On 02/28/08 01:36 pm dpb wrote:

But wouldn't it be more honest just to raise the price rather than
reduce the size?

But, it is a competitive market.

I wonder whether there are states without decent Weights and Measures
Departments. If so, the "gallons" of gas people buy there are probably a
pint or three short as well.

Perce

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 02/28/08 01:36 pm dpb wrote:

But wouldn't it be more honest just to raise the price rather than
reduce the size?

But, it is a competitive market.

I wonder whether there are states without decent Weights and Measures
Departments. If so, the "gallons" of gas people buy there are probably a
pint or three short as well.

Not at all the same thing -- the gallon is dispensed as a volume
measurement whereas the container on the shelf is labeled as to its
weight/volume.

It's nothing fraudulent at all, simply a marketing decision in a
competitive market.

Read the label, make your purchasing decision.

--

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"George" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"franz fripplfrappl" wrote in message
news On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. While wandering around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. They were one pint less than a gallon. Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! Of course the price remains
the
same! I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. (Quarts are now 28 ounces).
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.

It's a way to trick consumers into thinking the economy is hunky-dory
and
that inflation is in check. We're so used to buying containers that we
forget to read what's actually in them. By downsizing containers and
quantities, we are actually paying a higher percentage for goods than we
were 5 or 10 years ago.


Another bull**** answer from someone who thinks products reach the stores
by growing wings and flying there for free.
I doubt the poster thinks that at all and they gave an excellent analogy.
If he is painting a room and his cost goes up does he doesn't paint 80% of
the surfaces and try to spin it somehow that it is really a great job. He
would charge more to do the expected job.

I expect the same with products I buy. If the cost to produce goes up then
charge more. Don't shrink the size and print weasel words on the package
such as "new package but contents will perform as the old package etc..."

I for one am tired of big box and megacorps putting so much effort into
spin.


Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company, how
would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a gallon?


Due to higher manufacturing costs we will raise the price of our paint
by 4% on March 1. Thank you for your continued business.

On Feb 28, 6:47*pm, George wrote:
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"George" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"franz fripplfrappl" wrote in message
news On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. *While wandering around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. *They were one pint less than a gallon. *Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! *Of course the price remains
the
same! *I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. *(Quarts are now 28 ounces).
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. *A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. *5# of sugar is 4#. *Prices are more or less
the same.

It's a way to trick consumers into thinking the economy is hunky-dory
and
that inflation is in check. *We're so used to buying containers that we
forget to read what's actually in them. *By downsizing containers and
quantities, we are actually paying a higher percentage for goods than we
were 5 or 10 years ago.

Another bull**** answer from someone who thinks products reach the stores
by growing wings and flying there for free.
I doubt the poster thinks that at all and they gave an excellent analogy.
If he is painting a room and his cost goes up does he doesn't paint 80% of
the surfaces and try to spin it somehow that it is really a great job. He
would charge more to do the expected job.

I expect the same with products I buy. If the cost to produce goes up then
charge more. Don't shrink the size and print weasel words on the package
such as "new package but contents will perform as the old package etc...."

I for one am tired of big box and megacorps putting so much effort into
spin.

Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company, how
would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a gallon?

Due to higher manufacturing costs we will raise the price of our paint
by 4% on March 1. Thank you for your continued business.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And where would you post that info?

In article , franz fripplfrappl wrote:

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.

Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds" thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds"
thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.


True, but it happens more often that you'd think. As a whole, consumers are
not very bright. Marketing people are winning.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
The OP describes it as an attempt to fool people. That's bull****. What
kind of work do you do? Do you expect to get salary increases from time to
time?

This reminds me of a long debate in a cooking newsgroup, in which whiners
were complaining that Breyers had shrunk their 64 oz ice cream package.
This was portrayed as evil. Some of the idiots seemed to expect Breyer's
to send a post card to every household in America, informing them of the
change.


I don't begrudge a price increase when needed. The reason for the change
was profit by deception.

Breyers (and others) took a deceptive way out of raising prices. Ice cream
has been in 64 ounce containers for 60 years that I'm aware of and prices
have risen as cost have risen. It worked that way for a long time. Suddenly
the marketers found they could scam a lot of people into thinking they are
getting the same product for the same price. No matter how you look at it,
the purpose was to raise prices, not help the consumer. Egg cartons,
thankfully, still have 12 eggs in them.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

This reminds me of a long debate in a cooking newsgroup, in which whiners
were complaining that Breyers had shrunk their 64 oz ice cream package. This
was portrayed as evil. Some of the idiots seemed to expect Breyer's to send
a post card to every household in America, informing them of the change.

