Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

Hi,

I have three (3) Halogen bulb based High Hats that I installed for
hallway lighting off of a single 110VAC circuit.

One of them (#2) recently went dark. I assumed that the halogen bulb
had merely reached its end of life, so I went to replace the bulb.
Unfortunately, after replacing the bulb, it was still dark, so this
didn't fix the problem.

My concern is that I have an electrical problem further up the food
chain (and thus, more work to do to get this fixed).


First, the other two High Hats (#1 and #3) continued to work fine.

Second, my recollections are that I ran 110VAC to each High Hat, and
that each one (there's three of them) runs off of its own transformer
assembly.

Third, I don't know what brand the High Hats are. I also don't know
if this is important (eg, if it makes a big difference if I need to
replace a transformer, etc). Similarly, I don't know if a Halogen
based High Hat is one of those products that it ends up being cheaper/
easier to simply replace the entire High Hat assembly, rather than to
chase down the right repair parts, etc.

Enough background.

From here, my thoughts were to start with the easy stuff, before
getting out my multimeter,etc, finding out how easy it is to replace
transformers, etc, so I wanted to test to see if the new bulb that I
put into #2 was good or bad.

So I pulled the (new but dark) bulb/ring assembly out of High Hat #2
and pulled the same (good) bulb/ring assembly off of #1 and swapped
them (bulb/ring from #2 into HH#1, and bulb/ring from #1 into HH#2).

Lo and behold - - all three are now working again.


Okay, its "fixed" - but is it? What just happened? After all, I
kind of doubt that it was as simple as just a bad connection at the
bulb, so any suggestions or comments for possible causes of this odd
behavior? Or are the 12v Halogens notorious for making bad
connections and I've never heard about it?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to have just overlooked an
impending transformer and/or other sort of naughty wiring failure
(possible fire) that this action of proverbially "just wiggling the
wires" was all it took to conceal it for some time.



TIA,


-hh

Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

The problem with all MR-16 fixtures, is the intense heat at the bi-pin
ceramic socket. Once the socket overheats, it anneals the metal in the
socket causing a poor connection,which causes to heat more, and eventually
self destruct. Often you can install a new lamp and it will work for a short
while, then the pins will burn and it to will go out. The remedy is to
replace the socket. Some manufacturers like Lightolier have quick
disconnects on their sockets, knowing that they'll need to be replaced,
others will require a high temperature splicing device



"-hh" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have three (3) Halogen bulb based High Hats that I installed for
hallway lighting off of a single 110VAC circuit.

One of them (#2) recently went dark. I assumed that the halogen bulb
had merely reached its end of life, so I went to replace the bulb.
Unfortunately, after replacing the bulb, it was still dark, so this
didn't fix the problem.

My concern is that I have an electrical problem further up the food
chain (and thus, more work to do to get this fixed).


First, the other two High Hats (#1 and #3) continued to work fine.

Second, my recollections are that I ran 110VAC to each High Hat, and
that each one (there's three of them) runs off of its own transformer
assembly.

Third, I don't know what brand the High Hats are. I also don't know
if this is important (eg, if it makes a big difference if I need to
replace a transformer, etc). Similarly, I don't know if a Halogen
based High Hat is one of those products that it ends up being cheaper/
easier to simply replace the entire High Hat assembly, rather than to
chase down the right repair parts, etc.

Enough background.

From here, my thoughts were to start with the easy stuff, before
getting out my multimeter,etc, finding out how easy it is to replace
transformers, etc, so I wanted to test to see if the new bulb that I
put into #2 was good or bad.

So I pulled the (new but dark) bulb/ring assembly out of High Hat #2
and pulled the same (good) bulb/ring assembly off of #1 and swapped
them (bulb/ring from #2 into HH#1, and bulb/ring from #1 into HH#2).

Lo and behold - - all three are now working again.


Okay, its "fixed" - but is it? What just happened? After all, I
kind of doubt that it was as simple as just a bad connection at the
bulb, so any suggestions or comments for possible causes of this odd
behavior? Or are the 12v Halogens notorious for making bad
connections and I've never heard about it?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to have just overlooked an
impending transformer and/or other sort of naughty wiring failure
(possible fire) that this action of proverbially "just wiggling the
wires" was all it took to conceal it for some time.



TIA,


-hh

Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

"-hh" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have three (3) Halogen bulb based High Hats that I installed for
hallway lighting off of a single 110VAC circuit.

One of them (#2) recently went dark. I assumed that the halogen bulb
had merely reached its end of life, so I went to replace the bulb.
Unfortunately, after replacing the bulb, it was still dark, so this
didn't fix the problem.

My concern is that I have an electrical problem further up the food
chain (and thus, more work to do to get this fixed).


First, the other two High Hats (#1 and #3) continued to work fine.

Second, my recollections are that I ran 110VAC to each High Hat, and
that each one (there's three of them) runs off of its own transformer
assembly.

Third, I don't know what brand the High Hats are. I also don't know
if this is important (eg, if it makes a big difference if I need to
replace a transformer, etc). Similarly, I don't know if a Halogen
based High Hat is one of those products that it ends up being cheaper/
easier to simply replace the entire High Hat assembly, rather than to
chase down the right repair parts, etc.

Enough background.

From here, my thoughts were to start with the easy stuff, before
getting out my multimeter,etc, finding out how easy it is to replace
transformers, etc, so I wanted to test to see if the new bulb that I
put into #2 was good or bad.

