I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?
Thanks in advance,
Mike

Before you start -- read your condominium contract -- in most condos you
cannot individually change doors, windows and open the walls as the
structure and exterior are not owned by the condo owner but by the condo
corporation. In many areas everything under the interior coat of paint is
part of the condo corporation and can only be changed by the board running
the condo.

wrote in message
...
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?
Thanks in advance,
Mike

On Nov 16, 5:43 pm, "
wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?

Depends on your definition of pain... You would basically be framing
an exact duplicate of the outside wall inside the room. 2x4s are the
smallest pieces of lumber you can get these days relatively straight,
so you'll end up with a 7" thick wall cavity and R25 insulation on the
exterior walls. That's more than the normal 5-1/2" wall cavity with
R19 insulation that's typical in upstate NY. Of course you can rip all
the 2x4s down to 2", but then they'll probably twist and warp, and
you'll have lots of slightly undersize 2x2s to throw away.

If you're going to rewire anyway, it's not so bad. Moving the existing
wiring to the new inner stud wall might be very painful.

For ultimate in noise and insulating properties, leave 1/2" in between
the two stud walls.

All the windows and doors will need special extension jambs for the
extra-thick exterior walls. They'll need to be custom made, most
likely.

On Nov 16, 7:07 pm, wrote:
On Nov 16, 5:43 pm, "

wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?

Depends on your definition of pain... You would basically be framing
an exact duplicate of the outside wall inside the room. 2x4s are the
smallest pieces of lumber you can get these days relatively straight,
so you'll end up with a 7" thick wall cavity and R25 insulation on the
exterior walls. That's more than the normal 5-1/2" wall cavity with
R19 insulation that's typical in upstate NY. Of course you can rip all
the 2x4s down to 2", but then they'll probably twist and warp, and
you'll have lots of slightly undersize 2x2s to throw away.

If you're going to rewire anyway, it's not so bad. Moving the existing
wiring to the new inner stud wall might be very painful.

For ultimate in noise and insulating properties, leave 1/2" in between
the two stud walls.

All the windows and doors will need special extension jambs for the
extra-thick exterior walls. They'll need to be custom made, most
likely.


I'm wondering why to change doors, windows and the HVAC system, which
sounds logical, requires opening up most or all of the walls. A few
things with this project come to mind:

As already suggested, make sure you understand where your individual
unit ends and the condo association responsibility begins. This is
spelled out in your Master Deed and Bylaws. In most cases, the
exterior walls are the associations responsibility. In some cases
doors, etc are too, or at least the choices as to what they look like
are controlled. I'd be very surprised if you could build out
exterior walls at a condo without association approval, which usually
wouldn't be given.

With some walls shared, I wouldn't expect making the walls thicker and
better insulated would result in enough energy savings to make it
economically feasible.

Before you sink a lot of money into this place, you should realize
that no matter how much you spend, there is a limit to how much more
your unit is going to be worth when you go to sell it as compared to
other units. Yes, you can get some premium, but if the other units
are selling for $200K, you're not likely to get $300K because you
spent a lot of money doing extra upgrades.

And when it comes time to sell, buyers are likely going to be a lot
more interested in what the kitchen looks like, which they will see,
than how many inchs of extra insulation you have in the walls.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 5:43 pm, "
wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?

Depends on your definition of pain... You would basically be framing
an exact duplicate of the outside wall inside the room. 2x4s are the
smallest pieces of lumber you can get these days relatively straight,
so you'll end up with a 7" thick wall cavity and R25 insulation on the
exterior walls. That's more than the normal 5-1/2" wall cavity with
R19 insulation that's typical in upstate NY. Of course you can rip all
the 2x4s down to 2", but then they'll probably twist and warp, and
you'll have lots of slightly undersize 2x2s to throw away.

If you're going to rewire anyway, it's not so bad. Moving the existing
wiring to the new inner stud wall might be very painful.

For ultimate in noise and insulating properties, leave 1/2" in between
the two stud walls.

All the windows and doors will need special extension jambs for the
extra-thick exterior walls. They'll need to be custom made, most
likely.


What I'm going to do to increase R Factor in my 2X4 walls(R11) is ripping
a half inch off 2X3 KD studs with my table saw and glueing and screwing them
to existing studs making them 2X6 walls and using 5 1/2" R 19 insulation and
poly vapor barrier.Was already re-wiring anyways....Total reno...

The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?

I remodelled a house once by firring the 2x4 walls out by nailing a
2x2 on top of each stud. Worked great, and yes it was worth it. It
yielded a stud cavity of 5" instead of 5 1/2, so I did lose a little R
value there, but the 2x2 is a painless way to add some thickness. If
I was doing it again, however, I'd add a layer of rigid insulation
instead of firring the studs. You will have to extend your window
jambs, move electrical boxes, potentially move radiators (if any),
etc.

wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Hmmm,
You can do things like on a condo unit. Talk to condo board first.
Living in condo is different from living own detached house.

On Nov 16, 8:50�pm, "benick" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Nov 16, 5:43 pm, "
wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. �You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. �All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. �(I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. �I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? �Is it worth it? �What are the issues with doing this?

Depends on your definition of pain... You would basically be framing
an exact duplicate of the outside wall inside the room. 2x4s are the
smallest pieces of lumber you can get these days relatively straight,
so you'll end up with a 7" thick wall cavity and R25 insulation on the
exterior walls. That's more than the normal 5-1/2" wall cavity with
R19 insulation that's typical in upstate NY. Of course you can rip all
the 2x4s down to 2", but then they'll probably twist and warp, and
you'll have lots of slightly undersize 2x2s to throw away.

If you're going to rewire anyway, it's not so bad. Moving the existing
wiring to the new inner stud wall might be very painful.

