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Default Dealing with Illegals

On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:
How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring

By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.

Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.

The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.

"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.

The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.

Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.

The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.

Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.

Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.

Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.

State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.

Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.

Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.

"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.

Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.

"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.

A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.

"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."

Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.

Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.

Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.

Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.

Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.

Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.



--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."

ted

http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

http://www.amren.com/ American Renaisssance

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Posts: 296
Default Dealing with Illegals

There's two less anyway!!

On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:
On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:





How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring


By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.


Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.


The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.


"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.


The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.


Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.


The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.


Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.


Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.


Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.


State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.


Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.


Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.


"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.


Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.


"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.


A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.


"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."


Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.


Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.


Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.


Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.


Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.


Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.




--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."

ted

http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News

http://www.amren.com/ American Renaisssance- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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Posts: 6,199
Default Dealing with Illegals

On Dec 8, 8:58�am, wrote:
There's two less anyway!!

On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:



On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:


How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring


By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.


Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.


The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.


"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.


The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.


Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.


The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.


Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.


Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.


Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.


State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.


Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.


Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.


"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.


Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.


"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.


A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.


"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."


Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.


Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.


Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.


Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.


Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.


Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.




--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************


Let us get back to basics with this premise: �"A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


ted


http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News


http://www.amren.com/American Renaisssance- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning
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Default Dealing with Illegals

Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


A reminder to anyone planning to reply to this thread: It is cross
posted to five newsgroups, and is only on-topic in, perhaps, one of
them. And since the message it's a reply to wasn't even in that one,
then it's a troll set up purely to get people angry, rather than to
explore the issues.

In my home newsgroup, this story may raise issues worth discussing.
But not in this tone. And definitely not in Nascar or College
Football. I apologize to those other newsgroups for stomping through
their rec.garden, but this reminder of trollness is sometimes
appropriate.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article , " wrote:

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning


Oh, bullsh*t. That isn't even remotely close to true.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

It happens that Greg Goss formulated :
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


A reminder to anyone planning to reply to this thread: It is cross
posted to five newsgroups, and is only on-topic in, perhaps, one of
them. And since the message it's a reply to wasn't even in that one,
then it's a troll set up purely to get people angry, rather than to
explore the issues.

In my home newsgroup, this story may raise issues worth discussing.
But not in this tone. And definitely not in Nascar or College
Football. I apologize to those other newsgroups for stomping through
their rec.garden, but this reminder of trollness is sometimes
appropriate.


Let me guess: Cecil Adams Fan

--

Yours,
Dan S.

Hire a vet! (or at least pay it lip service)


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Posts: 2,901
Default Dealing with Illegals

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:40:04 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning


I think the reason why there will be an effort to deport a lot of
these people is because of the construction slow down. It is like a
similar situation in the 30s. Suddenly we don't need all those little
brown guys who build most of the houses.



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=16981143


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Default Dealing with Illegals


Sure they do. Dont forget there are ,illions of spoiled teens who
might learn something from hard work!!!

On Dec 8, 11:40Â*am, " wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:58�am, wrote:





There's two less anyway!!


On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:


On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:


How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring


By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.


Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.


The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.


"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.


The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.


Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.


The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.


Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.


Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.


Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.


State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.


Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.


Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.


"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.


Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.


"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.


A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.


"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."


Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.


Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.


Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.


Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.


Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.


Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.




--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************


Let us get back to basics with this premise: �"A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


ted


http://www.newnation.org/NewNation News


http://www.amren.com/AmericanRenaisssance- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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Posts: 55
Default Dealing with Illegals

wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:58�am, wrote:
There's two less anyway!!

On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:



On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:
How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring
By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.
Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.
The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.
"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.
The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.
Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.
The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.
Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.
Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.
Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.
State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.
Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.
Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.
"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.
Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.
"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.
A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.
"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."
Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.
Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.
Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.
Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.
Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.
Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.

--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************
Let us get back to basics with this premise: �"A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."
ted
http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News
http://www.amren.com/American Renaisssance- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning



You are full of it. Why don't you cross, illegally, into Mexico and see
what happens.
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Posts: 11
Default Dealing with Illegals

presented the following explanation :
wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:58ïÿ½am, wrote:
There's two less anyway!!

