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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Hi;
Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"komobu" wrote in message ... Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat My favorite method is to center up an oversize hex nut (3/8 nut on a 1/4 bolt etc.) over the broken remains, use a mig welder to weld the nut to the broken stud/bolt. Give it a shot of Kroil and unscrew. For small stuff drill a hole in some sheet metal, weld it to the screw, and weld a hex nut to the sheet metal. Lots of Kroil, maybe run it through a couple of heat/cool cycles, be patient. Works 90% + of the time. Bill |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Thanks Bill;
I had intended to say in the initial post that welding wasnt an option for me, but I failed to do so!!! I want to learn how to weld but that is another subject. My main question is on the composition of the drill bits. What material should I look for in the drill bits? Thanks Again Pat |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
komobu wrote:
Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat I use quality HSS bits because a) I don't need to do this very often and b) HSS bits can be resharpened. I haven't found an ez-out yet that works reliably. I usually end up drilling out the bolt almost to the threads and busting the swarf out with a bottom tap. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
BillM wrote:
"komobu" wrote in message ... Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat My favorite method is to center up an oversize hex nut (3/8 nut on a 1/4 bolt etc.) over the broken remains, use a mig welder to weld the nut to the broken stud/bolt. Give it a shot of Kroil and unscrew. For small stuff drill a hole in some sheet metal, weld it to the screw, and weld a hex nut to the sheet metal. Lots of Kroil, maybe run it through a couple of heat/cool cycles, be patient. Works 90% + of the time. Bill Last time I tried that I found that the busted bolts I had to remove were unhardened, and of some alloy that my MIG welder wouldn't penetrate it worth a damn! let that be a lesson to you, always use Grade 5! nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On Dec 30, 2:39*pm, komobu wrote:
Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, *I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat Cobalt is a step up from regular HSS. Titanium is actually titanium nitride, TiN, which is just a coating. It's the steel underneath that is important. Lots of ways to remove broken studs and screws without welding. You're on the right track with the LH drills. I've had fairly good luck with Easy-Outs. The trick is to use the right size. Too small and it will snap. Too large and the remaining screw will be thin enough that the Easy-Out will expand it. Kroil, PB Blaster and the other penetrants are a must. A hot alum solution will dissolve a steel screw without hurting the aluminum head. Eventually. It works better on taps, because the flutes allow it to work on the threads. EDM is great if you can get the part to a shop that has the equipment. John Martin |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"Nate Nagel" wrote: (clip) I haven't found an ez-out yet that works reliably. I usually end up drilling out the bolt almost to the threads and busting the swarf out with a bottom tap. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The drill and tap method works for me, too. I HAVE found that Snap-on extractors work well. They are not tapered. You drill with a drill that they provide, and then drive in a splined shaft. Then slip on a nut with a matching internal spline, that they also provide. Tapered easy-outs grip only at the top of the drilled hole. Snap-ons grip all the way to the bottom. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts.
For the highest success rate it is beset to follow this procedure, especially when removing a hard bolt from a softer surrounding material like aluminum. 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. 2. If this doesn't work grind the surface perpendicular to the bolt. 3. With a magnifying glass if you need one, punch the exact center of the bolt. Re-punch if you are off a bit. 4. Take a small drill and carefully without breaking the bit, drill a pilot hole. 5. Step up to a larger drill that you feel you will not break and adjust the drill location if necessary to make the hole exactly in the center. Drill all the way through the bolt if possible. 6. Now pick the correct size left hand drill, or drill/EZ out combination. If the bolt is bellow surface and uneven use steps three through six. Pay great attention to step three, four and five. |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
I didn't have a lot of faith in the "GRABIT" system till someone gave me
a set of them .. .. worked great. komobu wrote: Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
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#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:37:54 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote: komobu wrote: Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat I use quality HSS bits because a) I don't need to do this very often and b) HSS bits can be resharpened. I haven't found an ez-out yet that works reliably. I usually end up drilling out the bolt almost to the threads and busting the swarf out with a bottom tap. nate Saw an ad on the TV the other night....Gator something. A set of drill points on one end, and a matching easy out on the other. It was used to drill a conical cavity in screw heads, and the matching spiral easy out on the other end to remove the screwed up fastener. Anyone know if these are worth a ****? Gunner |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
