I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.

wrote:

....

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
....
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.

You should probably get some experienced help.

If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:
wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.


You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.


If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on the timer
switch and not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:17:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.


The 120v wall timer I have for my outdoor accent lighting goes through
an outdoor transformer. If I disconnect the transformer, the wall
timer loses its memory and must be reprogrammed. Once set, it works
well until we have a power outage. The timer uses a little power to
drive the clock.

Nice reply to someone trying to help you. There is no such switch as a "two
way" I suggest before you criticize anyone, learn some electrical basics,
then someone may be able to understand what you're talking about and help
you. Oh and loose the attitude



wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:
wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.


You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.


If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on the timer
switch and not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

On Nov 19, 6:27 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Nice reply to someone trying to help you. There is no such switch as a "two
way" I suggest before you criticize anyone, learn some electrical basics,
then someone may be able to understand what you're talking about and help
you. Oh and loose the attitude

Do not worry, if somebody confuses description of basic wiring and
lacks
ability to think logically he/she will not provide any useful help
anyway.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 19, 6:27 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Nice reply to someone trying to help you. There is no such switch as a
"two
way" I suggest before you criticize anyone, learn some electrical basics,
then someone may be able to understand what you're talking about and
help
you. Oh and loose the attitude

Do not worry, if somebody confuses description of basic wiring and
lacks
ability to think logically he/she will not provide any useful help
anyway.

Ya know, electrical issues usually get very helpful responses in this
newsgroup. The best thing you could do right now is be quiet, wait for
answers, and hope some potential respondents haven't seen your obnoxious
behavior.

wrote in message
...
I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.


What kind of bulb are you using?

On Nov 19, 6:17 pm, wrote:
I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.

Sounds like:
White to white. Not connected to anything else? This is the neutral or
un-switched lead through to the porch light.
Bare wire to bare wire (this is the grounding/safety wire) connected
to the metal box etc. and while there for safely connecting any metal
parts that one could come into contact with, does not under normal no-
fault conditions actually carry any of the electrcity to operate the
light/s.
The black wires 'to' and 'from' the switch. This single switch
controlling the flow of of electrcity through the live (black) lead to
the porch light (or lights?).
Please confirm the above. Have an idea what is happening with an
electronic timer such as this; but do you have a compact fluorescent
bulb in porch light?

On Nov 20, 9:25 am, terry wrote:
On Nov 19, 6:17 pm, wrote:





I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.

Sounds like:
White to white. Not connected to anything else? This is the neutral or
un-switched lead through to the porch light.
Bare wire to bare wire (this is the grounding/safety wire) connected
to the metal box etc. and while there for safely connecting any metal
parts that one could come into contact with, does not under normal no-
fault conditions actually carry any of the electrcity to operate the
light/s.
The black wires 'to' and 'from' the switch. This single switch
controlling the flow of of electrcity through the live (black) lead to
the porch light (or lights?).
Please confirm the above. Have an idea what is happening with an
electronic timer such as this; but do you have a compact fluorescent
bulb in porch light?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have to agree the original post was not clearly written; and we have
had enough discussion in this news group alone by those who have seen
previuos electrical work where neutrals were incorrectly tied to (or
even used) as grounds!

That's why my post above (#9) spells it our for confirmation by the
original poster. Also the use of the term "Two way switch" could be
confusing. It sounds as though it is simple ON-OFF switch. The term
two way sometimes being used for situations like the top and bottom of
stairs where 'two' switches can control lights on and off as one
ascends or descends!

However my suspicion; presuming the the poster IS in North America (or
perhaps some other country which uses similar wiring and from 100s if
not thousands of miles away, is that there is an electronic timer used
with a compact fluorescent bulb.

And that the OP is right. Yes there is 'leakage' as the OP likes to
call it and that leakage or small flow of current is part of the
necessary operation of the timer. If not in a simple two wire circuit
when the timer switch was off the timer would be off and would not
work at all!

The apparent incompatibility of the various devices being sold these
days often to make us 'more green' (or at least feel like it) is not
understood by those without technical background or training. Note 1.

Oddly replacing a porch light bulb with a compact fluorescent IS one
way of not wasting the surplus heat energy of a regular incandescent
bulb! A regular bulb wastes about 60% or more of its electrical input
as heat, not light. With an outside light? that heat is just wasted to
all outdoors.

BTW: A neighbour has gone to great trouble and some expense to change
his house lamps etc. to CFLs. He doesn't particularly like the light
quality of some of them; but his electrcity bill has hardly gone down
at all! What he/they don't realise is that the so called wasted heat
was contributing the warming/heating of their electrically heated
house!

