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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

On Feb 4, 8:42�pm, HerHusband wrote:
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


pex tubing heated by a gas or propane tankless. electric will cost far
more.

remember all you need is a few degrees above freezing to melt snow and
ice.

it will be costly up front, but great at home resale time.

i have a old friend who had a half mile long driveway up a big hill.

the parents sold the home the new owners went with heated asphalt, and
thinks its great.

imagine flip one switch and no shoveling
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

On Feb 4, 8:42�pm, HerHusband wrote:
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


also consider a plow on a atv......... or old truck.

sit in warm and dry while you clear snow,
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

HerHusband wrote:

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


Get a 4WD or AWD vehicle with decent ground clearance and be done with
it. Just drive back and forth a couple times every 6" of snow fall so it
doesn't get too deep between packings. Vehicle doesn't have to be a big
truck or SUV either, most any Subaru also fits the specs and works fine.
Worst you have to do is toss a little sand on the tracks now and then.
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

On Feb 4, 7:42*pm, HerHusband wrote:
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


The best an only acceptable solution from my point of vew is to MOVE
SOUTH and leave the snow behind.



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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

HerHusband wrote:

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.


You leave out the important part. how much snow do you get at a time?
6-8inches? 2 feet? an inch at a time?

-snip-

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already


Read the reviews of the 1800 on Amazon- And search google for my
comments on them over the years. [I'm a *big* fan- and though i have
a 7hp, 2 stage I still find the little toro quicker/easier for a
4-5inch snowfall.]


have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.


Mine hangs on a peg in the garage- the cord takes up more space.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.

-snip-

Cost of operation on that would vary quite a bit from, say Tennessee,
to say, Maine. In upstate NY I've only seen a few in my lifetime-
but boy they sure look pretty in a snowstorm.g

Jim
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

pex tubing heated by a gas or propane tankless. electric will cost far
more.
remember all you need is a few degrees above freezing to melt snow and
ice.


The problem with hydronic is all the moving parts (heater, pump, etc.) and
dealing with changing the anti-freeze semi-annually.

Consider we may only get a few snow storms each year and then nothing for a
few years, electric seems like a "less hassle" option. Out of sight until
needed, no maintenance.

Still, any snow melting option has got to cost more than even the best snow
blower.

Anthony
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

also consider a plow on a atv......... or old truck.

Yep, thought of those, but I don't own an ATV or a truck. So, it would be a
bigger outlay.

Not to mention, I don't really have anywhere to "push" the snow to.

Anthony


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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?


"HerHusband" wrote in message

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger,


I know exactly what you mean.


So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.


You can buy a single stage model for $400 at Wal Mart. About 10 years ago,
when my MIL moved in with us she bought me one and it still works great.
Every time I use it, I'm still grateful for it and wich I could thank her.

Single stage is good for snowfall up to about 10". If it is very heavy and
wet you have to take smaller ites, but the light anf fluffy stuff goes very
easy.




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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:42:09 -0600, HerHusband
wrote:

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around.... [snip] ...


I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs....

Anthony


Hi Anthony,

According to this firm, budget roughly 50-watts per square foot for an
electric snow melting system, so just that 20 x 30 ft. area in front
of your garage would require some 30,000-watts of electric heat (130
amps @ 230-volts). In addition to the cost of those pavers, you might
want to price out a new 400-amp service .... (or two).

Source: http://www.allwarm.com/

At $0.10 per kWh, a 30 kW system operated an average of three hours
per day would cost you about $275.00 a month. And if you plan to snow
melt your entire driveway, your costs would be in the range of a
$1,000.00 a month.

Cheers,
Paul


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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

The option i find best is to just drive over the **** and not be so anal
about getting it off. Unless you're driving a go-cart, you should be able
to keep it under control just driving on it twice a day.

s


"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony



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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

BobR wrote:

The best an only acceptable solution from my point
of vew is to MOVE SOUTH and leave the snow behind.


When damnyankee snow does come to the Pomised lLnd o
of North Carolina, it is gone in a day or two. Too
bad the damnyankees don't go with it.