On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:



On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:
How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a
burglary ring
By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the
back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.
Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting
was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from
his 12-guage shotgun.
The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about
the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.
"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will
turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena
Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to
determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.
The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been
deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.
Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30,
and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.
The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his
neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and
Customs Enforcement.
Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio
DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.
Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994
cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.
Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two
aliases.
Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the
Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.
State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who
lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.
Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took
from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.
Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about
the home or family before burglarizing it.
"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no
evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.
Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well.
Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.
"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday
night.
A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in
part, because the homeowners were immigrants.
"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were
easier victims."
Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.
Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East
subdivision.
Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show
that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.
Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends
and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.
Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling
protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.
Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this
report.

--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************
Let us get back to basics with this premise: ïÿ½"A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."
ted
http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News
http://www.amren.com/American Renaisssance- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -


despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning



You are full of it. Why don't you cross, illegally, into Mexico and see what
happens.


Cuando se cruza legalmente a México, son robar si los mozos creen que
no sabe cuanto es el peso al dollar cambio. So, what's your point?

--

Yours,
Dan S.

I'm NEVER wrong. Just ask me.




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Default Dealing with Illegals

already because of the illegal crackdown food has gone
unharvested.......

The US now imports much of its food, shall we go 100%?
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Default Dealing with Illegals

Jim Weeks wrote:
"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


NOOOO!!!! then I'd have to start cuttin' my own grass again..


jpw


I have a lawn company. I'll cut your grass. Oh wait a minute. You are a
racist and don't want Americans on your property.
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Default Dealing with Illegals


wrote in message news:O7C6j.240152$Fc.7261@attbi_s21...
Jim Weeks wrote:
"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


NOOOO!!!! then I'd have to start cuttin' my own grass again..


jpw

I have a lawn company. I'll cut your grass. Oh wait a minute. You are a
racist and don't want Americans on your property.


I know him, he's not a racist, but I on the other hand have been known to
speak my mind against spicks, jews, africans, mexican wet backs, gooks from
all countires, wops, japs, krauts, the ****ing pico commi *******s from
russier, and friggin carpet bagger yanquis.

Which one of these **** heads are you?

--
------MoParMaN------
---Scud Coordinates 32.61204 North 96.92989 West---
--Remove Clothes to Reply!--

TEDWARD Said:

Eggs are really good for you. They have all the nutrition needed to make a
chicken.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

The "we need the illegals to do jobs Americans won't do " is a myth.
Instead, they drive down wages, making many jobs unattractive to
Americans. Employers who hire them should be given the means to
identify illegals, then prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed and
shut down. Spineless politicians and unprincipled employers are the
culprits.

wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:58?am, wrote:
There's two less anyway!!

On Dec 8, 7:17 am, Ted wrote:



On Dec 7, 6:44 pm, Sir Frederick wrote:


How to deal with illegal alien invaders :
---------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5359290.html
Dec. 7, 2007, 7:00PM
Police say Horn shot 2 men in the back
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring


By CINDY HORSWELL
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


Two men suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home were shot in the back by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn after the suspects ventured
into his front yard, Pasadena police disclosed Friday.


Also, for the first time, investigators revealed the Nov. 14 shooting was witnessed by a plainclothes Pasadena detective, who had
pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-guage shotgun.


The detective's name was not released as the new details emerged about the controversial shootings that have outraged minority
activists but also brought an outpouring of support from others.


"We have now documented a summary of what we think happened. We will turn it over to the district attorney in a couple of weeks
after we finish our extensive quality control review," said Pasadena Police Department Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett. The Harris County
district attorney will then present the case to a grand jury to determine if any charges should be filed against Horn.


The suspects were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said.


Authorities have said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring
linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.


The two -- killed by Horn after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property -- were in the country illegally, according
to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.


Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He
ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.


Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett
said.


Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.


Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.


State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime
ring, Corbett said.


Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn
shot them.


Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.


"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and
suspects, Corbett said.


Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house
about four months ago.


"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.


A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.


"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."


Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.


Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.


Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont
Parkway.


Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists
and other neighbors.


Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is
trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.


Chronicle reporters Robert Crowe and Susan Carroll contributed to this report.




--
Frederick Martin McNeill
Poway, California, United States of America
/fmmcneill
**************************************
"A clever person solves a problem.
A wise person avoids it." -- Einstein
**************************************


Let us get back to basics with this premise: ?"A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


ted


http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News


http://www.amren.com/American Renaisssance- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning

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Default Dealing with Illegals


"shiite" wrote in message
...
The "we need the illegals to do jobs Americans won't do " is a myth.
Instead, they drive down wages, making many jobs unattractive to
Americans. Employers who hire them should be given the means to
identify illegals, then prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed and
shut down. Spineless politicians and unprincipled employers are the
culprits.


