I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

On Mar 18, 8:46�pm, "BETA-33" wrote:
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. �From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. �The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. �I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets

BETA-33 wrote:

I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

Check to see if the original metal box is grounded. The cheap little
plug in testers will do the job. Depending on the age of the house you
might have the early romex with ground and the metal boxes are grounded,
but ungrounded receptacles were used. If that's the case you can convert
to grounded receptacles with relative ease.

attach them both to the metal boxes with a green grounding screw. fyi: if
you want real grounding protection for both outlets you can install a gfci
to the first one and run the other off of that, then both would be grounded.
-c

"BETA-33" wrote in message
...
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire
receptacles, I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am
adding. The wire I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the
12/2 wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to
the metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

On Mar 18, 9:46*pm, "BETA-33" wrote:
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. *From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. *The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. *I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

Interesting situation.

Ideally, you would like to follow the info given in the *second* Q2 at
this site:

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarch...s~20050510.php

You can replace the first outlet with a GFCI receptacle and then
replace the downstream outlets with 3 pronged outlets, You won't gain
an equipment ground, but you will gain protection for the users as
well as the convenience of being able to plug in three prong cords
without an adaptor. If the circuit isn't grounded, you shouldn't being
using an adaptor anyway.

However, as noted at that site, the permission to use 3 pronged
receptacles on an ungrounded circuit applies to existing receptacles
only, not to new (branch-circuit extention) receptacles.

Feel free to use that information as you see fit.

"Chris Miller" wrote in message
...
attach them both to the metal boxes with a green grounding screw. fyi: if
you want real grounding protection for both outlets you can install a gfci
to the first one and run the other off of that, then both would be
grounded.
-c

If the circuit isn't grounded to begin with, installing a GFCI won't cause
it to become grounded. Installing a GFCI at the beginning of the circuit
causes the circuit to be GFCI protected, not grounded

"BETA-33" wrote in message
...
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire
receptacles, I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am
adding. The wire I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the
12/2 wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to
the metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I don't
know if that is called BX or whatever.

"Pete C." wrote in message
. net...

Check to see if the original metal box is grounded. The cheap little
plug in testers will do the job.

I'll do that.

Depending on the age of the house you
might have the early romex with ground and the metal boxes are grounded,
but ungrounded receptacles were used. If that's the case you can convert
to grounded receptacles with relative ease.

I am not looking to convert to grounded outlets right now. For now, I just
want to add one receptacle. It can be a 2-wire like all of the rest of the
receptacles as far as I am concerned, but that leaves me with the question
of what to do with the bare wire in the 12/2.

"BETA-33" wrote in message
...
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire
receptacles, I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am
adding. The wire I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the
12/2 wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to
the metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.


Your new receptacle should be ran to the service panel so that it will be
grounded.

BETA-33 wrote:
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I don't
know if that is called BX or whatever.

No, that's Romex (trade name, but what they hey, it's what it's called).

If it's 12/2 w/no g, then the boxes aren't grounded (there's no ground
to ground them with) so it really doesn't matter too much what you do w/
the new ground wire--it won't be grounded to anything, either.

But, it won't hurt anything (nor help anything, either, of course) to
connect the ground wire to the metal boxes at each end. Then, if you do
go back and add the ground back to the panel, that's done for the new one.

--

--

"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp

On Mar 19, 6:12�am, "RBM" wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message

. ..

wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. �I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if the OP has k&T things will get interesting here..........

Is the main fuses r circuit breakers?

On Mar 18, 10:43*pm, "BETA-33" wrote:
"Pete C." wrote in message

. net...



Check to see if the original metal box is grounded. The cheap little
plug in testers will do the job.

I'll do that.

Depending on the age of the house you
might have the early romex with ground and the metal boxes are grounded,
but ungrounded receptacles were used. If that's the case you can convert
to grounded receptacles with relative ease.