So I pulled the (new but dark) bulb/ring assembly out of High Hat #2
and pulled the same (good) bulb/ring assembly off of #1 and swapped
them (bulb/ring from #2 into HH#1, and bulb/ring from #1 into HH#2).

Lo and behold - - all three are now working again.


Okay, its "fixed" - but is it? What just happened? After all, I
kind of doubt that it was as simple as just a bad connection at the
bulb, so any suggestions or comments for possible causes of this odd
behavior? Or are the 12v Halogens notorious for making bad
connections and I've never heard about it?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to have just overlooked an
impending transformer and/or other sort of naughty wiring failure
(possible fire) that this action of proverbially "just wiggling the
wires" was all it took to conceal it for some time.



Although they have a nice look I usually advise against low voltage. I
presume that you are using an MR16 bulb. The socket that those bulbs get
plugged into must be extremely tight. They should be so tight that you will
think that the bulb will not fit into the socket when you try to insert it
in. If they are not tight the socket will overheat and burn (No Flame)
over time and contact between socket and bulb will be lost. Your best
option is to get some new sockets and wire them in after the existing ones
fail. If this is a name brand lighting fixture it may be covered by a one
year warranty.

If you have a strong magnifying glass you can take a look at the lamp side
of the socket for any discoloration indicating heat has been present. You
can also look at the wires as they enter the base of the socket to see if
the insulation is beginning to melt or discolor.

I have purchased transformers to replace on these things, but found that it
is easier and maybe cheaper to buy a whole new fixture. The sockets should
be available online.

Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

On Dec 7, 3:19 pm, -hh wrote:
Hi,

I have three (3) Halogen bulb based High Hats that I installed for
hallway lighting off of a single 110VAC circuit.

One of them (#2) recently went dark. I assumed that the halogen bulb
had merely reached its end of life, so I went to replace the bulb.
Unfortunately, after replacing the bulb, it was still dark, so this
didn't fix the problem.

My concern is that I have an electrical problem further up the food
chain (and thus, more work to do to get this fixed).

First, the other two High Hats (#1 and #3) continued to work fine.

Second, my recollections are that I ran 110VAC to each High Hat, and
that each one (there's three of them) runs off of its own transformer
assembly.

Third, I don't know what brand the High Hats are. I also don't know
if this is important (eg, if it makes a big difference if I need to
replace a transformer, etc). Similarly, I don't know if a Halogen
based High Hat is one of those products that it ends up being cheaper/
easier to simply replace the entire High Hat assembly, rather than to
chase down the right repair parts, etc.

Enough background.

From here, my thoughts were to start with the easy stuff, before
getting out my multimeter,etc, finding out how easy it is to replace
transformers, etc, so I wanted to test to see if the new bulb that I
put into #2 was good or bad.

So I pulled the (new but dark) bulb/ring assembly out of High Hat #2
and pulled the same (good) bulb/ring assembly off of #1 and swapped
them (bulb/ring from #2 into HH#1, and bulb/ring from #1 into HH#2).

Lo and behold - - all three are now working again.

Okay, its "fixed" - but is it? What just happened? After all, I
kind of doubt that it was as simple as just a bad connection at the
bulb, so any suggestions or comments for possible causes of this odd
behavior? Or are the 12v Halogens notorious for making bad
connections and I've never heard about it?

The reason I ask is that I don't want to have just overlooked an
impending transformer and/or other sort of naughty wiring failure
(possible fire) that this action of proverbially "just wiggling the
wires" was all it took to conceal it for some time.

TIA,

-hh

It could also be a bad over-temperature cut out switch that finally
popped back. Halogens run pretty hot.

Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

Thanks for the comments, all.

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
The problem with all MR-16 fixtures, is the intense heat at the bi-pin
ceramic socket. Once the socket overheats, it anneals the metal in the
socket causing a poor connection,which causes to heat more, and eventually
self destruct. Often you can install a new lamp and it will work for a short
while, then the pins will burn and it to will go out.


So it sounds like that the additional insert/remove from my
troubleshooting exposed enough fresh metal to make a good contact.

The remedy is to
replace the socket. Some manufacturers like Lightolier have quick
disconnects on their sockets, knowing that they'll need to be replaced,
others will require a high temperature splicing device

Will keep it in mind. FWIW, these halogen high hats have now been in
service for 10 years; it kind of sounds like one shouldn't expect them
to have lasted so long without earlier troubles. :-)

Thanks again,


-hh

Odd problem with Halogen High Hat - troubleshooting
 

Just keep an eye on that fixture. If it goes out prematurely, replace the
socket





"-hh" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the comments, all.

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
The problem with all MR-16 fixtures, is the intense heat at the bi-pin
ceramic socket. Once the socket overheats, it anneals the metal in the
socket causing a poor connection,which causes to heat more, and
eventually
self destruct. Often you can install a new lamp and it will work for a
short
while, then the pins will burn and it to will go out.


So it sounds like that the additional insert/remove from my
troubleshooting exposed enough fresh metal to make a good contact.

The remedy is to
replace the socket. Some manufacturers like Lightolier have quick
disconnects on their sockets, knowing that they'll need to be replaced,
others will require a high temperature splicing device

Will keep it in mind. FWIW, these halogen high hats have now been in
service for 10 years; it kind of sounds like one shouldn't expect them
to have lasted so long without earlier troubles. :-)

Thanks again,


-hh