Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

On Apr 29, 9:09�pm, Windswept@Home (Jim) wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. �But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. �Won't work.

SOLUTION �#1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: �More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

And then there's all those people with no cable provider or a monopoly
charging high rates for basic--and there's still a lot of people happy
with the news and a couple of ball games a week.
I hooked up my mother's digital and found out that the local PBS
stations run 2-4 digital channels each--and the CBS station's digital
signal is such a sparrow fart that it's out most of the time. But as
soon as the salemen hear about it, the boost should come.

"Jim" Windswept@Home wrote in message
...
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

it's thank you, bill clinton. the analog spectrum was sold on his watch to
balance his budget. of course, it's unlikely that any money actually
changed hands at that point. and did he get what they're worth today due
to providers vying for the spectrum as opposed to inflation? probably not.
the american people get screwed again.

Jim wrote:

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.


When my electronics are outdated, I'm quitting. I am not going to buy
another computer to get
a copy of the current version of Windows so I can recieve 100x more
advertising than when I
started out on the internet. I'll just do without it. My current
computer isn't half as good as the
Micron I got in 1994 with Win 3 something. Got Win 95, spent a year
fixing it, got Win 95b
and that machine rocked!

I have an old Sony portable that might be about 40 years old. Last time
I used it was when we
had a camper - it could pick up three stations anywhere. Too big for a
paperweight but I can't
part with it. Should put it on the shelf with hubby's Commodore 64.
Gee, even the CD's I saved
for posterity are outdated.

When incandescant bulbs are gone, I may go back to kerosene lamps, sew
until sunset and then
go listen to the crickets and tree frogs.

Jim wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to
it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was
daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs.
It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to
the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded
just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or
video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same
channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I have satt, but it goes out whenever the wind blows the trees, so I
also keep a roof antenna. I got the converter as a backup, since my TVs
work fine, and I can't bear the thought of junking working equipment if
I don't have to. I got the converters now, instead of next year, because
of the coupons. And if Dish raises their rates again, my satt may just
be going bye-bye.



--
aem sends...

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:53:35 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

Jim wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to
it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was
daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs.
It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to
the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded
just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or
video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same
channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I have satt, but it goes out whenever the wind blows the trees, so I
also keep a roof antenna. I got the converter as a backup, since my TVs
work fine, and I can't bear the thought of junking working equipment if
I don't have to. I got the converters now, instead of next year, because
of the coupons. And if Dish raises their rates again, my satt may just
be going bye-bye.

Sorry, but my mileage varied.

I hooked up the antenna to the converter and the coax cable form the
converter to the VCR as the instructions dictated, set the channel to
3 as directed, but no go.

Hell, google the Internet. You'll learn that you need a VCR with a
ATSC tuner within for it to work.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:12:04 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

When incandescant bulbs are gone, I may go back to kerosene lamps, sew
until sunset and then
go listen to the crickets and tree frogs.

Kerosene is $7.00 a gallon at home depot

...as I hear the crickets chirp!..

Jack wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:53:35 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

Jim wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.
Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to
it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was
daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs.
It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to
the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded
just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or
video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same
channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I have satt, but it goes out whenever the wind blows the trees, so I
also keep a roof antenna. I got the converter as a backup, since my TVs
work fine, and I can't bear the thought of junking working equipment if
I don't have to. I got the converters now, instead of next year, because
of the coupons. And if Dish raises their rates again, my satt may just
be going bye-bye.

Sorry, but my mileage varied.

I hooked up the antenna to the converter and the coax cable form the
converter to the VCR as the instructions dictated, set the channel to
3 as directed, but no go.

Hell, google the Internet. You'll learn that you need a VCR with a
ATSC tuner within for it to work.
What can I say? It worked fine for me. I suspect you had something set
wrong. Output channel menu choice on converter box, channel selector and
output channel on VCR, channel selector on TV. The channel numbers on
both ends of each cable need to match. If your converter/VCR/TV also
have the red/yellow/white jacks, you may have better luck with those.