Annoying is shrinking the packaging. Evil is reducing the contents but leaving
the package size the same in the hopes that consumers won't notice. Ice cream
falls in the annoying category. Manufacturers of tuna, potato chips and quite a
few other products fall in the evil category.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company, how
would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a gallon?

I wouldn't reduce the size of the package - I'd raise the price. But paint is a
poor example, because except for the tint bases previously discussed, the
majority of paint is sold in full gallon containers.

A pound is 16 oz. Always was, probably always will be.

A pound of gold has only 12 ounces.

Gold is measured in Troy and is 12 Troy ounces.

The lb we know and love is measured in Avoirdupois.
1 Troy pound = 13.1..... Avoirdupois

Dick

On 02/28/08 10:39 pm Rick Blaine wrote:

Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company, how
would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a gallon?

I wouldn't reduce the size of the package - I'd raise the price. But paint is a
poor example, because except for the tint bases previously discussed, the
majority of paint is sold in full gallon containers.


The two cans of Pittsburgh we got recently came labeled as 3 7/8 quarts
and "White/Pastel Base." The one we had tinted would have come a little
closer to the full gallon (if it did not in fact reach it), but the one
we wanted left as plain white (untinted) would still have been 4oz.
short. All the other bases presumably had to have tint added, but not
the White. The store ads. gave the price per gallon. The label they
stuck on the tinted one said "Gallon."

Perce

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , franz fripplfrappl wrote:

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.

Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds" thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it. I am quite capable
of reading labels. A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply
wrong. A quart should be a quart. Not 28 oz "at everyday low prices".
Ironically it is everybody's friend the big box store (they tell us
that frequently so it must be true) that is behind this.

My buddy works for a company that manufactures packaging equipment. One
of their customers asked to have a "4 up" line installed. Usual
packaging for their product is "6 up" or a six pack. The reason was
because walmart had decided they could screw their customers thinking
that people wouldn't notice that the canned items were in a 4 pack and
think their buddy walmart was helping them with "low everyday prices".
It didn't work and the supplier took a serious hit because of the
money they had to spend on the line.

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:


The two cans of Pittsburgh we got recently came labeled as 3 7/8
quarts and "White/Pastel Base." The one we had tinted would have come
a little closer to the full gallon (if it did not in fact reach it),
but the one we wanted left as plain white (untinted) would still have
been 4oz. short. All the other bases presumably had to have tint
added, but not the White. The store ads. gave the price per gallon.
The label they stuck on the tinted one said "Gallon."


You could have had the store add 4oz of white tint...

On Feb 29, 8:27*am, George wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , franz fripplfrappl wrote:

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. *A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. *5# of sugar is 4#. *Prices are more or less
the same.

Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds" thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it. I am quite capable
of reading labels. A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply
wrong. A quart should be a quart. Not 28 oz *"at everyday low prices".
Ironically it is everybody's friend *the big box store (they tell us
that frequently so it must be true) that is behind this.

My buddy works for a company that manufactures packaging equipment. One
of their customers asked to have a "4 up" line installed. Usual
packaging for their product is "6 up" or a six pack. The reason was
because walmart had decided they could screw their customers thinking
that people wouldn't notice that the canned items were in a 4 pack and
think their buddy walmart was helping them with "low everyday prices".
* It didn't work and the supplier took a serious hit because of the
money they had to spend on the line.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it.

How is it *dishonest* if the package is correctly marked as to the
amount of product it contains?

I am quite capable of reading labels.

Then what's the issue? You read the label, you know how much is in the
package and how much it costs, you make a decision as to whether to
buy it or not. Next!

A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply wrong.

What's the standard? If you are referring to the de facto standard
that certain products have always been packaged in certain amounts,
then look up the definition of de facto. It's an agreed upon standard,
not anything legal. If everyone packages ice cream in 56 oz packages
from now on, that will eventually become the de facto standard.

A quart should be a quart

A quart is a quart. 28 oz is 28 oz. Please give us an example of a
product that is labeled as quart but only contains 28 oz.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here in case it was missed:

If you shop by unit pricing, it doesn't matter if the package is 28 oz
or 32 oz. You're paying for what you're getting - no one cheated, no
one lied. They simply raised the price by charging you the same amount
for less product - but they clearly informed you of the price increase
by posting the unit price on the shelf right next to the product.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
The OP describes it as an attempt to fool people. That's bull****. What
kind of work do you do? Do you expect to get salary increases from time
to time?

