Bladder water tank problem...
 

I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

Bladder water tank problem...
 

On Jan 3, 6:16*pm, JBond wrote:
I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

I can see no way that running the tank fully empty did any harm.

I had the "delay" before teh pump would kick in bit. Traced it down
to an almost totally blocked riser pipe to the pressure switch. It
would take awhile before the change in pressure reached the switch.
Cleaned the pipe, problem cured.

Turn off the power, disconnect the wires to the switch (note where
they go!), unscrew switch, unscrew pipe and look at it. I had to take
a drill bit to ream out the crud in the pipe.

Harry K

Bladder water tank problem...
 

I would look there too but I used to clear mine with a screwdriver.


"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 6:16 pm, JBond wrote:
I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

I can see no way that running the tank fully empty did any harm.

I had the "delay" before teh pump would kick in bit. Traced it down
to an almost totally blocked riser pipe to the pressure switch. It
would take awhile before the change in pressure reached the switch.
Cleaned the pipe, problem cured.

Turn off the power, disconnect the wires to the switch (note where
they go!), unscrew switch, unscrew pipe and look at it. I had to take
a drill bit to ream out the crud in the pipe.

Harry K

Bladder water tank problem...
 

On Jan 3, 10:45*pm, "Art" wrote:
I would look there too but I used to clear mine with a screwdriver.

"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 6:16 pm, JBond wrote:





I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

I can see no way that running the tank fully empty did any harm.

I had the "delay" before teh pump would kick in bit. *Traced it down
to an almost totally blocked riser pipe to the pressure switch. *It
would take awhile before the change in pressure reached the switch.
Cleaned the pipe, problem cured.

Turn off the power, disconnect the wires to the switch (note where
they go!), unscrew switch, unscrew pipe and look at it. *I had to take
a drill bit to ream out the crud in the pipe.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Great! After doing some more analysis, I watched the cycle move from
33 to 97 (I remember it used to be 40-60). the max the tank has is
100. phew
I've emptied the tank (to 40) lifted and shook the tank to see if I
hear water. (i also relieved some air from the air valve when it was
fully water charged@97, and no water.). Bladder seems fine.

My thought was that the switch wasn't performing it's function.
Sooooo, when I saw your posts, it confirms my suspicion. The
galvanized fitting is extremely corroded. I'm adding air to 38 by
hand pump while it's empty (the guage lowered to 32 with pump off).
the Tee and fittings are all corroded, I was planning on changing them
for brass, however i wanted to wait until warm weather is back with
us.

Question: saw some other posts mentionning that bladder type tanks
designed to last 10, mine is now 17, can we confirm that these tanks
won't go further?

Thanks for your quick responses!

Bladder water tank problem...
 

On Jan 4, 10:50*am, JBond wrote:
On Jan 3, 10:45*pm, "Art" wrote:





I would look there too but I used to clear mine with a screwdriver.

"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 6:16 pm, JBond wrote:

I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

I can see no way that running the tank fully empty did any harm.

I had the "delay" before teh pump would kick in bit. *Traced it down
to an almost totally blocked riser pipe to the pressure switch. *It
would take awhile before the change in pressure reached the switch.
Cleaned the pipe, problem cured.

Turn off the power, disconnect the wires to the switch (note where
they go!), unscrew switch, unscrew pipe and look at it. *I had to take
a drill bit to ream out the crud in the pipe.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Great! *After doing some more analysis, I watched the cycle move from
33 to 97 (I remember it used to be 40-60). the max the tank has is
100. phew
I've emptied the tank (to 40) lifted and shook the tank to see if I
hear water. (i also relieved some air from the air valve when it was
fully water charged@97, and no water.). Bladder seems fine.

My thought was that the switch wasn't performing it's function.
Sooooo, when I saw your posts, it confirms my suspicion. The
galvanized fitting is extremely corroded. *I'm adding air to 38 by
hand pump while it's empty (the guage lowered to 32 with pump off).
the Tee and fittings are all corroded, I was planning on changing them
for brass, however i wanted to wait until warm weather is back with
us.

Question: *saw some other posts mentionning that bladder type tanks
designed to last 10, mine is now 17, can we confirm that these tanks
won't go further?

Thanks for your quick responses!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fix those fittings now. Your pump will destroy itself if you keep
running it tht way and fooling around with the tank ain't a gonna help
anything.

Harry K

Bladder water tank problem...
 

My tank was about 20 years old when I sold the house. Frankly, I don't know
whether it was a bladder tank or not but I never had to recharge it with air
so I assume it was a bladder tank.

Fix the fittings and leave the tank for now.


"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Jan 4, 10:50 am, JBond wrote:
On Jan 3, 10:45 pm, "Art" wrote:





I would look there too but I used to clear mine with a screwdriver.

"Harry K" wrote in message

...
On Jan 3, 6:16 pm, JBond wrote:

I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

I can see no way that running the tank fully empty did any harm.

I had the "delay" before teh pump would kick in bit. Traced it down
to an almost totally blocked riser pipe to the pressure switch. It
would take awhile before the change in pressure reached the switch.
Cleaned the pipe, problem cured.

Turn off the power, disconnect the wires to the switch (note where
they go!), unscrew switch, unscrew pipe and look at it. I had to take
a drill bit to ream out the crud in the pipe.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Great! After doing some more analysis, I watched the cycle move from
33 to 97 (I remember it used to be 40-60). the max the tank has is
100. phew
I've emptied the tank (to 40) lifted and shook the tank to see if I
hear water. (i also relieved some air from the air valve when it was
fully water charged@97, and no water.). Bladder seems fine.