I looked on Google. The first half-dozen links I looked at agreed with
what I found when I tried it- it does work.

--
aem sends...

On Apr 29, 10:05�pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
wrote:
"Jim" Windswept@Home wrote in message

...





Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. �But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. �Won't work.

SOLUTION �#1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: �More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

it's thank you, bill clinton. � the analog spectrum was sold on his watch to
balance his budget. �of course, it's unlikely that any money actually
changed hands at that point. � and did he get what they're worth today due
to providers vying for the spectrum as opposed to inflation? � probably not.
the american people get screwed again.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, in my mother's case she's getting nearly twice the channels,
all sharp, and with all the digital pluses--guides and program info.
Not a bad deal for the $20 over the rebate card.

On Apr 29, 11:25*pm, aemeijers wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:53:35 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

Jim wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. *But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. *Won't work.

SOLUTION *#1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: *More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.
Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to
it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was
daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs..
It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to
the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded
just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or
video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same
channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I have satt, but it goes out whenever the wind blows the trees, so I
also keep a roof antenna. I got the converter as a backup, since my TVs
work fine, and I can't bear the thought of junking working equipment if
I don't have to. I got the converters now, instead of next year, because
of the coupons. And if Dish raises their rates again, my satt may just
be going bye-bye.

Sorry, but my mileage varied.

I hooked up the antenna to the converter and the coax cable form the
converter to the VCR as the instructions dictated, set the channel to
3 as directed, but no go.

Hell, google the Internet. *You'll learn that you need a VCR with a
ATSC tuner within for it to work.

What can I say? It worked fine for me. I suspect you had something set
wrong. Output channel menu choice on converter box, channel selector and
output channel on VCR, *channel selector on TV. The channel numbers on
both ends of each cable need to match. If your converter/VCR/TV also
have the red/yellow/white jacks, you may have better luck with those.

I looked on Google. The first half-dozen links I looked at agreed with
what I found when I tried it- it does work.

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I also don't see why the converters will not function with any VCR.
They output an NTSC signal designed to work with any NTSC tuner.
Whether the tuner is in the TV or the VCR shouldn't matter. But
unless the converter box can change the VCR channels, it won't be able
to do timed recordings, which is definitely an issue.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:09:53 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled Windswept@Home (Jim), to say:

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.


I could give a ****.

If my current rig won't work for me, I'll buy new stuff and throw
what I have now into the landfill.

My new car will go 130MPH, gets 20MPG at $4.00 a gallon, and I
eat salmon at least twice a week.


Read 'em and weep, boys.

--
Life is too short to play cheap guitars.

Jim wrote:

Thank you, Big Brother.

Are you also upset they won't let you take your horse & buggy on the
freeway?

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:09:53 GMT, Windswept@Home (Jim) wrote:

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

They didn't tell you that because it isn't true. The output from a
converter shouldn't pose any problem for a vcr.

Oren wrote:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:12:04 -0400, Norminn
wrote:



When incandescant bulbs are gone, I may go back to kerosene lamps, sew
until sunset and then
go listen to the crickets and tree frogs.



Kerosene is $7.00 a gallon at home depot

..as I hear the crickets chirp!..



How many kwh per gallon of kerosene? )

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:27 GMT, AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

"Jim" Windswept@Home wrote in message
...
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

it's thank you, bill clinton. the analog spectrum was sold on his watch to
balance his budget. of course, it's unlikely that any money actually
changed hands at that point. and did he get what they're worth today due
to providers vying for the spectrum as opposed to inflation? probably not.
the american people get screwed again.


Somebody is watching WAY too much Fox News.


--
Walking Shtick
"I'll spit in your eye."
http://www.jdmpics.com/walking-stick.htm

In article ,
Walking Shtick wrote:


Somebody is watching WAY too much Fox News.

The FCC rules mandating the changeover were published and
implemented in '97.

