This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

Brian wrote:

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks
The bigger issue is that oil is the most significant purchase that is
being made by the USA on the world market. If you look at the cost of
oil in terms of gold (ounces of gold per barrel of oil) the price is
quite good. The problem we have is that the the value of the US dollar
has fallen precipitously outside the US.

On Mar 28, 8:07�pm, Brent Bolin wrote:
On Mar 28, 7:42�pm, Boden wrote:





Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... �My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? �I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... �Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

The bigger issue is that oil is the most significant purchase that is
being made by the USA on the world market. �If you look at the cost of
oil in terms of gold (ounces of gold per barrel of oil) the price is
quite good. �The problem we have is that the the value of the US dollar
has fallen precipitously outside the US.

The problem we have in the U.S. is no drilling or refining. �Going
green is the problem. �It is reflected in the green that comes out of
your wallet.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

around pittsburgh theres a boom of new oil and gas wells, a friend
sold his mineral rights, company drilled a 5000 foot well, he gets
free gas and some money

Put on another sweater. Our government is not responsible for the world-wide
price of oil. Oil is fungible.

the fast and loose devaluing of our money is at least partially from
ru away war spending and the lack of any energy policy at all.

big oil owns the white house and congress, and were getting screwed

In article
,
" wrote:


Put on another sweater. Our government is not responsible for the world-wide
price of oil. Oil is fungible.

the fast and loose devaluing of our money is at least partially from
ru away war spending and the lack of any energy policy at all.

The lack of energy policy is a chronic condition from the 70s forward.
Pretty much all of the world's oil fields (including the big ones in
Saudi) have passed their peaks and are on the way down.

On Mar 28, 7:15 pm, " wrote:
Put on another sweater. Our government is not responsible for the world-wide
price of oil. Oil is fungible.

the fast and loose devaluing of our money is at least partially from
ru away war spending and the lack of any energy policy at all.

big oil owns the white house and congress, and were getting screwed

High oil prices IS an energy policy (albeit not a planned one--Bush
isn't responsible for it)
With high oil prices, alternative energy will gain strength.
If oil is cheap, we won't change. I've been advocating $5.00 per
gallon for gas for some years now. However, I would have like to have
seen it gradually, and through taxation, instead of a dollar
devaluation and a rise in world consumption.

"Brian" wrote in message
news

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here
in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off,
but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here,
just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

It is higher in most other countries. Last year at this time I was in Italy
and I paid 1.2 Euro per liter for heating oil. There, it is the same price
as diesel fuel. Last year when you did the translation of Euro to US dollar
is was $6.40 per gallon. With the decline of the dollar it is much higher
today. Needless to say, we kept our villa on the cool side. We did not
have to pay electric, but the going rate was about .25/kWh, nearly double
the high price we paid here.

Much as you think we are getting screwed, the rest of the world is much more
expensive to buy energy.

Rather that just getting PO'd at Bush, find the real reasons for the high
price and properly channel your anger. Much of the blame goes to China as
they are willing to pay dearly for raw materials. Cement, steel, copper,
you name it. It will get even worse as India gets the cheap automobile.
Well, Tata for now.

"Brent Bolin" wrote
The problem we have in the U.S. is no drilling or refining. Going
green is the problem. It is reflected in the green that comes out of
your wallet.

Where do you get your information?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rrels.2FDay.29

"Brent Bolin" wrote in message
...
On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, Boden wrote:
Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799
a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here
in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe
we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world
off, but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here,
just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

The bigger issue is that oil is the most significant purchase that is
being made by the USA on the world market. If you look at the cost of
oil in terms of gold (ounces of gold per barrel of oil) the price is
quite good. The problem we have is that the the value of the US dollar
has fallen precipitously outside the US.

The problem we have in the U.S. is no drilling or refining. Going
green is the problem. It is reflected in the green that comes out of
your wallet.