However, rather than agreeing that you emigrate to
the better side of life, I suggest you replace you
driveway with concrete or asphalt and buy the snow
blower.

Dick

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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

On Feb 4, 6:49*pm, HerHusband wrote:
pex tubing heated by a gas or propane tankless. electric will cost far
more.
remember all you need is a few degrees above freezing to melt snow and
ice.


The problem with hydronic is all the moving parts (heater, pump, etc.) and
dealing with changing the anti-freeze semi-annually.

Consider we may only get a few snow storms each year and then nothing for a
few years, electric seems like a "less hassle" option. Out of sight until
needed, no maintenance.

Still, any snow melting option has got to cost more than even the best snow
blower.

Anthony


Cost will definitely be high. Not just the installation, running it
also even with low electric rates. It takes a lot of BTU to turn a
pound of snow into water and it is not a fast project.

My condition is about the same as yours. Drive 100' by 30' wide. Most
years I only need to clear the drive a couple times and then it isn't
very deep but comes the occasional winter and there is no getting out
without clearing it. This is one such. Last snow was last Thursday,
area is still digging out.

I went with a snowblower. My old one died in this storm and I bought
(internet) a Poulan $1500 one for $900 via Amazon (still on AFAIK). It
has electric start so there shouldn't be any problem with struggling
to start it.

Harry K
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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony



Get a gas powered snow blower with electric start. Get a good one, like
Aryens, from a power equipment shop that does service, even though you won't
need much with an Aryens. Be happy. You can find space for it somehow.


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HerHusband wrote:
(snip)

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


Some people find that the cheapest option (other than shoveling) is to
hire it done.


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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

You leave out the important part.
how much snow do you get at a time?


It really varies. The last several years, we haven't had more than a few
light dustings, except maybe for one storm leaving 4" or so.

Then again, we go through periods like this year where we've had snow on
the ground for two months, with at least two storms piling up to more than
14" each.

That's why I hate to invest in a huge snow snowblower or some other
expensive solution. It just may not get used that often, and maintaining it
might be more work than shoveling snow. But when we need it, we really need
it.

Read the reviews of the 1800 on Amazon- And search google for my
comments on them over the years. [I'm a *big* fan- and though i have
a 7hp, 2 stage I still find the little toro quicker/easier for a
4-5inch snowfall.]


Thanks for the info. I appreciate the first hand experience. It does sound
like it would be a good match for the majority of our snowfalls.

Our gravel drive concerns me more than anything. Can these be adjusted
somehow to stay an inch or so above the ground?

Anthony
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"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
You leave out the important part.
how much snow do you get at a time?


It really varies. The last several years, we haven't had more than a few
light dustings, except maybe for one storm leaving 4" or so.

Then again, we go through periods like this year where we've had snow on
the ground for two months, with at least two storms piling up to more than
14" each.

That's why I hate to invest in a huge snow snowblower or some other
expensive solution. It just may not get used that often, and maintaining
it
might be more work than shoveling snow. But when we need it, we really
need
it.

Read the reviews of the 1800 on Amazon- And search google for my
comments on them over the years. [I'm a *big* fan- and though i have
a 7hp, 2 stage I still find the little toro quicker/easier for a
4-5inch snowfall.]


Thanks for the info. I appreciate the first hand experience. It does sound
like it would be a good match for the majority of our snowfalls.

Our gravel drive concerns me more than anything. Can these be adjusted
somehow to stay an inch or so above the ground?

Anthony



Yes. A friend of mine has a gravel driveway, and has her snow blower
adjusted so that it never gets involved with the rocks at all. Hers in an
Aryens. Check whatever model you buy to make sure it can be adjusted enough.


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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?


"TD" wrote in message
...
HerHusband wrote in
:

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county
road. The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of
our own driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older
I realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run
to town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for
"an old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow
passes won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like
the thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a
few really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So,
a gas snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years,
just taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in
the cold doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700
and up price tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like
the Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I
already have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a
couple of electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't
work so well on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300
price tag is easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space
in the shed when we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to
install pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this
summer anyway, so it seems like a good time to install a melt system
if I'm going to. But again, the costs for materials seems like it
would be rather expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less
maintenance (and we have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both
systems seem to need some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt,
pavers), which would further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


My gas snow thrower has an electric start. In the small event of loss of
power it has a pull start.