Walking Shtick wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:27 GMT, AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

"Jim" Windswept@Home wrote in message
...
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.
it's thank you, bill clinton. the analog spectrum was sold on his watch to
balance his budget. of course, it's unlikely that any money actually
changed hands at that point. and did he get what they're worth today due
to providers vying for the spectrum as opposed to inflation? probably not.
the american people get screwed again.


Somebody is watching WAY too much Fox News.


What would Foxnews have to do with it? Clinton authorized the spectrum
sale for the reason the OP described:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-century-.html

And the comment from the Motorola guy is accurate. The "auction" is
nothing but smoke and mirrors because it is nothing but a prepaid tax
which operators of the spectrum will need to collect from the users. So
taxes don't go down at all.

George wrote:

Walking Shtick wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:05:27 GMT, AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:

"Jim" Windswept@Home wrote in message
...

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.

SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.

it's thank you, bill clinton. the analog spectrum was sold on his
watch to balance his budget. of course, it's unlikely that any money
actually changed hands at that point. and did he get what they're
worth today due to providers vying for the spectrum as opposed to
inflation? probably not. the american people get screwed again.



Somebody is watching WAY too much Fox News.

What would Foxnews have to do with it? Clinton authorized the spectrum
sale for the reason the OP described:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-century-.html


And the comment from the Motorola guy is accurate. The "auction" is
nothing but smoke and mirrors because it is nothing but a prepaid tax
which operators of the spectrum will need to collect from the users. So
taxes don't go down at all.

That's a ridiculous article in my estimation. It starts out with the
accusation that it was auctioned to balance the budget deficit. The
thing is you had to sell those off some kind of way. What are you
supposed to do with them? Just let anybody claim them, just by the fact
that they'd have the equipment? How would you settle ownership?

--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

aemeijers wrote:

Jim wrote:

Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. Won't work.
SOLUTION #1: Get a new DVD recorder or DVD recorder/VHS combo that
has a digital tuner.

SOLUTION #2: Wait until July and get a special digital converter that
is not eligible for the govt. rebate.

SOLUTION #3: Subscribe to cable, if it's available in your area, or a
satellite dish.

RESULT: More old electronic junk thrown into the landfill and more
expense for the consumer, many of whom are elderly and on fixed
incomes, or else they wouldn't still be using antennas.

Thank you, Big Brother.


Oh, stuff and nonsense. VCR mostly could care less what feeds signal to
it. Only thing I have EVER seen that didn't work right was
daisy-chaining a DVD player and a VCR, for an old TV with single inputs.
It came up in black and white, due to to copy-protect on the DVD.

Just for laughs, 2 minutes ago I hooked a cable from my converter box to
the 'line2' inputs on my 5-year old Sony VCR- it worked and recorded
just fine and played back just fine. Were you using an RF connection, or
video cables? If RF, did you have the converter and VCR set on the same
channel? (Usually a toggle between 3 and 4)

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs. I know some old recorded programs
are fun to archive, with the commercial breaks and all intact, and the
watching a broadcast show from ten years ago is like time traveling.
What I did was transfer a couple of these things over to DVD. I can't
see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their
image. Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.


--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

In article ,
Alric Knebel wrote:

That's a ridiculous article in my estimation. It starts out with the
accusation that it was auctioned to balance the budget deficit. The
thing is you had to sell those off some kind of way. What are you
supposed to do with them? Just let anybody claim them, just by the fact
that they'd have the equipment? How would you settle ownership?

You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current
model of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them
for free to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of
other possibilities if they had wanted to go that way.
If you look at the history, the auction was largely a justification
for taking the spectrum away from TV and not staying with a dual system
for a few more years.

On Apr 29, 9:53*pm, David Johnston wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:09:53 GMT, Windswept@Home (Jim) wrote:
Yeah, if you're one of the 15% who still have an antenna and analog
TV, it works great. *But God forbid you should have a VCR or DVD
recorder that was made prior to 3/07. *Won't work.