This reminds me of a long debate in a cooking newsgroup, in which whiners
were complaining that Breyers had shrunk their 64 oz ice cream package.
This was portrayed as evil. Some of the idiots seemed to expect Breyer's
to send a post card to every household in America, informing them of the
change.


I don't begrudge a price increase when needed. The reason for the change
was profit by deception.

Breyers (and others) took a deceptive way out of raising prices. Ice
cream has been in 64 ounce containers for 60 years that I'm aware of and
prices have risen as cost have risen. It worked that way for a long time.
Suddenly the marketers found they could scam a lot of people into thinking
they are getting the same product for the same price. No matter how you
look at it, the purpose was to raise prices, not help the consumer. Egg
cartons, thankfully, still have 12 eggs in them.


If you were the CEO at Breyers, how would YOU have instituted the price
change so it was not a "scam"???

You run the company, and people will do exactly what you say, no questions
asked. Describe your plan.

"George" wrote in message
. ..
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"George" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"franz fripplfrappl" wrote in message
news On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. While wandering
around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. They were one pint less than a gallon. Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! Of course the price remains
the
same! I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. (Quarts are now 28 ounces).
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.

It's a way to trick consumers into thinking the economy is hunky-dory
and
that inflation is in check. We're so used to buying containers that
we
forget to read what's actually in them. By downsizing containers and
quantities, we are actually paying a higher percentage for goods than
we
were 5 or 10 years ago.


Another bull**** answer from someone who thinks products reach the
stores by growing wings and flying there for free.
I doubt the poster thinks that at all and they gave an excellent
analogy. If he is painting a room and his cost goes up does he doesn't
paint 80% of the surfaces and try to spin it somehow that it is really a
great job. He would charge more to do the expected job.

I expect the same with products I buy. If the cost to produce goes up
then charge more. Don't shrink the size and print weasel words on the
package such as "new package but contents will perform as the old
package etc..."

I for one am tired of big box and megacorps putting so much effort into
spin.


Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company,
how would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a
gallon?
Due to higher manufacturing costs we will raise the price of our paint by
4% on March 1. Thank you for your continued business.


Now two people want an answer to the same question:

And where would you post that info?

"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
news
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

Then we're back to the heart of the matter: If you ran a paint company,
how
would you inform customers that the cans no longer contained a gallon?

I wouldn't reduce the size of the package - I'd raise the price. But paint
is a
poor example, because except for the tint bases previously discussed, the
majority of paint is sold in full gallon containers.


OK. Pick a different product and proceed with the same question. How would
you inform customers of the size change?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds,
not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds"
thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.


True, but it happens more often that you'd think. As a whole, consumers
are not very bright. Marketing people are winning.


One of your last three sentences doesn't belong with the other two.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:31:16 GMT, franz fripplfrappl
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. While wandering around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. They were one pint less than a gallon. Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! Of course the price remains the
same! I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. (Quarts are now 28 ounces).

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.


I've seen a lot of 4 pound bags of sugar. In what way can you call
these 5 pound bags?

It's a way to trick consumers into thinking the economy is hunky-dory and
that inflation is in check. We're so used to buying containers that we
forget to read what's actually in them. By downsizing containers and
quantities, we are actually paying a higher percentage for goods than we
were 5 or 10 years ago.

Next time I paint a wall, I'm going to paint only 80% of it and charge
the full amount. Same effect. I'll just have to convince customer that
the 20% unpainted looks great and is part of the decor.

Maybe you'd have needed 4 gallon cans of paint before. You still need
4 gallons of paint. You bought too little (4 56-ounce cans).
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:31:16 GMT, franz fripplfrappl
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. While wandering around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. They were one pint less than a gallon. Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! Of course the price remains the
same! I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. (Quarts are now 28 ounces).

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.


I've seen a lot of 4 pound bags of sugar. In what way can you call
these 5 pound bags?


I think the theory going around here is that the size change is sneaky
unless the customer is somehow notified. The clearly printed numbers on the
package aren't enough. Two better methods would be:

- Change the package. Sell sugar in a pyramid-shaped container with a spigot
on the side.
- Send a representative to the customer's house to explain the size change.

