Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

On Mar 22, 10:02*am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. *Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. *She needs a new backsplash but I digress. *I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. *No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. *So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. *Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)? *

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? *I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch. *

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

You got took, you didnt get a bid I bet, you just had it installed. My
elderly neighbor once had sears out to put in and supply a similar
150$-200$ setup and was charged 900, I got sears to lower it to 400.
If it were me id stop pay if it was a check or dispute it and complain
to the plumber. I find this common in plumbing.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
...
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship
seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I
am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.


I'm in Rochester NY, where I got quotes for ripping about about 10 feet of
iron drain pipes in the basement and replacing them with PVC. The numbers
ranged from almost $1000 down to $250. The cheapest guy came with great
recommendations from some very picky friends. When he finished the job (one
hour), I told him about the highest quote. He said it was absurd, but
"they're out there - you have to be careful".

The most expensive quote came from a guy who did pretty much the exact same
job in my previous home, for about $400. He explained the price difference
as "travel charges", because he was already at my house for something else
when I had him to the extra work. He lives 5 minutes from my current place.
That explains the $600 travel charges. And, I'm the next king of Denmark.

Anyway, sounds like your mom should've shopped around and asked some
acquaintances for recommendations.

ransley wrote:

On Mar 22, 10:02 am, Steve Kraus
wrote:

Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.


You got took, you didnt get a bid I bet, you just had it installed. My
elderly neighbor once had sears out to put in and supply a similar
150$-200$ setup and was charged 900, I got sears to lower it to 400.
If it were me id stop pay if it was a check or dispute it and complain
to the plumber. I find this common in plumbing.
Hmmm,
I did not realize USD value is so low now, LOL! What's breakdown on the
bill. How much for material, how much for time? Typically seniors get
some discount.

I'd a done it for half that. I assume you supplied the fawcett? He
couldn't have been there an hour.

s


"Steve Kraus" wrote in message
...

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I
am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:02:26 -0000, Steve Kraus
wrote:

Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

It would have been a fun do-it-yourself project for you and your mom.

"Steve Kraus" wrote in message

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners?

Hard to say sitting here. What is the faucet worth? They range from $25 to
$500. Could have been a $326 faucet with only 10 bucks to install.

What, if any, problems did he run into shutting off the water to install the
shutoffs? How bad was the old faucet corroded so it would not come off?

Typical plumber charges run $60 to $90 an hour

We've been doing extensive remodeling at work, including a new bathroom, new
fixtures in another, etc. A small drain leak started in the old plumbing.
Simple sweat joint, you'd think, but it ended up being 4 hours labor to
remove and re-do the job. Old work can be a real bitch to work with. So,
may answer to your question is a strong maybe, maybe not.

On Mar 22, 8:02*am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. *Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. *She needs a new backsplash but I digress. *I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. *No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. *So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. *Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)? *

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? *I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch. *

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

For that price the least he could have done is soldered some MIP X
COPPER adapters.

On Mar 22, 12:36*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Steve Kraus" wrote in message

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners?

Hard to say sitting here. *What is the faucet worth? *They range from $25 to
$500. *Could have been a $326 faucet with only 10 bucks to install.

What, if any, problems did he run into shutting off the water to install the
shutoffs? *How bad was the old faucet corroded so it would not come off?

Typical plumber charges run $60 to $90 an hour

We've been doing extensive remodeling at work, including a new bathroom, new
fixtures in another, etc. *A small drain leak started in the old plumbing.
Simple sweat joint, you'd think, but it ended up being 4 hours labor to
remove and re-do the job. *Old work can be a real bitch to work with. *So,
may answer to your question is a strong maybe, maybe not.

" Hard to say sitting here. ... What is the faucet worth? Could
have been a $326 faucet with only 10 bucks to install.

Not as hard to say as you think. Reread the OP's post. "I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it."

Hard to say sitting here. What is the faucet worth? They range from
$25 to $500. Could have been a $326 faucet with only 10 bucks to
install.

We supplied the faucet. The charges were just for labor and the shutoffs
and bits of tubing.


What, if any, problems did he run into shutting off the water to
install the shutoffs?

I wasn't present but I don't see why that would be. There is a main
shutoff for the house.