I am not looking to convert to grounded outlets right now. *For now, I just
want to add one receptacle. * It can be a 2-wire like all of the rest of the
receptacles as far as I am concerned, but that leaves me with the question
of what to do with the bare wire in the 12/2.

that leaves me with the question of what to do with the bare wire
in the 12/2

Well, the *easy* answer is to simply attach it to each metal box. If
the circuit is grounded, your new recetacle will be grounded. If it
isn't, no harm, no foul.

Pete C. wrote:
BETA-33 wrote:
I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.

Check to see if the original metal box is grounded. The cheap little
plug in testers will do the job. Depending on the age of the house you
might have the early romex with ground and the metal boxes are grounded,
but ungrounded receptacles were used. If that's the case you can convert
to grounded receptacles with relative ease.
..
The first problem is pluging the tester in when the outlet should be 2
wire. Simple plug in testers can tell you there isn't a ground. They
can't reliably tell you there is a good ground - they test with a very
low current. RBM's idea of a pigtail socket and light bulb is better.

I agree that a GFCI outlet that protects the downstream outlets is a
good idea. Downstream outlets can then be grounded type, even though
they are not grounded. Mark them as in the Mike Holt link.

If there is no ground I would try to avoid attaching the ground wire to
the boxes. If you had an event that makes one box hot they will all
become hot. If you have a GFCI outlet and protected downstream grounded
type outlets all the outlet grounds will be hot. (But the GFCI should
protect you.) The bare ground wire could be insulated with tape.

--
bud--

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:46:13 -0400, "BETA-33"
wrote:

I have a house with 2-wire receptacles. From one of the 2-wire receptacles,
I want to run a line to a new 2-wire receptacle that I am adding. The wire
I have to run the line is 12/2.

The question I have is, "What do I do with the bare ground wire in the 12/2
wire?"

The original 2-wire receptacle box and the new 2-wire receptacle box are
metal. I am assuming that I should NOT connect the bare ground wire to the
metal box on either end.

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

Thanks.



If your 2-wire electrical outlet is allowable, then just fold back the
unused ground wire. Do not install a 3-hole outlet if it is not
properly grounded. However since this is a safety issue, it would be
a very good investment and wise to upgrade all 2-wire outlets to
grounded outlets.

If your 2-wire electrical outlet is allowable, then just fold back the
unused ground wire. �Do not install a 3-hole outlet if it is not
properly grounded. �However since this is a safety issue, it would be
a very good investment and wise to upgrade all 2-wire outlets to
grounded outlets.-

yeah homes around here were all 2 prong 1950 vintage

I upgraded 2 to all grounded added GFCIs and helped some neighbors do
the same. BX made it easy

new 2 prong outlets are still made but not commonly sold

According to Phisherman :
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:46:13 -0400, "BETA-33"
wrote:

Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?

If your 2-wire electrical outlet is allowable, then just fold back the
unused ground wire. Do not install a 3-hole outlet if it is not
properly grounded. However since this is a safety issue, it would be
a very good investment and wise to upgrade all 2-wire outlets to
grounded outlets.


Code says that if you install a 3-hole outlet, it MUST either be
properly grounded OR, have a GFCI upstream of it (and have a "protected by
GFCI" sticker applied to the new outlet).

_If_ you're relying on GFCI instead of true grounding for a new 3 hole
outlet, its box and receptacle grounding terminal MUST NOT be interconnected
to any other ungrounded outlets, including the GFCI. So, if you use three
wire to connect from an ungrounded GFCI to an ungrounded 3 hole outlet,
the ground wire should (as Phisherman says) not be connected.

The reason for this being that if you have a series of outlets with
ground interconnect, but no true ground, a hot-ground fault in any device
on any outlet, makes all the other 3-wire devices on all of the outlets
live. Which could even include plumbing segments (sinks, taps etc),
appliance enclosures etc. At least with a GFCI, it should trip and
prevent you getting electrocuted. Without a GFCI or if it fails ... ouch.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Mar 19, 9:41*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 18, 10:43*pm, "BETA-33" wrote:





"Pete C." wrote in message

.net...

