So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a Wall
unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-

Scott Townsend wrote:
So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a
Wall unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and
I like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-


The question you want to be asking is how replacing
an electric heater with another electric heater
(oil-filled or not) is going to alter the spinning
of the meter.

sarcasm off/

If there is absolutely no other fuel source available,
focus on reducing heat loss (windows, wall/ceiling
insulation, etc.)

Jim

"Scott Townsend" wrote in message
et...
So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a
Wall unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-

Qmark makes them. Not only will the price of using them, knock your socks
off, but the price of buying them will as well. Here's a link:
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...nextag&kw=1799

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...


The question you want to be asking is how replacing
an electric heater with another electric heater
(oil-filled or not) is going to alter the spinning
of the meter.

sarcasm off/

If there is absolutely no other fuel source available,
focus on reducing heat loss (windows, wall/ceiling
insulation, etc.)

Jim is tack on. The efficiency of all resistance heaters is about the same
(nicely high, BTW).

Insulate and fix the air leaks.

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:57:58 GMT, Scott Townsend wrote:

So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a Wall
unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-

My daughter has electric baseboard heat and the cost is not very high. In
fact it costs less to heat the 1900sf house than it does to heat their
1100sf trailer. However, the baseboard is only in the house addition. The
old part of the house is gas heat.

So on the Topic of "Insulate and fix the air leaks"

Any Tips Tricks? The main house has serious issues. It gets serious cold at
time without heat.
Close the door to the Computer Room/Office and that room is toasty, but the
rest of the house is very drafty.

Scott-
"Charles" wrote in message
. ..

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...


The question you want to be asking is how replacing
an electric heater with another electric heater
(oil-filled or not) is going to alter the spinning
of the meter.

sarcasm off/

If there is absolutely no other fuel source available,
focus on reducing heat loss (windows, wall/ceiling
insulation, etc.)

Jim is tack on. The efficiency of all resistance heaters is about the
same (nicely high, BTW).

Insulate and fix the air leaks.

I expected more grief then that! ;-P

The old units look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ywbnz2

Pretty hideous.

If its all Apples to Apple, So maybe something like this then?
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 88

I do like this unit though... Seems like the Hydronic would be more
efficient though.
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 98
Waste the Energy heating the oil, then the oil still retains the heat.
Exhaust heaters once they are off, you are done...

Scott-


"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...
Scott Townsend wrote:
So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a
Wall unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something
Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-


The question you want to be asking is how replacing
an electric heater with another electric heater
(oil-filled or not) is going to alter the spinning
of the meter.

sarcasm off/

If there is absolutely no other fuel source available,
focus on reducing heat loss (windows, wall/ceiling
insulation, etc.)

Jim

Scott Townsend wrote:

So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a Wall
unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

The thing is, while its heating the oil its not heating the room.
Heating oil to heat a room is going to use more energy than to just heat the
room.


Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that does
something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-

Scott Townsend wrote:
I expected more grief then that! ;-P

The old units look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ywbnz2

Pretty hideous.

If its all Apples to Apple, So maybe something like this then?
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 88


I do like this unit though... Seems like the Hydronic would be more
efficient though.
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 98

Waste the Energy heating the oil, then the oil still retains the heat.
Exhaust heaters once they are off, you are done...

Scott-


That ceiling heater will blow a blast of
very hot air down on you.

The Hydronic baseboard is nicer and air temps
will be much more suitable. But.....that one is only
1250 watts. Find out the total wattage of the unit
you're ripping out. That's (approx.) how many watts
you'll need.

All of these heaters, whether ceiling, plain baseboard
or baseboard Hydronic are 100% efficient (round numbers).
That means that everything passing thru your meter gets
turned into heat. (Of course, this ignores the fact that
the generating plant, if fossil-fired, is only 35% efficient.)

So, choose a heater which will be adequate size and that
will distribute the heat.

Head to the BigBox store and get draft-stopping supplies.
I'm sure the clerk could assist on that. For next season,
look into doing insulation in walls/ceilings. Only you can
factor in what the budget will support and how big a priority
it is.

Jim






"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
. net...

Scott Townsend wrote:

So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or
a Wall unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil
and I like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

Do they make a Baseboard heater that I can Mount to the Wall that
does something Similar? I do not want a Portable unit, I want
something Fixed.

Any Suggestions?

Scott-



The question you want to be asking is how replacing
an electric heater with another electric heater
(oil-filled or not) is going to alter the spinning
of the meter.

sarcasm off/

If there is absolutely no other fuel source available,
focus on reducing heat loss (windows, wall/ceiling
insulation, etc.)

Jim

"Scott Townsend" wrote in message
et...
I expected more grief then that! ;-P

The old units look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ywbnz2

Pretty hideous.

If its all Apples to Apple, So maybe something like this then?
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 88

I do like this unit though... Seems like the Hydronic would be more
efficient though.
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 98
Waste the Energy heating the oil, then the oil still retains the heat.
Exhaust heaters once they are off, you are done...

Scott-

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make the
room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given the
outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will be 1500
Watts per hour. That means the heater will run 100% of the time. Buy a
3000 watt heater and it will run 50% of the time.