:-)

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:27 am, George wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , franz fripplfrappl wrote:
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.
Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds" thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.
It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it. I am quite capable
of reading labels. A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply
wrong. A quart should be a quart. Not 28 oz "at everyday low prices".
Ironically it is everybody's friend the big box store (they tell us
that frequently so it must be true) that is behind this.

My buddy works for a company that manufactures packaging equipment. One
of their customers asked to have a "4 up" line installed. Usual
packaging for their product is "6 up" or a six pack. The reason was
because walmart had decided they could screw their customers thinking
that people wouldn't notice that the canned items were in a 4 pack and
think their buddy walmart was helping them with "low everyday prices".
It didn't work and the supplier took a serious hit because of the
money they had to spend on the line.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it.

How is it *dishonest* if the package is correctly marked as to the
amount of product it contains?

Because it deviates from normally accepted standards/practices.

Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to
reflect a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?


Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?



I am quite capable of reading labels.

Then what's the issue? You read the label, you know how much is in the
package and how much it costs, you make a decision as to whether to
buy it or not. Next!

A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply wrong.

What's the standard? If you are referring to the de facto standard
that certain products have always been packaged in certain amounts,
then look up the definition of de facto. It's an agreed upon standard,
not anything legal. If everyone packages ice cream in 56 oz packages
from now on, that will eventually become the de facto standard.

A quart should be a quart

A quart is a quart. 28 oz is 28 oz. Please give us an example of a
product that is labeled as quart but only contains 28 oz.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here in case it was missed:

If you shop by unit pricing, it doesn't matter if the package is 28 oz
or 32 oz. You're paying for what you're getting - no one cheated, no
one lied. They simply raised the price by charging you the same amount
for less product - but they clearly informed you of the price increase
by posting the unit price on the shelf right next to the product.

"George" wrote in message
. ..
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:27 am, George wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , franz
fripplfrappl wrote:
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. 5# of sugar is 4#. Prices are more or less
the same.
Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds,
not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds"
thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.
It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it. I am quite capable
of reading labels. A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply
wrong. A quart should be a quart. Not 28 oz "at everyday low prices".
Ironically it is everybody's friend the big box store (they tell us
that frequently so it must be true) that is behind this.

My buddy works for a company that manufactures packaging equipment. One
of their customers asked to have a "4 up" line installed. Usual
packaging for their product is "6 up" or a six pack. The reason was
because walmart had decided they could screw their customers thinking
that people wouldn't notice that the canned items were in a 4 pack and
think their buddy walmart was helping them with "low everyday prices".
It didn't work and the supplier took a serious hit because of the
money they had to spend on the line.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it.

How is it *dishonest* if the package is correctly marked as to the
amount of product it contains?

Because it deviates from normally accepted standards/practices.

Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to reflect
a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled over
for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues a
ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?


Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?



You are the CEO at Breyers. You're about to shrink your ice cream
containers. How would YOU notify customers?

Nobody else is involved. Just you. Whatever idea you have for notifying
customers, your employees will make it happen. Describe your idea(s).

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
....
You are the CEO at Breyers. You're about to shrink your ice cream
containers. How would YOU notify customers?

Nobody else is involved. Just you. Whatever idea you have for notifying
customers, your employees will make it happen. Describe your idea(s).

More appropriately, you're CEO at Breyers and your input costs owing to
fuel and milk have risen 20%, health care ancillary costs for employees
and salaries by 30% and you're still in competition w/ all the others
for shelf space in the markets and customer share. How do you maintain
market share and still have an acceptable margin?

--

On Feb 29, 9:52*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

...





On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:31:16 GMT, franz fripplfrappl
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800, greg2468 wrote:

I recently went to our favorite big box store. *While wandering around
the paint department, I noticed that most brands sold there are no
longer full gallons. *They were one pint less than a gallon. *Yet,
spread rate magically remains the same! *Of course the price remains the
same! *I live in the southeast United State and am curious to know if
this has happened in other areas. *(Quarts are now 28 ounces).

Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. *A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. *5# of sugar is 4#. *Prices are more or less
the same.

I've seen a lot of 4 pound bags of sugar. In what way can you call
these 5 pound bags?

I think the theory going around here is that the size change is sneaky
unless the customer is somehow notified. The clearly printed numbers on the
package aren't enough. Two better methods would be:

- Change the package. Sell sugar in a pyramid-shaped container with a spigot
on the side.
- Send a representative to the customer's house to explain the size change..

:-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Mr. Room, I can see by your responses that you and I are on the same
side of this discussion, so this response is for the benefits of
others, not a direct response to you.