Gravel in a gas thrower is a million laughs. 4th word in the post.

Steve


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Default Removing Snow From Driveway - Best Long Term Solution?

With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


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TD wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:


With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


You should lie down in the guy's driveway and have a
bulldozer run over you about 666 times.


Wrong again. Gravel driveways are suboptimal especially
when it snows.

You get to lie there 287 times. I'd sentence you to 288
times - but that would be too gross.

Dick


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Anthony,

Tell us where you live.

Dick
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On Feb 4, 8:42*pm, HerHusband wrote:
We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county road.
The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of our own
driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like the
thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a few
really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So, a gas
snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years, just
taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in the cold
doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700 and up price
tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like the
Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I already
have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a couple of
electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't work so well
on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300 price tag is
easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space in the shed when
we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to install
pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this summer anyway,
so it seems like a good time to install a melt system if I'm going to.
But again, the costs for materials seems like it would be rather
expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less maintenance (and we
have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both systems seem to need
some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt, pavers), which would
further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


Hi,

I have a similar situation and I am also looking for a different/
cheaper solution. We live in Westchester County, New York. Over the
last few years the winters have been quite mild and snow has not been
that much of an issue. Our drive way is about 150 feet with a car park
bit near the garage doors. Our driverway ends onto a private road
which we share with neighbours. We all share the plow costs of this
road, but my driverway is my problem. Each time it snows it costs me
$US 75 for the driverway, car park bit and my share of the road.
Fortunately winters have been not too bad or it would get VERY
expensive.

We have an ashphalt driveway not a gravel one. Hence I think this
option may not suit your needs. I think the truck plow when it hits
your gravel driveway it will tear up the driverway. One of our
neigbours has an electric heated driverway. For mild snow and ice it
works O.K. For the really heavy snow falls I see him out there with a
snow blower because the system cannot keep up. It is somewhat
temperature and snowfall rate dependent.

The downside to having a plough guy come is that you only want him to
come AFTER the snow has finished. Hence you have a time slot when you
want to get your car out BUT your driverway is socked in. This is
especially difficult for us because we live on a hill and getting up
it to go home in snow is not possible with normal tires. So my
solution was to get snow tires. I have a Honda Civic (Front wheel
driver only) and Bridgestone Blizzack snow tires. These tires really
do the trick and I can make it up a 1:14 gradient, max building code
gradient, in 6 inches of snow. All our neighbours have AWD cars of one
sort or another. However on a really bad day, even one of those SUV
AWD got stuck, but they have the normal all-season car tires on them.

For gravel driveways alot of people like the Honda snow blowers with
tracks.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/snotra.asp

The main advantage is that the scoop height can be controlled
accurately. Many snowblowers simply allow the scoop to scrape the
ground. This is bad for gravel driverways because your snow blower
will scoop up all the gravel as well. In the Honda's case the weight
of the snow blower rests on the tracks, hence the scoop can be held
just above the gravel. From net experience people say the electric
start is really not worth getting because it is so easy to start
anyway, and you need a nearby plug to power the starter. I was really
considering getting one of these to lower the snow clearance costs.

Maintenance wise I find the Honda products to be pretty good. I use
Stabil in the fuel of my Honda lawn mower, and it always starts, no
problems.

I think the only downside on the Honda snow blower is the cost, these
puppies are listed at about $US 2,400.

Let us know what your final solution is and maybe I will do the same.

Warmest regards, Mike.

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On Feb 4, 9:49*pm, HerHusband wrote:
pex tubing heated by a gas or propane tankless. electric will cost far
more.
remember all you need is a few degrees above freezing to melt snow and
ice.


The problem with hydronic is all the moving parts (heater, pump, etc.) and
dealing with changing the anti-freeze semi-annually.


Why would you have to change the antifreeze twice a year?