They didn't tell you that because it isn't true. *The output from a
converter shouldn't pose any problem for a vcr. *

Only 2 downsides that I can see to using a digital converter box with
an analog-tuner VCR:

- No more watching one channel while recording another.

- Not possible to program your VCR to record shows on different
channels at different times. You gotta leave the VCR on channel 3 (or
4). Unless they start selling converter boxes that you can program to
change channels at specific times, or you buy a fancy universal remote
that can learn your converter box codes and do the job for you.

Jerry

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Alric Knebel wrote:


That's a ridiculous article in my estimation. It starts out with the
accusation that it was auctioned to balance the budget deficit. The
thing is you had to sell those off some kind of way. What are you
supposed to do with them? Just let anybody claim them, just by the fact
that they'd have the equipment? How would you settle ownership?


You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current
model of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them
for free to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of
other possibilities if they had wanted to go that way.
If you look at the history, the auction was largely a justification
for taking the spectrum away from TV and not staying with a dual system
for a few more years.

What do you mean, a dual system? I'm not up on the term you're using,
and since it's so specific, it must be critical to understanding your
point.

And what is the current model for controlling that part of the spectrum?
I thought that part of the spectrum was sold off?

--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

On Apr 30, 10:22*am, Alric Knebel wrote:

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs. *I know some old recorded programs
are fun to archive, with the commercial breaks and all intact, and the
watching a broadcast show from ten years ago is like time traveling.
What I did was transfer a couple of these things over to DVD. *I can't
see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their
image. *Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.

I use my VCR to tape stuff to watch later. It's cheap, I already have
the
stuff, and the technology is adequate to my purpose. Once I've
watched
the show, I reuse the tape for something else. Amusing though Dirty
Jobs is, I can't see archiving them for posterity.

That said, when my VCR dies I'll probably get a digital recorder of
some
sort, just so I don't get "the look" from the kid at Best Buy.

Cindy Hamilton

In article ,
Alric Knebel wrote:


You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current
model of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them
for free to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of
other possibilities if they had wanted to go that way.
If you look at the history, the auction was largely a justification
for taking the spectrum away from TV and not staying with a dual system
for a few more years.

What do you mean, a dual system? I'm not up on the term you're using,
and since it's so specific, it must be critical to understanding your
point.

In the current system (during the transition) we have the old
system and the new both being used. At the timeCongress was considering
the changeover, we could have just as easily kept both going if there
was a desire on the part of Congress.



And what is the current model for controlling that part of the spectrum?
I thought that part of the spectrum was sold off?

The original part I was replying to was the alternatives available
when the Congress was making the law on how to handle that spectrum way
back in the day. Thus, they could have, if they wanted to at that time,
mandated that the spectrum remain in the control of the government and
that it licensed much like it was in the past. Legally (probably not
politically) they could probably suspend the auction by refunding
downpayments, etc., right up until the spectrum is actually vacated and
transfered next Feb.

wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:


I can't
see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their
image. Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.


In my case, it is movies that are on VHS and never made it to DVD.
BTW the "losing image" problem is very much over hyped. When I finally
trashed my last Beta machine I transferred some tapes I made in 1976

Do you have a lot of those movies on VHS? I stopped buying them when I
realized you just can't prevent stuff from happening to them. I
remember exactly what movie it was that made me see it was a hopeless
collector's investment. It was THE GODFATHER. After a couple of years
after initially watching the tape I bought, I watched it again, and sure
enough, there was this glitch in it. I owned at that time about twenty
movies on VHS. I decided then that the movies wouldn't really last that
long, and their was the fullscreen formatting, and image quality just
isn't that good, and I could see on the distant horizon this DVD thing
coming. So I just stopped investing in the tapes. And to this day,
DVDs are still a bang, with all the extra features and the commentary
and so on. It's a movie buff's dream come true.

Anyway, you must have some pretty obscure stuff to commit to holding on
to them like that. Would you mind if I ask what those titles are? I'm
just curious.

--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:54:46 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:


I can't
see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their
image. Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.