http://www.bubbadeals.com/prograbit.html
This is what I saw on TV. That one seemed IRRC to have either 4 or 5 extractors in the set. Gunner |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? Oren It takes the place of a punch. Orient the engraver so that it pushes the perimeter, or whatever is available in a counterclockwise direction. This will only work if the bolt is not completely seized but just inaccessible. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
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#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
BillM wrote:
"komobu" wrote in message ... Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat My favorite method is to center up an oversize hex nut (3/8 nut on a 1/4 bolt etc.) over the broken remains, use a mig welder to weld the nut to the broken stud/bolt. Give it a shot of Kroil and unscrew. For small stuff drill a hole in some sheet metal, weld it to the screw, and weld a hex nut to the sheet metal. Lots of Kroil, maybe run it through a couple of heat/cool cycles, be patient. Works 90% + of the time. Bill Komobu said: "I had intended to say in the initial post that welding wasnt an option for me...I want to learn how to weld..." *If* you have access to an oxy-acetylene torch with a cutting head, but do not know how to weld, here is another handy-andy "hot wrench" trick. It won't work in every situation, it can be quite messy, and gooey gobs of red-hot sparks may fly in every direction. But sometimes it really works well and may be the only way and/or last resort. In general, the larger the diameter of the broken bolt, the better this works -- and not just for broken bolts, but for broken or seized fasteners of all kinds. Using a cutting torch head, adjust the oxygen and acetylene pressures as you would to cut a piece of flat steel of roughly the same thickness, or less, as the broken bolt's diameter. Heat the exposed area of the broken bolt as rapidly as possible. Speed is of the essence here, or you may end up welding the broken bolt to the surrounding material (which I have done, thank you). The thing to keep in mind is to prevent the broken bolt's surrounding material from approaching welding temperature. Once this surrounding material begins to glow, it is time to remove the torch, pause, and allow everything to cool down. Then, resume. When the broken bolt end is red-hot, blast away with the oxygen. This will vaporize the molten metal -- look out for red-hot molten metal blowback upon your person. Repeat as needed until all of the broken bolt has been vaporized. If the bolt was in a blind hole, you will have some slag to clean out. If the bolt hole goes through, you can chase out the larger bits of broken bolt by getting them red-hot also, and blasting away with the cutting torch head's oxygen. In either case, *remember to not allow the surrounding material to attain welding temperature*. Finally, run a tap in and out and the bolt hole should be as good as new. Well, almost as good as new... |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Lots of helpful ways here to do many types of bolts and screws. I have
found that each one is different. And even two of the same types of, say, bolts, the experience will be different. But I have found a few things that apply straight across the board, and I learned this at HKU. First: Look at the situation. Don't be in a rush. Sometimes the best way is the simplest. I have a lot of tools, and sometimes, I tend to overengineer. And sometimes the simplest is the fastest. If it don't work, you won't spend a lot of time on it before going to another strategy. Second: You will probably get one chance. It will screw up or it will come out. You'll fix it or you will ruin it. Make it a good shot. Third: LET PENETRANTS WORK. I recently had a turnbuckle that was frozen. I twisted the rod off in my hurry to get it off. Then I heated it with a MAPP torch, applied some 3 in 1 oil and turned off the light. Next day, I bought something like "Blaster" and hit it with some. About five minutes, I wiggled the Vise Grips that was clamped to the stump, and it moved freely. I don't think it was the Blaster, but letting the oil do its work and get sucked in. So, if you use penetrants, let them soak long enough to do their work. Last: Pay attention to your gut when it says, "It feels like if I twist this any farther, it will snap." 99% of the time, my gut was right. Steve |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Gunner Asch wrote:
http://www.bubbadeals.com/prograbit.html This is what I saw on TV. That one seemed IRRC to have either 4 or 5 extractors in the set. Gunner Saw that too! Looked pretty good. |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Oren wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:15:46 -0500, wrote: Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? Oren It takes the place of a punch. Orient the engraver so that it pushes the perimeter, or whatever is available in a counterclockwise direction. This will only work if the bolt is not completely seized but just inaccessible. Now ya got me thinking to use the engraver for the pilot starter ..reduce the wobble/walk of a small bit.. an avoid a punch (if possible) Then use the drill bits. Oren -- If you have one, I don't see why it wouldn't work. Or at least make a little dimple precisely in the middle so the punch doesn't skate off center when you whack it. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
