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Default Cracks in basement block walls

Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. A bit of a long story but suffice it
to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were burnt out
when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). When we
were finally released from the first house we had about a week to choose a
place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and move. We
knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't find anything
that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the block
foundation. Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks with a
specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and they
looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's talking
about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. I felt the dark clouds forming
over my head at that moment. The epoxy supplier gave us a name of a
contractor and he came to the house. He told us not to move in (which was
to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. Every wall (that we
can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by boxes shoved into
closets that were built over the cracked walls). In hind site, we should
have walked away from the place after the final walkthrough but we were lead
to believe that the walkthrough was just a formality and that we were pretty
much locked in to the purchase at that point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and no
material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. I thought I
did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting screwed, which
I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about to
resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can we
do? We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks in
foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties), but I
find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the price
of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). I am an educator
and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this whole
experience affected me deeply. It's not a bad place (other than the
problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church, and
pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. But still, I want out in a year or
so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.


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Default Cracks in basement block walls

Mac wrote:
Any advice?


Do something more useful than obsessing: talk to an attorney
who has experience in real estate. Is there a Legal Aid office
in your city?

Una

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Default Cracks in basement block walls

Mac wrote:

Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in
the basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there
are), and no material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking
water (I had to completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it
usable.


In which case you have recourse against the seller. Go see a lawyer.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
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On Jan 27, 12:20*am, "Mac" wrote:
Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. *A bit of a long story but suffice it
to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were burnt out
when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. *We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). *When we
were finally released from the first house we had about a week to choose a
place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and move. *We
knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't find anything
that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the block
foundation. *Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks with a
specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and they
looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's talking
about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. *I felt the dark clouds forming
over my head at that moment. *The epoxy supplier gave us a name of a
contractor and he came to the house. *He told us not to move in (which was
to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. *Every wall (that we
can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by boxes shoved into
closets that were built over the cracked walls). *In hind site, we should
have walked away from the place after the final walkthrough but we were lead
to believe that the walkthrough was just a formality and that we were pretty
much locked in to the purchase at that point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and no
material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. *I thought I
did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting screwed, which
I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about to
resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can we
do? *We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks in
foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties), but I
find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the price
of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). *I am an educator
and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this whole
experience affected me deeply. *It's not a bad place (other than the
problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church, and
pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. *But still, I want out in a year or
so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? *There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? *Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? *I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.


S you ripped out closets on every wall, why, to find cracks you did
not know were there, only a troll does that. Epoxy is used by pros,
mortar mix is also used, the cracks may have occured within the first
year, you dont know. Document it, fix it and move on maybe it will be
fine.
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Default Cracks in basement block walls

On Jan 27, 7:04*am, ransley wrote:
On Jan 27, 12:20*am, "Mac" wrote:





Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. *A bit of a long story but suffice it
to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were burnt out
when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. *We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). *When we
were finally released from the first house we had about a week to choose a
place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and move. *We
knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't find anything
that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the block
foundation. *Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks with a
specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and they
looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's talking
about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. *I felt the dark clouds forming
over my head at that moment. *The epoxy supplier gave us a name of a
contractor and he came to the house. *He told us not to move in (which was
to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. *Every wall (that we
can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by boxes shoved into
closets that were built over the cracked walls). *In hind site, we should
have walked away from the place after the final walkthrough but we were lead
to believe that the walkthrough was just a formality and that we were pretty
much locked in to the purchase at that point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and no
material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. *I thought I
did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting screwed, which
I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about to
resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can we
do? *We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks in
foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties), but I
find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the price
of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). *I am an educator
and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this whole
experience affected me deeply. *It's not a bad place (other than the
problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church, and
pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. *But still, I want out in a year or
so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? *There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? *Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? *I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.


S you ripped out closets on every wall, why, to find cracks you did
not know were there, only a troll does that. Epoxy is used by pros,
mortar mix is also used, the cracks may have occured within the first
year, you dont know. Document it, fix it and move on maybe it will be
fine.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



I agree with Joseph. It's totally unclear if there is any foundation
problem that needs fixing. Almost every house has some foundation
cracks, which is perfectly normal. The question is how big are the
cracks, how long they run and are they stable or getting worse? In
many older houses, you'll find small cracks that have been there for
decades and aren't getting any worse.

You should have had a home inspection before you bought the house. In
most cases, the inspection winds up free and actually nets you money,
because it uncovers enough defects that you can negotiate off of the
purchase price. Now you should get a competent inspector in to check
out the whole house. Based on what the report says, you can decide
what next steps to take. If there are enough material defects that
were not reflected in the disclosure statement, you could take the
seller to court. Small claims may be appropriate, as it doesn't cost
you anything, so if the potential recovery is modest, that would
probably be the best route.

As far as selling the house and going back to renting, that I don't
understand. The market is in the tank right now. You have a house
that sounds like it's OK except for a couple of potential problems
which you don't know the extent of and would have to disclose to
buyers anyway.