I think the theory going around here is that the size change is
sneaky unless the customer is somehow notified.

3rd try at getting this across - they were notified! Maybe a picture
will help...

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he516-3.gif

"dpb" wrote in message ...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
...
You are the CEO at Breyers. You're about to shrink your ice cream
containers. How would YOU notify customers?

Nobody else is involved. Just you. Whatever idea you have for notifying
customers, your employees will make it happen. Describe your idea(s).

More appropriately, you're CEO at Breyers and your input costs owing to
fuel and milk have risen 20%, health care ancillary costs for employees
and salaries by 30% and you're still in competition w/ all the others for
shelf space in the markets and customer share. How do you maintain market
share and still have an acceptable margin?

--


Exactly. Not only that, but you (and some supermarkets) have some of the
most advanced data processing methods available, and you know for a fact
that you move a LOT less ice cream when the price approaches $4.00 per half
gallon (old size). So, you have a choice: Leave things as they are, raise
prices, or shrink the package.

clipped



Exactly. Not only that, but you (and some supermarkets) have some of the
most advanced data processing methods available, and you know for a fact
that you move a LOT less ice cream when the price approaches $4.00 per half
gallon (old size). So, you have a choice: Leave things as they are, raise
prices, or shrink the package.




I was an occasional Walmart shopper back in the early days. It was
tough to compare prices because
it seemed that stuff at Walmart was packaged differently that the same
brands in other stores - stuff
like detergent, shampoo, etc. I didn't shop Walmart often enough to
become familiar with pricing,
and I think I quit while they were still on their "Made in America"
line. In one town I lived for a few years,
Walmart escorted out of the store some shoppers who had been writing
down prices so's they could
compare. That was when I quit Walmart. One of my last purchases at
Walmart was a gallon of paint
remover, because other stores were out of stock, at $7 more than the
same size, same brank I had
purchased locally a couple of weeks before.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:



You are the CEO at Breyers. You're about to shrink your ice cream
containers. How would YOU notify customers?

Nobody else is involved. Just you. Whatever idea you have for
notifying customers, your employees will make it happen. Describe
your idea(s).

"New Family Size!" (to reflect the size of new families)

"Economy Size!"

"More miles to the gallon!"

"Healthy pack!"

"Doctor approved!"

"Fewer calories!"

"Less filling, more taste!"

There's really no limit...

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:



You are the CEO at Breyers. You're about to shrink your ice cream
containers. How would YOU notify customers?

Nobody else is involved. Just you. Whatever idea you have for
notifying customers, your employees will make it happen. Describe
your idea(s).

"New Family Size!" (to reflect the size of new families)

"Economy Size!"

"More miles to the gallon!"

"Healthy pack!"

"Doctor approved!"

"Fewer calories!"

"Less filling, more taste!"

There's really no limit...



Those ideas are as ****ty as the so-called "deception" which some are
complaining about in this discussion.

On Feb 29, 10:45*am, George wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:27 am, George wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , franz fripplfrappl wrote:
Take a walk down the aisles in a grocery store sometime. *A pound of
coffee is about 9 ounces. *5# of sugar is 4#. *Prices are more or less
the same.
Utter nonsense. A pound is sixteen ounces. Five pounds is five pounds, not
four. If you buy a bag of sugar that is _plainly_marked_ "4 pounds" thinking
it is five, you need to be looking in the mirror for the source of that
problem.
It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it. I am quite capable
of reading labels. A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply
wrong. A quart should be a quart. Not 28 oz *"at everyday low prices"..
Ironically it is everybody's friend *the big box store (they tell us
that frequently so it must be true) that is behind this.

My buddy works for a company that manufactures packaging equipment. One
of their customers asked to have a "4 up" line installed. Usual
packaging for their product is "6 up" or a six pack. The reason was
because walmart had decided they could screw their customers thinking
that people wouldn't notice that the canned items were in a 4 pack and
think their buddy walmart was helping them with "low everyday prices".
* It didn't work and the supplier took a serious hit because of the
money they had to spend on the line.

It is still dishonest no matter how you look at it.

How is it *dishonest* if the package is correctly marked as to the
amount of product it contains?

Because it deviates from normally accepted standards/practices.

Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to
reflect a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?





I am quite capable of reading labels.

Then what's the issue? You read the label, you know how much is in the
package and how much it costs, you make a decision as to whether to
buy it or not. Next!

A short quantity non-standard packaging is simply wrong.