Consider we may only get a few snow storms each year and then nothing for a
few years, electric seems like a "less hassle" option. Out of sight until
needed, no maintenance.

Still, any snow melting option has got to cost more than even the best snow
blower.

Anthony


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HerHusband wrote:
also consider a plow on a atv......... or old truck.


Yep, thought of those, but I don't own an ATV or a truck. So, it would be a
bigger outlay.



So instead of investing in and having to maintain equipment hire someone
to do it. Lots of folks do it especially in areas such as you describe
where you only deal with a few storms/year.



Not to mention, I don't really have anywhere to "push" the snow to.

Anthony


Part of the equation for snow country is to have an "anywhere". Maybe
you can tinker with the landscaping. It doesn't take much.
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Pete C. wrote:


Get a 4WD or AWD vehicle with decent ground clearance and be done with
it. Just drive back and forth a couple times every 6" of snow fall so it
doesn't get too deep between packings. Vehicle doesn't have to be a big
truck or SUV either, most any Subaru also fits the specs and works fine.
Worst you have to do is toss a little sand on the tracks now and then.


That wouldn't work where I am located because it would create layers of
jagged ice that would have to be dealth with for months.


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To the discussion, I would add, living in coastal NJ, I haven't had
much need for snow removal either the last decade. However, I did
buy a Sears gas blower with electric start. The electric start takes
care of the issue of having to pull start it when it's cold. It
starts right up. And maintenance has been minimal. I just run it
dry of gas at the end of the season. And change the oil every year or
two. Some years I haven't used it at all, like this year so far, but
it's a great convenience when I do need it.
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George wrote:

Pete C. wrote:


Get a 4WD or AWD vehicle with decent ground clearance and be done with
it. Just drive back and forth a couple times every 6" of snow fall so it
doesn't get too deep between packings. Vehicle doesn't have to be a big
truck or SUV either, most any Subaru also fits the specs and works fine.
Worst you have to do is toss a little sand on the tracks now and then.


That wouldn't work where I am located because it would create layers of
jagged ice that would have to be dealth with for months.


What's your point? The vehicles mentioned handle the ice pack just fine.
Indeed, on the gravel driveway the OP indicated the ice pack will have
plenty of texture for traction. The only time it starts to get slippery
is towards spring when you get some melting that starts to level the
surface, at which point you sprinkle some sand on it. If you need to
walk the driveway, say to the mailbox, you walk in the unpacked areas to
the side of or between the tire tracks. Decades of experience in the
northeast prove this works just fine, the only thing you need to clear
is what the town plow piles at the front of the driveway.
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SteveB wrote:

"TD" wrote in message
...
HerHusband wrote in
:

We have a gravel driveway, roughly 150 feet long. It's about 12 feet
wide, except for a 20x30 area in front of the garage where we park and
turn around. It has a few curves, and slopes up towards the county
road. The county keeps the main road plowed, but just getting out of
our own driveway can be a real adventure.

I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older
I realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run
to town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for
"an old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow
passes won't be an option for many years to come.

The first option seems to be a snow thrower, but I don't really like
the thought of one more piece of equipment to maintain. We can have a
few really mild winters, followed by one or two really wild ones. So,
a gas snow blower could potentially sit unused for a couple of years,
just taking up lots of space. Fighting to start a small gas engine in
the cold doesn't sound much better than shoveling snow. And the $700
and up price tag seems high considering how often we might use it.

Considering the erratic nature of our storms, an electric model like
the Toro 1800 seems nice. No gas, no oil, no routine maintenance. I
already have 100' long heavy duty 12 gauge extension cords, and a
couple of electrical outlets along the drive. But, I hear they don't
work so well on gravel drives, or with wet deep snow. Still, the $300
price tag is easier to manage, and it wouldn't take up so much space
in the shed when we weren't using it.

I'm also considering some sort of snow melt system. I'm hoping to
install pavers and a drainage system in front of the garage this
summer anyway, so it seems like a good time to install a melt system
if I'm going to. But again, the costs for materials seems like it
would be rather expensive. Electric seems like it would be a lot less
maintenance (and we have low electric rates) than hydronic. But, both
systems seem to need some type of paved covering (concrete, asphalt,
pavers), which would further increase costs.

