I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

On Nov 18, 4:34�pm, car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. � I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. �It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

might cause hassles when its time to sell. definetely add ingress
egress windows, a brite space with windows adds more value than a
dungeon

wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 4:34?pm, car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. ? I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. ?It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

might cause hassles when its time to sell. definetely add ingress
egress windows, a brite space with windows adds more value than a
dungeon


Depends on who you sell your house to - someone planning to take up
kidnapping would prefer a windowless room.

We once viewed an extended bungalow in the UK where the owner had created a
central bedroom (surrounded on all sides by other rooms) without a window -
not even borrowed light from adjacent rooms.

We speculated quite a bit on the uses to which such a room could be put

This depends largely on rules and regulations in your local area. Where I
work, as an electrical contractor, many people don't want that sort of job
filed, generally for the tax reason. They do have to get it all legalized
when they go to sell the house, but more often then not, they save a pile of
money if they've lived in the house another ten years or so.


car crash" wrote in message
...
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

On Nov 18, 4:34?pm, car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. ? I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. ?It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Permit or not, do things according to code for your own safety. Permits are
a way of paying for the building inspector's salary. It may or may not
change your taxes depending on how your town does things for re-evaluation.
Where I live, they inspect every five years by an independent firm that does
that sort of thing.

If you were to poll the people in the parking lot at the home improvement
store, I'd bet very few would even know what a permit is, let alone get one.

car crash wrote:

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother.

What's your tolerance for risk? There's two potential negatives: One is that
your insurance company finds out about the work after the fact should you ever
make a claim and denies paying out as the work was not permitted and contributed
to the claim.

The other is that in most communities you are required by law to disclose any
unpermitted work when you go to sell the house. Should you not disclose and the
buyer discovers the work, they may choose to sue.

It will increase my taxes substantially and that's about it.

Says who? Assuming they are not load bearing walls, the only permit you would
likely need is for the electrical. Partition walls in the basement are not going
to change the value of your home in any significant way.

Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Which is immaterial to the question at hand...

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

there's no way i'd get one for that purpose. You'll only run into a bunch
of bs you don't really want (or need) to do, and drive your taxes up.

s


"car crash" wrote in message
...
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

since when does a finished basement not add to the value of the house???


steve


"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...

Says who? Assuming they are not load bearing walls, the only permit you
would
likely need is for the electrical. Partition walls in the basement are not
going
to change the value of your home in any significant way.

car crash wrote:

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.



Break the law or abide by the law? You want us to tell you what to do?
Your choice.

car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Where I live they changed the rules a few years back. Inside an
existing home they don't care what you do, but if you make a change
that effects the outside and in excess of $1,500 a permit is needed.

If it is required then you probably should.

Steve Barker wrote:
since when does a finished basement not add to the value of the house???


steve

There is finished, and there is typical DIY 'finished'. I looked at
probably 50-75 houses before I bought this place, and most of the
basement finishing was at best tolerable. For what I use a basement for,
I would have paid extra for bare wall-to-wall concrete- instead I have
this half-ass 1970-style mess. Walnut-stained cedar plank paneling on
two walls, faux wall beams and stucco on the others and the doors,
combined with a suspended ceiling and multi-color striped carpet with
God-knows-what living in it. Furnace room had carpet and drop ceiling
screwed to ductwork, and was finished out as a gun room/den. (I had to
take a sawzall and demolish one closet, and rip out all the ceiling
stuff, to make a road for the crew that replaced the furnace. Still need
to scrape the carpet residue off floor.) Can't decide if it is worth
hiring someone to rip it all out (my allergies and that carpet make the
work a non-starter for me.), or just ignore it and let the next owner
deal with it.

But as to getting a permit or not- depends on the area. Around here, I
wouldn't bother, since there is essentially no governmental inspection.
However, I grew up in the construction business, so anything I put in
would be code or better. And I always have plausible deniability, being
a short-term owner. ('damned if I know- it was like that when I bought
it...') Now if I lived in a more anal area, like much of New England,
I'd probably jump through all the hoops for self-protection.

aem sends...

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:34:06 -0800 (PST), car crash
wrote:

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Don't get the permit. When you go to jail, be sure to write us.

This post gets the idiot award of the month !!!!
At least if you are going to violate the law, dont tell the world.

Why dont you just steal an expensive car and park it at your local
police station parking lot so no one steals it from you........


This message wins ..........
*** IDIOT AWARD WINNER OF THE MONTH for NOVEMBER 2007 ***

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:34:06 -0800 (PST), car crash
wrote:

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

I was aprehensive when I did my basement, but the process was painless. Save
yourself some grief later and get the permits.