The problem is all of the above and then some. The irony is we have plenty
of oil in the ground and a coal reserve of 200 years. No nuclear power plant
construction in decades either. Looks like oil will remain above $100/barrel
for a long time. I just paid $3.44/gallon for regular at Costco. Its
relatively cheap compare with some part of Europe at around $8/gallon. But
the Europeans are driving smaller and more efficient cars. They have much
more efficient clean diesel, we don't. But we don't care, we love our cars,
full size trucks and SUVs, very few takes public transportation and even
fewer car pools. 300hp is good, 400hp is better and 500hp would be ideal,
everyone should be able to do 0-60mph under 3.5 seconds. Our auto industry
is going backwards but they only manufacture what people buys. We all knew
its coming when we had those long lines wrapped around the block waiting at
the pumps during the 1970s. Corn ethanol is a joke and a disaster. Don't
blame Bush, he didn't start this and won't be able to end it either. Neither
could Hillary, Obama or McCain. We had done so little since and now in a
position of transferring our wealth to various countries that really don't
like us. At this rate we will be poor and don't have the means to defend a
major attack. What was that old saying? We have found the enemy and it is
us.

"Todd" wrote in message ...

"Brent Bolin" wrote
The problem we have in the U.S. is no drilling or refining. Going
green is the problem. It is reflected in the green that comes out of
your wallet.

Where do you get your information?
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/country/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rrels.2FDay.29


He mean no *new* drilling or refining. Our neighbors are drilling offshore
nex to our borders wiith what should have been our oil.

Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit
$3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since September..... My question is, are
we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price gone
up as much in other countries around the globe ?????

No idea but we just paid $5.37/ gallon for propane. Anyone want a gas hot
water heater?
______________

I believe we're
getting it shoved up our backsides because of George Bush's war
****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my opinion...
Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just
interested in what other people in other "non Bush" countries are
paying...............

Nobody wants dollars because they are worth zilch. Nevertheless, they are
getting them at the rate of 5,000 per second. Yes, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS
PER FREAKIN' *SECOND*!!!!!!! That's the cost of Georgie's war...a war paid
for largely by borrowing. And close to 40% of that borrowing is from China.
LBJ used to be at the top of my "worst presidents"list - and that list goes
back to FDR - but Bush has replaced him.

Cost in other countries? It is going to be higher in dollars (assuming the
local currency has increased in value relative to dollars - have any NOT
done so? -) but maybe not in local currency depending on their import
dependancy. Doubt it has increased as much in Mexico, eg.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

wrote:
Put on another sweater. Our government is not responsible for the
world-wide price of oil. Oil is fungible.

the fast and loose devaluing of our money is at least partially from
ru away war spending and the lack of any energy policy at all.

big oil owns the white house and congress, and were getting screwed

Nice theory, but it doesn't explain why countries with even less of an
energy policy than we are seeing the cost of oil go up too.

As to oil companies owning the White House and Congress, who would you
rather own them? Rice farmers? Rat Terrier breeders? The AMC Gremlin Fan
Club?

At least with oil companies, when you get screwed, you get lubed up first.

On Mar 29, 5:54*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit
$3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since September..... *My question is, are
we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price gone
up as much in other countries around the globe ?????

No idea but we just paid $5.37/ gallon for propane. *Anyone want a gas hot
water heater?
______________

I believe we're
getting it shoved up our backsides because of George Bush's war
****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my opinion...
Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just
interested in what other people in other "non Bush" countries are
paying...............

Nobody wants dollars because they are worth zilch. *Nevertheless, they are
getting them at the rate of 5,000 per second. *Yes, FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS
PER FREAKIN' *SECOND*!!!!!!! *That's the cost of Georgie's war...a war paid
for largely by borrowing. *And close to 40% of that borrowing is from China.
LBJ used to be at the top of my "worst presidents"list - and that list goes
back to FDR - but Bush has replaced him.