YUP .. . got a set .. .. works great and comes with a lifetime warranty
against breakage .. .. .. Gunner Asch wrote: http://www.bubbadeals.com/prograbit.html This is what I saw on TV. That one seemed IRRC to have either 4 or 5 extractors in the set. Gunner |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
maxodyne wrote:
BillM wrote: "komobu" wrote in message ... Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat My favorite method is to center up an oversize hex nut (3/8 nut on a 1/4 bolt etc.) over the broken remains, use a mig welder to weld the nut to the broken stud/bolt. Give it a shot of Kroil and unscrew. For small stuff drill a hole in some sheet metal, weld it to the screw, and weld a hex nut to the sheet metal. Lots of Kroil, maybe run it through a couple of heat/cool cycles, be patient. Works 90% + of the time. Bill Komobu said: "I had intended to say in the initial post that welding wasnt an option for me...I want to learn how to weld..." *If* you have access to an oxy-acetylene torch with a cutting head, but do not know how to weld, here is another handy-andy "hot wrench" trick. It won't work in every situation, it can be quite messy, and gooey gobs of red-hot sparks may fly in every direction. But sometimes it really works well and may be the only way and/or last resort. In general, the larger the diameter of the broken bolt, the better this works -- and not just for broken bolts, but for broken or seized fasteners of all kinds. Using a cutting torch head, adjust the oxygen and acetylene pressures as you would to cut a piece of flat steel of roughly the same thickness, or less, as the broken bolt's diameter. Heat the exposed area of the broken bolt as rapidly as possible. Speed is of the essence here, or you may end up welding the broken bolt to the surrounding material (which I have done, thank you). The thing to keep in mind is to prevent the broken bolt's surrounding material from approaching welding temperature. Once this surrounding material begins to glow, it is time to remove the torch, pause, and allow everything to cool down. Then, resume. When the broken bolt end is red-hot, blast away with the oxygen. This will vaporize the molten metal -- look out for red-hot molten metal blowback upon your person. Repeat as needed until all of the broken bolt has been vaporized. If the bolt was in a blind hole, you will have some slag to clean out. If the bolt hole goes through, you can chase out the larger bits of broken bolt by getting them red-hot also, and blasting away with the cutting torch head's oxygen. In either case, *remember to not allow the surrounding material to attain welding temperature*. Finally, run a tap in and out and the bolt hole should be as good as new. Well, almost as good as new... This method takes "a touch" that I don't have... got a lovely Studebaker exhaust manifold with a melted flange to show for trying it guess I need to find something consumable to practice on, but drilling really isn't so bad. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Note that all the replies that suggest a Easy-out solution assume the
threads are not seized. Extractors are only usable if the bolt head is sheared or fatigue broken. If the bolt head broke off because the threads are seized,(and in Al with steel bolt, that's usually the case) attempting to extract will only result in breaking off an extremely hard extractor in the shank. If the threads are NOT seized, drilling all the way through the shank to the space behind it with a pilot bit will allow you to squirt a penatrant behind the threads, so it can work from both sides. Snap-On's straight flute extractors work the best of the lot. The most sure method, and the one I use the most ,if your skill level is up to it, is to drill the shank dead nuts on center to the thread's minor dia, and chase it out with a tap. JR Dweller in the cellar komobu wrote: Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? Thanks for any advice Pat -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:15:46 -0500, wrote: Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? Oren It takes the place of a punch. Orient the engraver so that it pushes the perimeter, or whatever is available in a counterclockwise direction. This will only work if the bolt is not completely seized but just inaccessible. Now ya got me thinking to use the engraver for the pilot starter ..reduce the wobble/walk of a small bit.. an avoid a punch (if possible) Then use the drill bits. Oren -- I have found that hitting the stub with a hammer, with or without a punch, as hard and as much as possible without destroying it often helps a great deal in freeing the bolt from the corrosion which locks it tight. If you can be lucky enough to drill the stub not quite all the way through, you can insert a punch into the hole and stretch the bottom of the stub. This will nearly always free it. Don Young |
#24
