use for a
stake? a steel ground rod was no match for the tree, would some old
cyclone fence pipes be stiffer? I seem to remember being able to bend
them by hand (I took all of the non-perfect ones that were kicking
around to the dump last year in a fit of yard trash cleaning)

nate

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Nate Nagel wrote:
....
But that brings me back to my original question - what to use for a
stake? ...

RR tie buried about 5' deep _might_ do.

You'll still be better off consulting extension office (for free) or
arborist (for hire). Even if you could eventually retrain it in the
direction you'd like, in the time it took a new specimen would reach the
size of this one and it's likely the previous experiment would never be
fully satisfactory, anyway.

--

clipped



why does it seem like the biggest part of owning a home is rectifying
all the stupid crap that the previous owners did? I think they meant
well but a lot of the green leafy stuff seems to have been planted
simply wherever without any thought on what it would encroach on as it
grew or what it'd be competing with.

nate

An awful lot of that going on ) Folks fill up space with small trees
and don't think about tomorrow. We have neighbors on one side who have
live oaks 10 feet from the building. They spread, easily, 50 feet from
the trunk. On the other side, neighbors have nasty pines planted along
the property line about 3 feet apart. They are now about 40 feet tall
and pushing our sprinklers around with their roots. The builders didn't
have to worry about them, and the owners apparently want to wait until
they are much larger and more expensive to do anything about them.

Nate Nagel writes:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in
my front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over
the street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty
tree but looks like hell. I think it did this because it was
competing with an oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by
the previous owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and
the other about 3" in diameter.

I don't believe you will have success moving the 3" part without
digging out the root ball. You can go higher up (maybe at 2 inches)
and bend that a bit. If you try it, I wouldn't do more than 1 quarter
inch at a time. Stake it, bend it a bit, give it a few months for the
stress to work out, then bend it again.

Put a picture online somewhere and post a link.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , Nate Nagel wrote:


Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners.



[snip amusing tale of much wasted time and effort]

ROTFLMAO! It took ten years for the tree to grow that way, and you think
you're going to pull it straight, just like that, in half an hour! Ain't gonna
happen.

You've already received two good suggestions: prune it to the shape you want,
or cut it down and replace it. If, however, you're still determined to pull it
straight, the only way you have any hope of doing it is a little bit at a
time. Sink a stout post in the ground about as far away from the tree as the
tree is tall. Attach a cable with a turnbuckle as far up the trunk of the tree
as you can, and just above ground level on the post. Pull the tree as far as
you can toward the post. Then leave it alone for at least a month. Repeat as
needed. It will take years.



It will break, probably, before it will bend. Even if it could be
pulled straight, the amount of tension required
would probably cut into the trunk and kill the tree. Redbuds don't have
an especially long life, so considering
a replacement is probably the best solutions. If one trunk is cut down
this spring, there might be enough sprouts
to give a shapely tree in a few years. Sounds like a lost cause.

dpb wrote:
....
... Even if you could eventually retrain it ...

And, as someone else pointed out, a redbud isn't that unusual of a
specimen nor costly planting, has a (relatively) short lifespan and
unless you go to great difficulty in making a sling of sufficient
strength and size to use around the branches where you're pulling, the
cable will just act as a saw and cut through them w/ time effectively
girdling it rather than bending such a large branch, anyway...

All in all, pruning or a new specimen are your only (realistic) options
in all likelihood.

--

on 5/4/2008 10:34 AM Nate Nagel said the following:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Nate Nagel
wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is)
in my front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging
over the street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very
pretty tree but looks like hell. I think it did this because it was
competing with an oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed
by the previous owners.


[snip amusing tale of much wasted time and effort]

ROTFLMAO! It took ten years for the tree to grow that way, and you
think you're going to pull it straight, just like that, in half an
hour! Ain't gonna happen.