Cost in other countries? *It is going to be higher in dollars (assuming the
local currency has increased in value relative to dollars - have any NOT
done so? -) but maybe not in local currency depending on their import
dependancy. *Doubt it has increased as much in Mexico, eg.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico


What none of this specifically addresses is why certain products have
gone up a lot more than others which are also derived from crude
oil. For example, diesel has just hit $4.30 here in NJ, which puts
it around $1.25 higher than regular gasoline. That's the highest
spread I've ever seen. Diesel is essentially fuel oil, which is what
Brian is complaining about. My own suspicions would be:

1 - Refining capacity

2 - Environmental reqts that require this fuel to be cleaner, ie ultra
low sulfur, but as I recall that went into effect some time ago, and
while the spread between diesel and gasoline, crude etc widened then,
it wasn't anywhere near as wide as the spread is now.

But no one has actually adressed this. ABC news ran a story last
night about the high cost of diesel, it's effect on truckers, shipping
costs, etc, but no explanation of why it's gone up significantly more
than other petroleum products.

wrote:
On Mar 28, 7:15 pm, " wrote:
Put on another sweater. Our government is not responsible for the
world-wide price of oil. Oil is fungible.

the fast and loose devaluing of our money is at least partially from
ru away war spending and the lack of any energy policy at all.

big oil owns the white house and congress, and were getting screwed

High oil prices IS an energy policy (albeit not a planned one--Bush
isn't responsible for it)
With high oil prices, alternative energy will gain strength.
If oil is cheap, we won't change. I've been advocating $5.00 per
gallon for gas for some years now. However, I would have like to have
seen it gradually, and through taxation, instead of a dollar
devaluation and a rise in world consumption.

Virtually every survey shows that the cost of oil is not a deterrent to its
use. Oil is not price elastic. Like food, fuel is a necessity and increasing
the price - through taxes or supply/demand - only nibbles at the margins.

Doubling the cost of fuel means adding 10% to the cost of almost everything
that travels by truck. That translates to about a 30% increase at the retail
level.

Alternative energies may gain influence, but there are two things to
consider when pinning hopes on such plans:

1. Solar energy is dependent entirely on the earth's distance from the sun*.
It would take a solar collector farm the size of the Los Angeles basin to
provide electricity for just California.

2. Meddling in the natural order causes unintended consequences. Conversion
of traditional crops to grow corn (for example) has contributed to a
doubling of rice prices in only one year (now up to $1000/ton from $360 in
January 2007). Just this past week, Egypt, Pakistan, and Viet Nam stopped
the export of locally grown rice to forstall famine and inflation.

-------
*745 watts/sq meter at the equator, at noon, with no clouds. Adjusted for
latitude, night, and cloud cover, a solar collector farm in, say, Arizona
might average 100-200 watts/sq m.

In article ,
Brian wrote:

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in
the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but
that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just
interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

Maybe it's time to step away from that SUV:

According to Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, senior
counsel for the National Resources Defense Fund:

* If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by one mile
per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the amount of oil that
could be obtained from the arctic national wildlife refuge

* Raise it by 2.7 miles a gallon to eliminate all the oil imports from
Iraq and Kuwait combined

* Raise it by 7.6 mpg, we eliminate one-hundred percent of our gulf oil
imports into this country

----------

As a side benefit, if we don't need their oil, maybe we don't need to be
over there spreading "democracy" around.)

On Mar 29, 8:23*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... *My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in
the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? *I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but
that's just my
opinion... *Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just
interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

Maybe it's time to step away from that SUV:

According to Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, senior
counsel for the National Resources Defense Fund:

* *If we raise fuel efficiency standards in American cars by one mile
per gallon, in one year, we would save twice the amount of oil that
could be obtained from the arctic national wildlife refuge

That's totally false. A one mile per gallon increase in avg fuel
efficiency would take decades to equal the avg estimate of what might
be in ANWR. And we don't even know how much oil there really is
there, because even very limited exploration to find out isn't
allowed. For all we know, there could be an elephant field there the
size of Saudi Arabia.