What's the standard? If you are referring to the de facto standard
that certain products have always been packaged in certain amounts,
then look up the definition of de facto. It's an agreed upon standard,
not anything legal. If everyone packages ice cream in 56 oz packages
from now on, that will eventually become the de facto standard.

A quart should be a quart

A quart is a quart. 28 oz is 28 oz. Please give us an example of a
product that is labeled as quart but only contains 28 oz.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here in case it was missed:

If you shop by unit pricing, it doesn't matter if the package is 28 oz
or 32 oz. You're paying for what you're getting - no one cheated, no
one lied. They simply raised the price by charging you the same amount
for less product - but they clearly informed you of the price increase
by posting the unit price on the shelf right next to the product.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Are you really expecting an answer to those questions?

If I must...

To keep it simple, here's a short program I wrote:

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
Else Driver Guilty of Speeding

Gimme a break. The town has no *obligation* to inform drivers of a
change in the speed limit or of the parking rules. Would it be nice if
they did? Sure. Do they try to do it in most cases? Sure. However,
it's the obligation of the person driving the route or parking his car
to read the signs and follow the rules or risk paying the
consequences. Just like it's the obligation of the shopper to read the
labels and determine for themselves how much they're getting and how
much they're paying for it.

Ya know, by your logic, we shouldn't have to pay the same price for
the smaller package because they didn't tell us beforehand. Let me
know how that works out for you.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
Else Driver Guilty of Speeding


================

Nice, but you forgot to close your loop with an ENDIF or something. :-)

On Feb 29, 12:40*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
*If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
* *Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
*Else Driver Guilty of Speeding

================

Nice, but you forgot to close your loop with an ENDIF or
something. *:-)

Actually, pertaining to this discussion, I didn't declare my variables
beforehand so by rights the code should be bitching and complaining
that I didn't warn it about what was going to happen.

On Feb 29, 9:20*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
OK. Pick a different product and proceed with the same question. How would
you inform customers of the size change?

Oh, but they wouldn't reduce the size of their containers. They've
said that. They'd raise the prices.

It seems like only about three people in this thread understand the
reality of the situation: People as a general rule shop for cheapest
price, period. They buy the cheapest "gallon" of paint they can find,
because it's cheaper, plain and simple.

It's only later on when, "Hey this isn't a gallon! It's 3-3/4 quarts!
I've been ripped off!" No, you're not being ripped off, you're an
idiot for not doing your homework!

wrote in message
...
On Feb 29, 9:20 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
OK. Pick a different product and proceed with the same question. How would
you inform customers of the size change?

Oh, but they wouldn't reduce the size of their containers. They've
said that. They'd raise the prices.

It seems like only about three people in this thread understand the
reality of the situation: People as a general rule shop for cheapest
price, period. They buy the cheapest "gallon" of paint they can find,
because it's cheaper, plain and simple.

It's only later on when, "Hey this isn't a gallon! It's 3-3/4 quarts!
I've been ripped off!" No, you're not being ripped off, you're an
idiot for not doing your homework!

======================


It would be interesting to know what those three people do for a living. I
always ask, because I suspect their work is completely disconnected from the
financial issues of their employers.

On 02/29/08 10:59 am DerbyDad03 wrote:

I think the theory going around here is that the size change is
sneaky unless the customer is somehow notified.

3rd try at getting this across - they were notified! Maybe a picture
will help...

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he516-3.gif


That's a great idea as long as the labels for all the packs of sugar
(lets say) use the same units for the price per unit. The laws may vary
form state to state, but what I have seen often is Brand X's unit price
in cents per ounce and that of Brand Y next to it in dollars per pound.
Of course one can do the conversion, but that surely isn't what the
instigators of unit pricing had in mind.

(At least if they do that kind of thing in a sensible country that uses
the metric system it's only a matter of adding one or more zeros or
moving a decimal point.)

Moreover, the stores often don't post revised unit pricing labels when
an item is on sale: the shelf tag still shows the regular price.

Perce

On 02/29/08 12:30 pm DerbyDad03 wrote:

Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to
reflect a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?
Are you really expecting an answer to those questions?

If I must...

To keep it simple, here's a short program I wrote:

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
Else Driver Guilty of Speeding

Gimme a break. The town has no *obligation* to inform drivers of a
change in the speed limit or of the parking rules. Would it be nice if
they did? Sure. Do they try to do it in most cases? Sure. However,
it's the obligation of the person driving the route or parking his car
to read the signs and follow the rules or risk paying the
consequences. Just like it's the obligation of the shopper to read the
labels and determine for themselves how much they're getting and how
much they're paying for it.