Note 1: Even when some of these devices are apparently UL
(Underwriters Laboratory) or CSA (Canadian Standards Assoc.) labelled
that may merely mean they are safe 'when used as intended for the
purpose intended'. It doesn't mean they will automatically match with
every other device on the market.

On Nov 19, 5:26 pm, wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:

wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.

You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.



If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on the timer
switch and not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires are tied
together and not with each other.

No, your sentence does *not* say the "white wires are tied together,
and the bare wires are tied together and not with each other". That
may have been what you meant it say, and that may be what you *think*
it means, but physically, as written, with the combination of letters
you put together it *says* "The white wires and bare wires are tied
together". What it *says* is not even open to discussion. However,
how a reader might interpret the words could be.

I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:

"The white wires and bare wires are tied together"

"White wires" and "bare wires" are plural nouns and "are" is a plural
conjunction, thus it should be assumed that they are all tied
together. As there is no defining or clarifying clause in the
sentence, the only conclusion a reader can reach is that all of the
wires are tied together.

On Nov 20, 3:23 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:26 pm, wrote:





On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:

wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.

You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.

If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on thetimer switchand not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires are tied
together and not with each other.

No, your sentence does *not* say the "white wires are tied together,
and the bare wires are tied together and not with each other". That
may have been what you meant it say, and that may be what you *think*
it means, but physically, as written, with the combination of letters
you put together it *says* "The white wires and bare wires are tied
together". What it *says* is not even open to discussion. However,
how a reader might interpret the words could be.

I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:



I wrote "get some experienced help with reading" and for the slower
types like you it means "reading" and not "parsing" English sentence.

Reading includes the ability to understand the IMPLIED MEANING of
written words through REASONING and KNOWLEDGE
of the subject matter.

On Nov 20, 7:54 am, terry wrote:
On Nov 20, 9:25 am, terry wrote:





On Nov 19, 6:17 pm, wrote:

I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with atimer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when thetimer switchis in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought anothertimer switchof a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from thetimer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.

Sounds like:
White to white. Not connected to anything else? This is the neutral or
un-switched lead through to the porch light.
Bare wire to bare wire (this is the grounding/safety wire) connected
to the metal box etc. and while there for safely connecting any metal
parts that one could come into contact with, does not under normal no-
fault conditions actually carry any of the electrcity to operate the
light/s.
The black wires 'to' and 'from' the switch. This single switch
controlling the flow of of electrcity through the live (black) lead to
the porch light (or lights?).
Please confirm the above. Have an idea what is happening with an
electronic timer such as this; but do you have a compact fluorescent
bulb in porch light?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Have to agree the original post was not clearly written; and we have
had enough discussion in this news group alone by those who have seen
previuos electrical work where neutrals were incorrectly tied to (or
even used) as grounds!

That's why my post above (#9) spells it our for confirmation by the
original poster. Also the use of the term "Two way switch" could be
confusing. It sounds as though it is simple ON-OFF switch. The term
two way sometimes being used for situations like the top and bottom of
stairs where 'two' switches can control lights on and off as one
ascends or descends!

However my suspicion; presuming the the poster IS in North America (or
perhaps some other country which uses similar wiring and from 100s if
not thousands of miles away, is that there is an electronic timer used
with a compact fluorescent bulb.

And that the OP is right. Yes there is 'leakage' as the OP likes to
call it and that leakage or small flow of current is part of the
necessary operation of the timer. If not in a simple two wire circuit
when thetimer switchwas off the timer would be off and would not
work at all!


I checked the bulb, it is one of the energy saving variety, i.e. not
strictly incandescent but not fluorescent either. It uses the
same socket as incandescent.

I assumed that the switch timer would draw some small current
but I did not expect it would be big enough to make the bulb
flicker. I tried an incandescent bulb and it does not flicker.

Does anybody know of a switch timer that would use a standard
battery (min 6 months without replacement) and would operate
the patio light as a standard 2-way wall switch without drawing
any current??

wrote in message
...

[snip]

I assumed that the switch timer would draw some small current
but I did not expect it would be big enough to make the bulb
flicker. I tried an incandescent bulb and it does not flicker.

Does anybody know of a switch timer that would use a standard
battery (min 6 months without replacement) and would operate
the patio light as a standard 2-way wall switch without drawing
any current??

I replaced two bulbs in a ceiling fixture with CFLs. The light is
controlled by an X10 switch, and yes, the bulbs DO flicker slightly when the
power is turned off. But a VM shows no voltage at the sockets when the
switch is off. According to a knowledgable contact at a local lighting
showroom, the flickering is not uncommon with CFLs, and he suspects that it
is caused by EMI affecting the bulbs themself, outside of the normal
electrical circuitry. It may not be the timer that is causing your
effect --

wrote in message
...
I replaced a regular 2-way indoor switch that switches my outdoor
patio incandescent light on/off with a timer switch.

