I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

On Mar 14, 2:10 pm, (big e lewis) wrote:
I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

Big E-

I would suggest that you look for a small A-frame style gantry on
Craigslist

Take a look at mcmaster.com under floor crane to get an idea of what
the design looks like in steel.

Timber is pretty variable material & the strength from piece to piece
can vary a lot.

A 4x4 is way undersized ... a 4x6 is getting closer.

The connection details are very important to performance of the
system.

Wood though easy to work with isn't ideal material for this
application.

Several 100's of pounds of auto components suspended chest high off
the ground is a non-trivial activity that could seriously hurt or kill
someone if it falls.

Lifting systems are required to have substantial safety margin....your
home brew solution, while doable (if you know what you're doing),
could be a disaster waiting to happen.

cheers
Bob

In article ,
says...

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E


A 4x4 will definitely not be strong enough. I have one made up with double
2x8's with a 7 foot width that I have pulled an engine with. I would keep the
width as short as practical. Do not drill the beam to attach the hoist, make a
metal strap to go around, or use a nylon sling wrapped around the beam.

Here is a program that will calculate the bend in a wooden shelf or beam, just
put in various measurements and wood type. Best to size it for ordinary wood:
spruce, pine, etc. unless you can get Douglas fir.

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator.htm

--
Dennis

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:10:33 -0400, (big e lewis)
wrote:

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles.

1) If you have a large Oak tree - hoist the engine from the largest
branch.

2) Drop the engine on the ground, then roll the car back down the
ramp.

3) Build a T-Pee with three 3" galvanized pipes, assemble the
hoist/with pipe and hoist the engine.

wrote:
DT wrote:

says...

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. ...
... The crossboard, ... will be 10' long. ...

A 4x4 will definitely not be strong enough.

Depends on the span, no? If M = WL/8 = 100L and S = M/1000
and 3.5 = sqart(6S/3.5), L = 71" max, approximately.

Yes.

But OP said 10-ft span which would be stretching it by quite a bunch...

I'm w/ the suggestion on looking at alternatives including biting the
bullet and buying a decent-sized beam--amongst other things, would allow
the hoist to be tracked, always a useful enhancement.

If use lumber, would suggest 2-3 2x8 or -10s minimum, but that's simply
a "feels about right" sizing, I didn't even estimate a stress number...

--

better get some updated info on those weights. Unless you're running an
aluminum 4 cyl.

s


"big e lewis" wrote in message
...
I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:28:52 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:

better get some updated info on those weights. Unless you're running an
aluminum 4 cyl.

s

How much does a Chevy 327 weight with a bell housing and clutch - no
tranny.. 800#?


"big e lewis" wrote in message
...
I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

DT wrote:

says...

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#...

A 4x4 will definitely not be strong enough.

Depends on the span, no? If M = WL/8 = 100L and S = M/1000
and 3.5 = sqart(6S/3.5), L = 71" max, approximately.

Nick

BobK207 wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:10 pm, (big e lewis) wrote:

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E


Big E-

I would suggest that you look for a small A-frame style gantry on
Craigslist

Take a look at mcmaster.com under floor crane to get an idea of what
the design looks like in steel.

Timber is pretty variable material & the strength from piece to piece
can vary a lot.

A 4x4 is way undersized ... a 4x6 is getting closer.

The connection details are very important to performance of the
system.

Wood though easy to work with isn't ideal material for this
application.

Several 100's of pounds of auto components suspended chest high off
the ground is a non-trivial activity that could seriously hurt or kill
someone if it falls.

Lifting systems are required to have substantial safety margin....your
home brew solution, while doable (if you know what you're doing),
could be a disaster waiting to happen.

cheers
Bob

I'd design for at least 1500#, for example, a Studebaker V-8 weighs over
600 lbs. fully dressed with clutch and bellhousing but without
transmission. I'd imagine if you work on 4x4s you could conceivably
pull an engine, automatic transmission, and transfer case as a unit,
which even with a modern, lightweight engine and trans case could weigh
over 1000# all up. like Bob says, you don't want to find out that you
underbuilt the hard way.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Oren wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:28:52 -0500, "S. Barker"
wrote:


better get some updated info on those weights. Unless you're running an
aluminum 4 cyl.

s


How much does a Chevy 327 weight with a bell housing and clutch - no
tranny.. 800#?

not that much... probably between 500 and 600#... still, safety factors
are your friend

nate





"big e lewis" wrote in message
...

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E




--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

BobK207 wrote:
On Mar 14, 2:10 pm, (big e lewis) wrote:
I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

Big E-

I would suggest that you look for a small A-frame style gantry on
Craigslist

Take a look at mcmaster.com under floor crane to get an idea of what
the design looks like in steel.

Timber is pretty variable material & the strength from piece to piece
can vary a lot.

A 4x4 is way undersized ... a 4x6 is getting closer.

The connection details are very important to performance of the
system.

Wood though easy to work with isn't ideal material for this
application.

Several 100's of pounds of auto components suspended chest high off
the ground is a non-trivial activity that could seriously hurt or kill
someone if it falls.

