With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

Frank wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.

More, not less, would be my hypothesis. Individual devices may go down
somewhat, but I'd expect numbers of devices and other usage to exceed
that...

--

Around here new houses are putting in 400a. I can't imagine why anyone
would need that, or 4000sf for that matter.

"Frank" wrote in message
. ..
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:56:30 -0600, "Frank"
wrote:

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank


Depends on the size of the home and what electrical devices will be
used. Electric ranges, electric heating, electric water heating, and
Air conditioning are the biggest users. If you dont have much of
this, your basic lighting and appliances dont consume that much power.
The small uses have probably leveled off in recent years. Houses have
more lights, and more electric gadgets, but most of these things
consume less power. CF lights draw less, new tvs compared to the old
tube sets use much less, etc.... But when it comes to the big
consumers, like ranges and heating, etc. they still suck the power in
large amounts. 100A should handle the needs of most smallish average
homes without all the big consumers, but there are too many variables
to determine YOUR needs. You need to sit down and determine what you
will be running, and add up the power needs.

Frank wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.

If people were logical I'd expect them to stabilize around 200A for a
"medium" house. Bigger houses would of course require more.

We have a 1250 sq ft house and a 100A panel. Currently it's fine, but
if I ever wanted to add a 5HP cyclone and a big compressor I'd have to
upgrade the main panel. The actual service is 200A, so it would be
fairly straightforward to swap out the panel itself.

Chris

On Nov 6, 2:56 pm, "Frank" wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

I dont think that number will be decreasing for at least the next 30
years or so. It also depends on if natural gas is available locally
too. The "base metabolism" of homes is greater now, that is the
amount of current the house still eats up even though you think
everything is "turned off", wall warts draw constantly, embedded
computers inside smart switches draw constantly too, security cameras,
TV's in standby, etc. You only need the big amps for intermittent
items like AC, tools, etc. When really we're getting nicked and dimed
on the base usage.

Rather than reducing mains panel size, I would rather see the future
bring a parallel set of low-amp AC wiring with a new outlet standard
being powered by a local solar panel or other alternative source.
Then you could use those special outlets for all those wall warts and
things that draw low current constantly. A future TV set could
conceiveable have 2 power cords, one you plug into your current grid
outlet (for run time) and another you plug into your local outlet (for
quiescent power draw needs). Cell phone chargers, etc. could also go
local.

"Frank" wrote in message
. ..
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank


My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,

On Nov 6, 5:41 pm, " wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message

...

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,

With Ng heat and HW, If you want to Burn money put in what ever you as
a sucker are sold. With energy savings in mind and as the issue, 100a
is more than enough for all but the largest house and family to Zone
7. Put in more into design and insulation first.

The lighting load of an average house isn't going to mean a hill of beans to
your service size



"Frank" wrote in message
. ..
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting
and microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future
for power needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others
feel. Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,

Less than five dollars more.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 20:32:59 -0500, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

The lighting load of an average house isn't going to mean a hill of beans to
your service size

Energy Star appliance efficiency refers to relatively small savings by
redesigning the product so that it idles with minimal or no power
being drawn when it is not in use. (A modern TV, computer, or a
monitor is a good example). A Tivo Recorder will have a disc drive
that runs hot whether you are watching a recording or not, on the
other hand.

The amount energy star savings per household is very small and has
nothing to do with having 200A service capacity or some other
arbitrary number of service capacity.

However, if you multiply this small amount of energy savings per
household by all the households in your neighborhood, town, state or
on a countrywide basis, the savings are substantial and could amount
to one or more LESS full scale power plants. This is good for the
earth and so they say, what is good for the earth is good for you.

At the most, you will save a few bucks a year using energy star
products. If you convert from incandescent to CPF lamps you will
probably get some real savings.

Service capacity depends more on climate and square footage than
anything else. Homes in extreme cold and hot cliimates need more.
Wealthy people also need more (keeping that hot tub at 98F on a
24/7/365 basis, for example) Wealthy people have larger houses, which
cost more to heat and cool, keep the lawn watered, etc.

Beachcomber

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 15:41:17 -0800, "
wrote:

On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,

Is this the code these days, or is this just "more is better
thinking". I run a whole farm on a 200A service. I'm wired for 400A
but I only use one of the two 200A cartridge fuses on the pole box.
My house only has a 60A breaker, and one barn has a 100A, the garage
has a 100A and the other barn is only 30A fed from the garage, which
is right next door. I have never tripped a breaker yet, except when a
motor burned out. I'd hate to pay the bill for someone that actually
uses all 200A, and anyone needing 400A needs an extra job just to pay
the electric bill. Actual consumption is not always in accordance
with the "bigger is better thinking", which seems to be the rule these
days in most everything.

On Nov 6, 3:56 pm, "Frank" wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

Hi,

Sort of embarrasing to admit it, but we needed to have two 200 amp
panels. Note sure if the supply is 400 amps, probablly not .... don't
know... The panels are stuffed full of breakers too. I think I only
have maybe six slots open....