In my case, it is movies that are on VHS and never made it to DVD.
BTW the "losing image" problem is very much over hyped. When I finally
trashed my last Beta machine I transferred some tapes I made in 1976

Do you have a lot of those movies on VHS? I stopped buying them when I
realized you just can't prevent stuff from happening to them. I
remember exactly what movie it was that made me see it was a hopeless
collector's investment. It was THE GODFATHER. After a couple of years
after initially watching the tape I bought, I watched it again, and sure
enough, there was this glitch in it. I owned at that time about twenty
movies on VHS. I decided then that the movies wouldn't really last that
long, and their was the fullscreen formatting, and image quality just
isn't that good, and I could see on the distant horizon this DVD thing
coming. So I just stopped investing in the tapes. And to this day,
DVDs are still a bang, with all the extra features and the commentary
and so on. It's a movie buff's dream come true.

Anyway, you must have some pretty obscure stuff to commit to holding on
to them like that. Would you mind if I ask what those titles are? I'm
just curious.

I'm guessing most of these movies can be found online (illegally,
though as I understand it it's legal if you own a "hard copy"? Or is
that a myth? I'm constantly coming across rare and forgotten stuff on
bittorrent. Maybe they're available legally as well if you do a
thorough search, though that may be cost-prohibitive).

Thinking back, it seems funny to me how quickly I went from being a
frequent vcr user to completely abandoning it (having used it once in
the last three years). It's still sitting there but the actual unit
looks outdated and the tapes seem big and awkward.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs

A lot of us electronically-clueless elderly people on fixed incomes
are still using VCRs.

But I fear the same may be the case with DVD recorders that have NTSC.

The people in this thread have said that if the digital converters
work with analog TVs, then they should work with analog VCRs and DVDs.

Makes perfect sense. Maybe I screwed up yesterday and will try again
today, because the TV reception is GREAT! I was somehow able to get
that to work.

Meanwhile a cheap, a DVD/VHS combo (with NTSC) is due to arrive this
week. I ordered it before knowing the hassle that was forthcoming.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:

On Apr 30, 10:22 am, Alric Knebel wrote:


I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs. I know some old recorded programs
are fun to archive, with the commercial breaks and all intact, and the
watching a broadcast show from ten years ago is like time traveling.
What I did was transfer a couple of these things over to DVD. I can't
see this affection for VHS.

And it should be noted that those tapes will eventually lose their
image. Tapes will glitch up, even if you don't watch them.


I use my VCR to tape stuff to watch later. It's cheap, I already have
the
stuff, and the technology is adequate to my purpose. Once I've
watched
the show, I reuse the tape for something else. Amusing though Dirty
Jobs is, I can't see archiving them for posterity.

That said, when my VCR dies I'll probably get a digital recorder of
some
sort, just so I don't get "the look" from the kid at Best Buy.

Cindy Hamilton

LOL!!!!!

About recording stuff, I had a VCR since around the mid-80s. I used to
record tons of stuff, and sometimes I'd break the tab out so as not to
record over it. Then I took enjoyment from the sheer fact that some of
these tapes were so old. Some of them would have just tidbits of
things; a segment from an obscure late-night syndicated comedy show, for
instance. The fun was the unedited broadcasts, commercials and all.

And then there's this other thing. Like you, I'd use the same tapes
over and over. Because I recorded so much stuff, I had a lot of tapes,
so I could change them out if one became full and there were still
programs on it that I hadn't watched yet. I rarely watched a show
during the actual broadcast and I've watched and recorded C-SPAN's
WASHINGTON JOURNAL since the early 90s, day after day, and I'd fill
these tapes up. Then when I recorded over them, maybe the newer program
wouldn't completely cover the previous program. As I made the
transition from VHS recording to DVD recording, I began going through
all of these tapes to find if I wanted to transfer anything to DVD.
Man, it was like an archeological dig. When a recording would end, the
image would fall downward, revealing a segment of a previously recorded
program. I found C-SPAN recordings of interviews with guests going back
to 1996. There were two intact episodes of THE FLASH, commercials and
all, from, like, 1990. And the fact that some of the tapes were
glitched up -- you know, that ribbon that appears across the image, and
drops through it -- was part of the charm. I thought all of this would
be cool to preserve, so I began transferring entire tapes to DVD.