Check to see if the original metal box is grounded. The cheap little
plug in testers will do the job.

I'll do that.

Depending on the age of the house you
might have the early romex with ground and the metal boxes are grounded,
but ungrounded receptacles were used. If that's the case you can convert
to grounded receptacles with relative ease.

I am not looking to convert to grounded outlets right now. *For now, I just
want to add one receptacle. * It can be a 2-wire like all of the rest of the
receptacles as far as I am concerned, but that leaves me with the question
of what to do with the bare wire in the 12/2.

that leaves me with the question of what to do with the bare wire
in the 12/2

Well, the *easy* answer is to simply attach it to each metal box. If
the circuit is grounded, your new recetacle will be grounded. If it
isn't, no harm, no foul.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My apologies for this suggestion. I stand corrected.

On Mar 19, 3:15*pm, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to Phisherman :

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:46:13 -0400, "BETA-33"
wrote:
Is that correct, or am I supposed to attach the bare ground wire to each
metal receptacle box even though I don't know if either box is grounded?
If your 2-wire electrical outlet is allowable, then just fold back the
unused ground wire. *Do not install a 3-hole outlet if it is not
properly grounded. *However since this is a safety issue, it would be
a very good investment and wise to upgrade all 2-wire outlets to
grounded outlets.

Code says that if you install a 3-hole outlet, it MUST either be
properly grounded OR, have a GFCI upstream of it (and have a "protected by
GFCI" sticker applied to the new outlet).

_If_ you're relying on GFCI instead of true grounding for a new 3 hole
outlet, its box and receptacle grounding terminal MUST NOT be interconnected
to any other ungrounded outlets, including the GFCI. *So, if you use three
wire to connect from an ungrounded GFCI to an ungrounded 3 hole outlet,
the ground wire should (as Phisherman says) not be connected.

The reason for this being that if you have a series of outlets with
ground interconnect, but no true ground, a hot-ground fault in any device
on any outlet, makes all the other 3-wire devices on all of the outlets
live. *Which could even include plumbing segments (sinks, taps etc),
appliance enclosures etc. *At least with a GFCI, it should trip and
prevent you getting electrocuted. *Without a GFCI or if it fails ... ouch.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Code says that if you install a 3-hole outlet, it MUST either be
properly grounded OR, have a GFCI upstream of it

But doesn't code also say that the GFCI protection option is only
available for existing receptacles? I've found conflicting info on the
web, but most of the info I've found say the old circuits are
grandfathered, but anything new (like the OP's) situation is not
allowed to be simply protected by a GFCI and must be properly
grounded.

Do you know the definitive answer?

wrote in message
...
On Mar 19, 6:12?am, "RBM" wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message

. ..

wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. ?I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if the OP has k&T things will get interesting here..........

Is the main fuses r circuit breakers?

You must have gotten knocked on the head with K&T as a child. The OP already
said what he has and it ain't K&T

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
.....,
If there is no ground I would try to avoid attaching the ground wire to
the boxes. If you had an event that makes one box hot they will all become
hot. If you have a GFCI outlet and protected downstream grounded type
outlets all the outlet grounds will be hot. (But the GFCI should protect
you.) The bare ground wire could be insulated with tape.


Ahah! Thanks. I thought I remembered reading something about that
somewhere, but I wasn't sure. So, I was wondering if connecting the ground
wire to the metal could actually end up creating a potential hazard rather
than eliminating one.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

Code says that if you install a 3-hole outlet, it MUST either be
properly grounded OR, have a GFCI upstream of it

But doesn't code also say that the GFCI protection option is only
available for existing receptacles? I've found conflicting info on the
web, but most of the info I've found say the old circuits are
grandfathered, but anything new (like the OP's) situation is not
allowed to be simply protected by a GFCI and must be properly
grounded.

Do you know the definitive answer?

