This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas the
new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted three
years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has rusted
through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it? I
want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the rest
of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

cybercat wrote:
This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas the
new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted three
years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has rusted
through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it? I
want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the rest
of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.


There is no "seal." You remove the lid, remove the seal/handle/hardware
etc, take it to a body shop, and have them media blast it and refinish
it like a car body.

You *could* brush a coat of POR-15 on it which is one of only a few
products available that will actually seal rust, but then when you try
to wetsand it to prep for paint, you'll discover that it's also hard as
nails and doesn't sand well.

Good luck with your project, I agree with you, 40s/50s stuff is cool and
worth saving. I only wish the previous owners of my house had felt the
same way... (the old kitchen cabinets in the laundry room are much more
to my liking than the ones in the kitchen...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"cybercat" wrote in message

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it?
I want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the
rest of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

I'd sand it and use appliance paint if I wanted to make it look good. Or
have a pro do it and it will look factory new..

OTOH, I'd scrap it out and save a bundle of money on my electric bill. The
newspaper had an article about old appliances. One family cut their bill in
half by getting rid of an old freezer and replacing it with a new, albeit
smaller one. A few years ago I got rid of an old 12 cu ft refrigerator in
the basement and replaced it with a new 18 cu. ft. frost free. Electric bill
went down $10 a month. Paid for itself in just over 3 years.

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
Good luck with your project, I agree with you, 40s/50s stuff is cool and
worth saving.

Worth saving for appearance, NOT worth savings for the cost of operation.
Most older appliances cost many times to operate compared to the new stuff.

Wow cool stuff. I would love to see pictures before or after.

We love old cool stuff.... our phone has a dial on it our coffee pot is from
the early 50's and we camp in trailers from the 30's through the 50's which
can have cool old appliances in them that often times work just fine.

www.vintagetrailersofrsale.com

cm


"cybercat" wrote in message
...
This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas
the new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted
three years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has
rusted through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it?
I want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the
rest of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

I have recently been measuring the power consumed by a 1969 and a 2008
fridge freezer of nearly equal size, about 14 c ft for each unit. I
used two of those power measuring meters that are available these
days.

The 1969 unit uses about 10% more power than the newer unit.

This isn't saving a lot of money since the new unit's power
consumption is approximately equal to a 40W bulb running continuously.
(Btw this is typical a power consumption of modern refrigerators.)

At 18 c Kw/Hr a mere 4 W saving per hour isn't ever going to amount to
much money.

Refrigerators/freezers typically use less than a 60W bulb running
continuously.

At 18 cents/KwHr this costs $ (60/1000) X 24 X365 X 0.18 pa

= $94.60 pa

Here in Australia refrigerators and freezers typically cost $900 or so
new. Even if your new refrigerator/freezer used zero power compared to
the old rerfigerator at $94.60 pa it would take about 10 years to pay
for the new refrigerator.

In practice, as measured on my actual 1969/2008 units and with a mere
10% _measured_ difference in efficiency, it would be more like 100
years payback time.

Fix your 1950's unit and enjoy!

I'd suggest power savings with new units would be minimal.

Otoh convincing folk to buy new units means a lot of $$$$$ to
manufacturers.

Ross

RMD wrote:

At 18 c Kw/Hr a mere 4 W saving per hour isn't ever going to amount to
much money...

I'd suggest power savings with new units would be minimal.

You need new units... "Kw/Hr" and "watts per hour" are meaningless units.

Learn the difference between power and energy.

Nick

"cybercat" wrote

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949

Great units. We ended up giving one away to the local 'soup kitchen' as we
also had a newer one bought when we were living in Japan.

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has
rusted through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

It is fixable. How much depends on what you want to spend and if it's in a
highly visible location.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it?
I want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the
rest of the thing.

Ours was in the garage so it wasnt critical to have it 'perfect' but the
finished job turned out near enough to that for use inside had we wanted to.

It was bought used and had rust spots. Don used a medium grade sand paper
then a fine one to finish it off. Then he primed it with a regular store
metal primer and used spray paint. That was some 9 years ago and when we
gave it away 3 months ago, no sign of rust returning.

Since he hand sanded it, he took it in small slots of time, say 10-15 mins a
day. We were not in a rush. I think he took perhaps 2 hours total sanding
time over 2-3 weeks. In the interum, we were using it just fine.