In the future, don't listen to the real estate agent, who is working
for the seller, about much of anything. Certainly not about
foundation questions. And make sure you have an inspection done
BEFORE buying.


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Settlement cracks may be normal. If in basement and walls bulging
inward, then you have a problem. You should have had a professional
home inspection before buying but now might be a good time for you to
get one.
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We didn't rip out the closets. They were built over the block wall with the
wall as the rear of the closet. When we looked at the house, the closets
were jammed full of boxes. The home inspectors in our area do not move
boxes and look behind things.


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I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4". This one was hidden by a tall freezer so the
inspector did not see it and "our" real estate agent told me to use the
epoxy. Many of the cracks have been poorly patched, (patches falling out)
and filled with [filler rod?] so they did have knowledge of them.
The basement bath flooded after about an inch of rain. The walls are
finished so I'm not sure what's behind them. I asked the sellers (through
our agents) if the basement stayed dry since we needed it for office space.
The answer was that they had some trouble years ago but that it was fixed.
The market in our area is actually pretty good. We have several booming
industries which keep thiings going. Some houses have been sitting but they
are over priced. I didn't care for the house when we bought it but it was
the only one we could afford in a safe neighborhood. Now I just want to fix
it and get out.
I don't trust home inspectors, is there anybody else I could bring in that
wouldn't have an agenda?
Lastly, do disclosure forms mean anything?
Thanks for all the replies.


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In article eV1nj.1251$ZO5.141@trnddc03, Mac says...

I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4". This one was hidden by a tall freezer so the
inspector did not see it and "our" real estate agent told me to use the
epoxy. Many of the cracks have been poorly patched, (patches falling out)
and filled with [filler rod?] so they did have knowledge of them.
The basement bath flooded after about an inch of rain. The walls are
finished so I'm not sure what's behind them. I asked the sellers (through
our agents) if the basement stayed dry since we needed it for office space.
The answer was that they had some trouble years ago but that it was fixed.
The market in our area is actually pretty good. We have several booming
industries which keep thiings going. Some houses have been sitting but they
are over priced. I didn't care for the house when we bought it but it was
the only one we could afford in a safe neighborhood. Now I just want to fix
it and get out.
I don't trust home inspectors, is there anybody else I could bring in that
wouldn't have an agenda?
Lastly, do disclosure forms mean anything?
Thanks for all the replies.



OK, I dealt with a foundation problem due to frost heaving due to an inadequate
footer. I know it's scary, but don't panic. Firstly, get an engineer in to
look at the foundation. A couple of things you've just said do sound concerning
- the long wide horizontal crack, the crack through the block, and the repairs
falling out. Which might signal a lot of hydrostatic pressure and that there's
still movement.

But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like - you can
pursue this through a lawyer. And the house isn't going to fall down tomorrow.
It's still a house for the living in while you decide what to do, cracks or no
cracks.

You're in, the deal's done; you'll need to either disclose and lose on the sale
if you move, or you fix the problem. Don't make any decisions about this until
you have explored the avenues and know the facts. After all, once you address
the problem, it's addressed, and the attributes that the house has that you
bought it for - its location, etc., will still be there. So I don't think it
makes sense to just sell out quickly.

Banty

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On Jan 27, 11:01*am, "Mac" wrote:
I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. *The report stated "above average settling".. *I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.



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We are landlords and manage a house similar in age to what you have,
with very similar issues. The owners successfully sued the seller of
the property and are waiting for the Spring thaw to get started on the
work, which is going to cost about $15K. The court case took about 18
months. Here are some thoughts:

1) The house has been settling for a long time. You could probably
wait several years to fix the basement, maybe much longer. You aren't
going to come home one day to find that the basement has collapsed.

2) It looks like you might have recourse against the seller, the home
inspector, and the Realtor. Sounds like the seller has a pile of
money from the sale, so they might be the best bet.

3) The ammunition that you need for the lawsuit is costs and scope of
work from several reputable sources. In my area, there are 2 or 3
very reputable basement specialists, who do not actually do the work,
just inspections. These are the kind of people who spend their days
looking at problem basements and testifying in court. How do you find
one in your area? I don't know. Check the yellow pages, ask around,
maybe post your location in a follow up so we know where you are.

4) Now that you are aware that there may be a serious issues issues
with the house, you cannot sell the house without disclosing it to
potential buyers and agents. You have already stated that you
wouldn't lie to sell the house, so, simply put, you can't sell the
house right now.

The market is sliding right now, practically everywhere. Even if you
had the $$ to fix the house, you would lose out if you sell it right
away.

BTW, for this house that I am managing with similar issues - The
seller caulked and painted over a horizontal crack that was about 1/4"
to 3/8" wide. The court considered this an attempt to conceal the
problem and this was a major nail in his coffin in court.

Learn to love the house that you are in. Do your homework, get your
lawsuit going, and take things step by step.

JK

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In article N%4nj.6197$v86.5390@trnddc08, dadiOH says...

Banty wrote:

But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like
- you can pursue this through a lawyer. And the house isn't going
to fall down tomorrow. It's still a house for the living in while
you decide what to do, cracks or no cracks.