Lifting systems are required to have substantial safety margin....your
home brew solution, while doable (if you know what you're doing),
could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Agreed. Stuff That Can Kill You is not the place to cut corners. Used
engine lifts are not that hard to find or expensive, compared to the
doctor bills if you drop it on your foot, or the funeral bills if you
drop it on your head or chest.

aem sends...

"big e lewis" wrote in message
...
I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#. Plus maybe a momentary higher weight when a mount hangs up,
and the front of the car lifts up a little with the engine. Any
comments/thoughts are appreciated! Thanks, Big E

I would not lift anything that heavy with wood. I know it has been done,
and is currently done. However, there is a safety factor here, and the
failures are catastrophic.

OSHA rules forbid lifting ANYTHING with rope in their rigging regulations.
In the field, it is done ALL THE TIME, and done safely by people who know
rope, knots, practices. Timber hitch is a common example. Works better and
safer than a chain or sling, but they don't want you to use it.

If the wooden beam is all you have to work with, put two vertical support
members to help distribute the load and make it a little safer.

Steve

1) If you have a large Oak tree - hoist the engine from the largest branch.


Even then you can never tell. I have several 70' oak trees and one had a nearly
horizontal branch up about 20 feet. The branch was a good 10" thick. Many times
I pondered how I could get some ropes up there for a swing for the grandkids.
One hot summer about 3 years ago, I was walking in the back yard and heard a
tremendous splitting noise, and the entire branch hit the ground with a crash.

--
Dennis

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:33:58 -0500, (DT)
wrote:


1) If you have a large Oak tree - hoist the engine from the largest branch.


Even then you can never tell. I have several 70' oak trees and one had a nearly
horizontal branch up about 20 feet. The branch was a good 10" thick. Many times
I pondered how I could get some ropes up there for a swing for the grandkids.
One hot summer about 3 years ago, I was walking in the back yard and heard a
tremendous splitting noise, and the entire branch hit the ground with a crash.

Okay. Never hang your engines from an ole oak tree. Pick young ones..

You might need a 14 -16 " branch.

To elaborate a little on my original idea... I was thinking 4x4
uprights, with a 4x4 or 4x6 top crossbar. I was going to run 2x4's
diagonally from almost the middle of the crossbar, to the uprights, 2
per side. I figured this would beef up the middle of the crossbar, where
the chainfall would go. By the way, I'm going to use a chain chainfall,
where you pull the chain one way for up and the other for down, not
ropes or pulleys. I was going to use 4x4's on the bottom, under the
uprights, with 3 swivel casters per side, for mobility. I wanted to be
able to disasemble it for storage, as it is not something to use
everyday. I know a small block chevy is a little under 500#, and
probably another 200# for a tranny. I wanted a 10' span on top, to give
plenty of room to work on the sides of the car, but as our latemodel
racecar is about 6 1/2' wide, I could go less if I had to. I have a
cheap, foldup Harbor Freight cherrypicker now, but it is marginal in
reach and height to pull many motors. I just want something I can use
safely, inside my garage because it gets cold here in Michigan in the
winter. So what if I go 8' span, with my diagonals, possibly either
stack 2 4x4's, or use a bundle of 2 or 3 2x8's or 2x10's? Or is wood
just going to be too weak no matter how I do it? I really appreciate the
input! Big E

wrote in message
...
DT wrote:

says...

I am building an engine hoist framework, to hang a chainfall. I will be
using it to pull and install engines and trans in my racecar and other
various vehicles. I planned on using 4x4's for the uprights and the top
crossboard. The crossboard, that the chainfall will hang from, will be
10' long. Is a 4x4 strong enough, or should I use a 4x6, or something
else entirely? I figure the engine/trans combos shouldn't be more than
700 or 800#...

A 4x4 will definitely not be strong enough.

Depends on the span, no? If M = WL/8 = 100L and S = M/1000
and 3.5 = sqart(6S/3.5), L = 71" max, approximately.

Nick


I don't see where you applied Murphy's Law in your equation.

Steve

not that much... probably between 500 and 600#... still, safety factors
are your friend

nate

Should and probably. Two words I hate.

Steve

there abouts.

s

"Oren" wrote in message
...

How much does a Chevy 327 weight with a bell housing and clutch - no
tranny.. 800#?

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
there abouts.

s

"Oren" wrote in message
...

How much does a Chevy 327 weight with a bell housing and clutch - no
tranny.. 800#?


Here is a list of some weights.

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html

"S. Barker" wrote in message
...
there abouts.

s

"Oren" wrote in message
...

How much does a Chevy 327 weight with a bell housing and clutch - no
tranny.. 800#?

Well............. hmmmmmmmmmm ................... I don't know. Let's just
hook it up and see what happens ....................

Steve

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:13:50 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:

Here is a list of some weights.

http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/engineweights.html


Thanks!

I never knew a Chrysler M4 tank engine came in at 5,244#s

On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:40:42 -0400, (big e lewis)
wrote:

Or is wood
just going to be too weak no matter how I do it? I really appreciate the
input! Big E

A better question, is will it weaken over repeated storage,
disassembly. and assembly?