Yes you are right. I didn't catch the problem even when you pointed it
out the first time. The 2 wire circuit cannot be extended unless a
ground is picked up for the new boxes. For an extension that can be a
separate wire to permitted locations - usually anywhere on the grounding
electrode system or the branch circuit panel ground bar. (250.130-C)

Nice catch.

--
bud

RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp


What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

"John Ross" wrote in message
...



RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp


What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...


RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.
Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp
..
What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

..
http://www.hardwareworld.com/124-Pig...t-p10KB8E.aspx

bud-- wrote:
RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...


RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.
Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp
.
What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

.
http://www.hardwareworld.com/124-Pig...t-p10KB8E.aspx

That page says it's rated 660W and 240V. I assume the 660 is a typo
for 60? But what about 240V, would that work for a regular household
outlet?

Also, in another thread, you mentioned the plug in testers were not
reliable for indicating the quality of the ground. What wattage bulb
should I use to be clear I have a quality ground? And, if I
understand, I put one wire in the receptacle's hot slot and the other
in the ground slot for this? Can that trip the breaker?

--
John

RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...



RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath. I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp


What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

OK, so it's not made as a "tester", you're just using it for that
purpose?

It seems, though, that would be difficult to handle, since one hand
would have to hold the bulb part without burning yourself, and then
you have to manipulate 2 wires with one hand. Is there a tip you have
for using it?

--
John

"John Ross" wrote in message
...



bud-- wrote:
RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...


RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath.
I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.
Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by
touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the
box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the
romex
connector or pressure clamp
.
What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

.
http://www.hardwareworld.com/124-Pig...t-p10KB8E.aspx

That page says it's rated 660W and 240V. I assume the 660 is a typo
for 60? But what about 240V, would that work for a regular household
outlet?

Also, in another thread, you mentioned the plug in testers were not
reliable for indicating the quality of the ground. What wattage bulb
should I use to be clear I have a quality ground? And, if I
understand, I put one wire in the receptacle's hot slot and the other
in the ground slot for this? Can that trip the breaker?

--
John

Don't worry about the wattage and voltage rating of the socket. Use a 100
watt lamp and touch one lead to the hot slot of the receptacle and the other
to the metal box. If you get a good light, you got ground

"John Ross" wrote in message
...



RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...



RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath.
I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by
touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the
box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp


What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

OK, so it's not made as a "tester", you're just using it for that
purpose?

It seems, though, that would be difficult to handle, since one hand
would have to hold the bulb part without burning yourself, and then
you have to manipulate 2 wires with one hand. Is there a tip you have
for using it?

--
John

The entire process will take about a second. The lamp won't have time to
heat

On Mar 21, 6:05�am, "RBM" wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message

...







RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
....

RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
m...
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath.
I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.

Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by
touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the
box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the romex
connector or pressure clamp

What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

OK, so it's not made as a "tester", you're just using it for that
purpose?

It seems, though, that would be difficult to handle, since one hand
would have to hold the bulb part without burning yourself, and then
you have to manipulate 2 wires with one hand. Is there a tip you have
for using it?

--
John

The entire process will take about a second. The lamp won't have time to
heat- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

use a regular lamp with 100 watt bulb. plug lamp into a cheap
extension cord, cut off plug of extension cord. install insulated
alligator clips.

when you done put the lamp back to its normal home

put your cheater extension cord in tool bin for next time its needed

RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...



bud-- wrote:
RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...


RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath.
I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.
Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by
touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the
box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the
romex
connector or pressure clamp
.
What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

.
http://www.hardwareworld.com/124-Pig...t-p10KB8E.aspx

That page says it's rated 660W and 240V. I assume the 660 is a typo
for 60? But what about 240V, would that work for a regular household
outlet?

Also, in another thread, you mentioned the plug in testers were not
reliable for indicating the quality of the ground. What wattage bulb
should I use to be clear I have a quality ground? And, if I
understand, I put one wire in the receptacle's hot slot and the other
in the ground slot for this? Can that trip the breaker?