You're in, the deal's done; you'll need to either disclose and lose
on the sale if you move, or you fix the problem.


How do you figure that? If the seller knew of material problems and
did not disclose them the *seller* is on the hook for repairs. It is
also entirely possible that the deal may be undone; as I said, the OP
needs to consult a lawyer to determine his alternatives and the
efficacy thereof.


I don't know what you mean by "deal is done", then, unless you're insisting on
including as part of that the possibly liability that the seller may still have
as to non-disclosure. Which is kind of a broad way to define a deal.

I *said* he may be recourse to get the seller to pay for these undisclosed
problems.

But my *point* is that he has closed - he's bought the house. He's now in a
position that he owns the problem, one way or the other, either by himself
needing to disclose, or himself needing to fix, hopefully with funds gotten by
litigation from the seller if he fixes. But either way, it's his problem now.

Banty

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In article , Steve B. says...

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:01:14 GMT, "Mac" wrote:


I don't trust home inspectors, is there anybody else I could bring in that
wouldn't have an agenda?
Lastly, do disclosure forms mean anything?
Thanks for all the replies.


Don't panic. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Realize that it has
been this way for years and you don't have to solve the problem this
week.

Lets say there is a real problem.. It is going to cost 20k to fix
(number pulled from my ass) and you are easily going to loose another
10k on realtors fees and expenses to just sell out and go rent again.
From your earlier e-mail it doesn't sound like that is an option for
you (it sure wouldn't be for me). So just put the sell and move idea
out of your mind for the time being. It's a broken house but it's
your broken house.

First step is to bring in an engineer to look at the problem, let you
know if there is a severe problem and if there is how to fix it.
Assuming there is a problem, and from what you say there probably is,
take that report to an atty and let them take it from there. The atty
will tell you how to proceed. The disclosure does mean something. You
probably have a good case against all party's involved.

Realize that a resolution to your problem is probably two years away.
I know it is hard, It's aggravating and it's wrong but if you can
accept that fact now then the whole process is going to be much less
stressful for you.

My last thought would be to not contact the seller, real estate agent
or inspector again. Wait until you have the report and an atty and
let the atty guide you. If you tip your hand now you are just giving
them a head start to find a way out of it.


What Steve said.

And in the meantime, it's a house for the living. Plan a party in it; do a
little redecorating. You can't sit on this problem and ignore it, but it isn't
going to fall down tomorrow either.

Banty

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Mac wrote:
During the post-inspection walk through, however, he didn't have that much
to say. I told my real estate agent not to come but she showed up anyway.


You keep saying "my" agent. Did you sign a contract with this agent
to represent you? Or did this agent get a commission on the sale of
the house? This agent certainly did not act in your interest, so it
is important that you know who the agent was obligated to serve, you
or the seller.

How did this agent know when the inspection was going to occur? Who
paid the inspector? Did you call the inspector afterward, privately?

Una
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dadiOH wrote:
Mac wrote:

Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in
the basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there
are), and no material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking
water (I had to completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it
usable.


In which case you have recourse against the seller. Go see a lawyer.


And also possibly the agent.

Could you post some pictures of the cracks? Just how extensive is the
cracking?


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Mac wrote:
I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4".


This is a major problem and requires blocking and boxing to repair.
Also get a FOUNDATION REPAIR company to look at the house. This is
beyond the scope of a standard home inspection service. Also, the
foundation repair estimate better be free or look elsewhere.

This one was hidden by a tall freezer so the
inspector did not see it and "our" real estate agent told me to use the
epoxy. Many of the cracks have been poorly patched, (patches falling out)
and filled with [filler rod?] so they did have knowledge of them.


Take lots of pictures!

The basement bath flooded after about an inch of rain. The walls are
finished so I'm not sure what's behind them. I asked the sellers (through
our agents) if the basement stayed dry since we needed it for office space.
The answer was that they had some trouble years ago but that it was fixed.


After the next rain take some pictures as evidence. It is obviously not
fixed.

The market in our area is actually pretty good. We have several booming
industries which keep thiings going. Some houses have been sitting but they
are over priced. I didn't care for the house when we bought it but it was
the only one we could afford in a safe neighborhood. Now I just want to fix
it and get out.
I don't trust home inspectors, is there anybody else I could bring in that
wouldn't have an agenda?
Lastly, do disclosure forms mean anything?
Thanks for all the replies.


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"Mac" wrote in message
news:h45nj.4150$z_6.2865@trnddc06...
"Joseph Meehan" As a teacher I try to
instill in my students honesty and integrity. I guess I was just a wee
bit out of my element.
-Mac


As a teacher it great that you try to instill honesty in the students,

However you need to get tehm ready for the real world. There is much
cheating and dishonesty out there.

I don't recall the name of the movie or exectally what was said. It was
Roger Dangerfield going back to college after he was a business man. A
question was asked by the professor about how something was done . After an
answer or two, Roger stood up and said that was all wrong, you had to bribe
the people and basically do a lot of other dishonest things.