But, alas, Katrina came along and destroyed most of the tapes.

Yes, yes, I know all this is geeky as hell, but it was so much fun.
--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

Alric Knebel wrote:


That's a ridiculous article in my estimation. It starts out with the
accusation that it was auctioned to balance the budget deficit. The
thing is you had to sell those off some kind of way. What are you
supposed to do with them? Just let anybody claim them, just by the fact
that they'd have the equipment? How would you settle ownership?

But thats the claim the Clintons made.

Why assume you had to sell it off? Current users of the spectrum (TV
broadcasters) didn't pay for it because it was realized that the
spectrum is owned by the people who elected a government to manage their
stuff. If TV broadcasters paid for the spectrum it would have just been
a prepaid tax on something owned by the people that would have to
somehow be recovered from them. Current users got to use the spectrum by
filing an application with the FCC and proving they were responsible
with the implicit agreement that if they didn't continue to operate
according to their license they gave the spectrum back.

George wrote:

Alric Knebel wrote:


That's a ridiculous article in my estimation. It starts out with the
accusation that it was auctioned to balance the budget deficit. The
thing is you had to sell those off some kind of way. What are you
supposed to do with them? Just let anybody claim them, just by the
fact that they'd have the equipment? How would you settle ownership?

But thats the claim the Clintons made.

The Clinton's claimed that? Or did some article just state it? The
money for that would be just PENNIES compared to the deficit.

--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:00:47 GMT, Jack wrote:
Sorry, but my mileage varied.

I hooked up the antenna to the converter and the coax cable form the
converter to the VCR as the instructions dictated, set the channel to
3 as directed, but no go.

Something is amiss in your hookup, or in the setup.

Hell, google the Internet. You'll learn that you need a VCR with a
ATSC tuner within for it to work.

That does not make sense. The output of the converter is NTSC, not ATSC.
That's the whole point of having the converter. Your analog TV is NTSC.

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Alric Knebel wrote:
You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current model
of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them for free
to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of other
possibilities if they had wanted to go that way. If you look at the
history, the auction was largely a justification for taking the spectrum
away from TV and not staying with a dual system for a few more years.

What do you mean, a dual system? I'm not up on the term you're using, and
since it's so specific, it must be critical to understanding your point.

And what is the current model for controlling that part of the spectrum? I
thought that part of the spectrum was sold off?

Surely it means leaving the old tv system in place while allocating more
of the spectrum for digital tv, and running them in parallel.

The auctioning, once again, is a smoke and mirror for the conspiracists.

The issue is whether to continue using 70 year old technology, or move
ahead. The changeover does require some sacrifices, but as someone
pointed out, they do get things with the switchover. A really
inefficient allocation of the radio spectrum gets to be recycled into
other uses. If you can't make a radical break with the past, you
are stuck in that past.

The same conspiracists continue to spew their theories, complete with
the same misspelling of "government". They can't add anything to
the discussion because someone has already spelled out the party line.

They don't know that tv has been around since the late 1930's, even though
at least some of the participants in this thread have spewed before
and I've mentioned it. TV got an allocation then, and then after the
war got a bigger allocation, most of the prime real estate. Eventually
they had 82 channels, six megaHertz wide, and I've done the math before
on how much that adds up. Yet, the reason for so many channels was
not because there'd be so much content, but because you had to space
the stations out in any given local, and any nearby stations needed
different channels. So in any given location, most of the hoarded
spectrum is unused, certainly unuseable by other radio services.

These conpiracists don't talk about how commercial broadcast stations
hog the AM broadcast band, and then end up serving up a lot of
syndicated programming that we could find anywhere else up and down
the dial. They don't talk about how commercial broadcast stations
hog the FM broadcast band, and then serve up basically the same
music up and downt he dial.