You've already received two good suggestions: prune it to the shape
you want, or cut it down and replace it. If, however, you're still
determined to pull it straight, the only way you have any hope of
doing it is a little bit at a time. Sink a stout post in the ground
about as far away from the tree as the tree is tall. Attach a cable
with a turnbuckle as far up the trunk of the tree as you can, and
just above ground level on the post. Pull the tree as far as you can
toward the post. Then leave it alone for at least a month. Repeat as
needed. It will take years.


I guess I just wasn't anticipating that I would be completely unable
to at least put a little tension on it and pull it at least an inch or
two. I understand that it takes a long time to do something like this
and I can deal with that. I don't want to cut down and start over as
there aren't a whole lot of "nice" trees in the front yard - I've got
a paw paw tree on the other side and a couple of evergreens, that's
about it. It looks like there were some nicer trees at one time, I
took an unidentified stump out yesterday and there's still the remains
of a huge cherry to be dealt with, but they are not there anymore. I
guess a redbud must be a pretty hard, dense wood? (I don't know, I'm
far from a tree expert.)

Pruning is not an option as the angle starts close above the ground;
if I cut off everything that was growing where I didn't want it to,
there wouldn't be any tree left at all. So I guess I am stuck with
either your method or else as others have suggested digging under the
roots on the street side and hoping I don't kill the damn thing.

I may try to take some pics later so you can see what I'm talking about.

why does it seem like the biggest part of owning a home is rectifying
all the stupid crap that the previous owners did? I think they meant
well but a lot of the green leafy stuff seems to have been planted
simply wherever without any thought on what it would encroach on as it
grew or what it'd be competing with.

nate


You might try digging a bowl shaped hole around the truck and then flood
it so that the water gets down to the roots. Straightening might be
easier with the roots in mud, rather than dry dirt. If you have a
pressure washer, digging and flooding can be done in one operation.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous owners.
The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other about 3" in
diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod figuring
that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a small
ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.) I cut the
ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet away from
the tree, and started setting up the cable. Gave SWMBO a wrench with
instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while I was pushing
the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. I set my back against the
main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought the cable long
enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and back to the tree)
took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. The damn tree is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I expected, which
was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO was standing well
away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in the ground, but bent
right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe 9" to a
foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front yard,
but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an angle. What
can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod? Rebar? And how do
I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely) I'm thinking two
cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle, alternately being shortened,
or maybe I should just bite the bullet and invest in a good, heavy
come-along.


I vote for starting with a new planting. Clip a few small budding sprigs
off and dip the ends in Root Tone. Then stick each one in a flower pot with
some sterile soil in it and put a large clear jar over each sprig until
summer comes. Moisten the soil occasionally. If all goes well the sprigs
will grow some roots. Keep them growing in the flower pots until the roots
are fairly developed and can handle transplanting. Eventually you can
transplant them into the ground and fertilize them from time to time. With
good maintenance they will grow better than the mother.

Shifting the tree like you plan will not be to your satisfaction and may
cause long term damage. It does sound pretty comical though so if you
continue with attempting to move the tree, have a neighbor video tape it and
post it on YouTube.

http://www.33rdderryscouts.com/Resou...gebuilding.pdf

Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in
my front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over
the street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty
tree but looks like hell. I think it did this because it was
competing with an oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed
by the previous owners. The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4"
and the other about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and
bought some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground
rod figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I
have a small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same
treatment to.) I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the
ground a few feet away from the tree, and started setting up the
cable. Gave SWMBO a wrench with instructions that she should tighten
the cable clamps while I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the
cable taut. I set my back against the main trunk, held the loose end
of the cable (I bought the cable long enough that I could loop it
around the ground rod and back to the tree) took a breath, pushed,
and... nothing. The damn tree is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop
in the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. Carefully I
inched forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod
bent, and the cable slipped off of it. (this is better than what I
expected, which was the cable snapping and whipping around. So SWMBO
was standing well away from all this mess.) It had a good bite in
the ground, but bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to
actual topsoil, maybe 9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g.
safely) I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet
and invest in a good, heavy come-along.

I doubt you'll be able to straighten it without digging out one side;
however, you should be able to bend it easily enough and - given time - you
should be able to get the part above your bending point straight.

