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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

We have steel double entry doors made by Pease. The bottom seal on the
one that gets used all the time was wrecked (one of the four "fins"
missing, and the others in tatters), so I bought a replacement made by
M-D Building Products and marketed specifically for Pease doors: the
door faces turn over at the bottom to form a channel into which matching
"fingers" on the door bottom slide.

The old one slid out and the new one slid in its place just fine. The
only problem is that now the door will not close. The "fins" do not seem
significantly longer than those on the old seal, but there just seems to
be too much material there for the space between the bottom of the door
proper and the threshold. Perhaps the door had dropped a little; if so,
how would I go about raising it? There does seem to be a gap of 3/32" or
so at the top.

Any other suggestions?

Also: the aluminum threshold has a groove in it -- approx. 3/8" wide and
closer to the inside of the house. Is this likely to have been for a
rubber or vinyl seal, or is just to catch runoff? The sills of all the
entry doors are the same: just empty grooves.

Perce
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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
We have steel double entry doors made by Pease. The bottom seal on the
one that gets used all the time was wrecked (one of the four "fins"
missing, and the others in tatters), so I bought a replacement made by
M-D Building Products and marketed specifically for Pease doors: the
door faces turn over at the bottom to form a channel into which matching
"fingers" on the door bottom slide.

The old one slid out and the new one slid in its place just fine. The
only problem is that now the door will not close. The "fins" do not seem
significantly longer than those on the old seal, but there just seems to
be too much material there for the space between the bottom of the door
proper and the threshold. Perhaps the door had dropped a little; if so,
how would I go about raising it? There does seem to be a gap of 3/32" or
so at the top.

Any other suggestions?

Also: the aluminum threshold has a groove in it -- approx. 3/8" wide and
closer to the inside of the house. Is this likely to have been for a
rubber or vinyl seal, or is just to catch runoff? The sills of all the
entry doors are the same: just empty grooves.

Perce

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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
....
The old one slid out and the new one slid in its place just fine. The
only problem is that now the door will not close. The "fins" do not seem
significantly longer than those on the old seal, but there just seems to
be too much material there for the space between the bottom of the door
proper and the threshold. Perhaps the door had dropped a little; if so,
how would I go about raising it? There does seem to be a gap of 3/32" or
so at the top.

Any other suggestions?


Adjustable threshold is first thought -- many have an adjusting screw in
the threshold to allow for some adjustment.

If the hinges are worn significantly, you would be able to lift the door
a little by a bar underneath and see if there's any gap on the bottom of
the hinges rather than the top -- unlikely to be much, but possible.
Replacement hinges would be the easiest remedy in that case although
thin shim washers could be used if they're really worn that badly (again
unlikely).


Also: the aluminum threshold has a groove in it -- approx. 3/8" wide and
closer to the inside of the house. Is this likely to have been for a
rubber or vinyl seal, or is just to catch runoff? The sills of all the
entry doors are the same: just empty grooves.


Probably -- sounds too wide to have been for a seal although typically
would be towards the outer edge. Does this groove drain outside?

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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

On 04/16/08 03:30 pm dpb wrote:

The old one slid out and the new one slid in its place just fine. The
only problem is that now the door will not close. The "fins" do not
seem significantly longer than those on the old seal, but there just
seems to be too much material there for the space between the bottom
of the door proper and the threshold. Perhaps the door had dropped a
little; if so, how would I go about raising it? There does seem to be
a gap of 3/32" or so at the top.

Any other suggestions?


Adjustable threshold is first thought -- many have an adjusting screw in
the threshold to allow for some adjustment.


Yes, I had investigated further and found that this is an adjustable
threshold -- but it's already in the lowest position.

If the hinges are worn significantly, you would be able to lift the door
a little by a bar underneath and see if there's any gap on the bottom of
the hinges rather than the top -- unlikely to be much, but possible.
Replacement hinges would be the easiest remedy in that case although
thin shim washers could be used if they're really worn that badly (again
unlikely).


I don't see any significant gap in the hinges that would allow the use
of shims. So I guess it's either new hinges (or reinstall existing
hinges in different positions) or replace threshold by a lower, but
still adjustable, one.

Also: the aluminum threshold has a groove in it -- approx. 3/8" wide
and closer to the inside of the house. Is this likely to have been for
a rubber or vinyl seal, or is just to catch runoff? The sills of all
the entry doors are the same: just empty grooves.


Probably -- sounds too wide to have been for a seal although typically
would be towards the outer edge. Does this groove drain outside?


I don't *see* where it drains to the outside, but according to a patent
application it is supposed to.

Perce
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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 04/16/08 03:30 pm dpb wrote:

....
If the hinges are worn significantly, you would be able to lift the
door a little by a bar underneath and see if there's any gap on the
bottom of the hinges rather than the top -- unlikely to be much, but
possible. Replacement hinges would be the easiest remedy in that case
although thin shim washers could be used if they're really worn that
badly (again unlikely).


I don't see any significant gap in the hinges that would allow the use
of shims. So I guess it's either new hinges (or reinstall existing
hinges in different positions) or replace threshold by a lower, but
still adjustable, one.


I'm assuming this is a steel-frame as well -- if so, you're not going to
reposition the hinges easily.