How bad was the old faucet corroded so it would
not come off?

Dunno but I doubt it.

On Mar 22, 11:36*am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Steve Kraus" wrote in message

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners?

Hard to say sitting here. *What is the faucet worth? *They range from $25 to
$500. *Could have been a $326 faucet with only 10 bucks to install.

What, if any, problems did he run into shutting off the water to install the
shutoffs? *How bad was the old faucet corroded so it would not come off?

Typical plumber charges run $60 to $90 an hour

We've been doing extensive remodeling at work, including a new bathroom, new
fixtures in another, etc. *A small drain leak started in the old plumbing.
Simple sweat joint, you'd think, but it ended up being 4 hours labor to
remove and re-do the job. *Old work can be a real bitch to work with. *So,
may answer to your question is a strong maybe, maybe not.

I read it as he supplied all parts but 2 shut off valves and 2
connecting pipes, maybe the plumber 30$ in parts.

On Mar 22, 11:02*am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. *Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. *She needs a new backsplash but I digress. *I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. *No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. *So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. *Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)? *

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? *I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch. *

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

$146 for the shutoff install - Are they platinum?

As far as I can tell from the pictures, he cut the copper pipes and
installed the shutoffs and then the risers (the fill tubes)Since the
copper pipe is bigger than the riser he would have had to install
adaptors anyway - exact same labor as installing the shutoffs. So in
reality, the only extra Mom should have paid for is the cost of the
shutoffs themselves.

Unless they are made of platinum, or are perhaps remote controlled, I
can't imagine 2 shutoffs costing $146. You can buy shutoffs *and*
risers as a set for under $20 and there should have been no additional
labor cost for the install.

$336 for the faucet install - - $482 total

As noted above, the risers and shutoffs are really cheap. - we're
talking maybe $60 for all parts. OK, let's call it $82 to make the
math easy. That means he charged at least $400 for labor.

How long was he there? Was he in and out in an hour or did he have to
remove Mom's knick-knacks from the back of the sink and the dishwasher
soap, sponges and plastic grocery bags from underneath? Time is money,
so if he had to waste time doing things other than plumbing, he
wouldn't have done it for free.

All that said, if it was as simple a job as it appears it should have
been, Mom was taken advantage of and it's time to make some phone
calls.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:02 am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration
or anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously
there were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those
shutoffs and the chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the
installation workmanship seems fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and
short bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for
the faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve
installation. Was this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the
proverbial cleaners? I am aware that skilled labor and a truck and
shop filled with parts don't come cheap but it seems outrageous to
me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

$146 for the shutoff install - Are they platinum?

As far as I can tell from the pictures, he cut the copper pipes and
installed the shutoffs and then the risers (the fill tubes)Since the
copper pipe is bigger than the riser he would have had to install
adaptors anyway - exact same labor as installing the shutoffs. So in
reality, the only extra Mom should have paid for is the cost of the
shutoffs themselves.

Unless they are made of platinum, or are perhaps remote controlled, I
can't imagine 2 shutoffs costing $146. You can buy shutoffs *and*
risers as a set for under $20 and there should have been no additional
labor cost for the install.

$336 for the faucet install - - $482 total

As noted above, the risers and shutoffs are really cheap. - we're
talking maybe $60 for all parts. OK, let's call it $82 to make the
math easy. That means he charged at least $400 for labor.

How long was he there? Was he in and out in an hour or did he have to
remove Mom's knick-knacks from the back of the sink and the dishwasher
soap, sponges and plastic grocery bags from underneath? Time is money,
so if he had to waste time doing things other than plumbing, he
wouldn't have done it for free.

All that said, if it was as simple a job as it appears it should have
been, Mom was taken advantage of and it's time to make some phone
calls.

Quite frankly what you folks *should* complain about are the high costs
associated with oil production executives. Why or how would anyone in a
years' time be worth millions of dollars is beyond me. [Figure there's 2,000
working hours at best in a year, for a CEO to earn millions a year.] But
it's easier to bitch about a hard working plumber who not only has a shop to
support but a family as well.

--
Zyp

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

Not as hard to say as you think. Reread the OP's post. "I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it."

read this part
Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation.

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

Not as hard to say as you think. Reread the OP's post. "I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it."

read this part
Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation.