If the inspectors DO find something incorrect you can be sure that you'd be
best off to correct it now instead of later on when you don't remember just
how you built something, or aftere it's blocked by furniture, etc.

shebaaa wrote:

car crash wrote:

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Where I live they changed the rules a few years back. Inside an
existing home they don't care what you do, but if you make a change
that effects the outside and in excess of $1,500 a permit is needed.

If it is required then you probably should.

I live in condo-land, where any plumbing or electrical needs a permit.
Single family home owners need permits but can do work themselves unless
the home will be rented within a year. Guess they want to give
homeowners freedom to kill themselves but not prospective tenants. From
what I have seen DIYers do, it makes good sense.

Heres ANOTHER WAY to look at it

Home had water problem hired execvator to do work without permit didnt
want hassles.

excevator contractor did horrible job, I was ripped off, he effectvely
stole my money by not doing it right, put drain line on top of footer
rather than below, caused contiuning water troubles, I had to have
much of what he did redone, and didnt find out about line location
till later.......

then had interior french drain installed.. more money.

all preventable if jerk had been inspected.

its a hassle but just the fact their work is being inspected you get a
better job

"Steve Barker" wrote:

since when does a finished basement not add to the value of the house???

The OP didn't say he was doing a finished basement, he said he wanted to put up
two walls with electrical. Assuming he did pull an electrical permit, all an
inspector is going to see are studs and wires. What he does after that is his
own business.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

The OP said and i quote, "I want to finish my basement".

s


"Rick Blaine" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote:

since when does a finished basement not add to the value of the house???

The OP didn't say he was doing a finished basement, he said he wanted to
put up
two walls with electrical. Assuming he did pull an electrical permit, all
an
inspector is going to see are studs and wires. What he does after that is
his
own business.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

"car crash" wrote in message
...

I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

If you live in Ottawa, Ontario, you ought to know:
1. City property taxes are no longer specifically based
on inspection and assessment but via the Municipal
Property Assessment Corp., a creature of the Harris
government, http://www.mpac.ca/
2. MPAC reassessments are in abeyance pending
political review by the McGuinty government.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"Steve Barker" wrote:

The OP said and i quote, "I want to finish my basement".

Yep, you are correct - my mistake. Still, any permit in that case would only be
for electrical and any electrical inspection won't reveal the end state of the
basement. Bedrooms have a pretty strict legal definition and it's unlikely a
retrofit basement will meet those requirements, so you won't see much change in
the assessed value of the house.

It's one of those things like a built in pool, that if it's done properly, could
make the house sell faster, or if done poorly, sell slower, but not drive a big
price change.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

On Nov 18, 1:34 pm, car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

insurance-insurance-insurance
no permit on insurance.......
some thing goes wrong with what you do no insurance
if your house burns down because of what you did with no permit no
insurance.
so the final word is,stop paying insurance or get a permit.
its that simple
DIY-ing is fun, do it right & be safe

wrote:

I just bought a new insurance policy from a new company and when I
asked about the inspection, they said all they do is drive by and see
if there is really a house there. They never look at what is inside.

It's not about issuing a policy - almost any insurance company will do that
even without a driveby. They *like* collecting money.

The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially put
you into a fraud situation.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

Rick Blaine wrote:
wrote:

I just bought a new insurance policy from a new company and when I
asked about the inspection, they said all they do is drive by and see
if there is really a house there. They never look at what is inside.

It's not about issuing a policy - almost any insurance company will do that
even without a driveby. They *like* collecting money.

The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially put
you into a fraud situation.

Chuckle. Depends on the area. Not every permitting authority is a major
urban area with electronic or microfiche copies going back 75 years.
Around here, I think they keep permit paperwork for five years, or until
the file cabinet gets full, whichever comes first. Hell, they barely
keep property transfer records. And when they converted those to a GIS
record system, they apparently burned the old plat books.

But having said that- if you don't know what you are doing, you should
definitely have a pro and/or an inspector involved.

aem sends...

On Nov 22, 2:12 am, aemeijers wrote:
Rick Blaine wrote:
wrote:

I just bought a new insurance policy from a new company and when I
asked about the inspection, they said all they do is drive by and see
if there is really a house there. They never look at what is inside.

It's not about issuing a policy - almost any insurance company will do that
even without a driveby. They *like* collecting money.

The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially put
you into a fraud situation.

Chuckle. Depends on the area. Not every permitting authority is a major
urban area with electronic or microfiche copies going back 75 years.
Around here, I think they keep permit paperwork for five years, or until
the file cabinet gets full, whichever comes first. Hell, they barely
keep property transfer records. And when they converted those to a GIS
record system, they apparently burned the old plat books.