Correct.

If illegal workers werent so eager to do the crap jobs for almost no pay,
REAL workers might actually get a fair wage for these jobs.




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wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning


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wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning

Can we compromise then? And just deport the criminal half? There are a lot
of good illegals here, albeit they are here illegally. A lot would rather
go hungry than steal. The other side of the coin are those who would rather
steal than work. The hardworking moral half resemble my immigrant
grandparents. There's something very wrong when many of these illegals have
long police records, and are back out on the streets. Let's fly them back
to Mexico and drop them off from 5,000 feet.

Steve


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Cross posting to other groups snipped.

So, you just crossposted it to about eight groups, right?

Duh.


"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."


A reminder to anyone planning to reply to this thread: It is cross
posted to five newsgroups, and is only on-topic in, perhaps, one of
them. And since the message it's a reply to wasn't even in that one,
then it's a troll set up purely to get people angry, rather than to
explore the issues.

In my home newsgroup, this story may raise issues worth discussing.
But not in this tone. And definitely not in Nascar or College
Football. I apologize to those other newsgroups for stomping through
their rec.garden, but this reminder of trollness is sometimes
appropriate.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27



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Default Dealing with Illegals

SteveB wrote:
wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning


Sorry, but that's the line of the Chamber of Commerce and other big business
interest groups. They want to keep wages as low as possible. Pay a proper
wage and there won't be a lack of workers, period.

Can we compromise then?


Sure. All illegals can voluntarily leave America. They can line up, in their
own country, to obtain the needed documentation to temporarily come into
America to work.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Default Dealing with Illegals

MoParMaN wrote:
wrote in message news:O7C6j.240152$Fc.7261@attbi_s21...
Jim Weeks wrote:
"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."
NOOOO!!!! then I'd have to start cuttin' my own grass again..


jpw

I have a lawn company. I'll cut your grass. Oh wait a minute. You are a
racist and don't want Americans on your property.


I know him, he's not a racist, but I on the other hand have been known to
speak my mind against spicks, jews, africans, mexican wet backs, gooks from
all countires, wops, japs, krauts, the ****ing pico commi *******s from
russier, and friggin carpet bagger yanquis.

Which one of these **** heads are you?


Damn. It sounds like you and I are in the same race.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

Jim Weeks wrote:
wrote in message news:O7C6j.240152$Fc.7261@attbi_s21...
Jim Weeks wrote:
"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."
NOOOO!!!! then I'd have to start cuttin' my own grass again..


jpw

I have a lawn company. I'll cut your grass. Oh wait a minute. You are a
racist and don't want Americans on your property.


not so.. you can clean the pool.. dang mexicans just keep swimming across
it.

jpw


Do they leave an oil or bacon grease slick? Cause that costs extra to clean.
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Jim Weeks wrote:
wrote in message news:O7C6j.240152$Fc.7261@attbi_s21...
Jim Weeks wrote:
"Greg Goss" wrote in message
...
Ted wrote:


Let us get back to basics with this premise: "A good illegal alien is
a dead illegal alien."
NOOOO!!!! then I'd have to start cuttin' my own grass again..


jpw

I have a lawn company. I'll cut your grass. Oh wait a minute. You are a
racist and don't want Americans on your property.


not so.. you can clean the pool.. dang mexicans just keep swimming across
it.

jpw



Do they leave an oil or bacon grease slick? Cause that costs extra to
clean.
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Default Dealing with Illegals

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071208/D8TDDFLO0.html

Ariz. Immigration Law Challenge Tossed

Dec 8, 12:41 PM (ET)

By JACQUES BILLEAUD

PHOENIX (AP) - A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit seeking to
block a new Arizona law that prohibits people from hiring illegal
immigrants and requires businesses to verify whether applicants are
eligible for employment.

The law takes effect Jan. 1.

In his ruling on Friday, U.S. District Judge Neil V. Wake wrote that
the lawsuit was premature because there was no evidence that anybody
had been harmed, and that the plaintiffs - a coalition of business and
immigrant rights groups - were suing the wrong people.

The ruling said the law gives only investigatory authority to the
governor and state attorney general, who were named as defendants.
Wake said county prosecutors, who weren't defendants, actually have
the power to enforce the law.