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.



Mine took 4 hours, but the phone kept ringing, and the cat kept climbing on
my chest while I was working. She's a union cat. She did nothing while I
worked.

Zyp wrote:

Quite frankly what you folks *should* complain about are the high
costs associated with oil production executives. Why or how would
anyone in a years' time be worth millions of dollars is beyond me.
[Figure there's 2,000 working hours at best in a year, for a CEO to
earn millions a year.] But it's easier to bitch about a hard
working plumber who not only has a shop to support but a family as
well.

A plumber who charges twice as much for the job as other plumbers is either
delivering something exceptional that nobody who has looked at this case has
been able to detect, or he ripped-off someone he figured wouldn't know any
better. Which do you think is more likely?

Steve Kraus wrote:

Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.


It's apples and oranges, sort of, but two years ago our condo paid $600
for a Sunday evening spent
rooting out the sewer line all the way to the far side of the street.
Three guys? Four? Don't remember.
If I was calling a plumber to install a faucet, I would try to buy the
faucet from him. I like to make
points with good contractors. If a contractor is good enough to do work
in my home, he is good
enough to let him have the profit on the parts.

On Mar 22, 3:45*pm, Norminn wrote:
Steve Kraus wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. *Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. *She needs a new backsplash but I digress. *I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. *No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. *So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. *Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)? *

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. *Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? *I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.. *

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

It's apples and oranges, sort of, but two years ago our condo paid $600
for a Sunday evening spent
rooting out the sewer line all the way to the far side of the street. *
Three guys? *Four? *Don't remember.
If I was calling a plumber to install a faucet, I would try to buy the
faucet from him. *I like to make
points with good contractors. *If a contractor is good enough to do work
in my home, he is good
enough to let him have the profit on the parts.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You got took complete tap install shutoffs and all 130.00 .

On Mar 22, 3:43*pm, "Zyp" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 22, 11:02 am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration
or anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously
there were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those
shutoffs and the chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the
installation workmanship seems fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and
short bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for
the faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve
installation. Was this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the
proverbial cleaners? I am aware that skilled labor and a truck and
shop filled with parts don't come cheap but it seems outrageous to
me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

$146 for the shutoff install - Are they platinum?

As far as I can tell from the pictures, he cut the copper pipes and
installed the shutoffs and then the risers (the fill tubes)Since the
copper pipe is bigger than the riser he would have had to install
adaptors anyway - exact same labor as installing the shutoffs. So in
reality, the only extra Mom should have paid for is the cost of the
shutoffs themselves.

Unless they are made of platinum, or are perhaps remote controlled, I
can't imagine 2 shutoffs costing $146. You can buy shutoffs *and*
risers as a set for under $20 and there should have been no additional
labor cost for the install.

$336 for the faucet install - - *$482 total

As noted above, the risers and shutoffs are really cheap. - we're
talking maybe $60 for all parts. OK, let's call it $82 to make the
math easy. *That means he charged at least $400 for labor.

How long was he there? Was he in and out in an hour or did he have to
remove Mom's knick-knacks from the back of the sink and the dishwasher
soap, sponges and plastic grocery bags from underneath? Time is money,
so if he had to waste time doing things other than plumbing, he
wouldn't have done it for free.

All that said, if it was as simple a job as it appears it should have
been, Mom was taken advantage of and it's time to make some phone
calls.

Quite frankly what you folks *should* complain about are the high costs
associated with oil production executives. *Why or how would anyone in a
years' time be worth millions of dollars is beyond me. [Figure there's 2,000
working hours at best in a year, for a CEO to earn millions a year.] * But
it's easier to bitch about a hard working plumber who not only has a shop to
support but a family as well.

--
Zyp- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Where do you get 2000 working hours (at best) in a year?

On Mar 22, 3:55*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

Not as hard to say as you think. Reread the OP's post. "I bought the
faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it."

*read this part

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation.

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.

Not sure why you're telling *me* to read that part.

Read this part:

"I bought the faucet online and Mom called a plumbing company to
install it."

The only parts supplied by the plumber were the shutoff and risers.
The cost of the faucet doesn't even enter into this discussion.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

read this part



Not sure why you're telling *me* to read that part.