The selling agent and if you had a buying agent for the house, neither one
gets paid if they don't sell the house. Many times the inspector is one
recommended by them. He gets paid either way, but if he does not give a
good report, he will not get called very often.


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On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:26:04 GMT, "Mac" wrote:

But for right now I need a
goal, something to look forward to.


Start making notes, collect your documents and take photos now! Take
more when you have the damage inspected.

Document, Document, Document. Did I say photos?

I think trying to bail out of this house now; will cause more stress
on your life.


Oren
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In article , Mike Dobony says...

Mac wrote:
I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4".


This is a major problem and requires blocking and boxing to repair.
Also get a FOUNDATION REPAIR company to look at the house. This is
beyond the scope of a standard home inspection service. Also, the
foundation repair estimate better be free or look elsewhere.


"Blocking and boxing"?

Banty



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I believe it was called Back to School, very funny movie. And point taken.
I didn't use the inspector my buying agent wanted me to use because I read
that could be a bad idea.


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"Una" wrote in message ...
Mac wrote:
During the post-inspection walk through, however, he didn't have that much
to say. I told my real estate agent not to come but she showed up anyway.


You keep saying "my" agent. Did you sign a contract with this agent
to represent you? Or did this agent get a commission on the sale of
the house? This agent certainly did not act in your interest, so it
is important that you know who the agent was obligated to serve, you
or the seller.

How did this agent know when the inspection was going to occur? Who
paid the inspector? Did you call the inspector afterward, privately?

Una


Our buying agent was paid by the seller. We were assured that she
represented our best interests by law. Again, my naivite is showing.
She knew when the inpspection was going to occure because she kept very
close to our case, calling, etc. I thought she was just trying to do a good
job. Maybe that's true, I don't know.
I payed the inspector. My wife kept our egent busy for a few minutes so I
could speak with the inspector alone during the post-inspection walk
through.


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"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article N%4nj.6197$v86.5390@trnddc08, dadiOH says...

Banty wrote:

But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like
- you can pursue this through a lawyer. And the house isn't going
to fall down tomorrow. It's still a house for the living in while
you decide what to do, cracks or no cracks.

You're in, the deal's done; you'll need to either disclose and lose
on the sale if you move, or you fix the problem.


How do you figure that? If the seller knew of material problems and
did not disclose them the *seller* is on the hook for repairs. It is
also entirely possible that the deal may be undone; as I said, the OP
needs to consult a lawyer to determine his alternatives and the
efficacy thereof.


I don't know what you mean by "deal is done", then, unless you're
insisting on
including as part of that the possibly liability that the seller may still
have
as to non-disclosure. Which is kind of a broad way to define a deal.

I *said* he may be recourse to get the seller to pay for these undisclosed
problems.

But my *point* is that he has closed - he's bought the house. He's now in
a
position that he owns the problem, one way or the other, either by himself
needing to disclose, or himself needing to fix, hopefully with funds
gotten by
litigation from the seller if he fixes. But either way, it's his problem
now.

Banty


I understand what is being said here. For better or worse, it's my
responsability now. If and when we do try to sell, we don't want to lie on
the disclosure. Not just because we would have the bad luck to get sued,
but also it's just plain wrong. We don't have the 20-30k that the
contractor quoted for digging out the foundation but I'm not sure that it
would be necessary for it to be truly fixed. This is why I will be calling
a structural engineer.


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"Steve B." wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:01:14 GMT, "Mac" wrote:


I don't trust home inspectors, is there anybody else I could bring in that
wouldn't have an agenda?
Lastly, do disclosure forms mean anything?
Thanks for all the replies.


Don't panic. Calm down. Take a deep breath. Realize that it has
been this way for years and you don't have to solve the problem this
week.

Lets say there is a real problem.. It is going to cost 20k to fix
(number pulled from my ass) and you are easily going to loose another
10k on realtors fees and expenses to just sell out and go rent again.
From your earlier e-mail it doesn't sound like that is an option for
you (it sure wouldn't be for me). So just put the sell and move idea
out of your mind for the time being. It's a broken house but it's
your broken house.

First step is to bring in an engineer to look at the problem, let you
know if there is a severe problem and if there is how to fix it.
Assuming there is a problem, and from what you say there probably is,
take that report to an atty and let them take it from there. The atty
will tell you how to proceed. The disclosure does mean something. You
probably have a good case against all party's involved.

Realize that a resolution to your problem is probably two years away.
I know it is hard, It's aggravating and it's wrong but if you can
accept that fact now then the whole process is going to be much less
stressful for you.

My last thought would be to not contact the seller, real estate agent
or inspector again. Wait until you have the report and an atty and
let the atty guide you. If you tip your hand now you are just giving
them a head start to find a way out of it.

Steve


Good advice, thanks. I don't want to tip my hand or give them a head start.


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On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:24:59 GMT, "Mac" wrote:

Our buying agent was paid by the seller.


That sentence shivers me. Was this a licensed Realtor?

In my state I can take a class taught by brokers ($500.00), never be
licensed but work for the selling Realtor....thus, *buyers agent*.

A buyers agent does the foot work, phone calls, holds an open house
with baked cookies. And brings the walk-in buyer to the selling
Realtor - under their license.