Next is efficiency. All electric heaters are 100% efficient. All the heat
made by resistance is going into the room the heater is located. Gas or oil
heaters need to be ventilated so from a few percent to 30 percent of the
heat may be going up the chimney. In most areas, electric is the most
expensive form of energy. Here in New England, we pay 17¢ or so per kWh.

So, why choose one heater over the other? If you need that 1500 watts of
heat on the coldest day and the heat is on al the time, it may be nice and
comfy and cozy. if, OTOH, it is a 3000 watt heater it will run only half
the time so there will be some variations of room temperature as the heater
cycles off and on. How often id determined by the range of the thermostat.
Good ones will turn the heat on, then off, with a tiny temperature
fluctuation. On at 67.5, off at 68.5. Cheap ones may turn on at 66 and off
at 70.

The hydronic heaters are filled with a liquid adding thermal mass, just like
the radiators of years past. It took a little for them to get hot, but once
the boiler stopped, they kept giving off heat for some time keeping the room
steady and gently heated. In any case, the heat is not wasted, it is just
distributed over a longer time period and you tend to feel more comfy.

If you want to save money, I'd first seal up and insulated as best you can.
I'd also look at alternative fuels, such as propane or wood pellets. They
may or may not be cheaper or as convenient. There are web pages that allow
you to put in the cost of fuels and do comparisons.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make the
room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given the
outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will be 1500
Watts per hour...

Ah, basic nonsense :-)

Nick

Thanks guys.

Since this is a 'rental' and its only 520 SqFt (the whole unit, not just the
one room) I'm thinking the 1500 watt unit should be fine. The Last tenant
had a portable 1500 watt radiant oil filled heater and they usually put it
on 1500 watt for a bit to take the Chill off, then set it to 700 watt to
maintain.

Being that I've just finished building a house I'm not really interested in
spending much time and effort on this small rental. So I'm looking for
something that I can Fix to the wall/ceiling and hard wire in so I can meter
it (along with the Stove and a few other things) so we can charge for it.
The other Outlets are not on the Meter. (if you really want to know why, I
can explain, but...) Quick and Efficient. (-;

There is no Fireplace or any roof penetrations, so back to the quick and not
wanting to spend time, I don't think a fireplace/pellet stove is in my
future.

Wait, We'll be putting in an Electric Oven.. What if I get one with
Convection? Have her turn on the Oven and the Convection fan... Adjust the
baking tem to what she wants the room to be? (-;

Scott-

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Scott Townsend" wrote in message
et...
I expected more grief then that! ;-P

The old units look like this: http://tinyurl.com/ywbnz2

Pretty hideous.

If its all Apples to Apple, So maybe something like this then?
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 88

I do like this unit though... Seems like the Hydronic would be more
efficient though.
http://www.iap-home.com/index.cfm?fu...duct_ID=17 98
Waste the Energy heating the oil, then the oil still retains the heat.
Exhaust heaters once they are off, you are done...

Scott-

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make
the room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given
the outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will
be 1500 Watts per hour. That means the heater will run 100% of the time.
Buy a 3000 watt heater and it will run 50% of the time.

Next is efficiency. All electric heaters are 100% efficient. All the
heat made by resistance is going into the room the heater is located. Gas
or oil heaters need to be ventilated so from a few percent to 30 percent
of the heat may be going up the chimney. In most areas, electric is the
most expensive form of energy. Here in New England, we pay 17¢ or so per
kWh.

So, why choose one heater over the other? If you need that 1500 watts of
heat on the coldest day and the heat is on al the time, it may be nice and
comfy and cozy. if, OTOH, it is a 3000 watt heater it will run only half
the time so there will be some variations of room temperature as the
heater cycles off and on. How often id determined by the range of the
thermostat. Good ones will turn the heat on, then off, with a tiny
temperature fluctuation. On at 67.5, off at 68.5. Cheap ones may turn on
at 66 and off at 70.

The hydronic heaters are filled with a liquid adding thermal mass, just
like the radiators of years past. It took a little for them to get hot,
but once the boiler stopped, they kept giving off heat for some time
keeping the room steady and gently heated. In any case, the heat is not
wasted, it is just distributed over a longer time period and you tend to
feel more comfy.

If you want to save money, I'd first seal up and insulated as best you
can. I'd also look at alternative fuels, such as propane or wood pellets.
They may or may not be cheaper or as convenient. There are web pages that
allow you to put in the cost of fuels and do comparisons.

Eric wrote:
Scott Townsend wrote:

So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!

So I'm looking to replace them with either another baseboard unit, or a Wall
unit.

We have one of the portable radiator type fin units filled with oil and I
like the way it can still heat after the oil's been warmed up.

The thing is, while its heating the oil its not heating the room.
Heating oil to heat a room is going to use more energy than to just heat the
room.
..
Nope. As several people have said electric heat is 100% efficient.

As Edwin said the oil just maintains heat output over a longer time.

--
bud--

bud-- wrote:
So we have a guest house that had 20 year old 220v electric Baseboard
heaters. Flip a few on and watch the Meter Fly!
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
Heating oil to heat a room is going to use more energy than to just heat the
room.
.
Nope. As several people have said electric heat is 100% efficient.