So, I'd like to hear how others deal with snow that falls erratically,
but can be a big problem when it does?

Thanks,

Anthony


My gas snow thrower has an electric start. In the small event of loss of
power it has a pull start.


Gravel in a gas thrower is a million laughs. 4th word in the post.

Steve


Actually, a snow blower will work just fine on a gravel driveway if you
know what you're doing. You have to get the first inch of snow packed
solid to cover the gravel and then start using the snow blower, ensuring
that the height adjusting skids are set properly.
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"S. Barker" wrote:

The option i find best is to just drive over the **** and not be so anal
about getting it off. Unless you're driving a go-cart, you should be able
to keep it under control just driving on it twice a day.


Bingo!
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SteveB wrote:

With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


Absolutely. A snow blower works just fine on a gravel driveway if you
know what you are doing, and of course if you get a reasonably capable
vehicle with 4WD or AWD you don't need to do anything but drive. As I
noted already, you don't have to get a big truck or SUV, most any Subaru
vehicle and others with AWD and some ground clearance do just fine. The
Viper and the Prius will need to stay in the garage until spring of
course.


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Dick Adams wrote:

TD wrote:
"SteveB" wrote:


With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


You should lie down in the guy's driveway and have a
bulldozer run over you about 666 times.


Wrong again. Gravel driveways are suboptimal especially
when it snows.

You get to lie there 287 times. I'd sentence you to 288
times - but that would be too gross.

Dick


Gravel driveways are just fine if you have a clue and maintain them
properly, and just for reference, a paved driveway requires maintenance
as well.
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this is like saying must go to moon, on the cheap.

the two are mutually exclusive.

paying for plowing is likely the cheapest since it requires no up
front purchase
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Pete C. wrote:
George wrote:
Pete C. wrote:

Get a 4WD or AWD vehicle with decent ground clearance and be done with
it. Just drive back and forth a couple times every 6" of snow fall so it
doesn't get too deep between packings. Vehicle doesn't have to be a big
truck or SUV either, most any Subaru also fits the specs and works fine.
Worst you have to do is toss a little sand on the tracks now and then.

That wouldn't work where I am located because it would create layers of
jagged ice that would have to be dealth with for months.


What's your point?


Maybe the 4wd vehicles can handle it but people need to be able to get
from the vehicles to the house and vice versa. It can be a real
challenge to do that once you have lots of icy built up ruts especially
as you get older as the OP described was part of his situation. Plus it
is nice to have some consideration for visitors including those who are
driving cars.

The vehicles mentioned handle the ice pack just fine.
Indeed, on the gravel driveway the OP indicated the ice pack will have
plenty of texture for traction. The only time it starts to get slippery
is towards spring when you get some melting that starts to level the
surface, at which point you sprinkle some sand on it. If you need to
walk the driveway, say to the mailbox, you walk in the unpacked areas to
the side of or between the tire tracks. Decades of experience in the
northeast prove this works just fine, the only thing you need to clear
is what the town plow piles at the front of the driveway.


I have lived in the northeast all of my life in many different places
and I have to say it is pretty unusual for people not to clear their
driveways as you describe.
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SteveB wrote:
With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


Sure, you have it plowed and then when spring comes you redistribute the
little pile of stone where the plow stopped. It is just normal
maintenance no different than cutting the grass or trimming the trees.
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George wrote:

SteveB wrote:
With a GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, is there ANY practical method?


Sure, you have it plowed and then when spring comes you redistribute the
little pile of stone where the plow stopped. It is just normal
maintenance no different than cutting the grass or trimming the trees.


It's also an excuse to rent a Bobcat for the weekend to redistribute the
gravel as well as tackle other landscaping rehab, and of course, just
have fun with it.


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HerHusband wrote:
I've traditionally gone out and shoveled the driveway clear when we've
had snow storms. It wasn't bad when I was younger, but as I get older I
realize I won't always be able to shovel snow for hours just to run to
town. So, I'm investigating other solutions that will be easier for "an
old guy" to manage. Unfortunately, staying home till the snow passes
won't be an option for many years to come.