Think Realtor vs *buyer's agent*


Oren
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Mac wrote:
Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. A bit of a long story but suffice it
to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were burnt out
when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). When we
were finally released from the first house we had about a week to choose a
place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and move. We
knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't find anything
that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the block
foundation. Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks with a
specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and they
looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's talking
about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. I felt the dark clouds forming
over my head at that moment. The epoxy supplier gave us a name of a
contractor and he came to the house. He told us not to move in (which was
to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. Every wall (that we
can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by boxes shoved into
closets that were built over the cracked walls). In hind site, we should
have walked away from the place after the final walkthrough but we were lead
to believe that the walkthrough was just a formality and that we were pretty
much locked in to the purchase at that point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and no
material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. I thought I
did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting screwed, which
I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about to
resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can we
do? We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks in
foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties), but I
find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the price
of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). I am an educator
and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this whole
experience affected me deeply. It's not a bad place (other than the
problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church, and
pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. But still, I want out in a year or
so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.


I've been following this post for several days and have a couple of
thoughts. It sounds like you've been had. To make you whole you will
probably need to litigate. Take a set of good photos that illustrate
the problem(s). Make the measurements suggested elsewhere to determine
if the walls are moving, and are now non-planar. Find an attorney with
a good track record in this area, not one that a friend of a friend
suggests. Do your homework and interview several. You are hiring them
as a consultant...approach it that way.

A first order search could be done by using Martindale-Hubble
(www.martindale.com) Talk with the attorney, ask him to suggest an
engineer. The reason for this is that the attorney will know which
engineer will provide the evaluation and opinion that is most likely to
aid you. This may not be the same engineer you will use later to design
a remedy, but the best engineer, complete with plastic pocket protector
may not be the one your attorney wants testifying.

If you can find an attorney who will take this (perhaps on contingency)
then have at the seller. After you know what resources you have to fix
the problem talk with a good engineer and perhaps a hydro-geologist if
water is an issue. Remember though that little can be accomplished to
hold back water from the inside of the foundation. Diversion of the
water from the outside is the most effective approach. French drains,
perimeter drains at the level of the footings, etc. are most effective.

I'm an engineer who has worked with numerous attorneys as an expert
witness...we've never lost a case. (I don't do it any more. I'm
retired.) However, I feel quite confident when I say that as with any
profession, 90% of the engineers and attorneys are not in the top 10%.
Choose carefully.

Boden
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No, no contract.


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"Boden" wrote in message
...
Mac wrote:
Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. A bit of a long story but suffice
it to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were
burnt out when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). When
we were finally released from the first house we had about a week to
choose a place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and
move. We knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't
find anything that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the
block foundation. Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks
with a specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and
they looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's
talking about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. I felt the dark
clouds forming over my head at that moment. The epoxy supplier gave us a
name of a contractor and he came to the house. He told us not to move in
(which was to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. Every
wall (that we can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by
boxes shoved into closets that were built over the cracked walls). In
hind site, we should have walked away from the place after the final
walkthrough but we were lead to believe that the walkthrough was just a
formality and that we were pretty much locked in to the purchase at that
point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and
no material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. I
thought I did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting
screwed, which I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about
to resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can
we do? We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks
in foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties),
but I find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the
price of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). I am an
educator and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this
whole experience affected me deeply. It's not a bad place (other than
the problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church,
and pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. But still, I want out in a
year or so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.

I've been following this post for several days and have a couple of
thoughts. It sounds like you've been had. To make you whole you will
probably need to litigate. Take a set of good photos that illustrate the
problem(s). Make the measurements suggested elsewhere to determine if the
walls are moving, and are now non-planar. Find an attorney with a good
track record in this area, not one that a friend of a friend suggests. Do
your homework and interview several. You are hiring them as a
consultant...approach it that way.

A first order search could be done by using Martindale-Hubble
(www.martindale.com) Talk with the attorney, ask him to suggest an
engineer. The reason for this is that the attorney will know which
engineer will provide the evaluation and opinion that is most likely to
aid you. This may not be the same engineer you will use later to design a
remedy, but the best engineer, complete with plastic pocket protector may
not be the one your attorney wants testifying.

If you can find an attorney who will take this (perhaps on contingency)
then have at the seller. After you know what resources you have to fix
the problem talk with a good engineer and perhaps a hydro-geologist if
water is an issue. Remember though that little can be accomplished to
hold back water from the inside of the foundation. Diversion of the water
from the outside is the most effective approach. French drains, perimeter
drains at the level of the footings, etc. are most effective.

I'm an engineer who has worked with numerous attorneys as an expert
witness...we've never lost a case. (I don't do it any more. I'm
retired.) However, I feel quite confident when I say that as with any
profession, 90% of the engineers and attorneys are not in the top 10%.
Choose carefully.