My thought was that the switch wasn't performing it's function.
Sooooo, when I saw your posts, it confirms my suspicion. The
galvanized fitting is extremely corroded. I'm adding air to 38 by
hand pump while it's empty (the guage lowered to 32 with pump off).
the Tee and fittings are all corroded, I was planning on changing them
for brass, however i wanted to wait until warm weather is back with
us.

Question: saw some other posts mentionning that bladder type tanks
designed to last 10, mine is now 17, can we confirm that these tanks
won't go further?

Thanks for your quick responses!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Fix those fittings now. Your pump will destroy itself if you keep
running it tht way and fooling around with the tank ain't a gonna help
anything.

Harry K

Bladder water tank problem...
 

On Jan 3, 9:16*pm, JBond wrote:
I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

Well, I want to thank you both for the clues, recommendations and
suggestions.
Problem is now solved.
I found that in removing the pressure switch from the tee, the small
double end threaded nipple had a plumbing compression ring (not sure
if this is the right name for it) that was inserted between the nipple
and the switch's base. This compression ring flipped 90degrees on it's
side, restricting the flow of water, and when the silt got in and
accumlated over the years, it blocked it out completely. after using a
drill bit, and carefully cleaning out the sides without drilling
through the base, I removed the silt. The ring was there, and flipped
around like a gimble. Using a screwdriver I crushed this useless
compression ring and using the copper ground of household wire
fashioned a hook to pull it out.

Ok, you're thinking why all this work.... well the double ended
threaded nipple is only one inch long, leaving no room to unscrew the
other end from the switch base, without stripping the nipple. (I live
20Km from the nearest hardware store), and there's no guarantee they
stock this small non-standard diameter pipe.

The tank's bladder (actually it's a diaphram as I learned yesterday in
my research), and has been over stretched over the 100PSI max
(Yesterday). After adding air, this pushed the pressure cut-out to
over 120. I quickly releaved the air and turned on a fawcett, then
fiddled to bring the tank's pressure down so that it would cut out at
97. The risk of a tank explosion made me nervous.

I've decided (next spring) to change the tank for a new one (they're
expensive), but for a larger capacity so that I can benefit from lower
electrical costs and fewer pump start-ups.
At this time, I'll change the entire galvanized tee assembly for
brass, adjust the service pipe higher so that I can raise the tank on
blocks with a water tray collector below it to capture the
condensation and potential future tank rupture. I'll run a pipe out to
the sump pit from the water tray collector, and I'll hook in a
pressure relief valve which I don't have. This will save the tank from
over pressurized conditions, which would eventually occur as the silt
builds up in the switch.

Again thanks for your experience and help.
-James

Bladder water tank problem...
 

On Jan 5, 2:47*pm, JBond wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:16*pm, JBond wrote:





I turned off the pump and then the water valves to house - done to
clean and replace a silt filter.
Absent mindedly, I opened the valves to the house, but neglected to
power the pump. Used up all water in the tank to the maximum before
discovering the error (hours later), where I powered the pump.

Here's the problem, since this time (and this was months ago), a
shower will bring me a trickle when the tank has emptied, sucking in
air to the plumping and about 30 seconds later the cut-in signals to
the pump to start up, where pressure is immedietly rendered, tank
refilled and life is good again.

I haven't yet tried to verify that the tank pressure (empty of water)
is set at 2psi below cut-in (38) of the 40-60 cut-in/cut-out settings.

Looking for the experienced members of this group, to give me their
experience on whether the fact that I completely dispelled the water
in the tank may have caused my problem, or if it might be more serious
in nature likely a bladder rupture. I don't have a cycle on / cycle
off problem obviuosly. Just the opposite, i have a late restart.

thanks,
James

Well, I want to thank you both for the clues, recommendations and
suggestions.
Problem is now solved.
I found that in removing the pressure switch from the tee, the small
double end threaded nipple had a plumbing compression ring (not sure
if this is the right name for it) that was inserted between the nipple
and the switch's base. This compression ring flipped 90degrees on it's
side, restricting the flow of water, and when the silt got in and
accumlated over the years, it blocked it out completely. after using a
drill bit, and carefully cleaning out the sides without drilling
through the base, I removed the silt. The ring was there, and flipped
around like a gimble. Using a screwdriver I crushed this useless
compression ring and using the copper ground of household wire
fashioned a hook to pull it out.

Ok, you're thinking why all this work.... well the double ended
threaded nipple is only one inch long, leaving no room to unscrew the
other end from the switch base, without stripping the nipple. (I live
20Km from the nearest hardware store), and there's no guarantee they
stock this small non-standard diameter pipe.

The tank's bladder (actually it's a diaphram as I learned yesterday in
my research), and has been over stretched over the 100PSI max
(Yesterday). After adding air, this pushed the pressure cut-out to
over 120. I quickly releaved the air and turned on a fawcett, then
fiddled to bring the tank's pressure down so that it would cut out at
97. *The risk of a tank explosion made me nervous.

I've decided (next spring) to change the tank for a new one (they're
expensive), but for a larger capacity so that I can benefit from lower
electrical costs and fewer pump start-ups.
At this time, I'll change the entire galvanized tee assembly for
brass, adjust the service pipe higher so that I can raise the tank on
blocks with a water tray collector below it to capture the
condensation and potential future tank rupture. I'll run a pipe out to
the sump pit from the water tray collector, and I'll hook in a
pressure relief valve which I don't have. This will save the tank from
over pressurized conditions, which would eventually occur as the silt
builds up in the switch.

Again thanks for your experience and help.
-James- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just a side note: My tank has a replaceable bladder. When I priced a
new bladder I found out it would cost 90% of the price of a new tank.
Another good idea gone bad because of greed!

KC