Don't rule out the snowblower. With some simple once-a-year
maintenance, you can sock it away and it will be ready when you need
it.

Modern snowblowers have electronic ignition, so there are no points to
rust up on you. Even the lowest-end models have electric start now.
Plug in an extension cord and push the button. Mine starts with 1
pull, though, and it's a cheap "Yard Machines" model.

Put about double the normal dose of StaBil in the gas and run the
engine for about 5 minutes. Then drain the gas from the tank until
dry, and restart the engine. After it quits, pull it a few more times
to make sure the carb is dry. Replace the fuel line on the dry tank.
Park the snowblower.

The point of the StaBil is so that if there is any residual gas, it
won't turn to varnish on you before it evaporates.

Next time you go to get it out, it will be ready to go and will start
within 2-3 pulls. You should get the machine out, gas it up, and start
it around Thanksgiving. Drain it and put it away around St. Patrick's
day.
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Tell us where you live.

SW Washington state. Generally a mild climate, but we're at roughly 1500'
elevation so we get more snow than most people around here. For example, we
had 14" of snow Saturday, but just 2-3 miles down the hill they had
nothing. Location is everything.

Of course, the folks who live even farther up the hill from us probably
laugh at our snow totals.

Anthony
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if you get a reasonably capable vehicle with 4WD or AWD
you don't need to do anything but drive.


That's fine if you only have one car coming and going each day, but my wife
and I leave at different times and neither of us wants to commute in a
truck. Then there's the licensing, insurance, and maintenance of a truck
unless you drive one anyway.

Also, we can have a foot of snow here, and completely bare pavement just a
mile or two down the road. It doesn't make sense to drive a big gas guzzler
truck when the majority of our commute is completely clear.

Even snow tires would be hard to justify, both for cost and the hassles of
swapping them with regular tires every year. We only get a few snowstorms
each year, and the last several years we've had practically nothing. We
would just end up wearing out the snow tires before we ever really needed
them.

Anthony
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George wrote:

Maybe the 4wd vehicles can handle it but people need to be able to get
from the vehicles to the house and vice versa. It can be a real
challenge to do that once you have lots of icy built up ruts
especially as you get older as the OP described was part of his
situation. Plus it is nice to have some consideration for visitors
including those who are driving cars.


Do you recall the commercial, shot at ground level, of a VW bug rolling
slowly through the snow, stopping, and these feet enclosed with boots step
out? The camera follows the boots to a big garage where you hear the sound
of something like a goddamn locomotive start up, and the world's largest
snow blower comes rumbling out of the garage, ready to move mountains of
snow off the Donner Pass.

Then a voice comes on and says: "Did you ever wonder how the guy who drives
the snow plow GETS to the snow plow?"




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On Feb 5, 7:08*am, HerHusband wrote:
Tell us where you live.


SW Washington state. Generally a mild climate, but we're at roughly 1500'
elevation so we get more snow than most people around here. For example, we
had 14" of snow Saturday, but just 2-3 miles down the hill they had
nothing. Location is everything.

Of course, the folks who live even farther up the hill from us probably
laugh at our snow totals.

Anthony


Just about the same here in SE WA. Can figure on several snow days
eveery year that will usually be gone in a week. Rare to get more
than 4-6" and really doesn't need clearing except to keep the drive
clear of ruts. I will be out there anytime 3" or more falls though as
I live in the county and the state is so kind they donate all the snow
off of 20' of state highway to my drive. It is keep up with it or
wind up with an impassable berm.

This year is an anomaly. Don't know about over there but here we have
the 4th snowiest year on record so far and looks to be closing in fast
on #3

When shopping for a 'blower and looking at significant falls you need
a two-stage one. Don't go for a tracked model unless you can control
each track individually - they can be a real beast to move around and
even steer if there is no control. Also go for a 6 or 7 hp model
minimum. Unfortunately, I would prefer the higher HP models to
restrict the width a bit. My new one is 10hp but 30" wide. It would
be much better at around 24-26".

Harry K
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