Boden


Boden,
Feel like coming out of retirement?
Seriously, thanks for the advice. I hope I'm better at choosing an attorney
than I am at real estate agents and inspectors.
I'm concerned though, if I go with an experienced attorney that has been in
the area for a while...he may know the seller. The seller was a businessman
in this area for almost forty years. If I go with a young hot shot, he/she
may lack experience. Should I look for someone with a limited area of
expertise (including real estate) or one with a broader scope?
I will do my homework and take the measurements.
Again, any advice would be appreciated.
-Mac




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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:29:34 GMT, "Mac" wrote:

No, no contract.


I'm sorry to hear that.

This *buyer's agent* - in essence did not work for you, but for the
listing Realtor. She reeled in the buyer and got her commission/fee.
She is not most likely licensed.. and I suspect your urgency to get
into this house from a rental contributed to this.

Always have your own state licensed agent or attorney and a contract.

Oren
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Mac wrote:
"Boden" wrote in message
...

Mac wrote:

Hello everyone,
My wife and I bought our first house. A bit of a long story but suffice
it to say that we had very little time to make our decision and were
burnt out when we finally did.
We got the boot from our seven year rental house because the landlords
wanted to move back in. We used up 40 of our sixty days on a house that
didn't pass inspection (and the sellers rejected the inspection). When
we were finally released from the first house we had about a week to
choose a place (we could afford), make the offer, negotiate, close, and
move. We knew we should rent and try to slow things down but couldn't
find anything that would take our four cats.
So, during the final walk through we noticed a couple of cracks in the
block foundation. Our realtor told us we could simply fill the cracks
with a specially formulated epoxy (and gun) and told me where to buy it.
After the closing, we went straight to the place she told up to go and
they looked at me kind of sad like and said, "she doesn't know what she's
talking about, you can't use epoxy for block walls. I felt the dark
clouds forming over my head at that moment. The epoxy supplier gave us a
name of a contractor and he came to the house. He told us not to move in
(which was to happen the very next day), and that we got hosed. Every
wall (that we can see) has several cracks in it (initially hidden by
boxes shoved into closets that were built over the cracked walls). In
hind site, we should have walked away from the place after the final
walkthrough but we were lead to believe that the walkthrough was just a
formality and that we were pretty much locked in to the purchase at that
point.
Okay, so the seller's disclosure form claims there are no cracks in the
basement walls, that there are no leakage problems (which there are), and
no material or plumbing defects that would cause leaking water (I had to
completely regrout the tile shower stall to make it usable.
We found the home buying process to be very dishonest and ugly. I
thought I did my homework (my wife said I was obsessed with not getting
screwed, which I was) but here we are.
These folks made a huge profit (enough to retire on) from us and we're
paycheck to paycheck people stuck with a house we would have to lie about
to resell (which we won't do).
So, short of spending 20-30 grand to have the foundation fixed, what can
we do? We don't have (and never will have) that kind of money.
Some folks have told me that many buyers don't really care about cracks
in foundation walls (in a house this age, built in the early sixties),
but I find this hard to believe.
After all we've been through, we would like to sell the place for the
price of the loan and get another rental (at least for a while). I am an
educator and spend my days trying to teach honesty and integrity and this
whole experience affected me deeply. It's not a bad place (other than
the problems described), it's in a good neighborhood, close to a church,
and pretty quiet with very nice neighbors. But still, I want out in a
year or so.
Are there any consumer protection agencies for this sort of thing? There
are plenty of books out there on how to screw people over but nothing for
the person that gets screwed.
Any advice? Should we just chisel out the cracks (steps, horizontal, and
vertical) and fill them with mortar as best we can? I'm a handy guy but
know next to nothing about masonry.
Sorry for the long post and thanks for listening.


I've been following this post for several days and have a couple of
thoughts. It sounds like you've been had. To make you whole you will
probably need to litigate. Take a set of good photos that illustrate the
problem(s). Make the measurements suggested elsewhere to determine if the
walls are moving, and are now non-planar. Find an attorney with a good
track record in this area, not one that a friend of a friend suggests. Do
your homework and interview several. You are hiring them as a
consultant...approach it that way.

A first order search could be done by using Martindale-Hubble
(www.martindale.com) Talk with the attorney, ask him to suggest an
engineer. The reason for this is that the attorney will know which
engineer will provide the evaluation and opinion that is most likely to
aid you. This may not be the same engineer you will use later to design a
remedy, but the best engineer, complete with plastic pocket protector may
not be the one your attorney wants testifying.

If you can find an attorney who will take this (perhaps on contingency)
then have at the seller. After you know what resources you have to fix
the problem talk with a good engineer and perhaps a hydro-geologist if
water is an issue. Remember though that little can be accomplished to
hold back water from the inside of the foundation. Diversion of the water
from the outside is the most effective approach. French drains, perimeter
drains at the level of the footings, etc. are most effective.

I'm an engineer who has worked with numerous attorneys as an expert
witness...we've never lost a case. (I don't do it any more. I'm
retired.) However, I feel quite confident when I say that as with any
profession, 90% of the engineers and attorneys are not in the top 10%.
Choose carefully.