Ya know, by your logic, we shouldn't have to pay the same price for
the smaller package because they didn't tell us beforehand. Let me
know how that works out for you.


The speed limit illustration demonstrates another result of
decentralization and letting every little tin-pot community make its own
rules. When I was growing up in UK there was only one speed limit: 30mph
(with some clearly posted exceptions, such as within x feet/yards of a
hospital entrance, where it might have been 20mph or less). So it was
30mph or unrestricted. If there was "a system of street lighting"
(defined, ISTR, as a system of lights spaced not more than x feet/yards
apart -- so a solitary street light miles from anywhere didn't count),
the speed limit was 30mph unless otherwise indicated. If there was no
such "system of street lighting," there was no speed limit, unless
otherwise indicated -- and that indication had to be repeated by
miniature speed-limit signs spaced not more than x feet/yards apart.
None of this one speed limit sign hidden behind bushes at the township
limit and a police officer lurking around the next bend with a radar
gun. (Later they introduced a 40mph speed limit, some areas going from
30mph to 40mph and some going from no limit to 40mph. BTW, one survey
showed that drivers often slowed down on going from a 30mph zone to a
40mph zone: a 30mph limit was too low to be taken seriously, but 40mph
was reasonable.)

In New York I used to drive one stretch of road quite often. The road
conditions and population density were about the same, but the speed
limit varied from 40mph to 25mph to 35mph to 30mph, depending on the
whim of the particular village's legislators. Ridiculous!

(I just remembered that in one or two places in the USA I have seen
advance warning signs reading "New Speed Limit Ahead.")

Perce

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Damned sure I'll protest. Good chance I'll beat it also based on historic
renderings of most traffic courts.
..

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 02/29/08 12:30 pm DerbyDad03 wrote:

Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to
reflect a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?
Are you really expecting an answer to those questions?

If I must...

To keep it simple, here's a short program I wrote:

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
Else Driver Guilty of Speeding

Gimme a break. The town has no *obligation* to inform drivers of a
change in the speed limit or of the parking rules. Would it be nice if
they did? Sure. Do they try to do it in most cases? Sure. However,
it's the obligation of the person driving the route or parking his car
to read the signs and follow the rules or risk paying the
consequences. Just like it's the obligation of the shopper to read the
labels and determine for themselves how much they're getting and how
much they're paying for it.

Ya know, by your logic, we shouldn't have to pay the same price for
the smaller package because they didn't tell us beforehand. Let me
know how that works out for you.


The speed limit illustration demonstrates another result of
decentralization and letting every little tin-pot community make its own
rules. When I was growing up in UK there was only one speed limit: 30mph
(with some clearly posted exceptions, such as within x feet/yards of a
hospital entrance, where it might have been 20mph or less). So it was
30mph or unrestricted. If there was "a system of street lighting"
(defined, ISTR, as a system of lights spaced not more than x feet/yards
apart -- so a solitary street light miles from anywhere didn't count), the
speed limit was 30mph unless otherwise indicated. If there was no such
"system of street lighting," there was no speed limit, unless otherwise
indicated -- and that indication had to be repeated by miniature
speed-limit signs spaced not more than x feet/yards apart. None of this
one speed limit sign hidden behind bushes at the township limit and a
police officer lurking around the next bend with a radar gun. (Later they
introduced a 40mph speed limit, some areas going from 30mph to 40mph and
some going from no limit to 40mph. BTW, one survey showed that drivers
often slowed down on going from a 30mph zone to a 40mph zone: a 30mph
limit was too low to be taken seriously, but 40mph was reasonable.)

In New York I used to drive one stretch of road quite often. The road
conditions and population density were about the same, but the speed limit
varied from 40mph to 25mph to 35mph to 30mph, depending on the whim of the
particular village's legislators. Ridiculous!

(I just remembered that in one or two places in the USA I have seen
advance warning signs reading "New Speed Limit Ahead.")

Perce


zzzzzzzzzzzz......

If you can't read the signs, you're in the 90% of drivers who are
incompetent in one way or another.

On Feb 29, 2:37*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message



The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Damned sure I'll protest. *Good chance I'll beat it also based on historic
renderings of most traffic courts.
.

No argument there, but please explain how this has anything to do with
the fact that Ice Cream no longer comes in 64 oz containers.