* *Raise it by 2.7 miles a gallon to eliminate all the oil imports from
Iraq and Kuwait combined

Last time I checked, Iraq's oil output was sharply curtailed and I'm
betting this number is based on some minimal amount from the last
several years, not what's there or could be produced. Funny though
that those countries get singled out among all the oil producers in
the world.



* *Raise it by 7.6 mpg, we eliminate one-hundred percent of our gulf oil
imports into this country

----------

As a side benefit, if we don't need their oil, maybe we don't need to be
over there spreading "democracy" around.)- Hide quoted text -


Now, to suggest that just because we get our oil from somewhere else,
we can just ignore the vast oil reserves and security of the mideast
is to ignore the lessons of the last century. How much oil did
Germany and Japan have?

HeyBub wrote:

*745 watts/sq meter at the equator, at noon, with no clouds.

What planet do you live on? :-)

Nick

feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
countries thru out the world

now before you gewt your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
harley...

all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
is a major recession..........

and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore

Other countries are *doing* something about this situation. For example
Germany passed a law to increase its share of renewable power to 12.5% of
the country's total power generation by 2010 and to 20% by 2020.

They are installing solar power left and right in Germany!

We could do the same, but I suppose the large oil companies which control
the U.S. government do not want this, so it will not happen here.

Might want to write your elected representatives, but if you are not
enclosing a large campaign contribution (buying their vote), expect your
request to go in one ear and out the other!


"Brian" wrote in message

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here
in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off,
but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here,
just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

On Mar 29, 10:41*am, "Bill" wrote:
Other countries are *doing* something about this situation. For example
Germany passed a law to increase its share of renewable power to 12.5% of
the country's total power generation by 2010 and to 20% by 2020.

They are installing solar power left and right in Germany!

We could do the same, but I suppose the large oil companies which control
the U.S. government do not want this, so it will not happen here.

If the oil companies control the US govt, how come there is no
drilling in ANWR? How come there is no drilling off the east coast
of the US?

And exactly what law or govt action is stopping anyone from installing
solar power?

The reason solar power isn't being installed is it's prohibitively
expensive. Here in NJ, you can get a system for an average house for
$50K. The state has a program, funded through a tax on everyone's
electric bill, to help pay for it. So, they will kick in maye $30K,
leaving the homeowner to pay $20K. Just looking at the $20K cost,
it takes about 8 years for the system to pay for itself through
eliminating the monthly utility bill and selling electric back to the
utility. That ignores the true economic cost, particularly the other
$30K.

Now, look at that in a commercial setting, which is what is needed to
make a significant impact. You'd have to get the $50k somewhere,
typically it's borrowed. At 6% interest, that would be $3K a year in
interest alone, which is more than the electric generated is worth.
Add in depreciation, maintenance, ROI, etc, and it just gets worse.

That's why no one is rushing out to build solar electric. Just
because the Germans want to throw their money down a rat hole, doesn't
mean it's economically viable or that there is some oil conspiracy
blocking the US from doing it.





Might want to write your elected representatives, but if you are not
enclosing a large campaign contribution (buying their vote), expect your
request to go in one ear and out the other!



"Brian" *wrote in message

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... *My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here
in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? *I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off,
but that's just my
opinion... *Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here,
just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mar 29, 10:02*am, " wrote:
feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
the price down a little. Given that gas prices have about tripled,
it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
be worth dirty air.



temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

Yeah, they could do that. I think it's about 16 cents. But without
a corresponding decrease in spending, it would add to the deficit,




feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
countries thru out the world


Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? Certainly not in
Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. Maybe in China, where they don't give a
damn about the environment. I don't understand why they need to be
dirty. We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
that also meet all US regulations. The problem is, people haven't
been buying them. They've been buying bigger cars and more
importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.



now before you gewt your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
harley...

all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
is a major recession..........