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message ... "Nate Nagel" wrote: (clip) I haven't found an ez-out yet that works reliably. I usually end up drilling out the bolt almost to the threads and busting the swarf out with a bottom tap. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The drill and tap method works for me, too. I HAVE found that Snap-on extractors work well. They are not tapered. You drill with a drill that they provide, and then drive in a splined shaft. Then slip on a nut with a matching internal spline, that they also provide. Tapered easy-outs grip only at the top of the drilled hole. Snap-ons grip all the way to the bottom. I have used those extractors for about 55 years with very good results. They don't get them all out but I don't try any other type of extractor if the bolt is so tight that it has twisted off. Ridgid also sells the same type of extractor. I consider the tapered spiral extractors pretty useless. Some of the newer short spline extractors look pretty promising but I have not used them. Don Young |
#25
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
Some bolts ain't gonna come out. Ever. For those, you may need to get
creative about drilling and tapping another hole nearby. When I twist off a fastener head, leaving a small stub sticking out, I have learned to NOT instantly grab the Vise-Grips. Because most of the time what happens when I do is that I crush the stub and it breaks off below the surface. Rather, I start with penetrating oil and I let it soak while I get out the MIG welder and cut up a piece of sheet steel about the size of a postage stamp as well as the No. 5 hand punch. I punch a hole in the sheet steel just large enough so the stub will fit through, then I use the MIG welder to weld the piece of sheet steel to the sheared-off fastener. Then I weld a nut to the piece of sheet steel, and use a wrench to gain a purchase. The combination of the penetrating oil, the heating/cooling of the welding, and the well-coupled torque via the welded nut will generally get it out if it's coming out. If I shear off the nut/sheet steel, then I start thinking about alternative holes. If it's an aluminum workpiece and steel fastener, then I can get out the product called "Tap Out" (which I buy at my local machine shop supply and have never been able to find online) which is a kit containing material to build a dam and a solution which will dissolve the steel fastener. If I'm going to try drilling down the axis of the stuck fastener, I'll use a left hand drill. I got a set of those in the easyout type kit I got from Craftsman. Of course, a left hand drill is rotating in the direction where if it binds up in the fastener the drill's torque might spin the fastener out. But some fasteners ain't coming out. Ever. Get over it. Grant -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On Dec 30, 11:39 am, komobu wrote:
I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Basically, Cobalt is the best, but you'll pay for it. Titanium is actually Titanium Nitride, which is a coating applied to regular HSS bits. Your best bet is to buy a complete screw extraction set from a quality manufacturer. In my autoshop, we do a lot of drilling out of all sorts of bolts, screws, and studs snapped off in engine blocks, rear axles, transmissions, and other parts. We have a set from Irwin with left hand cobalt drill bits from 1/16-1/2" by 1/64", 5 spiral screw extractors (the long ones that you use with a tap handle), and about 16 multispline extractors (the ones that are only about 1.5-2 diameters long, used with a 1/2" socket) New it cost about $250, but it has saved us thousands in scrapped parts. As an aside, if you don't have a close quarters drill that can be reversed, you should buy one. I find that many of the bolts that are snapped off are that way specifically because they are in close quarters or are awkward to reach, and therefore were pulled from the side, bent, etc. I have a 3/8" air drill that's less than 3" wide (the chuck is at right angles to the body of the tool), but it can't reverse to use the left hand drill bits. I use a close quarters electric drill that is reversible for my LH bits. Hope that helps |
#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On Dec 30, 2:03*pm, komobu wrote:
Thanks Bill; I had intended to say in the initial post that welding wasnt an option for me, but I failed to do so!!! I want to learn how to weld but that is another subject. What are you afraid of? It isn't neurosurgery. Harbor Freight has entry level MIG's at decent prices, and for the $$ you spend on one you'll save hours and hours of time that you would otherwise waste screwing around with drills, guide bushings 'easy (not) outs', busted taps and all the other hassles. Bill M is dead right on the technique. Personally, I have quite a few decades of auto repair work involving cylinder heads both high performance and stock. The oxyacetylene torch and the MIG rig are your friends, and you will find, as I did, that the time saving and quality of work is worth more than you realize. HTH Joe |
#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On 2007-12-30, komobu wrote:
Hi; Often I need to extract broken bolts / screws and am thinking about picking up some left handed drill bits. Usually I have to extract broken steel bolts and screws from aluminum heads and manifolds. Most often they are broke off clean and need to be drilled. When looking at drill bits to purchase, I see they are made of HSS, Cobalt and Titanium. What drill bit material is the best for staying sharp and long lasting life? Well ... first off -- they are *not* made of titanium, though some may list them as so made. What those are are (hopefully) HSS or Cobalt steel coated with Titanium Nitride (TiN) for longer wear life. I, personally, would go for the Cobalt steel, probably in screw machine length, and with split points. I don't see the TiN coating being any help in this -- it is more of a help in production machining of specific materials. *And* -- it often is used to try to make people think that poor steel bits are better than they really are. You can get TiN coatings on both excellent steel and total junk steel. (With some experience, you may become able to tell the difference by sight in many cases.) You'll be drilling tough bolts (thus the Cobalt steel) -- it is a bit better at cutting tough steels than plain HSS in my experience. You'll probably be drilling with a hand held electric drill motor, so the split points will offer two benefits: 1) It will be easier to start the holes without the bits walking. 2) It will reduce the force which you will need to apply to drill through, making it easier to control the drill and keep it properly aligned with the hole. Now the one thing which might argue for HSS instead of Cobalt steel is that for the smaller sizes, MSC wants to sell the bits in packages of 12, and in cobalt steel they get expensive rather rapidly. (It has been some time since I bought left-handed bits, but I recently bought some right-handed screw-machine length cobalts steel with split points to replace some lost out of an index of similar bits. (I found most of them on the floor, but about three seem to have run under the drill press and hidden with the swarf which has made its way there. :-( Anyway -- we were talking about $20.00 per size. -- Ouch! Also, please comment on grabit and other extracting methods. What do you think is the easiest way to remove a broken bolt? No experience with the grabit. The usual broken screw extractors work sometimes -- but are more likely to break in the screw, leaving you with something even harder to drill out -- which will probably need solid carbide bits. :-) Good Luck, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. I'll have to remember to try that next time I have that problem. :-) Enjoy -- and now "Happy New Year", DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"Joe" wrote in message ... On Dec 30, 2:03 pm, komobu wrote: Thanks Bill; I had intended to say in the initial post that welding wasnt an option for me, but I failed to do so!!! I want to learn how to weld but that is another subject. What are you afraid of? It isn't neurosurgery. Harbor Freight has entry level MIG's at decent prices, and for the $$ you spend on one you'll save hours and hours of time that you would otherwise waste screwing around with drills, guide bushings 'easy (not) outs', busted taps and all the other hassles. Bill M is dead right on the technique. Personally, I have quite a few decades of auto repair work involving cylinder heads both high performance and stock. The oxyacetylene torch and the MIG rig are your friends, and you will find, as I did, that the time saving and quality of work is worth more than you realize. HTH Joe HF welders make good boat anchors. If you're serious about learning to weld, you can find a used Lincoln or Miller for the same price and have a REAL welder. Steve |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. I'll have to remember to try that next time I have that problem. :-) Enjoy -- and now "Happy New Year", DoN. I have had several bolts break off flush, and could still be turned with just the point of an ice pick, or one of those little dental tools. A "buzzer" would impart a little force on there. Putting penetrant on there and leaving it sit surely wouldn't hurt. Critical points is that the threads are not boogered up, and that you put the point on the broken piece and keep it towards the center away from the threads. A lot of times, the break leaves a slight "shoulder" that the point can be pushed against. Steve |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
SteveB wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. I'll have to remember to try that next time I have that problem. :-) Enjoy -- and now "Happy New Year", DoN. I have had several bolts break off flush, and could still be turned with just the point of an ice pick, or one of those little dental tools. A "buzzer" would impart a little force on there. Putting penetrant on there and leaving it sit surely wouldn't hurt. Critical points is that the threads are not boogered up, and that you put the point on the broken piece and keep it towards the center away from the threads. A lot of times, the break leaves a slight "shoulder" that the point can be pushed against. Steve |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. In that case, what's the point of the vise grips? This suggestion needs more explanation to make any sense to me -- if the bolt is so bound as to have caused it to twist off in place, seems unlikely this is going to work -- although I've no such engraving tool, either. I'm the heat cycle kinda' guy, meself... I do like the idea of the tack-weld a new nut on -- now if I only had a MIG or wire-feed unit instead of (or in addition to) the stick... -- |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