On Feb 29, 2:30*pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 02/29/08 12:30 pm DerbyDad03 wrote:





Lets say that you have been driving through "Smithville" every day
forever. One night "Smithville" changes all of the speed signs to
reflect a speed which is now 20 MPH lower.

The next morning you are driving through "Smithville" and are pulled
over for speeding. The officer points out the new signs and then issues
a ticket. Would you accept the ticket, plead guilty and pay the fine or
protest it because of lack of notice?

Or lets say that you have been parking in "Brownville" forever to do
errands etc on your way home. The "Brownville" parking rules have been
free parking after 6PM forever. They change the rules without any
announcement and you find a $45 ticket on your car. Would you pay it?
Are you really expecting an answer to those questions?

If I must...

To keep it simple, here's a short program I wrote:

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then Driver Guilty of Speeding

How would you like it to read?

PSL = Posted Speed Limit
DS = Driver's Speed
IF DS PSL Then
*If Driver has been driving the route every day forever then
* *Driver Not Guilty of Speeding
*Else Driver Guilty of Speeding

Gimme a break. The town has no *obligation* to inform drivers of a
change in the speed limit or of the parking rules. Would it be nice if
they did? Sure. Do they try to do it in most cases? Sure. *However,
it's the obligation of the person driving the route or parking his car
to read the signs and follow the rules or risk paying the
consequences. Just like it's the obligation of the shopper to read the
labels and determine for themselves how much they're getting and how
much they're paying for it.

Ya know, by your logic, we shouldn't have to pay the same price for
the smaller package because they didn't tell us beforehand. Let me
know how that works out for you.

The speed limit illustration demonstrates another result of
decentralization and letting every little tin-pot community make its own
rules. When I was growing up in UK there was only one speed limit: 30mph
(with some clearly posted exceptions, such as within x feet/yards of a
hospital entrance, where it might have been 20mph or less). So it was
30mph or unrestricted. If there was "a system of street lighting"
(defined, ISTR, as a system of lights spaced not more than x feet/yards
apart -- so a solitary street light miles from anywhere didn't count),
the speed limit was 30mph unless otherwise indicated. If there was no
such "system of street lighting," there was no speed limit, unless
otherwise indicated -- and that indication had to be repeated by
miniature speed-limit signs spaced not more than x feet/yards apart.
None of this one speed limit sign hidden behind bushes at the township
limit and a police officer lurking around the next bend with a radar
gun. (Later they introduced a 40mph speed limit, some areas going from
30mph to 40mph and some going from no limit to 40mph. BTW, one survey
showed that drivers often slowed down on going from a 30mph zone to a
40mph zone: a 30mph limit was too low to be taken seriously, but 40mph
was reasonable.)

In New York I used to drive one stretch of road quite often. The road
conditions and population density were about the same, but the speed
limit varied from 40mph to 25mph to 35mph to 30mph, depending on the
whim of the particular village's legislators. Ridiculous!

(I just remembered that in one or two places in the USA I have seen
advance warning signs reading "New Speed Limit Ahead.")

Perce- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

.

On Feb 29, 2:08*pm, "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
On 02/29/08 10:59 am DerbyDad03 wrote:

*I think the theory going around here is that the size change is
sneaky unless the customer is somehow notified.

3rd try at getting this across - they were notified! Maybe a picture
will help...

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/he516-3.gif

That's a great idea as long as the labels for all the packs of sugar
(lets say) use the same units for the price per unit. The laws may vary
form state to state, but what I have seen often is Brand X's unit price
in cents per ounce and that of Brand Y next to it in dollars per pound.
Of course one can do the conversion, but that surely isn't what the
instigators of unit pricing had in mind.

(At least if they do that kind of thing in a sensible country that uses
the metric system it's only a matter of adding one or more zeros or
moving a decimal point.)

Moreover, the stores often don't post revised unit pricing labels when
an item is on sale: the shelf tag still shows the regular price.

Perce

That's a great idea as long as the labels for all the packs of
sugar (lets say) use the same units for the price per unit.

Bringing up an issue specific to unit pricing doesn't negate the idea
that shopping via unit pricing eliminates the "they made the package
smaller" problem.

Inconsistancies within the unit pricing system is a matter worthy of
another discussion, but the bottom line is that by using unit pricing
I don't have to care if they change the package size without changing
the price. I know how much I'm paying on a per unit basis and I know
how much product is in the package. And I sure don't care if they
don't call me everytime they make a change to the package size, shape
or color.