He primed it with stuff you just paint on. Came time to spray, we just
turned it off (not sure of sucking any of the spray in and it doesnt take
long) then plugged it back in when done with the spray.

Sure, you can take the door off or the whoile unit to have it powder coated
or done by a car-chop, but if you do not need that much perfection, it's
easy to do at home.

On Feb 24, 3:23�am, (RMD) wrote:
I have recently been measuring the power consumed by a 1969 and a 2008
fridge freezer of nearly equal size, about 14 c ft for each unit. I
used two of those power measuring meters that are available these
days.

The 1969 unit uses about 10% more power than the newer unit.

This isn't saving a lot of money since the new unit's power
consumption is approximately equal to a 40W bulb running continuously.
(Btw this is typical a power consumption of modern refrigerators.)

At 18 c Kw/Hr a mere 4 W saving per hour isn't ever going to amount to
much money.

Refrigerators/freezers typically use less than a 60W bulb running
continuously.

At 18 cents/KwHr this costs $ (60/1000) X 24 X365 X 0.18 pa

= $94.60 pa

Here in Australia refrigerators and freezers typically cost $900 or so
new. Even if your new refrigerator/freezer used zero power compared to
the old rerfigerator at $94.60 pa it would take about 10 years to pay
for the new refrigerator.

In practice, as measured on my actual 1969/2008 units and with a mere
10% _measured_ difference in efficiency, it would be more like 100
years payback time.

Fix your 1950's unit and enjoy!

I'd suggest power savings with new units would be minimal.

Otoh convincing folk to buy new units means a lot of $$$$$ to
manufacturers.

Ross

was that a test over a week or a few minutes?

newer appliances have much better insulation so overall energy
consumption is less.

its not just a matter of running current............

On Feb 23, 8:07*pm, "cybercat" wrote:
This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas the
new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted three
years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has rusted
through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it? I
want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the rest
of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Get a Kill A Watt meter and find out what it costs to run, those old
units were energy hogs, You might get a 2 yr payback on a new unit.

"ransley" wrote

Get a Kill A Watt meter and find out what it costs to run, those old
units were energy hogs, You might get a 2 yr payback on a new unit.

Extremely doubtful. Yes newer ones are more efficient but not that
radically so when new units of that size are 700$ and up. She's much better
off just banking the food savings money until it eventually needs more freon
(which she wont be able to get for the older unit nor is it cost effective
to try to adapt them). She's probably getting 40$ a year electric more for
it vice a newer model. I know. I had one like it. It will take 17 YEARS
to pay off at that rate.

On Feb 24, 11:00*am, "cshenk" wrote:
"ransley" wrote

Get a Kill A Watt meter and find out what it costs to run, those old
units were energy hogs, You might get a 2 yr payback on a new unit.

Extremely doubtful. *Yes newer ones are more efficient but not that
radically so when new units of that size are 700$ and up. *She's much better
off just banking the food savings money until it eventually needs more freon
(which she wont be able to get for the older unit nor is it cost effective
to try to adapt them). *She's probably getting 40$ a year electric more for
it vice a newer model. *I know. *I had one like it. *It will take 17 YEARS
to pay off at that rate.

New units are up to 75% more efficient, it could cost 20+ a month to
run what she has now or save 400 in 2 years by getting a new unit. Im
sure you never tested them.

"ransley" wrote

Extremely doubtful. Yes newer ones are more efficient but not that
radically so when new units of that size are 700$ and up. She's much
better

New units are up to 75% more efficient, it could cost 20+ a month to
run what she has now or save 400 in 2 years by getting a new unit. Im
sure you never tested them.

No I never 'tested'. I didnt need to as I have live experience . *I had
one*. You'll note the only other person to reply who has had one said the
same. You are acting like the new ones run for free. They dont. The
difference in cost per month is a few dollars. Can be 3 or 4 depending on
how expensive electric is where you are.

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here. Want
to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? I *know* what I am
talking about. She should save the unit as long as possible and not create
more landfill.

"cshenk" wrote in message

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here.
Want to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? I *know*
what I am talking about. She should save the unit as long as possible and
not create more landfill.

My experience differs from your. Put that hunk of metal in the recycle bin
and save tons of fuel with a new one. Payback can easily be two to four
years. Not to mention features of a newer model.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"cshenk" wrote in message

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here.
Want to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? I *know*
what I am talking about. She should save the unit as long as possible
and not create more landfill.