I followed the instructions and the timer works fine, The problem is
that when the timer switch is in the off position, the patio light
flickers
(with a very low light).

I bought another timer switch of a different brand, and the same
thing happens. Does it mean that all timer switches leak?

Both timer switches have a programmable electronic clock,
and use the same external wiring (black wire, blue wire,
red wire, ground/bare wire).

There is one thing. The regular 2-way switch did not use
the ground wire, it connected only two black wires.
The wiring behind the switch uses two 3-wire cables,
each cable has one black wire, one white wire, and one
bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,
and only the black wires go through the 2-way switch.
However, I did connect the bare wire from the timer switch
to the bare wires from the cables as the instructions
stated.



What is the brand and model number of the timer?

wrote in message
...

[snip]

Reading includes the ability to understand the IMPLIED MEANING of
written words through REASONING and KNOWLEDGE
of the subject matter.


OK - Can you help me understand this sentence, which comes at the end of an
insurance pitch on radio --

"Not available in all states, including South Carolina."

According to :
I checked the bulb, it is one of the energy saving variety, i.e. not
strictly incandescent but not fluorescent either. It uses the
same socket as incandescent.

It's probably a CF (compact fluorescent). Which is why it didn't
work right. These things aren't simple resistive devices, and
may behave erratically when fed too little power for continuous
full voltage operation. Eg: flashing.

Does anybody know of a switch timer that would use a standard
battery (min 6 months without replacement) and would operate
the patio light as a standard 2-way wall switch without drawing
any current??

I've never seen such a beast. It takes a fair amount of power
to switch, and you probably won't get enough lifetime on a battery.

Unless you can get a neutral to the switch (and go to a timer that
uses a neutral), or, switch to incandescent, you may be out of luck.

It is _possible_ that a dimmable CF bulb will behave properly because
they're designed for variable power levels. Dimmable CFs are newer, and
harder to find. Here's one list of dimmable CFs:

http://www.environmentaldefense.org/...e=0&feature1=1

Our Home Depot has dimmable R30s, R38s and R40s - which are all floods.
It may have other types, but I didn't see them.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On Nov 20, 5:21 pm, wrote:
On Nov 20, 3:23 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Nov 19, 5:26 pm, wrote:

On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:

wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.

You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.

If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on thetimer switchand not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires are tied
together and not with each other.

No, your sentence does *not* say the "white wires are tied together,
and the bare wires are tied together and not with each other". That
may have been what you meant it say, and that may be what you *think*
it means, but physically, as written, with the combination of letters
you put together it *says* "The white wires and bare wires are tied
together". What it *says* is not even open to discussion. However,
how a reader might interpret the words could be.

I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:

I wrote "get some experienced help with reading" and for the slower
types like you it means "reading" and not "parsing" English sentence.

Reading includes the ability to understand the IMPLIED MEANING of
written words through REASONING and KNOWLEDGE
of the subject matter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wouldn't it be easier to admit that you worded the statement
incorrectly instead of trying to back-pedal your way out of it?

Try typing this - you'll be amazed at how good it feels: My first post
was unclear. I apologize to those that I insulted after my error was
pointed out. I got defensive and my emotions got the better of me.

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:23:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

[snip]

It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires are tied
together and not with each other.

No, your sentence does *not* say the "white wires are tied together,
and the bare wires are tied together and not with each other". That
may have been what you meant it say, and that may be what you *think*
it means, but physically, as written, with the combination of letters
you put together it *says* "The white wires and bare wires are tied
together". What it *says* is not even open to discussion. However,
how a reader might interpret the words could be.

I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:

"The white wires and bare wires are tied together"

"White wires" and "bare wires" are plural nouns and "are" is a plural
conjunction, thus it should be assumed that they are all tied
together. As there is no defining or clarifying clause in the
sentence, the only conclusion a reader can reach is that all of the
wires are tied together.

I would interpret it the same way as that English teacher.
--
35 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:57:23 -0500, "JimR" wrote:


wrote in message
...

[snip]

Reading includes the ability to understand the IMPLIED MEANING of
written words through REASONING and KNOWLEDGE
of the subject matter.


OK - Can you help me understand this sentence, which comes at the end of an
insurance pitch on radio --

"Not available in all states, including South Carolina."



The first part seems to contain a very common error. The following
would make more sense:

"Unavailable in some states, including South Carolina."

Advertisers have something in mind, and it's NOT the understandability
of their claims.