The plaintiffs had asked for a preliminary injunction blocking the law
from taking effect.

Julie Pace, an attorney for the business groups, said her clients were
meeting Saturday to determine whether to appeal the ruling or file a
separate lawsuit against the county prosecutors. She said the business
groups could pursue both avenues.

Alfredo Gutierrez, a spokesman for immigrant rights groups, said they
plan to refile the lawsuit after Jan. 1, when they might be able to
show damages caused by the law.

A spokesman for Gov. Janet Napolitano said the governor's office had
not yet read the ruling and had no immediate comment.

Napolitano signed the bill in July, saying that while immigration is a
federal responsibility, Congress was apparently "incapable of coping
with the comprehensive immigration reforms our country needs."

The law is intended to curb Arizona's role as the busiest illegal
gateway into the country. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that
illegal immigrants account for one in 10 workers in the Arizona
economy.

Under the law, any business that is found to have knowingly hired an
illegal worker is subject to sanctions ranging from probation to a 10-
day suspension of its business licenses. A second violation would
bring permanent revocation of the license.

The plaintiffs in the lawsuit had argued the law was an
unconstitutional attempt by the state to regulate immigration, which
is the responsibility of the federal government. The judge's ruling
did not address that argument.

"He didn't uphold the law," Pace said. "He didn't decide if it was
constitutional. We can have that argument another day."

Attorneys for the state say the groups weren't reading the law
correctly and that it does not conflict with federal law.




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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article VpE6j.5689$jq2.5092@pd7urf1no,
"Noozer" wrote:

"shiite" wrote in message
...
The "we need the illegals to do jobs Americans won't do " is a myth.
Instead, they drive down wages, making many jobs unattractive to
Americans. Employers who hire them should be given the means to
identify illegals, then prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed and
shut down. Spineless politicians and unprincipled employers are the
culprits.


Correct.

If illegal workers werent so eager to do the crap jobs for almost no pay,
REAL workers might actually get a fair wage for these jobs.


God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.
Feel free to criticize those who subsidize the low cost of produce in
your markets. You, no doubt, worry about the smart Mexicans who can do
more than manual labor. They know modern measurements, the metric
system, grams, meters, liters. Personally, I like the Mexicans that I
have met and would like them for neighbors.

Your bitch isn't with those who do what they have to do to support their
families, it is with those who won't pay a decent living wage to REAL
workers, what ever that is supposed to mean. Mexicans, like the rest of
us, take what they can get.

God, you're stupid.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In
God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.


Gee you mean the poverty is entirely resting on subsidized corn. Who
knew that corn was so vastly employee intensive and so unviersally
lucrative. Immigrants wouldn't be flooding America if Mexico wasn't
corrupt, either. Why you think the Mexican government is in such a
frenzy every time we pretend we are going to do something about illegal
immigration? Much more multifactoral.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.
2. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegal-labor-subsidized
produce is also dead wrong. I will GLADLY pay more for produce in
order to return jobs to Americans.
3. That I worry about smart Mexicans is (guess what?) dead wrong.
Three dead-wrong assumptions out of three. I hope that your wish for
smart Mexican neighbors comes true. They'll have a stupid neighbor to
contend with.

Billy wrote:
In article VpE6j.5689$jq2.5092@pd7urf1no,
"Noozer" wrote:

"shiite" wrote in message
...
The "we need the illegals to do jobs Americans won't do " is a myth.
Instead, they drive down wages, making many jobs unattractive to
Americans. Employers who hire them should be given the means to
identify illegals, then prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed and
shut down. Spineless politicians and unprincipled employers are the
culprits.


Correct.

If illegal workers werent so eager to do the crap jobs for almost no pay,
REAL workers might actually get a fair wage for these jobs.


God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.
Feel free to criticize those who subsidize the low cost of produce in
your markets. You, no doubt, worry about the smart Mexicans who can do
more than manual labor. They know modern measurements, the metric
system, grams, meters, liters. Personally, I like the Mexicans that I
have met and would like them for neighbors.

Your bitch isn't with those who do what they have to do to support their
families, it is with those who won't pay a decent living wage to REAL
workers, what ever that is supposed to mean. Mexicans, like the rest of
us, take what they can get.