My experience differs from your. Put that hunk of metal in the recycle
bin and save tons of fuel with a new one. Payback can easily be two to
four years. Not to mention features of a newer model.
There are more important things than money, Edwin. If I wanted to trash this
old beauty, I would have said so. I will restore it, and keep it for another
30 years.

"cshenk" wrote

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here.
Want to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? I *know*
what I am talking about. She should save the unit as long as possible and
not create more landfill.
I will, but not for that reason. I am keeping it because I love the look and
feel
of it, and it works great! Our electric bill is low for people who use so
many
electronics, too. The best reason to keep it: it, and the 1949 GE
refrigerator
next to it has run without a hitch for ten years, after running in the same
spots
from at least 1969 to 1998 when we bought this house. The owner left me
all the documentation for all of the appliances that came with the house.
These
are in the utility in the finished basement. While the 1970s fridge in the
kitchen
died along with the 1980s dishwasher and the 1980s hood fan over the stove,
these beauties have hummed along smoothly for all these years. And, again,
when we replaced the kitchen fridge with a new Whirlpook with all the bells
and whistles, it broke after 3 years. I was so ****ed at paying over a grand
for a bunch of plastic, I won't have it fixed. I am the cook in the house,
and
if I want to go downstairs to get my stuff, I guess I can.

"ransley" wrote:

Get a Kill A Watt meter and find out what it costs to run, those old
units were energy hogs, You might get a 2 yr payback on a new unit.

Did I say I was interested in saving money? I'd rather pay more just so
that I can handle enameled steep and chrome and glass rather than plastic.

"CM" wrote in message
...
Wow cool stuff. I would love to see pictures before or after.

We love old cool stuff.... our phone has a dial on it our coffee pot is
from the early 50's and we camp in trailers from the 30's through the 50's
which can have cool old appliances in them that often times work just
fine.


Neat! I will take pictures, thanks for the idea!

Nate Nagel" wrote
There is no "seal." You remove the lid, remove the seal/handle/hardware
etc, take it to a body shop, and have them media blast it and refinish it
like a car body.

You *could* brush a coat of POR-15 on it which is one of only a few
products available that will actually seal rust, but then when you try to
wetsand it to prep for paint, you'll discover that it's also hard as nails
and doesn't sand well.

Good luck with your project, I agree with you, 40s/50s stuff is cool and
worth saving. I only wish the previous owners of my house had felt the
same way... (the old kitchen cabinets in the laundry room are much more to
my liking than the ones in the kitchen...)


Nate, I really like this idea. I will look into it. Transporting it to the
body shop might be a problem--it is huge, just the top, even, and heavy. We
are one of the few families in this city without a sport utility vehicle,
though few people here need them. Thanks.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Nate, I really like this idea. I will look into it. Transporting it to the
body shop might be a problem--it is huge, just the top, even, and heavy. We
are one of the few families in this city without a sport utility vehicle,
though few people here need them. Thanks.

--

body shops transport large body panels etc all the time. take a photo
in, if theres oney to be made they may transport it.

can you get the door off?

On Feb 24, 11:50*am, "cshenk" wrote:
"ransley" wrote

Extremely doubtful. Yes newer ones are more efficient but not that
radically so when new units of that size are 700$ and up. She's much
better
New units are up to 75% more efficient, it could cost 20+ a month to
run what she has now or save 400 in 2 years by getting a new unit. Im
sure you never tested them.

No I never 'tested'. *I didnt need to as I have live experience . **I had
one*. *You'll note the only other person to reply who has had one said the
same. *You are acting like the new ones run for free. *They dont. *The
difference in cost per month is a few dollars. *Can be 3 or 4 depending on
how expensive electric is where you are.

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here. *Want
to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? *I *know* what I am
talking about. *She should save the unit as long as possible and not create
more landfill.

I have both, a 1950 freeezer now used as clothes storage and new
stuff. I have used a KAW meter on Both and I am right as www.EnergyStar.Gov
will confirm. Its BS to state " you save little" , if you want to
waste energy go ahead , be a hog, my neighbor keeps 1500w of
incandesants on 24x7, but its not apropriate to do so in this day and
age, and its a waste of $$. So the rich dont give a ****.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:50:43 -0500, "cshenk" wrote:

"ransley" wrote

Extremely doubtful. Yes newer ones are more efficient but not that
radically so when new units of that size are 700$ and up. She's much
better

New units are up to 75% more efficient, it could cost 20+ a month to
run what she has now or save 400 in 2 years by getting a new unit. Im
sure you never tested them.