It's something like saying "All cars are not red." when you mean "Not
all cars are red.". Think they're the same? Only the second allows my
red car to be real.
--
35 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

What a miserable fricking MORON you are! Presumably your inability to
phrase a third grade level sentence properly is inhibiting your
ability to understand basic wiring terminology and concepts.

I'd encourage your thankless ass to grab a hold of the bare end of the
white and neutral wires and have somebody hit the switch for you...

On Nov 19, 5:26 pm, wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:

wrote:

...

You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.


You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:

"The white wires and bare wires are tied together"

"White wires" and "bare wires" are plural nouns and "are" is a plural
conjunction, thus it should be assumed that they are all tied
together. As there is no defining or clarifying clause in the
sentence, the only conclusion a reader can reach is that all of the
wires are tied together.

Was this an English teacher at a government school?

In article
,
Jim Conway wrote:

What a miserable fricking MORON you are! Presumably your inability to
phrase a third grade level sentence properly is inhibiting your
ability to understand basic wiring terminology and concepts.

I'd encourage your thankless ass to grab a hold of the bare end of the
white and neutral wires and have somebody hit the switch for you...


Since you're a self-proclaimed non-moron, by implication, what do you
suppose the result of that experiment would be? Yeah, oops.

OOPS! My bad...:-( Should have read hot and ground.

However, unlike the original poster, I can admit when I write
something in error...

On Nov 21, 10:00 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
Jim Conway wrote:

What a miserable fricking MORON you are! Presumably your inability to
phrase a third grade level sentence properly is inhibiting your
ability to understand basic wiring terminology and concepts.

I'd encourage your thankless ass to grab a hold of the bare end of the
white and neutral wires and have somebody hit the switch for you...

Since you're a self-proclaimed non-moron, by implication, what do you
suppose the result of that experiment would be? Yeah, oops.

In article
,
Jim Conway wrote:

OOPS! My bad...:-( Should have read hot and ground.

However, unlike the original poster, I can admit when I write
something in error...


Agreed.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article
,
Jim Conway wrote:

OOPS! My bad...:-( Should have read hot and ground.

However, unlike the original poster, I can admit when I write
something in error...


Agreed.


His biggest mistake is not calling the manufacturer. Considering that the
brand he's most likely to find in stores is Intermatic, and they *do* make a
timer that handles compact fluorescents, you'd think he would've tried
calling their toll free number. The company's service is excellent. I fried
two of their timers a couple of years back using a 13 watt CF bulb. When I
called, they said they were aware of the problem, but didn't have a fix yet.
Last summer, out of the blue, I get a package with a nice note from the
company's president, and a new model designed to handle CF bulbs. It's doing
fine.

On Nov 20, 12:23 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Nov 19, 5:26 pm, wrote:



On Nov 19, 5:07 pm, M Q wrote:

wrote:

...

bare wire. The white wires and bare wires are tied together,

...
No. No. No.
You have something miswired. White wire should never be connected
to a bare wire except in the main panel.

You misread the sentence. It does NOT say white wires are tied with
bare wires. It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires
are tied
together and not with each other. Also, it says that I DID NOT TIE
them,
it implied they were ALREADY tied and this alone should give you a
CLUE that
you misread something.

If the timer does not have a neutral wire, or a separate power
source, such as a battery, then there will always be leakage,
as that is how it gets its power.

The sentence does not ask if to disconnect a bare wire from the
timer,
It asks whether the fact that the regular 2-way switch is NOT
connected to
the bare wire has something to do with the leak appear on the timer
switch and not the
regular 2-way switch.

You should probably get some experienced help with reading first.

It says white wires are tied together, and the bare wires are tied
together and not with each other.

No, your sentence does *not* say the "white wires are tied together,
and the bare wires are tied together and not with each other". That
may have been what you meant it say, and that may be what you *think*
it means, but physically, as written, with the combination of letters
you put together it *says* "The white wires and bare wires are tied
together". What it *says* is not even open to discussion. However,
how a reader might interpret the words could be.

I ran it past an English teacher at one of our local schools and here
is her reply:

"The white wires and bare wires are tied together"

The English teacher is a moron. Even though the sentence was not
grammatically correct, anyone with at least half a brain could have
figured out what it meant, and your an anal retentive dumb ass.

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:56:54 -0800 (PST), TH
wrote:

[snip]

"The white wires and bare wires are tied together"

The English teacher is a moron. Even though the sentence was not
grammatically correct, anyone with at least half a brain could have
figured out what it meant, and your an anal retentive dumb ass.

IF their imagination was similar to yours, and they made stuff up.
That statement "The white wires and bare wires are tied together"
either means they're ALL together, or needs clarification.
--
33 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin