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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 20, 8:29 am, Mike wrote:
I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike


STOP!

The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to
clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of
the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger,
or will be too big to get through the trapway.

I have cleared at least 100 clogged toilets as a landlord. I have
removed toys, spoons, the top of a water bottle, hair extensions, and
countless other items. Perhaps one of the most unexpected things was
a tampon applicator that got all the way to the bottom of the toilet
(where the toilet meets the floor flange), and got stuck sideways
across the bottom.

You can either continue with the auger or pull the toilet and see if
you can tell what the problem is from the other end. Pulling the
toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set
the bowl.

I have had items that I couldn't get out of the toilet, and found out
what they were after I replaced the toilet and busted the old one open
to see what the problem was.

I was going to post yesterday and suggest that you get a better auger,
from General or Rigid, that would have cost $40-50, but I thought the
cheaper one would probably work for you. If you really want to got
out and spend $45 towards fixing the problem, this would be my choice.

JK
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On Mar 20, 9:43 am, Big_Jake wrote:
On Mar 20, 8:29 am, Mike wrote:
Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.


Thanks...


Mike


STOP!

The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to
clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of
the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger,
or will be too big to get through the trapway.

I have cleared at least 100 clogged toilets as a landlord. I have
removed toys, spoons, the top of a water bottle, hair extensions, and
countless other items. Perhaps one of the most unexpected things was
a tampon applicator that got all the way to the bottom of the toilet
(where the toilet meets the floor flange), and got stuck sideways
across the bottom.

You can either continue with the auger or pull the toilet and see if
you can tell what the problem is from the other end. Pulling the
toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set
the bowl.

I have had items that I couldn't get out of the toilet, and found out
what they were after I replaced the toilet and busted the old one open
to see what the problem was.

I was going to post yesterday and suggest that you get a better auger,
from General or Rigid, that would have cost $40-50, but I thought the
cheaper one would probably work for you. If you really want to got
out and spend $45 towards fixing the problem, this would be my choice.

JK


Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).

Thanks again, Big Jake!!

Mike
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

Mike wrote:
Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).



I'm hardly the world's authority on pulling toilets but I was able to do one by
myself after watching somebody else do one first. Not much to it... run the
kids off, turn off the water supply, flush, disconnect from the water supply,
loosen the two bolts that hold it to the floor, and then muscle it off the
drain. Be prepared to deal with some water left in the bowl.

Scrape off the old wax ring and replace it with a new one. Slide the toilet
back on the mounting bolts and sit down on the throne to seat it into the new
wax ring. On and off shouldn't take more than half an hour for a newbie.
Chances are the cause of your problem will present itself very shortly after you
free the beast from the floor.

It might be a scary job the first time you do it but it won't be the second.
It's just not that bad... it's the dreading that's bad.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com


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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

Big_Jake wrote:

-snip-
STOP!

The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to
clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of
the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger,
or will be too big to get through the trapway.


I agree-- it isn't that much work to pull the toilet which is the
most likely culprit. And if it isn't- snaking the drain sans
toilet is infinitely easier.

-snip-
Pulling the
toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set
the bowl.

-snip-

I'd go for the rubber one. $5 vs $2 , but easier to install- and the
re-usability factor might come in handy if we're all correct in our
assumption that one of the rugrats is sending things to the ocean via
the sewers.

Jim
[oh- and I'd pull it- then if necessary buy a snake. Handy critters
to have in the garage on a Saturday night with a house full of
company]


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On Mar 20, 11:35 am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).


Thanks again, Big Jake!!


Mike


Sorry the closet auger I suggested didn't do the job.


I finally had to bring up my trusty and rusty 20 foot hand snake and
spent another 10 minutes or so running it in and out until the toilet
flushed as well as I'd remembered it used to.


If that same friend ever asks to use our guest toilet again I'm gonna
take him aside and ask if he'd please ****e in stages, flushing after
each one. G

Jeff


Jeff - the closet auger was a great suggestion. I can't believe I
haven't needed one up to this point. You mentioned your 20 foot
snake. I think I saw something like that at Home Depot yesterday when
I was getting the auger (I wanted to examine it a bit further but one
of the rugrats darted off into the Garden Department and I had to
go). What I'm referring to kinda looked like a flexible metal cable
inside a tea-pot. Is that about what you have? Maybe I'll go back
this evening and pick up one of those. I'm bound to need it again at
some point!

Thanks again!

Mike
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Mike wrote:
On Mar 20, 9:43 am, Big_Jake wrote:

On Mar 20, 8:29 am, Mike wrote:

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.


Thanks...


Mike


STOP!

The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to
clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of
the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger,
or will be too big to get through the trapway.

I have cleared at least 100 clogged toilets as a landlord. I have
removed toys, spoons, the top of a water bottle, hair extensions, and
countless other items. Perhaps one of the most unexpected things was
a tampon applicator that got all the way to the bottom of the toilet
(where the toilet meets the floor flange), and got stuck sideways
across the bottom.

You can either continue with the auger or pull the toilet and see if
you can tell what the problem is from the other end. Pulling the
toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set
the bowl.

I have had items that I couldn't get out of the toilet, and found out
what they were after I replaced the toilet and busted the old one open
to see what the problem was.

I was going to post yesterday and suggest that you get a better auger,
from General or Rigid, that would have cost $40-50, but I thought the
cheaper one would probably work for you. If you really want to got
out and spend $45 towards fixing the problem, this would be my choice.

JK



Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).

Thanks again, Big Jake!!

Mike


Sorry the closet auger I suggested didn't do the job.

If you do pull the toilet, go easy when tightening the hold down bolts
when replacing it.

You don't want to crack the base or pull the hold down bolts through the
pipe flange.

With no small kids in our house we don't have problems with undisolvable
miscellany dropped into our toilets and jamming in the traps, and rarely
have use for even a toilet plunger, though I do keep one in each bathroom.

However, a couple of months ago a good friend and his wife came to our
home for coffee and desert after we'd all been out together. The guy is
a giant of a man, tall and stout and he asked to use our guest bathroom
prior to leaving for their 45 minute drive home. He came out with an
embarrassed look on his face and asked me if he could use a plunger. I
showed him where one of those plastic "accordian style" ones was hanging
behind the doors which hide a clothes washer/dryer in that bathroom and
he came out a while later, saying, "It's OK now."

After they left I took a leak in the same toilet and noticed it flushed
extremely slowly. I brought up my closet auger and went to work on it.
The head of the auger came out stuffed with ****e, and after augering
for quite a while there was some improvement in the flushing, but it was
still subpar.

I finally had to bring up my trusty and rusty 20 foot hand snake and
spent another 10 minutes or so running it in and out until the toilet
flushed as well as I'd remembered it used to.

That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad. They now
remind me of my friend's giant turds every time I'm taking a leak and
looking down there.

If that same friend ever asks to use our guest toilet again I'm gonna
take him aside and ask if he'd please ****e in stages, flushing after
each one. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

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Mike wrote in message ...
I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake

for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I

can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike


Someone in this newsgroup told me to try the advice posted when I had
a problem similar to your. It worked beautifully, and no more slow
running toilet. This is what he told me to do, which I did, using
Muriatic Acid. I didn't wear safety glasses, but I did have the window
open.

Cheri


It was me, it works awesome!

First IDEALLY the toilet bowl will have NO water in it! So plunge or
sponge out the water in the bottom of the bowl.

Tank water doesnt matter.

Wear safety glasses, have window on or exhaust fan on.

Use funnel pour about a cup down the dip tube, and perhaps a cup in
the bowl. Work pretty fast.

Like take a deep breathe, hold it, pour in acid, leave room wear
rubber gloves.

Shut door wait 15 minutes, flush repeatedly like 5 to 10 times.

Actually despite the warnings muriatic acid is pretty mild, you DONt
want it in your eyes or splashed on floor or belongings but I touched
some just to see, my finger didnt rot off

dO IT TWICE IF NECESSARY, you will likely see lots of brown gunk from




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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 20, 6:29*am, Mike wrote:
I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). *Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. *I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) *I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. *I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. *One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. *He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. *I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? *I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike


Have you tried snaking the vent? The vent is the pipe that comes off
the top of your roof. It is used to displace the water that goes into
the drain. The vent can be blocked by something as simple as rust
buildup or even an unlucky rat.
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On Mar 20, 12:02 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.


Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.


Thanks...


Mike


Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I
would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull
and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even
going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big
deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car
and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't
even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating
and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to
be doing this again at some point.


Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the
toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this.
Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush
anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I
don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when
I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him
if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up
for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's
got at least one of EVERYTHING.

Thanks again everyone!

Mike

P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion!
Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?


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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad.


Jeff,

Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.

Some kitchen pans will leave metal on the sink, occasionally. It
cleans up with the powder cleaners.

Not a suggestion, but I might even try Muriactic acid and see it
helped. Maybe a half cup poured into the bowl.
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Mike wrote:
On Mar 20, 11:35 am, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from
knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug
some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My
father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek
his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal
about home repairs).


Thanks again, Big Jake!!


Mike


Sorry the closet auger I suggested didn't do the job.


I finally had to bring up my trusty and rusty 20 foot hand snake and
spent another 10 minutes or so running it in and out until the toilet
flushed as well as I'd remembered it used to.


If that same friend ever asks to use our guest toilet again I'm gonna
take him aside and ask if he'd please ****e in stages, flushing after
each one. G

Jeff



Jeff - the closet auger was a great suggestion. I can't believe I
haven't needed one up to this point. You mentioned your 20 foot
snake. I think I saw something like that at Home Depot yesterday when
I was getting the auger (I wanted to examine it a bit further but one
of the rugrats darted off into the Garden Department and I had to
go). What I'm referring to kinda looked like a flexible metal cable
inside a tea-pot. Is that about what you have?



Not quite. Mine is probably 35 years old, it's just a 20 foot long piece
of the same sort of cable that's in a closet auger, with a "crank
handle" made from a piece of steel tubing with a pair slight offset
bends in it and a thumbscrew to secure it anywhere along the snake's
length. Then you grab that handle with both hands and rotate the snake
with it as though your hands were feet on bicycle pedals.

To store it I have to roll it into a circle and secure it with a twist-tie.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Maybe I'll go back
this evening and pick up one of those. I'm bound to need it again at
some point!

Thanks again!

Mike


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Oren wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad.



Jeff,

Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.


Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the bowl
with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen sponges
with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.

They're not really terrible, but I can still see them.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


Some kitchen pans will leave metal on the sink, occasionally. It
cleans up with the powder cleaners.

Not a suggestion, but I might even try Muriactic acid and see it
helped. Maybe a half cup poured into the bowl.




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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:39:56 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

Oren wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad.



Jeff,

Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.


Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the bowl
with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen sponges
with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.

They're not really terrible, but I can still see them.

Jeff


Next time you stick the snake in the next toilet; try wrapping cloth
around it, old T shirt, terry cloth pieces, just something to prevent
marks in the bowl.

(G) only a trained eye can see them!
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Jeff Wisnia wrote in message ...
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches

inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad.



Jeff,

Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it

will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.


Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the

bowl
with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen

sponges
with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.



Try a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser...damn, those things work great on
removing just about anything.

Cheri




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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:59:25 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


Jeff Wisnia wrote in message ...
Oren wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:35:13 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet
scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches

inside
that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad.


Jeff,

Have you tried Bon Ami Cleaning Powder /Comet/Ajax to see if it

will
remove the marks? Remove the water, then scrub with damp powder.


Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the

bowl
with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen

sponges
with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.



Try a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser...damn, those things work great on
removing just about anything.

Cheri


Haven't thought about them

My next move was a 1000 grit wet emory sandpaper.

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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

Ahh stop a moment

Does the toilet flush solids fine with a bucket of water? if so the
interior water passages and bowl rim are likely the problem, its
easily solved for under 10 bucks and 15 minutes, no removing the
toilet necessary

you key statement was stuff spinning around,.

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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 20, 7:11*pm, " wrote:
Ahh stop a moment

Does the toilet flush solids fine with a bucket of water? if so the
interior water passages and bowl rim are likely the problem, its
easily solved for under 10 bucks and 15 minutes, no removing the
toilet necessary

you key statement was stuff spinning around,.


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told you
all the wrong thing ! 1 I f you can't get it out with a toilet auger
then you need to lift the toilet . 2 don't waste your money on a big
snake just a waste of time , Take the bowl up use a waxring not rubber
as they dry out if you use toilet bowl cleaner . 3 Once the bowl is up
run snake thru the reverse way don't ever use rag wrapped to the auger
as if you get it caught in the bowl you have two plugs not one. 4 if
still won't work get a pro or if the unit is older than 15 yrs get a
new toilet. Iam a master plumber so you don't have to believe me if
you want. And when you seat a ring don't seat on it right off just
rock side to side and back to front slowly rocking when you have ot
on the floor solid then seat slowly on it , if you seat on it right
away you push wax over your pipe opening.
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

The water in the bowl is not clean, there is all sorts of nasties in there.
This however is probably not going to be a problem unless you have open
sores. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards.

Pull the toilet, carry it out to the lawn, turn it upside down and stuff the
garden hose in from the bottom.

After you have cleared the blockage, use a mirror and check the little holes
under the rim. Often these get gunked up and having the hose handy makes
cleaning and flushing these hole out easy at this point. A chunk of coat
hanger wire is handy also

While you have the toilet pulled, if you have any touch up paint left over
you can now paint behind the toilet.

Also while you have the toilet out, it is a good time to change the gasket
between the tank and the bowl, and clean really good in all the nooks and
crannies. If you do not already have one, invest in a 1/4 turn ball valve
for the supply and replace the supply line with the good stainless braided
line. The price of these parts is a whole lot cheaper than fixing water
damage in the future.

If the toilet has ever ran or the internals have ever given you grief, now
is a good time to replace them. The FluidMaster fill valve is a reliable
brand and a whole lot better than the ball on the rod floats. A good
quality flush valve and you are done.

When reinstalling, once you have seated the bowl, and are sure their is no
leaks, a small bead of caulk around the base may be a good idea, especially
around the front and sides.

Start early in case you need to make multiple trips to the hardware store,
or something goes wrong.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.


"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 12:02 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.


Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.


Thanks...


Mike


Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I
would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull
and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even
going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big
deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car
and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't
even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating
and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to
be doing this again at some point.


Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the
toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this.
Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush
anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I
don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when
I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him
if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up
for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's
got at least one of EVERYTHING.

Thanks again everyone!

Mike

P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion!
Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?



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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

before you pull toilet, confirm does it flush well with a bucket of
water??????

if not pull toilet.........

if it flushes fine with a bucket pulling toilet will do no good at
all.............

muriatic acid placed carefully will clean out the interior passages of
the toilet 20 minutes and 10 bucks if you need saftety glasses.

safe effective fast and cheap. works amazingly well as another poster
reported here, i am the one who told him about it



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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 21, 8:45�am, " wrote:
before you pull toilet, confirm does it flush well with a bucket of
water??????

if not pull toilet.........

if it flushes fine with a bucket pulling toilet will do no good at
all.............

muriatic acid placed carefully will clean out the interior passages of
the toilet 20 minutes and 10 bucks if you need saftety glasses.

safe effective fast and cheap. works amazingly well as another poster
reported here, i am the one who told him about it


when you flush the toilet actually creates a wave that moves the waste
solids into the large bottom drain & trap.

but you must have enough flow to start the wave, over time sediment
builds up in the interir water passages bowl rim ald slows the flow of
fresh water. at some point stuff just swirls around....

watch under the bowl rim, often gunk built up clogging the exit holes.

you can use a coathanger end to open the holes some but the sediment
still fills the bowl rim and cant be reached.

put on safety glasses, plunge drain bowl water, sponge is good idea
so bowl is completely empty tank water can remain as is.

put funnel in dip tube top pour a cup or two of acid in funnel. and
some in bowl no splashing have window open and take deep breathe
first, then leave room shut door wait at least 15 minutes.

then return and flush about 15 times to dilute all remaing acid. you
will see brown goo, thats the melted sediment.

this really works
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

ALL that and he might just as well spend the $118 and have a new one.

s


"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
The water in the bowl is not clean, there is all sorts of nasties in
there.
This however is probably not going to be a problem unless you have open
sores. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards.

Pull the toilet, carry it out to the lawn, turn it upside down and stuff
the
garden hose in from the bottom.

After you have cleared the blockage, use a mirror and check the little
holes
under the rim. Often these get gunked up and having the hose handy makes
cleaning and flushing these hole out easy at this point. A chunk of coat
hanger wire is handy also

While you have the toilet pulled, if you have any touch up paint left over
you can now paint behind the toilet.

Also while you have the toilet out, it is a good time to change the gasket
between the tank and the bowl, and clean really good in all the nooks and
crannies. If you do not already have one, invest in a 1/4 turn ball valve
for the supply and replace the supply line with the good stainless braided
line. The price of these parts is a whole lot cheaper than fixing water
damage in the future.

If the toilet has ever ran or the internals have ever given you grief, now
is a good time to replace them. The FluidMaster fill valve is a reliable
brand and a whole lot better than the ball on the rod floats. A good
quality flush valve and you are done.

When reinstalling, once you have seated the bowl, and are sure their is no
leaks, a small bead of caulk around the base may be a good idea,
especially
around the front and sides.

Start early in case you need to make multiple trips to the hardware store,
or something goes wrong.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.


"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 12:02 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike

Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I
would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull
and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even
going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big
deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car
and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't
even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating
and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to
be doing this again at some point.


Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the
toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this.
Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush
anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I
don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when
I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him
if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up
for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's
got at least one of EVERYTHING.

Thanks again everyone!

Mike

P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion!
Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?





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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake


P.S. �Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion!
Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?


hardware or big box, used for cleaning brick etc

  #24   Report Post  
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KLS KLS is offline
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Posts: 410
Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:02:58 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

ALL that and he might just as well spend the $118 and have a new one.


Yeah, and filled up more landfills. Nice. Toilets aren't disposable
or biodegradable items, despite what you think.

"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message
...
The water in the bowl is not clean, there is all sorts of nasties in
there.
This however is probably not going to be a problem unless you have open
sores. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards.

Pull the toilet, carry it out to the lawn, turn it upside down and stuff
the
garden hose in from the bottom.

After you have cleared the blockage, use a mirror and check the little
holes
under the rim. Often these get gunked up and having the hose handy makes
cleaning and flushing these hole out easy at this point. A chunk of coat
hanger wire is handy also

While you have the toilet pulled, if you have any touch up paint left over
you can now paint behind the toilet.

Also while you have the toilet out, it is a good time to change the gasket
between the tank and the bowl, and clean really good in all the nooks and
crannies. If you do not already have one, invest in a 1/4 turn ball valve
for the supply and replace the supply line with the good stainless braided
line. The price of these parts is a whole lot cheaper than fixing water
damage in the future.

If the toilet has ever ran or the internals have ever given you grief, now
is a good time to replace them. The FluidMaster fill valve is a reliable
brand and a whole lot better than the ball on the rod floats. A good
quality flush valve and you are done.

When reinstalling, once you have seated the bowl, and are sure their is no
leaks, a small bead of caulk around the base may be a good idea,
especially
around the front and sides.

Start early in case you need to make multiple trips to the hardware store,
or something goes wrong.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.


"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 12:02 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently
turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then
stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it
did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I
did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but
after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement.
(There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the
auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd
rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a
messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for
$45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop
somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.

Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can
plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.

Thanks...

Mike

Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I
would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull
and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even
going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big
deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car
and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't
even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating
and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to
be doing this again at some point.

Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the
toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this.
Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush
anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I
don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when
I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him
if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up
for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's
got at least one of EVERYTHING.

Thanks again everyone!

Mike

P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion!
Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?




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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:

Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.

Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?

AHR has experts?!


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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told

you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions, I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.

Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.

I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.

I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.

glad i could help, bob
  #27   Report Post  
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

professional plumbers wouldnt use acid, there would be little or no
profit in it. most would just replace the toilet.........
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake


Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:

Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told

you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.

Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?

AHR has experts?!




The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions, I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.

Cheri


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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

And your point is?



s



"KLS" wrote in message
...

Yeah, and filled up more landfills. Nice. Toilets aren't disposable
or biodegradable items, despite what you think.



  #30   Report Post  
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KLS KLS is offline
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Posts: 410
Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:17:32 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

And your point is?


That your suggestion was not only more expensive than the other
poster's, but also thoughtless and stupid.


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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:19:13 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told

you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the

better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions,

I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very

helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.

Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.

I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.

I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.

glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.

Cheri


I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.

A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))

So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.

Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.

We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger

BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.



  #33   Report Post  
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jim jim is offline
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Posts: 206
Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 22, 3:04*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:19:13 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:







wrote in message ...
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told
you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the

better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions,

I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very

helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.


Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.


I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.


I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.


glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.


Cheri


I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.

A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. *BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))

So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.

Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.

We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger

BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Did they also tell you Muratic Acid will corrode China and abs pipe so
use carefully , not the best thing to do to often don.t recomend to
people as there is some danger of boil up in the boil if the water you
use is to hot . Also open your window as sulpharic acid fumes will be
produced. Have only used once in 27 yrs of plumbing if you know how to
snake you won't need to.
  #34   Report Post  
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:

On Mar 22, 3:04*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:19:13 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:







wrote in message ...
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told
you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the
better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions,
I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very
helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.


Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.


I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.


I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.


glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.


Cheri


I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.

A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. *BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))

So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.

Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.

We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger

BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Did they also tell you Muratic Acid will corrode China and abs pipe so
use carefully , not the best thing to do to often don.t recomend to
people as there is some danger of boil up in the boil if the water you
use is to hot . Also open your window as sulpharic acid fumes will be
produced. Have only used once in 27 yrs of plumbing if you know how to
snake you won't need to.


You can't put a snake up a bowl rim, right? Yes acid vs use in a
toilet has been discussed here - previous.
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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

On Mar 22, 4:45�pm, jim wrote:
On Mar 22, 3:04�pm, Oren wrote:





On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:19:13 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told
you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the
better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions,
I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very
helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.


Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.


I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.


I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.


glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.


Cheri


I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.


A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. �BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))


So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.


Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.


We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger


BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Did they also tell you Muratic Acid will corrode China and abs pipe so
use carefully , not the best thing to do to often don.t recomend to
people as there is some danger of boil up in the boil if the water you
use is to hot . Also open your window as sulpharic acid fumes will be
produced. Have only used once in 27 yrs of plumbing if you know how to
snake you won't need to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


as i said you put it in wait 15 minutes and flush 15 times, normally
toilet water isnt hot, and i always say open window take deep breathe,
poor get out shut door.

snake cant clean interior sediment..........

acid sounds scary but really it isnt, and no worse than other stuff
like drain cleaner


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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

In ,
jim wrote:

On Mar 22, 3:04*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:19:13 -0800, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


wrote in message ...
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told
you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the
better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions,
I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very
helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.


Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.


I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.


I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.


glad i could help, bob
******
OK, thanks again. I have saved your name now, so when I post that info
I can give you credit.


Cheri


I read Bob's tip here. One day I was going to try it out. I use acid
for my pool and had some handy. My neighbor had a rental property
going on the market, so he asked me to do some handy stuff.

A toilet had a leak at the tank bolt - around the washer. It was a
slow leak. I found it using a paper towel and flushing the toilet a
few times. *BEFORE I could even work one this nasty thing I poured
some acid in the bowl to start a cleaning process :-))

So, I removed the tank for the bolt replacement kit. While I had the
tank off I poured muriatic acid directly in the (throat?) bowl rim.

Allowed that to work; suddenly I look down and see an object. Get my
glasses out, grabbed the needle nose pliers and then pulled a syringe
out of the rim of the bowl. The acid had floated the syringe back
towards the throat and I could see it.

We have hard water, and acid will cut it from the rim holes. Faster
than using a coat hanger

BTW, It was a drug house so I can see how they must have hidden the
needle in the tank and it found it's way into the bowl rim, past the
flapper. A bad flush can then be any object in the tank getting past
the flapper and into the rim.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Did they also tell you Muratic Acid will corrode China and abs pipe so
use carefully , not the best thing to do to often don.t recomend to
people as there is some danger of boil up in the boil if the water you
use is to hot . Also open your window as sulpharic acid fumes will be
produced. Have only used once in 27 yrs of plumbing if you know how to
snake you won't need to.


Muriatic acid does not affect any of the usual plastics, and I don't
see a problem with ABS. Once mixed with water, it produces only very
minimal fumes. (More concentrated muriatic acid produces more significant
fumes, though not in huge amounts.) Its fumes are not anything sulfuric,
but hydrogen chloride (which are harmful if inhaled in strong
concentrations - they form hydrochloric acid in lungs and anyplace else
wet/moist).

Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid. Freshman college chemistry classes
and some highschool chemistry classes have students using hydrochloric
acid in 6-molar concentration, which has pH less than zero. However, a
skin splash of this is pretty much a non-event if it is rinsed off right
away. I would not want to get it in my eyes - but they say it's not the
worst thing that can happen - they say strong alkalis are worse on skin
and eyes, and have greater urgency to rinse away and neutralize with weak
opposite. (Strong oxidizing acids such as nitric are worse, and
concentrated sulfuric also causes nasty dehydration reactions, including
carbonization of sugar. Battery acid is sulfuric, but not concentrated
enough to carbonize sugar. The bad effects here are mainly from chemical
aspects other than acidity, and not problems of muriatic/hydrochloric.)

I would worry about china, and use muriatic acid only rarely and keep
exposure to limited amount of time and still not be surprised if the
finish changes.

Muriatic acid will eat away at iron and most steels. It does not do
much to copper, but quickly dissolves copper oxide and a few other copper
corrosion products such as copper carbonate - and metal oxides and metal
carbonates in general. It very slowly attacks solder - so it should be
flushed away with very generous amounts of water after a reasonable amount
of time.
Copper pipes in older/worse condition may sometimes have a solder joint
crack or some other little gap plugged up with corrosion that is easily
dissolved by acid - and such flaws may start leaking when or shortly
after you use the acid. I don't consider this common, but still something
to watch for. (Though in my experience drain pipes are usually not
copper.)

A few municipalities (primarily Chicago and Philadelphia IIRC) have
plumbing codes requiring iron/steel drain pipes from homes to sewer lines.
The politically powerful plumbers union lobbies to maintain requirement
for heavier weight pipes that require more man-hours in those cities.
I would not leave acid sitting in one of those drain lines - flush away
with *a lot* of water after several minutes or a fraction of an hour, and
still use acid rarely.

Sulfuric acid is sold to plumbers for unclogging pipes. When mixed with
water to a concentration much less than something like 84% H2SO4 16% H2O
by weight, or close to 75% H2SO4 25% H2O by volume, it loses most of its
nasty effects other than acidity (pH probably still something like -.7 at
that point as an educated guess).

However, even still, strong acids when mixed with water may generate
enough heat to be a problem. But I see at most minor problem here from
muriatic, since it already contains a fair amount of water. Pure HCL is
not even liquid at room temperature and atmospheric pressure - it is a
gas, and liquid hydrochloric is a good part water!

========================================

Do as you oughtta - add acid to water
To get your eyes blasted, add water to acid

(Adding small amounts of water to strong acid can cause the mixture to
boil and spatter. Not-so-small amounts of water added to strong acid can
occaisionally still be a problem if boiling starts before enough water
mixes in to cool things. Even if you add acid to water, if you do this in
a chemistry lab you should stir/mix to whatever extent is feasible to
minimize significant "hotspots" of slightly diluted acid.)

========================================

- Don Klipstein )
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Similar occurrings here.

I've taken to leaving what I'll call a "dandelion weeder", looks like
a big screwdriver but with V-shaped head, on floor near toilet, making
it possible to break up the occasional truly huge and almost as hard
as rock "bombs".

I also know that a change of diet and of water, like when on a trip
out of the country, can result in several days of nothing at all, and
then EL GRANDE that no toilet, other than an outdoor latrine, can
handle.

Embarrassing -- having to ask for a hammer and chisel! :-)

(BTW, that was a joke, those last three words)


David




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Default I plunged, I auged, now I'll reckon I'll rent a snake

In article ,
wrote:
On Mar 21, 11:05�pm, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote:
Oren wrote in message ...
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT), jim
wrote:


Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told

you
all the wrong thing !


Cheri, hallerb and Oren can say the acid works.


Oren won't pull a toilet; until he uses the water test - 5 gallons
forced in rapidly. If it goes down, there's not a clog?


AHR has experts?!


�The muriatic acid solution that was posted here was one of the better
tips I've ever had, especially since I had spent $300.00 having my
lines snaked not long before that, and the toilet still wasn't
flushing right until I tried that tip.When I saved the instructions, I
accidently cut off the part that said who suggested it, because I'd
like to give him credit. You know who you are, but I don't
remember...many thanks to you. Also, this group has been very helpful
to me, and I appreciate it very much.

Cheri


no thanks necessary but its me bob haller.

I stumbled on to it for a friend who was afraid she needed a new
toilet, its nice to help people.

I also promote rock salt micxed with water to kill tree roots in
sewers. its cheap and works amazingly well.

glad i could help, bob



Questions to expert:

1: HOW MUCH rock salt, water, etc to kill roots.

And how do you actually do it?

Won't the mix just run on over the root and keep going
downhill. How to make it stay there surrounding root,
so it gets taken-up by it?


2: Muriatic Acid: same questions, basically:

How much, for how long, etc.

Dangers?





3: As for long snakes (toilet-snakes!), don't they come with a bent hollow
tube through which you feed the snake down the hole, thus keeping
away any *visible* scratches?

Thanks

David


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