If the door won't close at all rather than is just difficult to close,
it sounds as though you may have the wrong replacement seal kit.

Were you able to lift the door on the hinges sufficiently to make it
close and fit correctly?


Also: the aluminum threshold has a groove in it -- approx. 3/8" wide
and closer to the inside of the house. Is this likely to have been
for a rubber or vinyl seal, or is just to catch runoff? The sills of
all the entry doors are the same: just empty grooves.


Probably -- sounds too wide to have been for a seal although typically
would be towards the outer edge. Does this groove drain outside?


I don't *see* where it drains to the outside, but according to a patent
application it is supposed to.


Nothing says the door was installed correctly... Seen quite a number
that way where was supposed to be a detail that wasn't followed.

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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

On 04/16/08 05:05 pm dpb wrote:

If the hinges are worn significantly, you would be able to lift the
door a little by a bar underneath and see if there's any gap on the
bottom of the hinges rather than the top -- unlikely to be much, but
possible. Replacement hinges would be the easiest remedy in that case
although thin shim washers could be used if they're really worn that
badly (again unlikely).


I don't see any significant gap in the hinges that would allow the use
of shims. So I guess it's either new hinges (or reinstall existing
hinges in different positions) or replace threshold by a lower, but
still adjustable, one.


I'm assuming this is a steel-frame as well -- if so, you're not going to
reposition the hinges easily.


No. Wood frame.

If the door won't close at all rather than is just difficult to close,
it sounds as though you may have the wrong replacement seal kit.


Seal kit looks exactly the same as that on the Pease Doors Web site.

Were you able to lift the door on the hinges sufficiently to make it
close and fit correctly?


Not with the new seal in place. I suspect that it closed with the old
seal in place only because the latter was in such bad shape.

I have removed the new seal again and closed the door. Now I can see a
wide gap at at the bottom at the hinge side and almost none at the lock
side. The gap at the top is the same all the way across. The adjustable
threshold is in its lowest setting all the way across. Conclusion: the
lumber supporting the aluminum threshold is bowed or swollen. I cannot
see how to remove the threshold.

Perce
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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
....
I'm assuming this is a steel-frame as well ...

No. Wood frame.


OK, some flexibility there, then, but last choice still...

....
I have removed the new seal again and closed the door. Now I can see a
wide gap at at the bottom at the hinge side and almost none at the lock
side. The gap at the top is the same all the way across. The adjustable
threshold is in its lowest setting all the way across. Conclusion: the
lumber supporting the aluminum threshold is bowed or swollen. I cannot
see how to remove the threshold.


More likely it was simply framed square on an out of level floor to
begin with altho it's possible something has happened since. One
disadvantage of the metal doors--can't easily trim to fit an
out-of-square door to account for such realities.

May have to remove the door entirely to remove a metal threshold if it
was put in and the door framed over it. But, some of the metal ones can
be removed if the leveling screws are taken out. What to do
specifically depends on the details which can't see from here...

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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:50:28 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

Adjustable threshold is first thought -- many have an adjusting screw in
the threshold to allow for some adjustment.


Yes, I had investigated further and found that this is an adjustable
threshold -- but it's already in the lowest position.


They make adjustable hinges. I've seen them on more expensive doors
and work nice for fine adjustments of the door.

DAGS : adjustable door hinge.
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Default Steel entry door -- problem/questions

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:19:51 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 04/16/08 05:05 pm dpb wrote:

If the hinges are worn significantly, you would be able to lift the
door a little by a bar underneath and see if there's any gap on the
bottom of the hinges rather than the top -- unlikely to be much, but
possible. Replacement hinges would be the easiest remedy in that case
although thin shim washers could be used if they're really worn that
badly (again unlikely).


I don't see any significant gap in the hinges that would allow the use
of shims. So I guess it's either new hinges (or reinstall existing
hinges in different positions) or replace threshold by a lower, but
still adjustable, one.


I'm assuming this is a steel-frame as well -- if so, you're not going to
reposition the hinges easily.


No. Wood frame.

If the door won't close at all rather than is just difficult to close,
it sounds as though you may have the wrong replacement seal kit.


Seal kit looks exactly the same as that on the Pease Doors Web site.

Were you able to lift the door on the hinges sufficiently to make it
close and fit correctly?


Not with the new seal in place. I suspect that it closed with the old
seal in place only because the latter was in such bad shape.

I have removed the new seal again and closed the door. Now I can see a
wide gap at at the bottom at the hinge side and almost none at the lock
side. The gap at the top is the same all the way across. The adjustable
threshold is in its lowest setting all the way across. Conclusion: the
lumber supporting the aluminum threshold is bowed or swollen. I cannot
see how to remove the threshold.

Perce


I would remove a screw (jamb side), one a time and check the length.
A steel door on a wood frame with small screws = problems.

Rubbing on the lock side - try a couple of four inch screws on the top
hinge. Perhaps you can pull the jamb over a bit to lift the lock side.

I mentioned -adjustable door hinge.

......Easily adjusted for door alignment after house settling

1/8" Lateral door adjustment at each hinge point

1/4" Vertical door alignment with lock down capabilities to eliminate
future door movement

........
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