As Edwin said the oil just maintains heat output over a longer time.

So, is it a good idea to replace my standard base board heaters with this
Hydronic type?

--
Message posted via http://www.homekb.com

"Charlesmurphy via HomeKB.com" u35366@uwe wrote in message

So, is it a good idea to replace my standard base board heaters with this
Hydronic type?


It will give a more even heat in a drafty room. Certainly not a bad idea,
but it may be a bit more costly to buy. Over a number of years, it is
cheap.

wrote in message
...
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make
the
room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given the
outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will be
1500
Watts per hour...

Ah, basic nonsense :-)

Nick


Thanks for the added information; you certainly helped the OP solve his
problems. Where is the 96 lines of mathematical masturbation you usually
have in a post?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make
the room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given the
outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will be
1500 Watts per hour...

Ah, basic nonsense :-)

Thanks for the added information...

You are welcome. Here's mo power is measured in watts, not "Watts per hour."

Nick

In article ,
says...

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Let's start with the basic physics. It takes "x" amount of heat to make
the room comfortable. For example, you may need 5000 Btu per hour given the
outdoor temperature to maintain 68 degrees. If electric, that will be
1500 Watts per hour...

Ah, basic nonsense :-)

Thanks for the added information...

You are welcome. Here's mo power is measured in watts, not "Watts per hour."

Nick


Heat is energy and therefore is to be provided in terms of energy units, which
would be power x time.

Banty

Banty wrote:

... power is measured in watts, not "Watts per hour."

Heat is energy and therefore is to be provided in terms of energy units, which
would be power x time.

Exactly. "Per" means "divided by" time, which implies an acceleration of
power ("Cap'n, we're up to Warp 11! She canna take much morra this!" :-)

Nick

In article ,
says...

Banty wrote:

... power is measured in watts, not "Watts per hour."

Heat is energy and therefore is to be provided in terms of energy units, which
would be power x time.

Exactly. "Per" means "divided by" time, which implies an acceleration of
power ("Cap'n, we're up to Warp 11! She canna take much morra this!" :-)

Har har accelerated energy untits :-/

I took that as meaning "watts in an hour". I think you're making too much of a
manner of speaking.

Banty

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Charlesmurphy via HomeKB.com" u35366@uwe wrote in message
So, is it a good idea to replace my standard base board heaters with this
Hydronic type?


It will give a more even heat in a drafty room. Certainly not a bad idea,
but it may be a bit more costly to buy. Over a number of years, it is
cheap.

Runs cooler. Last I looked 'regular' baseboards could cause fires if
drapes blocked the louvers and got inside against the element. IIRC the
NEC does not permit receptacles above 'regular' baseboards because the
cords go past baseboards that can get too hot. (Receptacles can be
mounted in a non-heating part of the baseboard on non-heating circuits.)

--
bud--

In my experience with older houses (from 1950s to as old as 1870s)
I've discovered two culprits, one of which is easier and more
effective to deal with than the other.

Back in the days when the cost of heating didn't matter, they didn't
insulate, or the walls themselves counted as insulation (like my old
brick rowhouse). Insulation is a matter of access - can you get to the
attic?, how efficiently can you get insulation in your walls?, floors?

On the other hand, combating drafts is eminently easier. Kinda. Can I
tell you how much I hate older windows? Unless the windows have been
replaced in the last ten years, they all leak like sieves and the cold
in the Winter just pours off them in waves. In fact, in my office
(which was the living room of a 19th century house), I had a problem
keeping it warm until we covered the windows with that plastic that
shrinks under heat. Just having that plastic over the windows made a
DRAMATIC difference in heat loss in the office.

(Unfortunately, the member of my church who installed the plastic
didn't think the hair dryer was working well enough or fast enough and
used a heat gun instead. Guess what happened?)

Doors will be your other demon. It's worth replacing weather
stripping, foam pads around the jamb, whatever to seal the doors from
drafts. If worse comes to worst, roll up a large towel and put it at
the foot of the door - that's what we did in the living room in my
last house.

When it comes to doors, look for not-so-obvious leaks, like around the
knob or deadbolt lock. The biggest bane of my front door was the mail
slot. If I hadn't moved, I was going to make a zippered bag to attach
to the slot which would block airflow but still provide a place for
the mail.

In your own house, consider adjusting your heating in rooms you don't
use as often - can you crank back the radiator or close the vent? Keep
doors to unoccupied rooms closed. Close drapes and blinds when there's
no direct sun (or in the Summer, keep 'em closed and the room dark to
prevent heating) - but open all of those curtains and blinds when it's
sunny 'cause nothing is better for heating a room than the big ol'
ball of gas 92.8 million miles away!

And, what the heck, have you considered a "distributed network" around
your house, putting your computers in different rooms and letting the
heat they generate help?

On Mar 4, 7:38 pm, "Scott Townsend"
wrote:
So on the Topic of "Insulate and fix the air leaks"

Any Tips Tricks? The main house has serious issues. It gets serious cold at
time without heat.
Close the door to the Computer Room/Office and that room is toasty, but the
rest of the house is very drafty.