"dpb" wrote in message ... DoN. Nichols wrote: On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. In that case, what's the point of the vise grips? This suggestion needs more explanation to make any sense to me -- if the bolt is so bound as to have caused it to twist off in place, seems unlikely this is going to work -- although I've no such engraving tool, either. I'm the heat cycle kinda' guy, meself... I do like the idea of the tack-weld a new nut on -- now if I only had a MIG or wire-feed unit instead of (or in addition to) the stick... Sometimes a bolt head will shear off because of sideways forces, and not be in the threads hard. Sometimes there is not enough sticking up to get a vise grip on there. I have had several that once you got it turned a couple of turns with an ice pick, you could get it the rest of the way out with your fingers. They're all different. Steve |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
SteveB wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 16:18:19 -0500, wrote: Any tool for extraction will work but it's the setup that counts. [ ... ] 1. If broken bolt is above surface grab it with vise grips, use a engraving tool to buzz it out, or turn it with a sharp punch. [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. I'll have to remember to try that next time I have that problem. :-) Enjoy -- and now "Happy New Year", DoN. I have had several bolts break off flush, and could still be turned with just the point of an ice pick, or one of those little dental tools. A "buzzer" would impart a little force on there. Putting penetrant on there and leaving it sit surely wouldn't hurt. Critical points is that the threads are not boogered up, and that you put the point on the broken piece and keep it towards the center away from the threads. A lot of times, the break leaves a slight "shoulder" that the point can be pushed against. Steve Yup, I've done that many times, usually using a piece of hardened steel shaft (actually often a broken "knockout pin" from a cold heading machine, because that was the type of machinery I was working on) ground to a fine point on a bench grinder and a 3 lb. hammer. A nail might work in a pinch although you'll undoubtedly ruin it - the modified knockout punch was reusable, so I only had to make one every couple months or so. That only works on bolts that have broken due to fatigue or overtightening though, not ones that snapped when loosening due to threads being seized. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
In that case, what's the point of the vise grips? This suggestion needs more explanation to make any sense to me -- if the bolt is so bound as to have caused it to twist off in place, seems unlikely this is going to work -- although I've no such engraving tool, either. Who's to say the bolt broke because of torque? |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking, alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
I have 3 broken taps in aluminum that I need to get out.
Could someone please expand on this advice? "A hot alum solution will dissolve a steel screw without hurting the aluminum head. Eventually. It works better on taps" So all I need to do is hop down to my local grocery store and buy some Alum, heat it up with water and let it sit over the broken taps? Any other advice is appreciated. Since these are taps made of hardended metal I don't think I can drill them out. I thought about taking a dreml tool and a sand off disk to notch them and try to use a flat headed screw driver to extract them. Thanks, Rolland |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
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#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.home.repair
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Extracting broken bolt / screw
On 2008-01-01, dpb wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote: On 2007-12-30, Oren wrote: [ ... ] Good post. I've never heard of the engraving tool trick. By "buzz it out", do you mean the vibration helps the bolt to turn easier? This is (I think) the kind of engraving tool which has a carbide point in an adjustable vibrator Something like a "Burgess Vibro-Graver". You place the point on an area away from the center of the broken bolt, but not too close to the threads, and angle it so is is driving both down into the bolt and CCW. This is likely to get the bolt out -- though to be honest, I've never tried it. In that case, what's the point of the vise grips? Certainly not for gripping a screw or bolt which has broken off flush. :-) This suggestion needs more explanation to make any sense to me -- if the bolt is so bound as to have caused it to twist off in place, seems unlikely this is going to work -- although I've no such engraving tool, either. *But* -- if the bolt has been overtorqued and broken from tension -- or what was bolted down got levered up to overtension the bolt, it would be likely to break off at the first thread outside the threaded hole -- since there would be no support there. Those bolts are more likely to work with the "buzzing out" approach. Certainly if it has rusted into its hole, and then broken off from torque when someone is trying to *remove* it, then the heat approach is more likely to work. I'm the heat cycle kinda' guy, meself... But I don't have a welder, so it is unlikely to work for *me*. :-) I do like the idea of the tack-weld a new nut on -- now if I only had a MIG or wire-feed unit instead of (or in addition to) the stick... Whenever I finally get a welder, I'm thinking of the Maxstar 140, which is both stick and Tig. I don't think that I'll need to weld anything larger than that. And the problem simply is finding one which I can afford at the moment. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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