How is allowing cheap dirty cars into the US a short term solution to
anything?



and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore


IMO, unconstitutional.

In article
,
wrote:

On Mar 29, 10:02*am, " wrote:
feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
the price down a little. Given that gas prices have about tripled,
it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
be worth dirty air.

You have something like seven different formulations that need to be
changed during the seasons. And most refineries can't do many of the
different types without major changes. Even then, refineries have to be
shut down to make the changeover. If demand is increased in one area, it
is not likely that the refineries in another would be able to easily
change over.
Having just one or two (probably even if the one is for California)
could help a bit with using refinery capacity we have now more
efficiently.

Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? Certainly not in
Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. Maybe in China, where they don't give a
damn about the environment. I don't understand why they need to be
dirty. We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
that also meet all US regulations. The problem is, people haven't
been buying them. They've been buying bigger cars and more
importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.

Cheap oil was the reason (among others) and the fleet doesn't change
all that quickly. You can see the smaller, cleaner, and more fuel
efficient cars making head way in market now. It will accelerate once
people get convinced that this isn't just another 70s style bounce that
will go away soon.

feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
the price down a little. � Given that gas prices have about tripled,
it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
be worth dirty air.

a little here, a little there. it all adds up in the end. diesel has
soared in cost because of the low sulphur regulations

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

Yeah, they could do that. �I think it's about 16 cents. � But without
a corresponding decrease in spending, it would add to the deficit,

Unemployment benefits welfare and all the rest to help a recession
costs too. better to start the help at the top.

feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
countries thru out the world

Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? � Certainly not in
Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. � �Maybe in China, where they don't give a
damn about the environment. � I don't understand why they need to be
dirty. � We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
that also meet all US regulations. � The problem is, people haven't
been buying them. �They've been buying bigger cars and more
importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.

add a fuel hog tax to any new vehicle getting under 20 MPG. sure car
companies will miss the SUV sales but its important.


now before you get your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
harley...

all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
is a major recession..........

How is allowing cheap dirty cars into the US a short term solution to
anything?


they get excellent gas mileage around 50MPG the tata costs 2500 bucks,
so lots of americans could afford a commuter or around home car.


and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore

IMO, unconstitutional.

theres lots of rules on fundraising, this would just be more
restrictive........ and great for our country. and necessary, just
look at congress in the last 10 years, they are pathetic

we also need to look at what america can afford to do in the world?
wht should we still have military in europe? japan etc?

pre set hardened bases, with skelton crews, our troops back hme
spending their money here, providing border security etc......

currently our troops are just fiancial aid to other countries, like
germany.

definetely keep active bases in s korea etc........

in this day and age we can create a system to get our troops to any
part of the world in a day or two

Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

It's simplistic thinking like yours that helps maintain the situation.

I could give you technical and economic answers probably beyond your
comprehension but they all lie within this thread.

Right now the speculators are screwing you but the majority of the
problem is with the environmentalists and government micromanagement.

On Mar 29, 10:16*am, wrote:
On Mar 29, 10:41*am, "Bill" wrote:

Other countries are *doing* something about this situation. For example
Germany passed a law to increase its share of renewable power to 12.5% of
the country's total power generation by 2010 and to 20% by 2020.

They are installing solar power left and right in Germany!

We could do the same, but I suppose the large oil companies which control
the U.S. government do not want this, so it will not happen here.

If the oil companies control the US govt, how come there is no
drilling in ANWR? * How come there is no drilling off the east coast
of the US?

And exactly what law or govt action is stopping anyone from installing
solar power?

The reason solar power isn't being installed is it's prohibitively
expensive. * Here in NJ, you can get a system for an average house for
$50K. * The state has a program, funded through a tax on everyone's
electric bill, to help pay for it. * So, they will kick in maye $30K,
leaving the homeowner to pay $20K. * *Just looking at the $20K cost,
it takes about 8 years for the system to pay for itself through
eliminating the monthly utility bill and selling electric back to the
utility. *That ignores the true economic cost, particularly the other
$30K.