If you want to bend it, this is what I would do...

1. Get some 1/2" dacron rope. Not nylon, not hemp, not the floating
garbage, DACRON.

2. Dig an angled, 4' deep hole as far away as the tree as possible and set
an 8' 4x4 in it at a 45 degree angle leaning away from the tree. Cut a
notch/groove around the top of the 4x4 maybe 3" from the end.

3. Take a couple of turns of the 1/2" line around the 4x4 in the notch.
Make them loose so that when you tie the ends you have loops about 8" in
diameter that hang

4. Make similar loops around the tree trunk as high up as possible and make
more of them...enough so that when they are pushed together they cover 6-8"
of the trunk so that the stress that will be applied is spread over a larger
area and does no or less injury to the tree..

5. Tie one end of a long length of the 1/2" line to one of the loops -
either those on the tree or those on the post, doesn't matter.

6. Now run your 1/2" line thru the other loops and back. Do it 3-4 times

7. You now have a rudimentary block and tackle with tons of mechanical
leverage...start hauling on the bitter end. The tree WILL bend. Since
there are no sheaves, there will be a lot of friction. That is good as it
enables you to pull on something other than the bitter end and have things
stay put while you then pull out the bitter end. If you happen to have some
blocks, NP in using them, this way saves $$ if you don't have.

8. Once you have bent the trunk as much as possible or practicable, tie off
the bitter end to the block & tackle line parts.

9. Take some smaller line - 1/4" nylon would be good - and use it to whip
together the loops left in #3 & #4 above starting at the part closest to
your rudimentary block and tackle. As you pull this line taut you are
closing the loops and that will bend the trunk a bit more. You may not be
able to totally "whip" the loops which is OK, do as much as possible and tie
off the end of the whipping line.

10. After a month or two, repeat the above and see if you can bend the trunk
a bit more; maybe yes, maybe no...the trunk needs to grow a bit to help hold
it in the bent shape.

You said there were two trunks - don't try to bend both with one setup, do
them individually.

If you can't bend it as above, let me know and I'll tell you how to rig a
Spanish burton (purchase on purchase)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Joseph Meehan wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Joseph Meehan wrote:
..

But that brings me back to my original question - what to use for a
stake? a steel ground rod was no match for the tree, would some old
cyclone fence pipes be stiffer? I seem to remember being able to
bend them by hand (I took all of the non-perfect ones that were
kicking around to the dump last year in a fit of yard trash cleaning)

nate

--

Well I don't think you can do it all at once. The best you could
do would be to put some tension on it, maybe with little or no
movement of the tree. Then every few months tighten it up a little. Allow
the tree to slowly change direction. Consider this a 5 year
project, it may take longer.

However my suggestion remains, hire a professional and don't be
surprised if the answer is to replace it.

100% support for this!

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...

. What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?

I used a fence Tee post tring to train a redbud sapling. I left it on for
over two years and as soon as I released it the little redbud went right
back to where it wanted to go. I think they have a mind of their own. RM~

PS, I did have a tee post driver, would hate to have to put one in with a
hammer. Good luck.

Nate Nagel wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Nate Nagel wrote:

Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners.


[snip amusing tale of much wasted time and effort]

ROTFLMAO! It took ten years for the tree to grow that way, and you think
you're going to pull it straight, just like that, in half an hour! Ain't gonna
happen.

You've already received two good suggestions: prune it to the shape you want,
or cut it down and replace it. If, however, you're still determined to pull it
straight, the only way you have any hope of doing it is a little bit at a
time. Sink a stout post in the ground about as far away from the tree as the
tree is tall. Attach a cable with a turnbuckle as far up the trunk of the tree
as you can, and just above ground level on the post. Pull the tree as far as
you can toward the post. Then leave it alone for at least a month. Repeat as
needed. It will take years.