Can you post a photo link of the space you intend to work on this
racecar?

i dont know about wood, but i was allways told to have double the
lifting capacity for safteys sake.lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Oren wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:40:42 -0400, (big e lewis)
wrote:

Or is wood
just going to be too weak no matter how I do it? I really appreciate
the input! Big E

A better question, is will it weaken over repeated storage,
disassembly. and assembly?

Can you post a photo link of the space you intend to work on this
racecar?

I've deleted the previous posts, hence posting here. The way to go for me is
an hydraulic lift on a mobile frame. I bought one probably 25 yrs ago that
has lifted out and in many separate and combined units in safety. At the
time, it costed me about $200 so more now but not that much and worth it!

I don't have a way to post pics, but my garage is 26' wide, 38' deep,
12' tall ceiling. The front rollup door is 16' wide, and 10' tall. I
have an apron in front of the garage 25' out, the full width of the
garage. ( the apron and the garage floor are concrete ) I thought this
setup could be used inside during bad weather, and rolled outside, or
near the door on nice days when I want to work in the fresh air. Big E

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 21:08:47 -0400, (big e lewis)
wrote:

I don't have a way to post pics, but my garage is 26' wide, 38' deep,
12' tall ceiling. The front rollup door is 16' wide, and 10' tall. I
have an apron in front of the garage 25' out, the full width of the
garage. ( the apron and the garage floor are concrete ) I thought this
setup could be used inside during bad weather, and rolled outside, or
near the door on nice days when I want to work in the fresh air. Big E

I can work with you. But, how does a person on webtv, that cannot post
a picture on the web; build racecars?

My first dealings with the internet, about 10 years ago, was with webtv.
Simple, no viruses, good for basic e-mail and posting. Since then, my
wife got a computer, and since she has service from MSN, I get free
webtv service. So while she does the internet thing on hers, I just play
around on this, since I have it and it's free. I'm not much into
"technology", in fact I just got a cellphone about a year ago. (mostly
because it was given to me from a co-worker who was upgrading, and it is
a virgin mobile for $6.99/month and 10 cents/minute. And I only use
maybe 10 minutes a month at most) As far as the racing, our families
have been it for decades. We've ran everything from demo derbies to
enduros, ministocks to latemodels. My wife, in 2003 won the track
championship, first female ever, at our local paved flat 1/4 mile track.
We both have multiple top 5 and top 10 point finishes in various
classes. Her current car is a latemodel, 13-1 compression, ford 9 inch,
mini clutch, ect. Sorry for the rant, but I take offence when people
assume that every person with webtv is a moron. (many ARE, but that is
beside the point! lol) Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm still
deciding what way to go on this project. I'll let everyone know what I
do, with results when I do. Big E

big e lewis wrote:
....
... As far as the racing, our families
have been it for decades. ...
...I'm still deciding what way to go on this project. ...

Ignore the snide comments, it's usenet, afterall...

What puzzles me is if you're into the racing in such a big way you would
even consider anything but a well-built hoist.

You surely must be able to and have all the welding equipment you would
need and a little contemplation and design would allow for a quick set
up and take down assembly using pins, etc., and provide more than
adequate strength w/ less bulky support, etc., in the way...

$0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., ...

--

"dpb" wrote in message

What puzzles me is if you're into the racing in such a big way you would
even consider anything but a well-built hoist.


Same reason he is still using WebTV

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"dpb" wrote in message

What puzzles me is if you're into the racing in such a big way you would
even consider anything but a well-built hoist.


Same reason he is still using WebTV


LOL

Well, a prebuilt gantry hoist runs $500-600. The steel to build one,
with the prices of even scrapmetal thru the roof, wouldn't be cheap. I
just had my garage built in the fall, and the package, for some reason,
had some extra lumber. I've got a couple of long 4x4's, and some cutoff
pieces 5' long or so. Also several 2x8's, and various 2x4 pieces. So if
I could safely build a hoist with this, it would be almost free, other
than my time. Then I could spend more on go fast parts! lol Really, I
honestly thought that I could build a wooden hoist that would be much
heavier duty than a store-bought hoist.I have a large, very heavily
built outside hoist I made to lift car bodies off the frame. It is made
from 6x6's, with tons of bracing, but it is too tall to go in the
garage, and there is no way to take it apart. I have a good, heavy duty
steel hydrualic cherrypicker at my father-in-laws garage, but he uses it
quite a bit on our fleet so I don't want to take it from him. Also, our
latemodel has a fairly long nose, sitting low to the ground, with a bit
of engine setback. So even my good picker is stretching to do this
motor. I figured that an overhead lifting hoist would work better on
this car in particular. Maybe my original idea won't work, thats why I
was looking for imput. My drawing board is always open! Big E

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:00:53 -0400, (big e lewis)
wrote:

I
just had my garage built in the fall, and the package, for some reason,
had some extra lumber. I've got a couple of long 4x4's, and some cutoff
pieces 5' long or so. Also several 2x8's, and various 2x4 pieces. So if
I could safely build a hoist with this, it would be almost free, other
than my time.

Did you think about a hoist during the planning and building, during
the fall? What a great time to address this.

I'm surprised the framers left any wood! A good framer uses every
scrap of lumber