Read this part:


I wasn't telling you. I mistyped "I read". Read and read are spelled the
same. Yes, I re-read that part but also read the part I posted that was a
bit ambiguous.

there was a violation then if it was a union job. If only the cat was
watching you work, then you were 2 people shy. There has to be 3 watching
and 1 working.

s


"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

Mine took 4 hours, but the phone kept ringing, and the cat kept climbing
on my chest while I was working. She's a union cat. She did nothing while
I worked.

LETS SEE. That's 40 hours a week, 50 weeks (if you take 2 weeks off) so
that equals 2000. Standard working year.

s


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Where do you get 2000 working hours (at best) in a year?

On Mar 22, 10:03*pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
LETS SEE. *That's 40 hours a week, *50 weeks (if you take 2 weeks off) *so
that equals 2000. * Standard working year.

s

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

Where do you get 2000 working hours (at best) in a year?

That's what I thought you meant. Now, let me think...I've been working
for well over 30 years...when was the last time I had a job that
required only 40 hours a week? Uh, that would be...never.

2000 hours a year...yeah, right.

Well that's certainly up to you. If you like the overtime and the extra
pay. No one can force you to work over 40 a week. I personally liked the
40 , so that's what i did.

steve


"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

That's what I thought you meant. Now, let me think...I've been working
for well over 30 years...when was the last time I had a job that
required only 40 hours a week? Uh, that would be...never.

2000 hours a year...yeah, right.

On Mar 22, 10:50*pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Well that's certainly up to you. *If you like the overtime and the extra
pay. * No one can force you to work over 40 a week. *I personally liked the
40 , so that's what i did.

steve

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

That's what I thought you meant. Now, let me think...I've been working
for well over 30 years...when was the last time I had a job that
required only 40 hours a week? Uh, that would be...never.

2000 hours a year...yeah, right.

No one can force you to work over 40 a week

I wonder how my commanding officer would have reacted to that
statement? g

On Mar 22, 10:50*pm, "S. Barker" wrote:
Well that's certainly up to you. *If you like the overtime and the extra
pay. * No one can force you to work over 40 a week. *I personally liked the
40 , so that's what i did.

steve

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

That's what I thought you meant. Now, let me think...I've been working
for well over 30 years...when was the last time I had a job that
required only 40 hours a week? Uh, that would be...never.

2000 hours a year...yeah, right.

Figure there's 2,000 working hours at best in a year, for a CEO to
earn millions a year.

Do you really think a CEO only works a 40 hour week? Do you think he
became a CEO by only working 40 hours a week?

I'm not saying that they are worth the money they make, but let's at
least be somewhat accurate. There aren't too many multi-million dollar
CEO's punching a 9-5 clock.

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
Well that's certainly up to you. If you like the overtime and the extra
pay. No one can force you to work over 40 a week. I personally liked
the 40 , so that's what i did.

steve

Reasonable for many, but the high paid CEO of a multi billion $$$ company is
probably working closer to 3000 hours. Many years ago I used to work all
the OT I could get and probably worked 2500+. Today I don't have a clue how
many hours I put in. I'm salaried and don't keep track. I also come and go
as I please. I'd guess in the 2000 hour range. When I "retire" I expect to
work maybe half that.

Did anyone think to ask for an estimate, guesstimate, price per hour
and/or anything in writing?

No, not for what should have been a trivial job. For a big job, sure. For
a little job, no.

Its kind of hard to argue after the fact when they have already
completed the work, you paid them and then you go back and cancel the
check.

Excuse me but who said anything about cancelling a check? Certainly not
me. No one is cancelling a check or even asking for a refund.

I take those kind of checks straight to the
county prosecuting attorney. Thats what they are for.

Fascinating but completely off topic.

Should she have asked for estimates first? Clearly yes since there are
plumbing contractors out there who charge senior citizens almost 500
dollars for what was likely a 150-250 dollar job.

Water under the bridge. But you're wrong if you think I have no business
even raising the question. If someone walks through a bad neighborhood in
the middle of the night flashing a lot of cash and jewels and they get
robbed you can fairly call them foolish. But that doesn't make it any less
a crime. (Only an analogy; I'm not saying this was a crime. Just in
spirit.)

The OP should have asked questions before hiring someone. I'd consider
it an expensive lesson and remember to do your homework before jumping
in.

Get at least 3 estimates on something like this in the future. I wonder,
was the plumber asked for a ballpark price at all. If not, I'd say you
gave him a blank check.
And he should have, at least, kissed your mom on the lips after screwing
her...

CP

On Mar 23, 12:25*am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Did anyone think to ask for an estimate, *guesstimate, price per hour
and/or anything in writing?

No, not for what should have been a trivial job. *For a big job, sure. *For
a little job, no. *

Its kind of hard to argue after the fact when they have already
completed the work, you paid them and then you go back and cancel the
check.

Excuse me but who said anything about cancelling a check? *Certainly not
me. *No one is cancelling a check or even asking for a refund.

I take those kind of checks straight to the
county prosecuting attorney. Thats what they are for.

Fascinating but completely off topic.

Should she have asked for estimates first? *Clearly yes since there are
plumbing contractors out there who charge senior citizens almost 500
dollars for what was likely a 150-250 dollar job.

Water under the bridge. *But you're wrong if you think I have no business
even raising the question. *If someone walks through a bad neighborhood in
the middle of the night flashing a lot of cash and jewels and they get
robbed you can fairly call them foolish. *But that doesn't make it any less
a crime. *(Only an analogy; I'm not saying this was a crime. *Just in
spirit.)

getting estimates...

First you said: No, not for what should have been a trivial job.
Then you said: Clearly yes.

Which is it?

I can't think of any situation where one shouldn't need to ask for an
estimate when contracting a service. The fact that there are
unscrupulous contractors that will rip off naive clients is just *one*
of many reasons to get an estimate.

Piece together some of the other things mentioned in this thread:

- No main shutoff in the house
- Non-standard installation of the current fixtures
- A mess above and below the sink
- Location of plumbing that makes access time consuming
- etc. etc.

Asking upfront opens the window for the contractor to say "I charge
$80 and hour. A typical faucet install takes 2 hours." If he doesn't
offer details as to what could make the install non-typical, you
should ask. Then everyone knows upfront what the cost range of the job
could be and the correct decisions can be made.

Part of this conversation should also include questions about
insurance, clean-up and warranty.

In plumbing, as with many other repair jobs, the expectation of a
"trivial job" is a dangerous assumption and should be inquired about
upfront.

"SteveB" wrote in message

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.

Seems high? That's forcible rape. I can do one of those in an hour if
the old one is hard to take off. And another hour for the shut off valve
even if I have to sweat it on. I'd say $166 an hour is high. I only
charge $80 for what I do.

Steve

What we do not know is if the plumber had run into other problems and how
long the job took. Yes, in most cases it is a couple of hours work, but
there may be circumstances we don't know about. I'll reserve judgment until
I do.

I'd like to see you do the faucet at my MIL's previous house in an hour.

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
LETS SEE. That's 40 hours a week, 50 weeks (if you take 2 weeks off) so
that equals 2000. Standard working year.

s

When I hear "how much someone makes an hour", sometimes, it's highly
ambiguous. Ironworkers ARE PAID a very high rate per hour. Yet, sometimes,
they are on unemployment for part of the year because of the weather or lack
of work. When they SAY they get $50 per hour, that doesn't mean they get a
W-2 for $100,000 at the end of the year.

So, a person has to take their gross pay for a year, divide it by 2000 (that
is only the ones that can compute 50 X 40 + 2,000) , and that's what they
REALLY make an hour. And that does not account for overtime. Same with
salaried workers, except they usually have a longer work week than 40 hours.

Steve

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation.

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.

Seems high? That's forcible rape. I can do one of those in an hour if the
old one is hard to take off. And another hour for the shut off valve even
if I have to sweat it on. I'd say $166 an hour is high. I only charge $80
for what I do.

Steve

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. net...

"SteveB" wrote in message

If the labor was $336, yes it sure seems high.

Seems high? That's forcible rape. I can do one of those in an hour if
the old one is hard to take off. And another hour for the shut off valve
even if I have to sweat it on. I'd say $166 an hour is high. I only
charge $80 for what I do.