But having said that- if you don't know what you are doing, you should
definitely have a pro and/or an inspector involved.

aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

To which I will add, from an eastern Canadian province;

The second owner of a home not far from here in a small municipality a
few miles outside the provincial capital city, a municipality with few
rules for after initial construction work, had a nasty fire a few
years ago.

The owners son showed me the damage which had started in vicinity of
the electrical circuit breaker panel.

Seemingly the insurance company was most unhappy with the way a
previous owner had 'finished' the basement area. The fire situation
being aggravated by lack of fire blocking in the added finish walls
and some over the added basement ceiling work that almost guaranteed
that the fire would have had a horizontal 'chimney' to accelerate it
and increase the damage it did.

The local fire department had some difficulty putting it out, smoke
damage was extensive to whole house. Also judging by the time it took
the owner to have the damage repaired and move back, in the insurance
company did not cover all (or any?) of the cost.

Maybe an idea to watch 'Holmes on Homes' on Canadian TV channels. That
is of course about 'horror story' construction but gives some idea of
what NOT TO do!

car crash wrote:
I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.

Hmmm,
If you finish it w/o permit and if/when fire breaks out, your insurance
co. won't cover the resulting damage. I am in
Calgary and I got home owners DIY permit which includes electrical,
structural, plumbing inspection by city ispectors.
I guess it is upto you. I'd rather b on the safe side.

I have done almost all my own electrical work for years.
The only thing I will not do is direct wiring the the
box.

But 25+ years ago my nitwit brother-in-law finished his
attic and his basement and did all the work himself.
He was a cabinet maker so some of his work was excellent.

He asked for my advice on the electrical work. I told
him to use thick guage copper wiring and metal outlet
boxes, and to have an electrician inspect it before he
put up the sheetrock. He used thin guage aluminum wiring
and plastic boxes. Fortunately he did get a permit and
an electrician to sigm off on it.

He had a rough time with the insurance company when his
house burned down because the aluminum melted. But the
permit, the electrician signing off on it, and the approval
by a county inspector saved his ass.

Never cut corners on electricity!

Dick

wrote:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:34:06 -0800 (PST), car crash
wrote:


I want to finish my basement....I'm putting up 2 walls and some
electrical. I realize that by law I'm suppose to get a permit but
lots of people are telling me not to even bother. It will increase my
taxes substantially and that's about it.
Someone was telling me that in Ottawa about 50% don't get permits to
finish their basements.


I haven't lived or worked in Ottawa for twenty years ... but I believe
your local codes and practices are similar to those here in Calgary.

1) If you are required to get one, then why not? Unlike some U.S.
jurisdictions, the fees are low -- a hundred dollars or so for most
-- and the red tape is minimal. The inspectors tend to be helpful
rather than bureaucratic.

2) The notion that your taxes will increase sharply does not fit with
my experience. I do a couple of basements a month -- the increase
in taxes averages five to ten bucks a month.

3) There is some truth to the argument that unpermitted work could
create problems with an insurance claim.

4) Real estate has changed. Realtors are accountable not just for
what they know, but what they ought to know. They;ve become wary,
because most of them know very little about construction and codes.
Unpermitted work *should*, but may not , scare a buyer or his/her
realtor. Certainly, a home inspector would remark on it.



Ken.
Hmmm,
That is why when I had this house built, I had basement finished by the
builder. Last house I finished it myself with permit. It cost 15.00 then.

This paragraph is such bull****. I've never heard tell or seen any such
thing done after a fire or any other type claim.


steve


"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to
collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits
and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and
the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially
put
you into a fraud situation.


aem sends...

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:33:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

This paragraph is such bull****. I've never heard tell or seen any such
thing done after a fire or any other type claim.

Perhaps you personally haven't heard tell or seen such a thing done,
but it does happen.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to
collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits
and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and
the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially
put
you into a fraud situation.


aem sends...

Steve Barker wrote:
This paragraph is such bull****. I've never heard tell or seen any such
thing done after a fire or any other type claim.


steve


"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
The problem is when there's a fire or other major damage and you try to
collect
from them. The first thing the adjuster will do is pull all the permits
and
compare that to the evidence collected at the scene. Any discrepancy and
the
insurance company is legally entitled to refuse the claim and potentially
put
you into a fraud situation.

aem sends...


Careful with your cutting and pasting, please- you wrapped my name
around the part I didn't write. Just below the part you quoted, I was
also casting doubt on the ability to find the old permits, in many
jurisdictions.

aem sends...

"KLS" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 09:33:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

This paragraph is such bull****. I've never heard tell or seen any such
thing done after a fire or any other type claim.

Perhaps you personally haven't heard tell or seen such a thing done,
but it does happen.

Maybe, but I've only ever heard of this from a couple of newsgroup postings,
such as your. I'm not convinced from hearsay only.