Boden



Boden,
Feel like coming out of retirement?
Seriously, thanks for the advice. I hope I'm better at choosing an attorney
than I am at real estate agents and inspectors.
I'm concerned though, if I go with an experienced attorney that has been in
the area for a while...he may know the seller. The seller was a businessman
in this area for almost forty years. If I go with a young hot shot, he/she
may lack experience. Should I look for someone with a limited area of
expertise (including real estate) or one with a broader scope?
I will do my homework and take the measurements.
Again, any advice would be appreciated.
-Mac


I'd look for an attorney outside the town/city you live in. Find out
where the court for your county is. Look for an attorney in that city.
Some individual practitioners are very good, but the larger firms tend
to have resources that may be useful. The hourly cost is not as
important as the total cost. I find that the more experienced folks
often cost less at the end of the day. Negotiate. Contingency, fixed
price, not to exceed, etc. Attorneys are in business too.

Boden
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"Mac" wrote

Thanks for advice. Will an engineer overstate the matter? When the
contactor looked at it he told us "not to move in". Scared the heck out
of me.


I got scared recently by a high end contractor. Once I calmed down, I
realized the house problem I had was not that drastic. (my enclosed porch
has to be redone, we can do it ourselves now tht we've calmed down and
looked at it). Lesson learned: Don't panic right away.

I'll call around this week and check prices. Until then, I have a
friend's husband coming out to take a look. He runs a remodeling
business. I realize he's not an expert but he is someone I can trust.


Thats actually a great idea. Someone you can trust who's familiar enough
with the industry to spot a real problem, is a good idea.

financing, etc. I was naive enough, however, to think that if I paid
someone $300 they would tell me the truth and not sugarcoat the facts.
Our inspector said he was known as a "deal breaker", which is why we hired
him.


Then you probably did get a decent deal, unless the person who told you he
was a 'deal breaker' was the realtor selling the house sad grin. We used
a fellow of our own. He's a little cheaper but only because he hand writes
his reports. He missed a few things, but nothing major. He was dead on for
the roof for example and we took care of it within the timeframe he
specified. My neighbors now are paying upwards of 35,000-50,000 dollars
because they didnt follow the advice to have the plywood mostly replaced at
just this age juncture. (we got away with about 5,000$ 6 years ago
instead). He even warned us the main pipe to the sewer would 'probably go
in 5-10 years' but not to replace it early. It went at the 7 year point and
was re-run at a time when we could much better afford it than when we first
got the house.

hand out of the fire. Emotional, I know. that's why I'm waiting until
summer. I'll see how I feel about it then. But for right now I need a
goal, something to look forward to.


Grin, good that you are waiting. Now, if you are serious about selling,
come spring you need to really do a job up nice on the yard with flowering
plants and such.

Thanks for all the help everyone.


Glad to help. Seriously, it may not be that bad. I have a house with
settling too, but it's stable and nothing to worry about. A few minor
cracks in spots but the only really 'bad' is the driveway and that is
fixable. It's nothing worse than an old driveway and the freeze-thaw of the
area.


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"Mac" wrote

I payed the inspector. My wife kept our egent busy for a few minutes so I
could speak with the inspector alone during the post-inspection walk
through.


That's essential. In my state, the realtor is not allowed to be there when
the inspector discusses the findings but the findings afterwards may be
given to the realtor. In our case, the realtor was there, but not in the
same place (he was out in the back yard).

I *think* I recall that VA state or my local county/city law required the
realtor be advised if there were any actual safety issues discovered. Those
issues then had to be disclosed to any potential buyers until inspection
showed they had been fixed. There were two in our house, but it was not a
major stop. It was the electrical outlet that operated the garage door
opener (2 prong with adapter ungrounded plugged in for a 3 prong device) and
the cord for the electric motor for the well pump in the back yard. We dont
use the well pump, and we replaced the garage door and mechanism with a
manual unit to match the new siding.


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Default Cracks in basement block walls

"dadiOH" wrote

But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like
- you can pursue this through a lawyer. And the house isn't going
to fall down tomorrow. It's still a house for the living in while
you decide what to do, cracks or no cracks.


Not really. Even in a disclosure state, you have some protections as a
seller. My state is a mix-match there I think if I understand it right. If
you do not want to be held liable, you sell as 'non-disclosure' which means
you can not be held liable for anything. If you do disclose, you have
limits on what you can be sued for later as based on reasonable knowledge
basis.

You can for example: Disclose no knowledge of any roof problems, and not be
held liable if 5 years later it turns out the roof starts to go.

How do you figure that? If the seller knew of material problems and
did not disclose them the *seller* is on the hook for repairs. It is


Not really. If the state doesnt require disclosure, but 'allows for it if
you want to' there's a huge difference.




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Default Cracks in basement block walls

In article , cshenk says...

"dadiOH" wrote

But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like
- you can pursue this through a lawyer. And the house isn't going
to fall down tomorrow. It's still a house for the living in while
you decide what to do, cracks or no cracks.


Not really. Even in a disclosure state, you have some protections as a
seller. My state is a mix-match there I think if I understand it right. If
you do not want to be held liable, you sell as 'non-disclosure' which means
you can not be held liable for anything. If you do disclose, you have
limits on what you can be sued for later as based on reasonable knowledge
basis.