They think the "government" did all this for the revenue from the
auction, yet no word on how the "government" took control of the radio
spectrum almost a hundred years ago, because back then everything was
concentrated into a very small area due to technology restrictions,
and everyone wsa fighting for the same space. But that same "government"
let the commercial broadcasters have massive amounts of space, and it
may be entertaining but is is the most important "public good"?

Like I've said before, cellphones are the thing that has popularized
radio. Far more people today use radio as a communication device, rather
than passively sitting at home watching tv or listening to the radio, than
ever before. The cellphone gives that, and while I don't have one, I
suspect is as valuable to the users as the people spouting off about
the "government taking away their tv sets".

So TV has hoarded a massive slice of the spectrum for fifty years, and
meanwhile all kinds of developments have come along that make use of
radio. Yet, there is tv with the prime real estate. The move to digital
releases some of that spectrum. But once something is in demand, how
do you allocate it, especially when it's just another commercial concern
(no different from all those tv stations, I should point out)? Why not
acution it off, get some revenue rather than merely letting some
commercial concern profit off the "public airwaves".

But of course, they are conspiracists, so the truth doesn't get in the
way.

So once the decision is made to make a radical change, instead of
hemming and hawing like they did over "am stereo" so eventually it
was "everything goes" instead of a standard and nothing much happened,
then the question is, "how do we make the transition without making
too big a wave".

That's where the certificates come from, making sure that everyone
gets the new tv signals so the old can be turned off at a definite
date. No more wishy washy leaving the old in place while hoping
people move to the new. No more building a new standard on the old,
which means the new can't be too different from the old. Throw out
the old and begin again.

There is very little around that wsa in use 70 years ago,

Michael

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, J wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs

A lot of us electronically-clueless elderly people on fixed incomes
are still using VCRs.

Why not simply "electronically-clueless"?

Everyone wants to portray older people as inept, but that's just seeing
them as they are now. Start subtracting from their age, and you'll
find people who were young and capable.

I saw an add for a program to help "seniors" learn to use the internet,
and the lower age limit was 55. But subtract 30 and you have a 25 year
old in 1978 when small computers were well on their way. It would take
quite the person to live thirty years while ignoring computers, and
then suddenly want to learn at 55 or older.

I'll be fifty next year. I was ten when I wanted a computer, and they
didn't even exist in anything smaller than a minicomputer (and way too
expensive) at the time.

The first vcr I ever saw was when a friend bought his first one in the
fall of 1980, 28 years ago. That's a long time to adapt.

No, most of this "the elderly are inept" comes from other people.

Michael

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FDR wrote:
You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current model
of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them for free
to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of other
possibilities if they had wanted to go that way. If you look at the
history, the auction was largely a justification for taking the spectrum
away from TV and not staying with a dual system for a few more years.

We have a dual system for the past few years. Why must we continue?

Because for some people, forever will not even be long enough.

Michael

In article e.org,
Michael Black wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, FDR wrote:
You could have kept control over them like, oh say, the current model
of that very same part of spectrum. You could have allocated them for free
to public safety or some other worthy group. Any number of other
possibilities if they had wanted to go that way. If you look at the
history, the auction was largely a justification for taking the spectrum
away from TV and not staying with a dual system for a few more years.

We have a dual system for the past few years. Why must we continue?

Because for some people, forever will not even be long enough.

Michael

Actually, this part of the discussion was brought about when
someone said there were no other alternatives that we had to sell it.
Then a couple of possible alternatives were suggested with no suggestion
that they were the preferred.
Do try to keep up..

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:51:09 -0400, Michael Black
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, J wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs

A lot of us electronically-clueless elderly people on fixed incomes
are still using VCRs.

Why not simply "electronically-clueless"?

Everyone wants to portray older people as inept, but that's just seeing
them as they are now. Start subtracting from their age, and you'll
find people who were young and capable.