Best, Mike.

wrote:

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:56:30 -0600, "Frank"
wrote:

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank


Just as a little sanity check, a 60a average use works out to 10,368
kwh a month. At a dime a kwh you would have a thousand buck electric
bill.
I do understand some people may have some pretty big peak loads but I
still think, if you aren't Al Gore 200a is plenty for just about
anyone.

Even with large potential loads you rarely run into issues with a
"normal" 200A service. I have a 200A service and with electric heat,
clothes dryer, oven, welder and the usual lighting loads I could
theoretically peak at around 300A if everything were to hit at once, but
I've yet to have a problem.

Toller wrote:
Around here new houses are putting in 400a. I can't imagine why anyone
would need that, or 4000sf for that matter.


Around here 4,000sf was the minimum size new "house" that many builders
would build. From friends in real estate that size or larger is the
minimum for proper bragging rights and they couldn't sell houses that
were smaller. We comfortably raised a family in a third of that space.

RickH wrote:
On Nov 6, 2:56 pm, "Frank" wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

I dont think that number will be decreasing for at least the next 30
years or so. It also depends on if natural gas is available locally
too. The "base metabolism" of homes is greater now, that is the
amount of current the house still eats up even though you think
everything is "turned off", wall warts draw constantly, embedded
computers inside smart switches draw constantly too, security cameras,
TV's in standby, etc. You only need the big amps for intermittent
items like AC, tools, etc. When really we're getting nicked and dimed
on the base usage.


For sure, part of that is because people were told it is good to buy
cheap stuff so manufacturers use the absolute cheapest power
supplies/components possible. Efficient power supply designs are more
expensive.


Rather than reducing mains panel size, I would rather see the future
bring a parallel set of low-amp AC wiring with a new outlet standard
being powered by a local solar panel or other alternative source.
Then you could use those special outlets for all those wall warts and
things that draw low current constantly. A future TV set could
conceiveable have 2 power cords, one you plug into your current grid
outlet (for run time) and another you plug into your local outlet (for
quiescent power draw needs). Cell phone chargers, etc. could also go
local.

wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank
My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,


Why?, I did a load calc and 100A is plenty for our house.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting
and microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future
for power needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others
feel. Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum, and
costs little more than a 100 amps,

Less than five dollars more.

Just the wire to the house runs $150 in seattle for 200 amp. 150 amp is free.

Bob

"hobbes" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 6, 3:56 pm, "Frank" wrote:
With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting and
microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the future for power
needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others feel.
Frank

Hi,

Sort of embarrasing to admit it, but we needed to have two 200 amp
panels. Note sure if the supply is 400 amps, probablly not .... don't
know... The panels are stuffed full of breakers too. I think I only
have maybe six slots open....

Did you need them for the amperage or the breaker slots?

Bob

(Beachcomber) writes:

Energy Star appliance efficiency refers to relatively small savings by
redesigning the product so that it idles with minimal or no power
being drawn when it is not in use.

Not always small. Our new refrigerator is rated to use *less than
half* the energy per year that our old one (less than 20 years old)
consumed.

Dave

Bob F wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting
and microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the
future for power needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others
feel. Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum,
and costs little more than a 100 amps,

Less than five dollars more.

Just the wire to the house runs $150 in seattle for 200 amp. 150 amp
is free.

I meant the circuit-breaker box.

If you're electricity supplier is jerking you around on new wires, just call
'em up and ask for another (free) 150 amp service drop.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Bob F wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:22?pm, "J.A. Michel" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message

. ..

With all the movement towards energy star appliances, CFL lighting
and microwave infra red cooking what do you folks see in the
future for power needs for our homes? 200amp--100amp or less.
Might be a dumb thought but I am interested in how others
feel. Frank

My house is all-electric. 200A is a must.

if your considering a main panel replacement 200 amps is minimum,
and costs little more than a 100 amps,

Less than five dollars more.

Just the wire to the house runs $150 in seattle for 200 amp. 150 amp
is free.

I meant the circuit-breaker box.

If you're electricity supplier is jerking you around on new wires, just call
'em up and ask for another (free) 150 amp service drop.

Which they will happily connect to an additional meter, adding an additional
meter charge each month.

Bob

what about the houses that number in the tens of thousands in our area that
have a seperate meter for the electric heat? Or doesn't that count as a
'drop'?

s


wrote in message
...


Actually they won't. It is a violation of the National Electric Code.
A structure can only be served by one service drop with a very few
exceptions NEC 230.2

Steve Barker wrote:
what about the houses that number in the tens of thousands in our area that
have a seperate meter for the electric heat? Or doesn't that count as a
'drop'?

If its coming off the same set of lines from the power company, and just
metered separately, then it isn't a separate "drop".

Chris

I C. that's they way they are. Thanks.


s


"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
what about the houses that number in the tens of thousands in our area
that have a seperate meter for the electric heat? Or doesn't that count
as a 'drop'?

If its coming off the same set of lines from the power company, and just
metered separately, then it isn't a separate "drop".

Chris