No I never 'tested'. I didnt need to as I have live experience . *I had
one*. You'll note the only other person to reply who has had one said the
same. You are acting like the new ones run for free. They dont. The
difference in cost per month is a few dollars. Can be 3 or 4 depending on
how expensive electric is where you are.

Perhaps you missed that it's a difference per cost that matters here. Want
to argue with a 12 year electrical bill history showing? I *know* what I am
talking about. She should save the unit as long as possible and not create
more landfill.

What she said. If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. Landfill is a huge issue
now.

cybercat wrote:
Nate Nagel" wrote

There is no "seal." You remove the lid, remove the seal/handle/hardware
etc, take it to a body shop, and have them media blast it and refinish it
like a car body.

You *could* brush a coat of POR-15 on it which is one of only a few
products available that will actually seal rust, but then when you try to
wetsand it to prep for paint, you'll discover that it's also hard as nails
and doesn't sand well.

Good luck with your project, I agree with you, 40s/50s stuff is cool and
worth saving. I only wish the previous owners of my house had felt the
same way... (the old kitchen cabinets in the laundry room are much more to
my liking than the ones in the kitchen...)



Nate, I really like this idea. I will look into it. Transporting it to the
body shop might be a problem--it is huge, just the top, even, and heavy. We
are one of the few families in this city without a sport utility vehicle,
though few people here need them. Thanks.


If you were near me I'd offer my Ugly Truck... sounds like you live in
an area just like mine! Maybe when the gas prices go up some more I can
pick up a used Yukon Denali or something for cheap so I can haul greasy
car parts in leather lined luxury... do they make them in turbodiesel
with a manual transmission?

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

on 2/24/2008 2:18 PM cybercat said the following:
Nate Nagel" wrote

There is no "seal." You remove the lid, remove the seal/handle/hardware
etc, take it to a body shop, and have them media blast it and refinish it
like a car body.

You *could* brush a coat of POR-15 on it which is one of only a few
products available that will actually seal rust, but then when you try to
wetsand it to prep for paint, you'll discover that it's also hard as nails
and doesn't sand well.

Good luck with your project, I agree with you, 40s/50s stuff is cool and
worth saving. I only wish the previous owners of my house had felt the
same way... (the old kitchen cabinets in the laundry room are much more to
my liking than the ones in the kitchen...)



Nate, I really like this idea. I will look into it. Transporting it to the
body shop might be a problem--it is huge, just the top, even, and heavy. We
are one of the few families in this city without a sport utility vehicle,
though few people here need them. Thanks.

Don't you have a friend with a pickup truck? If not, make a new friend
with a PU truck.
I have one. Where are you? :-)


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

the power company wishes everyonew was like the OP

wrote in message
...

Nate, I really like this idea. I will look into it. Transporting it to
the
body shop might be a problem--it is huge, just the top, even, and heavy.
We
are one of the few families in this city without a sport utility vehicle,
though few people here need them. Thanks.

--

body shops transport large body panels etc all the time. take a photo
in, if theres oney to be made they may transport it.

Oh, cool! Thanks. I will call around.

can you get the door off?

Yes, I think I can.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"KLS" wrote in message
What she said. If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"KLS" wrote in message
What she said. If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

"cybercat" wrote

What she said. If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

He's apparently assuming your electric plant is run on fossil fuels I guess?
Dunno, my area is a mix of hydropower and nuclear facilities.

On Feb 25, 2:47�am, "cshenk" wrote:
"cybercat" wrote

What she said. �If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. �Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

He's apparently assuming your electric plant is run on fossil fuels I guess?
Dunno, my area is a mix of hydropower and nuclear facilities.

oh nuclear at least that doesnt pollute spent fuel killer hazardous
for millions of years.........

we are about to see a resurgence of nuke plants, i wonder what
troubles that will cause?

In article , "cybercat"
wrote:

This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas the
new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted three
years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has rusted
through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it? I
want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the rest
of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

To those who are touting energy efficiency of newer appliances, here is
a little refresher: Energy efficiency in refrigerators and freezers is
mostly about insulation. The really old appliances, such as yours, were
actually made with a fair amount of insulation. Then along came the
1970's, an era when American manufacturers decided that cheaper was
better.

So the wall thickness declined, reducing insulation thickness. A very
important ancillary benefit was that the interior volume of a
refrigerator could be increased, without increasing its outside
dimensions. That was a hot selling feature.

