Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

Yes, they are available, and U.L. approved. They're sold under a variety of
names,like American circuit breaker, but just as for FP breakers at the
supply house. I wouldn't recommend pulling apart the double

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...
I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?


If you remove the two pole breaker and install a single pole breaker you
will need to install a panel seal to fill in the empty space on the panel
cover. These may be more difficult to find than the single pole circuit
breaker. If the two pole breaker is the correct amp rating, just use one
side of that and don't worry about cutting the tie handle. Don't put a wire
on the second pole. Just label it on the panel cover "120 volts" or
something like that.

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

On Feb 26, 3:14*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

Yes, they are available, and U.L. approved. They're sold under a variety of
names,like American circuit breaker, but just as for FP breakers at the
supply house. I wouldn't recommend pulling apart the double

Occasionally seen single pole breakers of variuos types at hardware
stores. Whether these compatible with FP not sure but worth a try.
As a temporary idea, until you round up the correct breaker while not
correct to code, but using only one pole of a breaker should work OK?
Thai si if amperage rating exceeded due to, say a fault, on the one
leg in use the whole breaker should trip. Right.

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

On Feb 26, 7:01�am, Mikepier wrote:
I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

just leave the existing 2 pole in place, and dont connect to the non
used side. dual pole breakers are designed to trip if either side
draws too much current, so the tie is meaningless

simple quick easy way to keep you FPE fire hazard breaker cabinet
going:(

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

On Feb 26, 8:01�am, terry wrote:
On Feb 26, 3:14�pm, "RBM" wrote:





"Mikepier" wrote in message

...

I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

Yes, they are available, and U.L. approved. They're sold under a variety of
names,like American circuit breaker, but just as for FP breakers at the
supply house. I wouldn't recommend pulling apart the double

Occasionally seen single pole breakers of variuos types at hardware
stores. Whether these compatible with FP not sure but worth a try.
As a temporary idea, until you round up the correct breaker while not
correct to code, but using only one pole of a breaker should work OK?
Thai si if amperage rating exceeded due to, say a fault, on the one
leg in use the whole breaker should trip. Right.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

buy 2 replacement breakers, leave one as a spare if you cant find a
cover plate

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

Mikepier wrote:
I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

As several people have indicated, a 2 pole breaker has a common trip.
Cutting the handle tie is not likely to change that. Modifying an FPE
breaker is not a good idea.

One of the failures of FPE breakers is if there is overcurrent on a 2
pole breaker, but the current is not the same on both poles, the breaker
can jam and never trip. Using poles of an FPE 2 pole breaker for other
than a 240 V load is not a good idea.

Information on jamming comes from very limited testing done for the
Consumer Product Safety Commission. I don't think breakers above 40A
were tested. One wonders about service breakers with overload on one leg.

A couple of links for FPE info:
http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
when I last looked a lot of the information was based on CPSC tests

http://www.codecheck.com/pdf/electrical/240overcurrent/FPE%20Article%20from%20DH%20-%20Nov2003.pdf

--
bud--

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

I see them at hardware stores and used ones are available on eBay all
the time. However, if you get any of the used ones you want ones with
white lettering (newer) ones, not the older red ones. I have a FPE
panel and it works just fine, and yes I've tested all my breakers.

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

According to Mikepier :
I am renovating a kitchen in an apartment building in which all of the
units have Federal Pacific panels ( I know, that's a whole different
topic, the building owners are well aware of the issues with them) .
I would like to add another circuit to the panel, there is room. The
problem is do they still make replacement or aftermarket breakers for
these panels? The other option I have is to use a 2 pole breaker that
was for a 220V A/C that is not used anymore, but do I , or can I,
physically cut the pin that joins the 2 breaklers so each can operate
seperately?

Don't cut the pin. IIRC the main problems that US FPE breakers had
were duals hanging up.

FPE (as "Federal Pioneer") "StabLok" is still being manufactured.
Schneider Electric of Canada acquired the rights when Federal Pacific
went under. You can even get arc fault versions, and are still common
in new construction. FPE breakers are available in most hardware/DIY
stores here, including Home Depot, at prices just like any other
breaker.

Schneider's web site doesn't make it clear whether they distribute to
the US or not, but they do list Ace Hardware as a retailer, and I don't
think Ace is in Canada at all.

You might try:

1) Ace Hardware
2) If you live close to Canada, drop over the border to a Home
Depot or Home Hardware etc.
3) Mailorder from Canada

With an older FPE system, it seems the best thing to do is to go thru
the net and find out exactly what's problemmatic. I believe there's
two issues: US FPE 20A duals of a wide vintage, and Schneider 15A
singles of a later and very narrow vintage, and then see if your
panels have the problemmatic units and get 'em replaced.

I believe Schneider will still replace free any of the 15As of the bad
vintages.

My SIL's house recently had some major renovation work done (new
circuits, rearranging feeds etc). 1900's home, incremental wiring
replacements done over the past 50 years. FPE. Checked it out, had
none of the problemmatic breakers. System is just fine.

Given that CSA is generally somewhat more aggressive in resolving issues
like this than UL, I trust current generations of FPE. There's no
reason to believe the problems with US FPE are still around.
Besides, Schneider owns Square D too ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

Adding circuit to FPE panel, are breakers still available?
 

On Feb 27, 3:57 am, bud-- wrote:
wrote:
I have a FPE
panel and it works just fine, and yes I've tested all my breakers.

.
Your circuit breakers must have had no problem staying plugged in - one
of the problems with some panels. It probably does not help that when
you turn most breakers on they tend to unplug.

I know you must have operated the breakers many times before testing
knowing that the failure rate is much higher after mechanical operation.

When testing trip under overload I wouldn't even test 2 pole breakers
with equal current on both poles because the failure rate is much higher
with overload on only one pole. In addition did you test with current on
both poles also?

I'm sure you tested at both 135% and 200% of rating. Surprising how many
breakers didn't trip at all at 135% - over half in some tests. Where
did you get the acceptable trip times at 135% and 200%. This doesn't
seem to be real available information. Also what did you use for the
current source. I'm sure in addition to the tests on breakers up to 80A
that was done for the CPSC you tested the service disconnect which is
probably 100A. What did you use for the 200A current source?

Are the busses in your panel made of multiple parts screwed together? If
they are you probably took the panel apart so you could determine if the
bus connections were loose and arcing. It would be much easier if this
damage could be seen without disassembly.

It could be your breakers and panel were not made during the period when
FPE was fraudulently sending false information to UL and your equipment
was not among that delisted by UL.

In short, I applaud our effort in making sure your panel is safe. It
would be of great benefit to others if you could provide instructions on
how you did your tests.

--
bud--

I personally watched a dead short not trip a FPE breaker, the wire
turned cherry red and exploded, i was stunned.

one a FPE breaker trips once its much less likely to ever trip again