I saw an add for a program to help "seniors" learn to use the internet,
and the lower age limit was 55. But subtract 30 and you have a 25 year
old in 1978 when small computers were well on their way. It would take
quite the person to live thirty years while ignoring computers, and
then suddenly want to learn at 55 or older.

I'll be fifty next year. I was ten when I wanted a computer, and they
didn't even exist in anything smaller than a minicomputer (and way too
expensive) at the time.

The first vcr I ever saw was when a friend bought his first one in the
fall of 1980, 28 years ago. That's a long time to adapt.

No, most of this "the elderly are inept" comes from other people.

Michael

I wrote disability regulations and they didn't put a PC into our
dept.'s cubicles until 1991 (age 47). They were used mostly by us for
word processing because no one wanted to be a typist or secretary
anymore. No internet connection at work even at the time of early
retirement in 1997 (53).

First home PC in 1998. I was clueless then and am clueless today.

There are many people in my age group who are in the same boat.

Now, back to the converter box and VCR and see what shakes.

Michael Black wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, J wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:22:05 -0500, Alric Knebel
wrote:

I know this thread is about converters, but I have to say, I can't
believe anybody is still using VCRs


A lot of us electronically-clueless elderly people on fixed incomes
are still using VCRs.

Why not simply "electronically-clueless"?

Everyone wants to portray older people as inept, but that's just seeing
them as they are now. Start subtracting from their age, and you'll
find people who were young and capable.

I saw an add for a program to help "seniors" learn to use the internet,
and the lower age limit was 55. But subtract 30 and you have a 25 year
old in 1978 when small computers were well on their way. It would take
quite the person to live thirty years while ignoring computers, and
then suddenly want to learn at 55 or older.

I'll be fifty next year. I was ten when I wanted a computer, and they
didn't even exist in anything smaller than a minicomputer (and way too
expensive) at the time.

The first vcr I ever saw was when a friend bought his first one in the
fall of 1980, 28 years ago. That's a long time to adapt.

No, most of this "the elderly are inept" comes from other people.

Michael

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I agree. I'm 55, and I
have no trouble at all keeping up with technological changes, and I'm in
fact always excited about new things. I learn about it, and make the
most of it. I'm never on the vanguard with it, but I trail just behind
that group.

--
_________________
Alric Knebel

http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com

In article , Windswept@Home (J)
wrote:

I was clueless then and am clueless today.

Exactly. Show me a senior citizen who can't work a VCR and I'll show you
a citizen who couldn't have worked a VCR at age 20.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:58:37 -0400, Bill Steele
wrote:

In article , Windswept@Home (J)
wrote:

I was clueless then and am clueless today.

Exactly. Show me a senior citizen who can't work a VCR and I'll show you
a citizen who couldn't have worked a VCR at age 20.

I could work it the day before yesterday.

But then came the converter.

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Bill Steele wrote:

In article , Windswept@Home (J)
wrote:

I was clueless then and am clueless today.

Exactly. Show me a senior citizen who can't work a VCR and I'll show you
a citizen who couldn't have worked a VCR at age 20.

That's my point. There are lots of clueless people when it comes to
technology, but chances are good they've always been clueless in
that area.

Last year, there was an article in the paper about some teenager who
had a small business helping people with their computers. It started
with
"Baby-boomer parents are well aware that if they need someone to
tweak their home computers, the best people to ask are their own
teenage children."

And since I know baby boomers were responsible for home computers, it
rang false.

The writer is in awe of the teenager because she avoids technology.
That's not an age thing, that's the way certain people approach
technology or new things, and it never changes. Their very approach
makes it difficult, which may mean they manifest it in a rant
against technology or the cliche about older people being technology
clueless.

Build up a stereotype, and people start believing it. One sad thing
about getting old is that too many people take clues about how they
should act from those around them. "Oh, I'm fifty years old, it's
time to act my age. I'm sixty years old, it's time to wear pastels".
The older you get, the harder it is to do things, because your body
starts slowing down, but if you were capable at 20 why should you
be less capable at 80?

Michael