God, you're stupid.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars

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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning

Can we compromise then? And just deport the criminal half? There are a lot
of good illegals here, albeit they are here illegally. A lot would rather
go hungry than steal. The other side of the coin are those who would rather
steal than work. The hardworking moral half resemble my immigrant
grandparents. There's something very wrong when many of these illegals have
long police records, and are back out on the streets. Let's fly them back
to Mexico and drop them off from 5,000 feet.

Steve


That would be cruel & unusual. Just put them on a boat and send them to
the southern tip of Mexico. If the Mexicans don't like that, just drop
them off & let them swim the last 3 miles

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
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"nick hull" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning

Can we compromise then? And just deport the criminal half? There are a
lot
of good illegals here, albeit they are here illegally. A lot would
rather
go hungry than steal. The other side of the coin are those who would
rather
steal than work. The hardworking moral half resemble my immigrant
grandparents. There's something very wrong when many of these illegals
have
long police records, and are back out on the streets. Let's fly them
back
to Mexico and drop them off from 5,000 feet.

Steve


That would be cruel & unusual. Just put them on a boat and send them to
the southern tip of Mexico. If the Mexicans don't like that, just drop
them off & let them swim the last 3 miles


The only problem with that would be the recidivism rate in your group. :-)

Steve


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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article , " wrote:
already because of the illegal crackdown food has gone
unharvested.......


Cite, please?

The US now imports much of its food, shall we go 100%?


You're sadly misinformed.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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In article , "SteveB" wrote:

wrote

despite what many think if they were ALL suddendly removed from our
country, our economy would colapse. food unharvested, lots of menial
jobs undone. ikllegals help keep the wheels turning


Not even remotely close to the truth.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.


Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing what
they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them would fold
without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve compassion rather
than contempt?


2. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegal-labor-subsidized
produce is also dead wrong. I will GLADLY pay more for produce in
order to return jobs to Americans.


Top Raman is not produce. That, and what will be the effects on the
economy? When we pay more for produce, Starbucks everywhere will close
and those lucrative jobs are then lost, causing irreprable harm to
Strip Malls everywhere.


3. That I worry about smart Mexicans is (guess what?) dead wrong.
Three dead-wrong assumptions out of three. I hope that your wish for
smart Mexican neighbors comes true. They'll have a stupid neighbor to
contend with.

Billy wrote:
In article VpE6j.5689$jq2.5092@pd7urf1no,
"Noozer" wrote:

"shiite" wrote in message
...
The "we need the illegals to do jobs Americans won't do " is a myth.
Instead, they drive down wages, making many jobs unattractive to
Americans. Employers who hire them should be given the means to
identify illegals, then prosecuted, fined, and ultimately jailed and
shut down. Spineless politicians and unprincipled employers are the
culprits.

Correct.

If illegal workers werent so eager to do the crap jobs for almost no pay,
REAL workers might actually get a fair wage for these jobs.


God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.
Feel free to criticize those who subsidize the low cost of produce in
your markets. You, no doubt, worry about the smart Mexicans who can do
more than manual labor. They know modern measurements, the metric
system, grams, meters, liters. Personally, I like the Mexicans that I
have met and would like them for neighbors.

Your bitch isn't with those who do what they have to do to support their
families, it is with those who won't pay a decent living wage to REAL
workers, what ever that is supposed to mean. Mexicans, like the rest of
us, take what they can get.

God, you're stupid.
--

Billy

Bush & Cheney, Behind Bars


--

Yours,
Dan S.

Campaigning for Google rating stars, one smackdown at a time ... er,
uh, friendly encounter, rather.


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Default Dealing with Illegals

Dan S. wrote:
shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.


Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing
what they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them would
fold without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve compassion
rather than contempt?


That argument might apply to anything that a business chooses to do
illegally.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com



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Default Dealing with Illegals

In article ,
Dan S. wrote:

shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.


Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing what
they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them would fold
without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve compassion rather
than contempt?

Nope. This is illegal. If they can't survive without breaking the
law, they should go under. They could probably save a lot more money by
not paying their share of the property tax, which would then hurt
schools and local governments. Is that acceptable?
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Default Dealing with Illegals

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news
Dan S. wrote:
shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.


Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing
what they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them would
fold without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve compassion
rather than contempt?


That argument might apply to anything that a business chooses to do
illegally.