--
John

Don't worry about the wattage and voltage rating of the socket. Use a 100
watt lamp and touch one lead to the hot slot of the receptacle and the other
to the metal box. If you get a good light, you got ground

Not trying to really get on your nerves

I just want to clarify I am not the one with the metal boxes. I want
to do this without opening up the outlet. It seems like you are
describing touching the outlet screw and then the metal box. I want to
put the wire in the hot hole and the ground hole (i.e. like plugging
in something).

That picture didn't really show the wire ends, but I assumed they were
just bare wire, which I would think would be hard to insert in outlet
holes. But then you said the "leads" so maybe I misunderstood the way
it is made. Is there some sort of metal "end" connected to the wires?
I just picture a thin wire not making contact easily or maybe even
arcing in a big hole. Thanks.

--
John

On Mar 22, 9:26*am, John Ross wrote:
RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...

bud-- wrote:
RBM wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
...

RBM wrote:
"BETA-33" wrote in message
om...
wrote in message
...
what kind of line do you have BX 2 wire romex, K&T?

if its BX and good ground you can connect the ground to the box and
begin upgrading to all grounded outlets
----------------------

It is 2-wire (black and white) -- in a single non-metallic sheath.
I
don't know if that is called BX or whatever.
Use a pigtail socket and bulb to test if the box is grounded, by
touching
the wires of the socket between the hot, black wire and the box. Some
early
NM cable had an undersized ground wire that was not connected to the
box
via
grounding screw, but wrapped around the cable and clamped by the
romex
connector or pressure clamp
.
What is a "pigtail socket and bulb"?

--
John

A lamp socket with two leads attached

.
http://www.hardwareworld.com/124-Pig...t-p10KB8E.aspx

That page says it's rated 660W and 240V. I assume the 660 is a typo
for 60? But what about 240V, would that work for a regular household
outlet?

Also, in another thread, you mentioned the plug in testers were not
reliable for indicating the quality of the ground. What wattage bulb
should I use to be clear I have a quality ground? And, if I
understand, I put one wire in the receptacle's hot slot and the other
in the ground slot for this? Can that trip the breaker?

--
John

Don't worry about the wattage and voltage rating of the socket. Use a 100
watt lamp and touch one lead to the hot slot of the receptacle and the other
to the metal box. If you get a good light, you got ground

Not trying to really get on your nerves

I just want to clarify I am not the one with the metal boxes. I want
to do this without opening up the outlet. It seems like you are
describing touching the outlet screw and then the metal box. I want to
put the wire in the hot hole and the ground hole (i.e. like plugging
in something).

That picture didn't really show the wire ends, but I assumed they were
just bare wire, which I would think would be hard to insert in outlet
holes. But then you said the "leads" so maybe I misunderstood the way
it is made. Is there some sort of metal "end" connected to the wires?
I just picture a thin wire not making contact easily or maybe even
arcing in a big hole. Thanks.

--
John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK, let's do it a different way, so you'll feel safe and confident
that you are making a good connection.

Make a cheater cord, sometimes referred to as a suicide cord:

Take a three wire cord and cut off the socket end, exposing the three
conductors.

Attach one wire from the pigtail socket to the black hot wire and one
to the green ground. Tape them to keep them from touching. Tape off
the white (or don't strip the insulation) if that makes you feel
better. (Or screw the hot and ground wires from the cord to a 2 wire
lamp socket)

Plug it into the outlet. If the bulb lights strongly, you've got a
good ground.

According to DerbyDad03 :
OK, let's do it a different way, so you'll feel safe and confident
that you are making a good connection.

Make a cheater cord, sometimes referred to as a suicide cord:

Minor nit: "suicide cord" has a plug on both ends. What you
describe is simply splicing a hacked off three prong cord onto
a pigtail lamp base.

Take a three wire cord and cut off the socket end, exposing the three
conductors.