Now this decreased insulation thickness had a pesky side effect, besides
making the cooling system run all day long: The outside of the
refrigerators became cold, and condensate started to form. Who wants a
fridge that's wet on the outside?

Engineering to the rescue. Let's put a *heating* coil just inside the
outer shell, to keep it warm and dry. Yep, that worked, but it also
leaked heat into the inside of the fridge, making it run even longer
than it would have with the reduced wall thickness alone. Now, we have a
complete formula for maximum energy inefficiency.

After a short time, as you'll recall, there came a period of energy
awareness, and everyone wanted to save it. Not wanting to appear
indifferent, the refrigerator manufacturers concocted a new "feature." A
little switch that turned the heating coil off. They called that switch
the "energy saver" switch, remember? And the instructions said, if
moisture forms on the outside of the fridge, turn "energy saver" off -
IOW, turn heater on.

Now fast forward, to the new breed of "energy efficient" appliances. The
insulation thickness has been increased again, the heating coil is gone.
A miracle of modern engineering? No, a return to common sense.

People living "off the grid" buy refrigerators that have about a foot of
insulation, and they run for virtually nothing by comparison, because
there's no heat loss.

(My first real job, back in '73, was working on the assembly line of a
major refrigerator manufacturer. I took the outer cabinets fresh from
the spray painting room, and installed the heating coil. Bent it by
hand, and stuck it in there with little wads of clay in the corners. My
friend worked at the tail end of the line, smearing white toothpaste
over the scratches just before crating the beasts.)

On Feb 25, 11:13�am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "cybercat"
wrote:





This might be OT--is there an alt.refurbish.old appliances?

We have a cool old freezer, a GE Hotpoint 20 that came with our house. I
love it! It still works great, and I like old stuff. It matches the 1949
fridge in the same utility room, enamel and chrome, very cool. (Also ...
both have run nonstop for the ten years we have had this house, whereas the
new, plastic and crap side-by-side we bought five years ago lasted three
years.)

Thing is, condensation has made the top of it rust. The former owner
obviously did some repainting or something at some point, but it has rusted
through again.
I have it defrosted and cleaned, opened up and drying out now.

If you were going to refinish the top of this thing, how would you do it? I
want to really seal the rust the best I can, then paint white like the rest
of the thing.

Thank you in advance for any help.

To those who are touting energy efficiency of newer appliances, here is
a little refresher: Energy efficiency in refrigerators and freezers is
mostly about insulation. The really old appliances, such as yours, were
actually made with a fair amount of insulation. Then along came the
1970's, an era when American manufacturers decided that cheaper was
better.

So the wall thickness declined, reducing insulation thickness. A very
important ancillary benefit was that the interior volume of a
refrigerator could be increased, without increasing its outside
dimensions. That was a hot selling feature.

Now this decreased insulation thickness had a pesky side effect, besides
making the cooling system run all day long: The outside of the
refrigerators became cold, and condensate started to form. Who wants a
fridge that's wet on the outside?

Engineering to the rescue. Let's put a *heating* coil just inside the
outer shell, to keep it warm and dry. Yep, that worked, but it also
leaked heat into the inside of the fridge, making it run even longer
than it would have with the reduced wall thickness alone. Now, we have a
complete formula for maximum energy inefficiency.

After a short time, as you'll recall, there came a period of energy
awareness, and everyone wanted to save it. Not wanting to appear
indifferent, the refrigerator manufacturers concocted a new "feature." A
little switch that turned the heating coil off. They called that switch
the "energy saver" switch, remember? And the instructions said, if
moisture forms on the outside of the fridge, turn "energy saver" off -
IOW, turn heater on.

Now fast forward, to the new breed of "energy efficient" appliances. The
insulation thickness has been increased again, the heating coil is gone.
A miracle of modern engineering? No, a return to common sense.

People living "off the grid" buy refrigerators that have about a foot of
insulation, and they run for virtually nothing by comparison, because
there's no heat loss.