Now, look at that in a commercial setting, which is what is needed to
make a significant impact. * You'd have to get the $50k somewhere,
typically it's borrowed. * At 6% interest, that would be $3K a year in
interest alone, which is more than the electric generated is worth.
Add in depreciation, maintenance, ROI, etc, and it just gets worse.

That's why no one is rushing out to build solar electric. * Just
because the Germans want to throw their money down a rat hole, doesn't
mean it's economically viable or that there is some oil conspiracy
blocking the US from doing it.



Might want to write your elected representatives, but if you are not
enclosing a large campaign contribution (buying their vote), expect your
request to go in one ear and out the other!

"Brian" *wrote in message

This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a
gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... *My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here
in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? *I believe we're
getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off,
but that's just my
opinion... *Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here,
just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now that everything has been said about the subject. We should all
dim our lights today to "Go green". It's going to save us from
ourselves.

Green this "\~!@#$%^&*()_+\"

On Mar 29, 11:55Â*am, " wrote:
feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
the price down a little. � Given that gas prices have about tripled,
it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
be worth dirty air.

a little here, a little there. it all adds up in the end. diesel has
soared in cost because of the low sulphur regulations

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

Yeah, they could do that. �I think it's about 16 cents. � But without
a corresponding decrease in spending, it would add to the deficit,

Unemployment benefits welfare and all the rest to help a recession
costs too. better to start the help at the top.

feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
countries thru out the world

Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? � Certainly not in
Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. � �Maybe in China, where they don't give a
damn about the environment. � I don't understand why they need to be
dirty. � We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
that also meet all US regulations. � The problem is, people haven't
been buying them. �They've been buying bigger cars and more
importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.

add a fuel hog tax to any new vehicle getting under 20 MPG. sure car
companies will miss the SUV sales but its important.

now before you get your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
harley...

all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
is a major recession..........

How is allowing cheap dirty cars into the US a short term solution to
anything?

they get excellent gas mileage around 50MPG the tata costs 2500 bucks,
so lots of americans could afford a commuter or around home car.


And again, how is this a SHORT term solution to gasoline demand?
And the problem is most people are buying bigger, more expensive cars
and particularly SUV's, instead of cars like the cheaper Honda Civic,
which gets 30/40MPG then how does offering a $2500 Indian **** box
solve anything? If anything it would likely increase the fuel usage
problem, by putting MORE cars on the road. People would use them as
cheap second, third or fourth cars and we would go back 30 years in
air and safety standards in the process.





and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore

IMO, unconstitutional.

theres lots of rules on fundraising, this would just be more
restrictive........ and great for our country. and necessary, just
look at congress in the last 10 years, they are pathetic

we also need to look at what america can afford to do in the world?
wht should we still have military in europe? japan etc?

pre set hardened bases, with skelton crews, Â*our troops back hme
spending their money here, providing border security etc......

currently our troops are just fiancial aid to other countries, like
germany.

definetely keep active bases in s korea etc........

in this day and age we can create a system to get our troops to any
part of the world in a day or two

On Mar 28, 5:01 pm, Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

Check out who gets what % of the $ in your state & see who is in your
pocket.
Bet you will find that it is the state.

Brent Bolin wrote:
On Mar 29, 10:16 am, wrote:



Now that everything has been said about the subject. We should all
dim our lights today to "Go green". It's going to save us from
ourselves.

Green this "\~!@#$%^&*()_+\"

If you're a Google fan, don't go there today. You'll come away ****ed

On Mar 29, 4:59 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Virtually every survey shows that the cost of oil is not a deterrent to its
use. Oil is not price elastic. Like food, fuel is a necessity and increasing
the price - through taxes or supply/demand - only nibbles at the margins.