Attach one wire from the pigtail socket to the black hot wire and one
to the green ground. Tape them to keep them from touching. Tape off
the white (or don't strip the insulation) if that makes you feel
better. (Or screw the hot and ground wires from the cord to a 2 wire
lamp socket)

Note that it's best to put the green wire on the lead going to the
shell of the screw base. A little harder to accidentally hit the
hot. Tape each of the connections well, and then bundle them under
another layer of tape.

[Use electrical tape ;-)]

If you have a spare octagonal box, rather than using a pigtail bulb
socket, you could use a socket designed for mounting on the box (what
are those things called? I forget).

Then your connections are inside a box and can be done with wirenuts.

If the box is metal, DO NOT connect the box to the ground wire.
If if you do, and the outlet ground is non-existant or poor, the metal
box goes live.

Better to use a plastic box.

If the lamp does not go to full brightness or flickers, unplug it
quick - sign of bad ground, and something may be overheating.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Mar 24, 8:18*am, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to DerbyDad03 :

OK, let's do it a different way, so you'll feel safe and confident
that you are making a good connection.
Make a cheater cord, sometimes referred to as a suicide cord:

Minor nit: "suicide cord" has a plug on both ends. *What you
describe is simply splicing a hacked off three prong cord onto
a pigtail lamp base.

Take a three wire cord and cut off the socket end, exposing the three
conductors.
Attach one wire from the pigtail socket to the black hot wire and one
to the green ground. *Tape them to keep them from touching. Tape off
the white (or don't strip the insulation) if that makes you feel
better. (Or screw the hot and ground wires from the cord to a 2 wire
lamp socket)

Note that it's best to put the green wire on the lead going to the
shell of the screw base. *A little harder to accidentally hit the
hot. *Tape each of the connections well, and then bundle them under
another layer of tape.

[Use electrical tape ;-)]

If you have a spare octagonal box, rather than using a pigtail bulb
socket, you could use a socket designed for mounting on the box (what
are those things called? *I forget).

Then your connections are inside a box and can be done with wirenuts.

If the box is metal, DO NOT connect the box to the ground wire.
If if you do, and the outlet ground is non-existant or poor, the metal
box goes live.

Better to use a plastic box.

If the lamp does not go to full brightness or flickers, unplug it
quick - sign of bad ground, and something may be overheating.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Minor nit: "suicide cord" has a plug on both ends

I guess it depends on who you ask...

IMHO a suicide cord without the second plug is more versatile in that
it can be attached to just about anything, including the leads of a
second suicide cord to create a cord with plugs on both ends.

from: http://www.bvws.org.uk/405alive/info/abbrev.html

suicide cord - also known as a 'Widow Maker', this is a power cord
with a plug on one end and either bare wires or alligator clips on the
other. It was used in radio and TV workshops to apply power to a
chassis that was out of the cabinet.

from: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13645_1-9814770-47.html

The big selling point for me was when the salesman took a zip cord or
suicide cord (a two prong plug, six feet of wire and aligator clips on
the ends)...

Yes, you can also find links describing a suicide cord as having a
male plug on both ends. In fact, this somewhat humorous site mentions
both versions:

http://mysite.verizon.net/tomhunter/...me/suicide.htm

So, until someone posts an article describing a suicide cord on
Wikipedia, making it the *definitive* answer g I'll say that both
versions are correct.

According to DerbyDad03 :

I guess it depends on who you ask...

True. It is slang afterall, but we normally see the term
here when (improperly) connecting a generator to a house wiring
system with a cord with male plugs at both ends.

IMHO a suicide cord without the second plug is more versatile in that
it can be attached to just about anything, including the leads of a
second suicide cord to create a cord with plugs on both ends.

from: http://www.bvws.org.uk/405alive/info/abbrev.html

suicide cord - also known as a 'Widow Maker', this is a power cord
with a plug on one end and either bare wires or alligator clips on the
other. It was used in radio and TV workshops to apply power to a
chassis that was out of the cabinet.

Right. But you converted your "bare wire at one end cord" to a
"bare wire at one end, and a bulb socket at the other end cord", right?