You can for example: Disclose no knowledge of any roof problems, and not be
held liable if 5 years later it turns out the roof starts to go.

How do you figure that? If the seller knew of material problems and
did not disclose them the *seller* is on the hook for repairs. It is


Not really. If the state doesnt require disclosure, but 'allows for it if
you want to' there's a huge difference.


One limit is that you need to show the seller *knew*. Especially if they're not
the original occupants of the house, that may be hard to show. For example, did
the freezer that blocked the view of the shifted block come with the house when
*they* bought?

I know that a lot of people don't want to do certain repairs or even bring an
engineer in because it would make it easier to show something they didn't
disclose. (Oh the tangled web we weave....)

Banty

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Default Cracks in basement block walls

Banty wrote:
In article , Mike Dobony says...
Mac wrote:
I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4".

This is a major problem and requires blocking and boxing to repair.
Also get a FOUNDATION REPAIR company to look at the house. This is
beyond the scope of a standard home inspection service. Also, the
foundation repair estimate better be free or look elsewhere.


"Blocking and boxing"?

Banty



That is what they call the reinforcement of foundation walls.
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Default Cracks in basement block walls

In article , Mike Dobony says...

Banty wrote:
In article , Mike Dobony says...
Mac wrote:
I apologize for the vagueness of my post.
We did use a home inspector. The report stated "above average settling". I
called him and asked him point blank and he said that the house had probably
settled as much as it was going to and that it wasn't an "oh no!" situation.
When I asked him if he would buy this house he said he could loose his
liceance for answering that question.
Some of the cracks are pretty large, a 1/4" or more and run horizontaly the
length of one wall, another verticaly (right through the block) from top to
bottom, several step cracks with varying widths (one I can see daylight
through at the window well), and there is a "T" crack where the wall has
pushed in about a 1/4".
This is a major problem and requires blocking and boxing to repair.
Also get a FOUNDATION REPAIR company to look at the house. This is
beyond the scope of a standard home inspection service. Also, the
foundation repair estimate better be free or look elsewhere.


"Blocking and boxing"?

Banty



That is what they call the reinforcement of foundation walls.


But in which way? There are several ways. A google search showed a way to
retro-fit piers, but most likely that does not apply to the OP. I found nothing
searching on "blocking and boxing" (or the reverse) and foundation in Google.

Banty (just curious about this stuff)

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Default Cracks in basement block walls

On Jan 28, 8:24*am, Banty wrote:
In article , cshenk says...







"dadiOH" wrote


But the good news is - you're in a disclosure state it sounds like
- you can pursue this through a lawyer. *And the house isn't going
to fall down tomorrow. It's still a house for the living in while
you decide what to do, cracks or no cracks.


Not really. *Even in a disclosure state, you have some protections as a
seller. *My state is a mix-match there I think if I understand it right.. *If
you do not want to be held liable, you sell as 'non-disclosure' which means
you can not be held liable for anything. *If you do disclose, you have
limits on what you can be sued for later as based on reasonable knowledge
basis.


You can for example: *Disclose no knowledge of any roof problems, and not be
held liable if 5 years later it turns out the roof starts to go.


How do you figure that? *If the seller knew of material problems and
did not disclose them the *seller* is on the hook for repairs. *It is


Not really. *If the state doesnt require disclosure, but 'allows for it if
you want to' there's a huge difference.


One limit is that you need to show the seller *knew*. *Especially if they're not
the original occupants of the house, that may be hard to show. *For example, did
the freezer that blocked the view of the shifted block come with the house when
*they* bought?

I know that a lot of people don't want to do certain repairs or even bring an
engineer in because it would make it easier to show something they didn't
disclose. * *(Oh the tangled web we weave....)

Banty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



And along that line of reasoning, another major problem is that Mac
had his own inspection done before the purchase. We don't know
exactly what the inspection report says about the foundation, beyond
that it says above average settling. As a seller, a very effective
defense is going to be that the seller is not an expert in home
inspection, foundation problems, etc. They will say they didn't know
there were any significant foundation problems. And the buyer's own
inspector, who presumably is qualified, did inspect it for the buyer.
If it turns out there are major foundation problems, I would think he
has a better case against the home inspector, though he certainly
should sue both, if it comes to that.

But until he gets a qualifed analysis of the foundation, no one will
knows for sure the extent of his problems. If it can be fixed for
$5K-10K, he can get it repaired and then sue in small claims. Only
if it's a lot larger than that is it going to be worth the legal
expense of a regular suit.

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Default Cracks in basement block walls

In pennsylvania a neighbor didnt disclose her main sewer line was bad.
the new owner had a back up, she was a bookeeper for a plumber, he
cameraed the line, all bad. they asked around neighbors reported the
plumber was there a lot.

end of story gal sued old owner and won for whole new sewer line,
replaced wall, line was under wall and new driveway, line crossed
driveway.

reportedly about 15 thousand...........including attorney fees.

old owner pid thru the nose
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