For ultimate in noise and insulating properties, leave 1/2" in between
the two stud walls.

All the windows and doors will need special extension jambs for the
extra-thick exterior walls. They'll need to be custom made, most
likely.

� What I'm going to do to increase R Factor in my 2X4 walls(R11) is ripping
a half inch off 2X3 KD studs with my table saw and glueing and screwing them
to existing studs making them 2X6 walls and using 5 1/2" R 19 insulation and
poly vapor barrier.Was already re-wiring anyways....Total reno...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

5.5 inches of closed cell foam in place is R6 per inch R 36 total and
requires no vapor barrier. plus it expands and fills behind and around
stuff, seals great which leads to no air infiltration thus much
quieter home.

wrote in message
...
On Nov 16, 8:50?pm, "benick" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Nov 16, 5:43 pm, "
wrote:
I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. ?You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. ?All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. ?(I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. ?I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? ?Is it worth it? ?What are the issues with doing this?

Depends on your definition of pain... You would basically be framing
an exact duplicate of the outside wall inside the room. 2x4s are the
smallest pieces of lumber you can get these days relatively straight,
so you'll end up with a 7" thick wall cavity and R25 insulation on the
exterior walls. That's more than the normal 5-1/2" wall cavity with
R19 insulation that's typical in upstate NY. Of course you can rip all
the 2x4s down to 2", but then they'll probably twist and warp, and
you'll have lots of slightly undersize 2x2s to throw away.

If you're going to rewire anyway, it's not so bad. Moving the existing
wiring to the new inner stud wall might be very painful.

For ultimate in noise and insulating properties, leave 1/2" in between
the two stud walls.

All the windows and doors will need special extension jambs for the
extra-thick exterior walls. They'll need to be custom made, most
likely.

? What I'm going to do to increase R Factor in my 2X4 walls(R11) is
ripping
a half inch off 2X3 KD studs with my table saw and glueing and screwing
them
to existing studs making them 2X6 walls and using 5 1/2" R 19 insulation
and
poly vapor barrier.Was already re-wiring anyways....Total reno...- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

5.5 inches of closed cell foam in place is R6 per inch R 36 total and
requires no vapor barrier. plus it expands and fills behind and around
stuff, seals great which leads to no air infiltration thus much
quieter home.

Yep , closed cell foam is VERY good (the best even) and also VERY expensive
to have installed. It's out of my price range plus I'm doing a room or two
at a time and living in the house so fumes would be an issue but it would
solve the OP problem the easiest and quickest way if money and fumes weren't
an issue.....

" wrote:

I am looking to remodel my condo unit, which was originally built as
cheap apartments for factory workers and college students. You can
imagine the shortcuts the builders took... the unit was built in 1970.
Anyway, I am planning on replacing windows, doors, and the HVAC
system. All (or most) of the walls will be completely opened up
anyway, and I may end up rewiring and replumbing, too. (I've got
friends who are licensed in these areas!)
The exterior walls (not the party walls shared with adjoining units)
are usually cold in winter and very warm in summer (upstate NY).
There is insulation, but the unit only has 2x4 walls. I was
wondering... is there a relatively painless way to increase the wall
thickness? Is it worth it? What are the issues with doing this?
Thanks in advance,
Mike

As everyone else noted, check the condo regulations. Also consider the
cost of the remodel, how long you expect to live there, falling market
values, and the small percentage of the investment you will likely
recover upon sale.

As for what I would do in that situation, I would go a simpler route and
install a layer of 2" rigid extruded polystyrene insulation board on the
inside before installing the new sheetrock. You gain the insulation
value of the 2" board, a thermal break from all the wall framing, and an
improved vapor barrier. You should be able to extend the electrical
forward using extension rings for the electrical boxes, which will be a
lot easier than relocating the boxes to new studs. I think it would give
you the greatest bang for the buck.

Thanks for all the replies...
As far as the condo board and regulations go - yes, I need approval
from the association, and I'll file a "variance" request outlining the
work, etc. However, I don't see a real problem here; I expect it will
be approved. I could be wrong, but I know the association fairly well
(people and rules), and I would be surprised if the request(s) were
rejected. There's nothing in the bylaws that explicitly prohibit the
work I'm looking to do (provided I get the variance approvals). I
will submit all the project request(s) at one time, though - that way,
I don't get working into my project plan only to find out along the
way that one part of it is not going to be permitted.
I appreciate the comments about payback - strictly speaking, this
project would be a "loser" financially. However, when I asked whether
such an endeavor was "worth it", I wasn't thinking in financial terms;
rather, I am interested in the amount of effort vs. comfort level (and
maintenance) of living in the unit.
It is nice to see that I'm not the only one who has faced this
situation. I'm going to look at using the rigid insulation board, as
well as talking to two contractors I know about building the walls
"in" (reducing the living area by a bit).
The possibility of having to use custom jambs is not exciting to me -
but, I'm redoing the doors and windows anyway, so if I must fashion
custom openings/jambs, it'll be done.
Regarding the "shared walls" - they're block walls with drywall glued
to them. They don't seem to be significant in the energy/comfort
problem at the moment, but I figure I can always build them in, too,
if necessary. I guess I'll want to determine whether I want to do
this before I finish the interior, though; this one remodeling
(rebuilding?) project is enough!
Thanks again for the feedback.
- Mike

insulating building in shared walls will be rewarded with quiet

although closed cell foam at R6 per inch can probably get you a much
improved R value without adding wall thickness. changing wall
thickness may cause headaches with bathrooms and kitchens.

replying to michael.young, OntarioJak wrote:
Michael - Rigid Insulation fastened to the existing studs, strap it, side it.
Done. Footprint won't change because you're not taking it right to the ground
- only foundation.

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