Sure it's elastic! It's just not IMMEDIATELY elastic. You have to be
able to buy the more efficient car, or the alternative transportation
has to be made available. At $1.00/gallon, carpooling isn't
"reasonable". At $5.00, it sure as heck becomes reasonable. Cheap
gas = SUV. Expensive gas = higher mpg car.
Europeans live a comfortable lifestyle, and for many years their gas
has been at a price that would cause a revolt here in the guzzler
nation.


Doubling the cost of fuel means adding 10% to the cost of almost everything
that travels by truck. That translates to about a 30% increase at the retail
level.
Yep, that's just the point. Maybe we'd grow produce locally instead
of trucking it all over. Maybe we wouldn't be bottling water in
Europe and Hawaii, just so some bunchasnobs can pretend they know the
difference.

Alternative energies may gain influence, but there are two things to
consider when pinning hopes on such plans:

1. Solar energy is dependent entirely on the earth's distance from the sun*.
It would take a solar collector farm the size of the Los Angeles basin to
provide electricity for just California.
Solar may vary with the distance. But it's relatively trivial.
Put solar on all the roofs in LA, and you make a big difference
without taking any land up.

2. Meddling in the natural order causes unintended consequences. Conversion
of traditional crops to grow corn (for example) has contributed to a
doubling of rice prices in only one year (now up to $1000/ton from $360 in
January 2007). Just this past week, Egypt, Pakistan, and Viet Nam stopped
the export of locally grown rice to forstall famine and inflation.

Here, you are absolutely correct. I am not a fan of ethanol from
crops, primarily because there isn't sufficient gain in energy after
you consider the farming, trucking, processing, fertilizing, water
pumping, and land consumption. The price of tortillas for Mexicans
has jumped substantially since we started putting corn in our gas
tanks. The whole thing is a moneymaker for Archer Daniels Midland,
which gets huge subsidies from the feds, even though they make huge
amounts of money from the crops. And don't get me started on crop
subsidies for the farmers themselves. It's a racket.


-------
*745 watts/sq meter at the equator, at noon, with no clouds. Adjusted for
latitude, night, and cloud cover, a solar collector farm in, say, Arizona
might average 100-200 watts/sq m.

Without a collector, people in AZ use fossil or nuclear fuels to cool
their homes.

On Mar 29, 7:02 am, " wrote:
feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax
That gas tax isn't enough to make a difference. RAISE the tax, and
use it for alternative development, efficient mass transit, etc.

On Mar 29, 5:14�pm, wrote:
On Mar 29, 7:02 am, " wrote: feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

That gas tax isn't enough to make a difference. �RAISE the tax, and
use it for alternative development, efficient mass transit, etc.

unrestrained higher costs of gasoline means less spending on
everything else.............

its killing our economy.

might be better to take the hit on lost gas tax revenue, than pay tons
more for unemployment welfare etc

incidently my local home depot reports sales are dead, part timers
hours cut. the place was empty.......

normally they are hiring at this time

On Mar 28, 7:01*pm, Brian wrote:
This may be off topic but here goes............

The price of home heating oil here in New Hampshire, USA just hit $3.799 a gallon, up $1.50 since
September..... *My question is, are we the only ones getting screwed here in the US or has the price
gone up as much in other countries around the globe ????? *I believe we're getting it shoved up our
backsides because of George Bush's war ****ing the rest of the world off, but that's just my
opinion... *Please, I'm not looking to start a long flaming thread here, just interested in what
other people in other "non Bush" countries are paying...............

Thanks

It is not in US only, the prices in Europe are doubled and it is not
because of Gorge Bush war, gas prices in Europe have been always 2 - 3
times higher. Actually the cost of living in Europe is 3 times more
expensive than here in US, if you don't believe just try to live 3
years in Europe and will see:-)

http://www.planorealestateadvisor.com
http://www.planorealty.blogspot.com

wrote:

Doubling the cost of fuel means adding 10% to the cost of almost
everything that travels by truck. That translates to about a 30%
increase at the retail level.
Yep, that's just the point. Maybe we'd grow produce locally instead
of trucking it all over.

Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
major place to major place, by truck from major to local.

I seem to remember that worked well.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message

Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
major place to major place, by truck from major to local.

I seem to remember that worked well.

Sure, but it took a little longer. In this day of instant gratification
where things MUST go FedEx red we don't have the patience to wait a few more
days. I have seen though, where 53' containers can go by rail and be more
economical than straight truck routing. At $4+ for diesel, trains would
make a lot of sense. Passenger trains too!

In article ,
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:23:50 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

According to Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, senior
counsel for the National Resources Defense Fund:

Would that be he same RFKjr that blocked Cape Wind, the wind farm off
Nantucket? (along with his drunken uncle Ted, John Kerry and Mitt
Romney)

Does that disqualify the cited calculations? Maybe you don't like him,
or you think he's a hypocrite, but that doesn't invalidate the message.
I doubt he obtained those numbers from throwing darts in a pub.

wrote:

and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore

The "special interests" are a counter to the mob. Sort of a
checks-and-balances, a division of power. The "mob" won't let the special
interests get too far afield, and the "special interests" act as a brake on
"gimme (oil, drugs, etc.) for free."

George Will proposed a simplified campaign finance law:

1. No cash,
2. No foreign contributions,
3. Instant disclosure.

That's it.

wrote:
On Mar 29, 5:14?pm, wrote:
On Mar 29, 7:02 am, " wrote: feds
should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

That gas tax isn't enough to make a difference. ?RAISE the tax, and
use it for alternative development, efficient mass transit, etc.

unrestrained higher costs of gasoline means less spending on
everything else.............

Exactly. Fuel use is virtually inelastic. Price goes up, people pay it or
starve, lose their jobs, or suffer other dire consequences. Gone are the
days when people "went for a drive." Virtually all travel is a necessity.

As for using increased tax revenues to fund, say, mass transit. It takes
five years to lay track. So 100% of the drivers in my town would be charged
extra amounts so that five years from now, 2% of the population will have
the opportunity to use rail transit? Really bad trade-off. Really bad.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news

"dadiOH" wrote in message

Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
major place to major place, by truck from major to local.

I seem to remember that worked well.

Sure, but it took a little longer. In this day of instant gratification
where things MUST go FedEx red we don't have the patience to wait a few
more days. I have seen though, where 53' containers can go by rail and be
more economical than straight truck routing. At $4+ for diesel, trains
would make a lot of sense. Passenger trains too!


Not on subject, looks like investing in rail transportation maybe a good
long term strategy. Trains are coming back.

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:16:04 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:


In article ,
wrote:


On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:23:50 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:


According to Environmental Attorney Robert F. Kennedy, Jr, senior
counsel for the National Resources Defense Fund:

Would that be he same RFKjr that blocked Cape Wind, the wind farm off
Nantucket? (along with his drunken uncle Ted, John Kerry and Mitt
Romney)

Does that disqualify the cited calculations? Maybe you don't like him,
or you think he's a hypocrite, but that doesn't invalidate the message.
I doubt he obtained those numbers from throwing darts in a pub.


I just think it is a bull**** number. In the 74 the average MPG in the
US was 12.9 and they told us creating the CAFE standard by 6MPG would
make us energy independent. In 78 it was 18. Right now it is 27.5 and
we import more oil than ever. Making it 28 or 29 is not going to
suddenly allow us to kiss off the Saudis.


Hmmm,
Look at the increasing consumption. Nixon era started talking about
alternate energy and created also EPA. Look at the size of car getting
bigger as well. People have short memory and never seem to learn.
How much money U.S. spent on Iraq war? If that was used to develope
alternate energy......