(My first real job, back in '73, was working on the assembly line of a
major refrigerator manufacturer. I took the outer cabinets fresh from
the spray painting room, and installed the heating coil. Bent it by
hand, and stuck it in there with little wads of clay in the corners. My
friend worked at the tail end of the line, smearing white toothpaste
over the scratches just before crating the beasts.)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

new appliances also used closed cell foam insulation which is way
better than fiberglass and more efficent compressors etc,.

its not just a matter of a heter or insulation thickness

wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 2:47�am, "cshenk" wrote:
"cybercat" wrote

What she said. �If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. �Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

He's apparently assuming your electric plant is run on fossil fuels I
guess?
Dunno, my area is a mix of hydropower and nuclear facilities.

oh nuclear at least that doesnt pollute spent fuel killer hazardous
for millions of years.........

we are about to see a resurgence of nuke plants, i wonder what
troubles that will cause?

About the same amount of trouble they have EVER caused in this country:
ZILCH

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
People living "off the grid" buy refrigerators that have about a foot of
insulation, and they run for virtually nothing by comparison, because
there's no heat loss.

Correction. There is little heat loss (or gain). Impossible to have no heat
loss as long as there is a temperature differential.

"cybercat" wrote in message

Fossil fuels?

Oil, natural gas, coal.

No matter what your local power company uses, they swap power and at some
point your electricity is generated by other fuels. The poster said it was
good to keep things rather than load up a landfill. While that is generally
a good idea, taking up space in a landfill is not so bad if you save using
up non-renewable energy for many more years. If you are a global warming
advocate, you are causing more greenhouse gasses also.

The question is one of balance between living it a cold dark cave or having
every luxury device ever made.

On Feb 25, 9:04�pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"cybercat" wrote in message

Fossil fuels?

Oil, natural gas, coal.

No matter what your local power company uses, they swap power and at some
point your electricity is generated by other fuels. �The poster said it was
good to keep things rather than load up a landfill. �While that is generally
a good idea, taking up space in a landfill is not so bad if you save using
up non-renewable energy for many more years. �If you are a global warming
advocate, you are causing more greenhouse gasses also.

The �question is one of balance between living it a cold dark cave or having
every luxury device ever made.

the old unit can be recycled, the metals sent to china so they can
sell us more stuff......

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
A good refrigeration guy may be able to replace the compressor.


It works great! Has been with no repairs for ten years for sure, likely for
more like 40+



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

on 2/25/2008 7:30 PM Dr. Hardcrab said the following:

wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 2:47�am, "cshenk" wrote:
"cybercat" wrote

What she said. �If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. �Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

He's apparently assuming your electric plant is run on fossil fuels I
guess?
Dunno, my area is a mix of hydropower and nuclear facilities.

oh nuclear at least that doesnt pollute spent fuel killer hazardous
for millions of years.........

we are about to see a resurgence of nuke plants, i wonder what
troubles that will cause?

About the same amount of trouble they have EVER caused in this
country: ZILCH

I live about 25 miles from the Indian Point Nuclear facility in
Buchanan NY. It has been there for 30 years. Every time a light bulb
burns out there, the wackos come out with their "See, we told you it was
dangerous" signs.
I lose no sleep being within fallout distance from it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_...ar_power_plant

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Feb 25, 9:40Â*pm, willshak wrote:
on 2/25/2008 7:30 PM Dr. Hardcrab said the following:







wrote in message
...
On Feb 25, 2:47�am, "cshenk" wrote:
"cybercat" wrote

What she said. �If the OP can keep this old beauty going for a while
longer at not much more $$, he/she should. �Landfill is a huge issue
now.

So landfills are more important that using up fossil fuels?

Fossil fuels?

He's apparently assuming your electric plant is run on fossil fuels I
guess?
Dunno, my area is a mix of hydropower and nuclear facilities.

oh nuclear at least that doesnt pollute spent fuel killer hazardous
for millions of years.........

we are about to see a resurgence of nuke plants, i wonder what
troubles that will cause?

About the same amount of trouble they have EVER caused in this
country: ZILCH

I live about Â*25 miles from the Indian Point Nuclear facility in
Buchanan NY. It has been there for 30 years. Every time a light bulb
burns out there, the wackos come out with their "See, we told you it was
dangerous" signs.
I lose no sleep being within fallout distance from it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_...ar_power_plant

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

people who lived around chernobyl werent concerned either.......

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/ki.../chapter1.html

is a fascinating look at the effected area of russia, with tons of
photos

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
People living "off the grid" buy refrigerators that have about a foot of
insulation, and they run for virtually nothing by comparison, because
there's no heat loss.

Correction. There is little heat loss (or gain). Impossible to have no heat
loss as long as there is a temperature differential.

True. Of course when I said "no" I meant "a negligible amount."