I guess I just wasn't anticipating that I would be completely unable to
at least put a little tension on it and pull it at least an inch or two.
I understand that it takes a long time to do something like this and I
can deal with that. I don't want to cut down and start over as there
aren't a whole lot of "nice" trees in the front yard - I've got a paw
paw tree on the other side and a couple of evergreens, that's about it.
It looks like there were some nicer trees at one time, I took an
unidentified stump out yesterday and there's still the remains of a huge
cherry to be dealt with, but they are not there anymore. I guess a
redbud must be a pretty hard, dense wood? (I don't know, I'm far from a
tree expert.)

Pruning is not an option as the angle starts close above the ground; if
I cut off everything that was growing where I didn't want it to, there
wouldn't be any tree left at all. So I guess I am stuck with either
your method or else as others have suggested digging under the roots on
the street side and hoping I don't kill the damn thing.

I may try to take some pics later so you can see what I'm talking about.

why does it seem like the biggest part of owning a home is rectifying
all the stupid crap that the previous owners did? I think they meant
well but a lot of the green leafy stuff seems to have been planted
simply wherever without any thought on what it would encroach on as it
grew or what it'd be competing with.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Trees will grow and adapt to obstacles (like growing around fences), but
it's slow. If you put in a good ground anchor like a screw in one and do
the turnbuckle thing tightening it a bit each month it should straighten
out over time. Watering the ground heavily might also help you adjust
the root positioning a bit each time.

From the sound of it your previous homeowner should have been living in
a mud hut instead. Perhaps they are now...

Norminn wrote:

clipped



why does it seem like the biggest part of owning a home is rectifying
all the stupid crap that the previous owners did? I think they meant
well but a lot of the green leafy stuff seems to have been planted
simply wherever without any thought on what it would encroach on as it
grew or what it'd be competing with.

nate

An awful lot of that going on ) Folks fill up space with small trees
and don't think about tomorrow. We have neighbors on one side who have
live oaks 10 feet from the building. They spread, easily, 50 feet from
the trunk. On the other side, neighbors have nasty pines planted along
the property line about 3 feet apart. They are now about 40 feet tall
and pushing our sprinklers around with their roots. The builders didn't
have to worry about them, and the owners apparently want to wait until
they are much larger and more expensive to do anything about them.

You can trim neighbors trees that hang over your property line, and the
same would apply to their trespassing roots. If they are damaging your
property I'd suggest sending them a certified letter documenting the
damage and asking them to rectify the problem (or have your lawyer send
it). After that you're good yo go just cutting them off at the property
line.

On May 4, 9:17*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Hi all,

I've got a redbud tree (at least that's what I've been told it is) in my
front yard. *Unfortunately it is growing at an angle, hanging over the
street and actually around a streetlight. *It is a very pretty tree but
looks like hell. *I think it did this because it was competing with an
oversized elderberry bush that was left untrimmed by the previous
owners. *The redbud has two main trunks, one about 4" and the other
about 3" in diameter.

So yesterday I figured I would try to pull the tree straight and bought
some cable, clamps, and instead of a stake I bought a ground rod
figuring that a typical wooden stake wouldn't hold this tree (I have a
small ironwood in the back yard that I'm doing the same treatment to.)
I cut the ground rod in half, drove one half into the ground a few feet
away from the tree, and started setting up the cable. *Gave SWMBO a
wrench with instructions that she should tighten the cable clamps while
I was pushing the tree upright and pulling the cable taut. *I set my
back against the main trunk, held the loose end of the cable (I bought
the cable long enough that I could loop it around the ground rod and
back to the tree) took a breath, pushed, and... nothing. *The damn tree
is STIFF.

Then things got stupid. *I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. *Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. *(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. *So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) *It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

So what do I do with this tree? *it's the prettiest tree in my front
yard, but looks very ghetto as it's been allowed to grow at such an
angle. *What can I use as a stake that's stronger than a ground rod?
Rebar? *And how do I pull it without using a pickup truck (e.g. safely)
I'm thinking two cables, each with a turnbuckle in the middle,
alternately being shortened, or maybe I should just bite the bullet and
invest in a good, heavy come-along.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

I have no advice at all, but had to look up what a 'SWMBO' was!
Maybe it's an American thing, but I've never heard of it here in
Canada before. Good one!