That's no longer a suicide cord.

To be pedantically correct, using your definition, you first
created a suicide cord, then you turned it into a worklight.

[It's DANGEROUSLY MISWIRED! worklight. Miswire, in this context,
is of bulb neutral to ground.]

I tend to treat a cord with a male plug at one end and bare wires
at the other to be an "as yet unused electrical assembly" ;-)
You can buy them just that way. Eg: dryer/stove or other pre-made
"appliance" cords.

[But I have used a one just like that to test a motor live.]

So, until someone posts an article describing a suicide cord on
Wikipedia, making it the *definitive* answer g I'll say that both
versions are correct.

That's not hard to do ;-)

Wikipedia is only the opinion of the last person taking a whack at it ;-)
It's usually pretty good, but sometimes...
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

I see where our disconnect is. Read on....

On Mar 24, 1:24*pm, (Chris Lewis) wrote:
According to DerbyDad03 :

I guess it depends on who you ask...

True. *It is slang afterall, but we normally see the term
here when (improperly) connecting a generator to a house wiring
system with a cord with male plugs at both ends.

snip

Actually, in a previous life, while repairing all sorts of electronic
equipment both in the military and in industry, as well as working
with Grandpa in his shop, the only thing I ever knew to be a suicide
cord had a plug at one end and bare wires at the other...unless it was
upgraded to include alligator clips. All the techs had them in their
workbench drawers - unless we knew an inspection was coming. g


Right. *But you converted your "bare wire at one end cord" to a
"bare wire at one end, and a bulb socket at the other end cord", right?

No, that's not what I said. I said make a suicide cord by cutting off
the socket (female) end from a 3 wire cord - thus creating the suicide
cord - then attach the bare wires to a pig tail socket (or light
socket) and plug it into the wall. Here's the words from my post,
snipped for brevity:

- Take a three wire cord and cut off the socket end, exposing the
three conductors
- Attach one wire from the pigtail socket to the black hot wire and
one to the green ground.
- Plug it into the outlet.

That's no longer a suicide cord.

Sure it is...it's a suicide cord being used for it's intended purpose
- temporary power.

To be pedantically correct, using your definition, you first
created a suicide cord, then you turned it into a worklight.

OK, so it's just like when I use a suicide cord to test an electronic
device - I turn it into a power cord. I'm not sure of your point
here.

[It's DANGEROUSLY MISWIRED! worklight. *Miswire, in this context,
is of bulb neutral to ground.]


Of course it is. But making a worklight was not the point of the
exercise. My post was in response to Mr. Ross's concern that he wasn't
sure he could make a good connection by sticking the 2 wires from the
pig tail socket into the hot and ground holes in a three pronged
receptacle. By using a suicide cord and the pig tail socket (or lamp
socket wired incorrectly) he can be sure he has a good connection
*inside* the receptacle. No one suggested he toss this set-up into his
toolbox and use it the next time he changes his oil.

I tend to treat a cord with a male plug at one end and bare wires
at the other to be an "as yet unused electrical assembly" ;-)
You can buy them just that way. *Eg: dryer/stove or other pre-made
"appliance" cords.

[But I have used a one just like that to test a motor live.]

Yes, you can buy them...but where's the fun in that? And who doesn't
have an old cord, both 2 conductor and 3 lying around? There's
something to be said for the feeling you get when you take a perfectly
safe object and turn it into something that can kill ya. g


So, until someone posts an article describing a suicide cord on
Wikipedia, making it the *definitive* answer g I'll say that both
versions are correct.

That's not hard to do ;-)

Wikipedia is only the opinion of the last person taking a whack at it ;-)
It's usually pretty good, but sometimes...

That was joke. Note the grin next the words " *definitive* answer ".

Did you know that many schools (my kid's included) will not allow
Wikipedia to be cited as a source in the footnotes or bibliography of
a report? Too much inaccurate info being taken as fact merely because
it's formatted so "professionally".

--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.