Steve

What we do not know is if the plumber had run into other problems and how
long the job took. Yes, in most cases it is a couple of hours work, but
there may be circumstances we don't know about. I'll reserve judgment
until I do.

I'd like to see you do the faucet at my MIL's previous house in an hour.

Just changed one today on my mop sink. Went to one with the pull out handle
faucet. Had all kinds of problems. Took me a WHOLE hour. Sheesh.

These things aren't rocket surgery. I know you can run into problems, but
they are basically simple.

Steve

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:05:10 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:





I'd like to see you do the faucet at my MIL's previous house in an hour.

Just changed one today on my mop sink. Went to one with the pull out handle
faucet. Had all kinds of problems. Took me a WHOLE hour. Sheesh.

These things aren't rocket surgery. I know you can run into problems, but
they are basically simple.

Steve

Steve, that is the dumbest conclusion I've seen in a while. Do you
know the situation with the sink I'm talking about? The plumbing
leading up to it? The frozen open shut off valves? The fact that the
main shutoff does not? It is not that simple.

You don't know the situation of her house. You don't know the
situation of the house the OP was speaking of. Just because you did
yours in an hour, that does not mean every faucet in the world can be
done in that time. I've done my share of older work and it can be
troublesome at times.

On Mar 22, 11:02 am, Steve Kraus
wrote:
Here's Mom's new kitchen faucet:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet1.jpg

It's an American Standard. Existing sink, no change in configuration or
anything. She needs a new backsplash but I digress. I bought the faucet
online and Mom called a plumbing company to install it.

Here's underneath:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...un/faucet2.jpg

Previously it was copper all the way up. No flexes and perviously there
were no shutoffs. So the new installation included those shutoffs and the
chrome plated lines you see. Quality of the installation workmanship seems
fine.

Is $482.00 a fair price for this install (including the shutoffs and short
bits of tubing)?

Parts and labor are not broken out but the invoice says $336.00 for the
faucet installation and $146.00 for the shutoff valve installation. Was
this fair or did a senior get taken taken to the proverbial cleaners? I am
aware that skilled labor and a truck and shop filled with parts don't come
cheap but it seems outrageous to me but then maybe I am just out of touch.

This is suburban Chicago if it matters.

I think it's a fair price.

You don't deserve any of the normal breaks that a customer gets for
being a long-time customer or having a lot of work to do. Travel time
is the same if he is there for 5 minutes or for 4 hours. Plus there's
probably a PITA surcharge from the sounds of it.

Figure a $100 fee for a service call plus $90/hour for a 4 hour
minimum (including travel) plus parts. Not too bad for a big city.
You're not going to get this done for $50.

Next time, have him supply the faucet and you'll probably get the
whole thing done for the same price.

SteveB wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote



Steve, that is the dumbest conclusion I've seen in a while.


Thank you very much. I am glad I hold this position of honor in your
memory. I do not know everything, nor claim to.

I do know that I do think that $166 per hour for changing a faucet is what I
do think is excessive. If it was that complicated, or rusted up and frozen
up that much, it would have taken more than two hours.

YMMV. And probably does.

Steve


166.00 per hour? Holy cow! I did not know USD is so worthless lately!
Here plumbers charge ~40.00 an hour.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote


Steve, that is the dumbest conclusion I've seen in a while.

Thank you very much. I am glad I hold this position of honor in your
memory. I do not know everything, nor claim to.

I do know that I do think that $166 per hour for changing a faucet is what I
do think is excessive. If it was that complicated, or rusted up and frozen
up that much, it would have taken more than two hours.

YMMV. And probably does.

Steve

Obviously you are one of the rip off plumbers yourself. No right thinking
person would think this is a proper charge.

s


"Pat" wrote in message
...

I think it's a fair price.

You don't deserve any of the normal breaks that a customer gets for
being a long-time customer or having a lot of work to do. Travel time
is the same if he is there for 5 minutes or for 4 hours. Plus there's
probably a PITA surcharge from the sounds of it.

Figure a $100 fee for a service call plus $90/hour for a 4 hour
minimum (including travel) plus parts. Not too bad for a big city.
You're not going to get this done for $50.

Next time, have him supply the faucet and you'll probably get the
whole thing done for the same price.