KD

On May 6, 9:14�am, nick hull wrote:
In article
,

�KD wrote:
Then things got stupid. �I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. �Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. �(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. �So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) �It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

Screw in a ground anchor at an angle so the cable pulls STRAIGHT in line
with the anchor. �Look at how the phone co puts guy wires on their poles.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

overall putting tension on the tree is a bad idea.

imagine people walking by, tension device perhaps messed with earlier
by kids snaps, or just breaks for unknown reasons.

major lawsuit

wrote:
On May 6, 9:14�am, nick hull wrote:
In article
,

�KD wrote:
Then things got stupid. �I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. �Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. �(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. �So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) �It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.
Screw in a ground anchor at an angle so the cable pulls STRAIGHT in line
with the anchor. �Look at how the phone co puts guy wires on their poles.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

overall putting tension on the tree is a bad idea.

imagine people walking by, tension device perhaps messed with earlier
by kids snaps, or just breaks for unknown reasons.

major lawsuit

Yeah, just imagine! Sheesh!!!

It isn't that good of an idea simply because it probably won't work with
very satisfactory results and will take a lot of time by which he could
have a new planting reach nearly the same size. But worry over
liability would be _way_ down the list.

--

In article
,
KD wrote:

Then things got stupid. *I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. *Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. *(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. *So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) *It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.

Screw in a ground anchor at an angle so the cable pulls STRAIGHT in line
with the anchor. Look at how the phone co puts guy wires on their poles.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On May 6, 8:45Â*am, dpb wrote:
wrote:
On May 6, 9:14�am, nick hull wrote:
In article
,

�KD wrote:
Then things got stupid. �I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. �Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. �(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. �So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) �It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.
Screw in a ground anchor at an angle so the cable pulls STRAIGHT in line
with the anchor. �Look at how the phone co puts guy wires on their poles.

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

overall putting tension on the tree is a bad idea.

imagine people walking by, tension device perhaps messed with earlier
by kids snaps, or just breaks for unknown reasons.

major lawsuit

Yeah, just imagine! Â*Sheesh!!!

It isn't that good of an idea simply because it probably won't work with
very satisfactory results and will take a lot of time by which he could
have a new planting reach nearly the same size. Â*But worry over
liability would be _way_ down the list.

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

perhaps liability would be down your list.

but your homeowners insurance might not cover intential creation of
such a hazard.

people sue for anything.

would you want a 5 or 10 year case dragging thru the courts?

wrote:
On May 6, 8:45 am, dpb wrote:
wrote:
On May 6, 9:14�am, nick hull wrote:
In article
,
�KD wrote:
Then things got stupid. �I pulled the truck around front, tied a loop in
the cable, and dropped it over the trailer hitch. �Carefully I inched
forward, but as soon as the cable pulled taut, the ground rod bent, and
the cable slipped off of it. �(this is better than what I expected,
which was the cable snapping and whipping around. �So SWMBO was standing
well away from all this mess.) �It had a good bite in the ground, but
bent right where the clay under-soil gave way to actual topsoil, maybe
9" to a foot below the surface.
Screw in a ground anchor at an angle so the cable pulls STRAIGHT in line
with the anchor. �Look at how the phone co puts guy wires on their poles.
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
overall putting tension on the tree is a bad idea.
imagine people walking by, tension device perhaps messed with earlier
by kids snaps, or just breaks for unknown reasons.
major lawsuit
Yeah, just imagine! Sheesh!!!

It isn't that good of an idea simply because it probably won't work with
very satisfactory results and will take a lot of time by which he could
have a new planting reach nearly the same size. But worry over
liability would be _way_ down the list.

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

perhaps liability would be down your list.

but your homeowners insurance might not cover intential creation of
such a hazard.

people sue for anything.

would you want a 5 or 10 year case dragging thru the courts?

The problem is you're again making mountains out of nothing but
conjecture...

--