Is there any way you can find yourself among a small group of 16-18 year old
kids, and ask them if they'd be interested in working in 90 degree heat,
harvesting broccoli, swinging a sharp knife around near their ankles? Try
it. I did. It was enlightening.


If you're going to respond with something about how machines could do the
work, please don't. Machines can't harvest all types of crops (yet). If a
machine exists for a certain crop, most farmers will already own it if it
works well. Much less trouble than human beings.




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Default Dealing with Illegals

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In
God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.


Gee you mean the poverty is entirely resting on subsidized corn. Who
knew that corn was so vastly employee intensive and so unviersally
lucrative. Immigrants wouldn't be flooding America if Mexico wasn't
corrupt, either. Why you think the Mexican government is in such a
frenzy every time we pretend we are going to do something about illegal
immigration? Much more multifactoral.



I heard a speech by Ronald Reagan, or was it a supporter since I can't
seem to find the text anywhere, in the early 80's where he or they
commented that if the Mexican border were to be shut tight, that there
would be a revolution there in a matter of months. The border was left
porous as a safety valve to keep the corrupt Mexican government viable.
I simply wish I could find that text somewhere.
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Default Dealing with Illegals

Dan S. wrote:
shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from anywhere
doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who enable.


Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing what
they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them would fold
without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve compassion rather
than contempt?



I get along just fine with legal labor. I also pay my taxes and for the
fuel I use.
I'd love to see some of these companies who deliberately hire illegals,
go under. Most of them don't hire illegals to stay afloat. They hire
them so they can live higher on the hog than they deserve.
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Default Dealing with Illegals

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
news
Dan S. wrote:
shiite explained on 12/9/2007 :
Dear Captain Billy Non Sequitor,
1. Your assumptions about my attitude toward illegals, Mexican or
otherwise, are dead wrong. I have compassion for anyone from
anywhere doing what he can to survive.
My contempt is reserved for the politicians and employers who
enable.

Not to dumb down the argument too much, but aren't employers doing
what they can to survive and don't you believe a number of them
would fold without their immigrant help? Why don't they deserve
compassion rather than contempt?


That argument might apply to anything that a business chooses to do
illegally.



Is there any way you can find yourself among a small group of 16-18
year old kids, and ask them if they'd be interested in working in 90
degree heat, harvesting broccoli, swinging a sharp knife around near
their ankles? Try it. I did. It was enlightening.


My dad owned an apple and cherry orchard in central washington state. Hot,
dry climate. I worked cherry, apricot, pear and apple harvests in junior
high and high school, and while attending college. I dare say I'm far more
enlightened regarding agricultural labor and business than you are.

If you're going to respond with something about how machines could do
the work,...


Not an issue. The H-2B temporary visa program allows ag employers to bring
in as many laborers as are needed. The orchadists and farmers don't like the
program because it forces them to comply with the federal Migrant and
Seasonal Agricultural Worker Protection Act (MSPA). It requires proper
paperwork, bookeeping and recordkeeping, and costs much more money than
illegally hiring non-resident workers.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Default Dealing with Illegals

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:45:44 -0800, Billy
wrote:

In article VpE6j.5689$jq2.5092@pd7urf1no,
"Noozer" wrote:



God, you are stupid. If AMERICAN "subsidized" corn wasn't flooding
Mexico, more of these immigrants would have jobs in their own country.
Feel free to criticize those who subsidize the low cost of produce in
your markets. You, no doubt, worry about the smart Mexicans who can do
more than manual labor. They know modern measurements, the metric
system, grams, meters, liters. Personally, I like the Mexicans that I
have met and would like them for neighbors.

Your bitch isn't with those who do what they have to do to support their
families, it is with those who won't pay a decent living wage to REAL
workers, what ever that is supposed to mean. Mexicans, like the rest of
us, take what they can get.

God, you're stupid.


You think Mexican corn producers are not subsidized? How about $85 to
$102 per hectare?

A quick Look at U.S. and Mexican Corn Production

U.S. corn producer
Acerage of 270 hectares of land with one-third in corn.
Corn yield is approximately 8.5 metric tons per ha.

Mexican corn producer
Acerage of 10 hectares of land and 5 hectares for the small producers.
Corn yield is approximately 5.8 metric tons per ha if irrigated and
2.0 or less metric tons per ha if not irrigated.
Among the producers, 31% used improved seeds, 35% used a tractor and
9% have access to irrigation.

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----
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