I am changing a chipped 110V power receptacle in the kitchen. I thought I
spread
apart and left the wires apart demonstrating the original configuration.
There are a total of 6 wires run through this receptacle box: 2 white, 2
black, 1
red, and 1 bare. That is one more than 2 left, 2 right and 1 ground
When I put it back together, I had to screw the "sixth" wire (blk) to one
of the
side screws along with another wire, because the new (clean, unchipped)
replacement receptacle didn't
have the push-in connector on the back like the chipped original . I
plugged it in, and the 15A fuse
vaporized on the inside of it's glass. The 6 solid color, solid conductor
red, white, black and bare wires
were originally installed by an electrician. I could investigate further
details
about which individual colored wires are sheathed together, where they are
going to/from, or what else specifically is on the circuit, fluorescent
light or whatever. I also have a two prong lighting circuit tester to check
whats hot and not. So...

Note that these std. receptacles have a copper conductor plate that connects
the similar conductors of the top and bottom plugs together. As it was
broken apart on the original chipped plug I fatigued and split it apart on
the replacement. That was on the short prong, or right side. I must still
believe that the problem must have been with where I put the sixth wire. I
think I probably had the wires where they were before, and I should just try
putting the sixth wire on the other side (ther longer prong/ left side: the
unbroken conductor plate)


So the way I left it and the way I tried to re-wire the new plug was like
this. Viewd from front

white( | i) white (6th blk. wire blew fuse here)
^
broken plate oblack (sixth wire)
blk ( | i) red
^
L bare (ground)



Q Where does the sixth black wire go?
In all the confusion I forgot where the sixth (black) wire was. I think it
was on the top. If the other wiring is correct, and I believe it is, then I
have tried one of three possible positions, plus ground. Remember the right
side/ short blade conductor plate is /broken. My first (only) choice is to
try the other, unbroken side. The vaporized fuse scared me, and the HD guy
said my other wires are wrong.

QIs the wiring correct, or obviously messed up.



btw Is there a place to post a pic for this ng such as rec.woodworking has
a.b.p.w?




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"bent" wrote in message
...
I am changing a chipped 110V power receptacle in the kitchen. I thought I
spread
apart and left the wires apart demonstrating the original configuration.
There are a total of 6 wires run through this receptacle box: 2 white, 2
black, 1
red, and 1 bare. That is one more than 2 left, 2 right and 1 ground
When I put it back together, I had to screw the "sixth" wire (blk) to one
of the
side screws along with another wire, because the new (clean, unchipped)
replacement receptacle didn't
have the push-in connector on the back like the chipped original . I
plugged it in, and the 15A fuse
vaporized on the inside of it's glass. The 6 solid color, solid conductor
red, white, black and bare wires
were originally installed by an electrician. I could investigate further
details
about which individual colored wires are sheathed together, where they are
going to/from, or what else specifically is on the circuit, fluorescent
light or whatever. I also have a two prong lighting circuit tester to
check
whats hot and not. So...

Note that these std. receptacles have a copper conductor plate that
connects
the similar conductors of the top and bottom plugs together. As it was
broken apart on the original chipped plug I fatigued and split it apart on
the replacement. That was on the short prong, or right side. I must
still
believe that the problem must have been with where I put the sixth wire.
I
think I probably had the wires where they were before, and I should just
try
putting the sixth wire on the other side (ther longer prong/ left side:
the
unbroken conductor plate)

I try to take a digital photo before I undo anything; maybe next time.

It is impossible to know what you have from here. You have a switched
outlet, but the wiring could be many different things.
1) Do you have more than one switched outlet?
2) Look at the switch. What wires are there?

With answers to that I can tell you how to wire the outlet.
It is also possible, though unlikely, that there is no switch but the outlet
is wired to a multiwire circuit. And there is an even smaller possibility
that you have both a switch and a multiwire circuit.
And finally, you should have two bare wires; sure there isn't another one
somewhere?

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:19:08 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

[snip]

I try to take a digital photo before I undo anything; maybe next time.

It is impossible to know what you have from here. You have a switched
outlet, but the wiring could be many different things.
1) Do you have more than one switched outlet?
2) Look at the switch. What wires are there?

With answers to that I can tell you how to wire the outlet.
It is also possible, though unlikely, that there is no switch but the outlet
is wired to a multiwire circuit. And there is an even smaller possibility
that you have both a switch and a multiwire circuit.
And finally, you should have two bare wires; sure there isn't another one
somewhere?


The OP mentioned a fuse, suggesting older wiring. Maybe only a few
outlets have ground.
--
54 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

sorry.

there are two lines coming in. Contained in each:
1) blk/white/bare
2) blk/white/red/bare

and the single bare is a short wire from the screw in the rear where the
(two above noted) bare wires are screwed down together.

There is no switching afffecting this receptacle.



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the only fuse is the main fuse in the fuse box



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I believe I left the wires in the same locations as the 5 screws (2 left, 2
right, 1 ground). Then I found out the replacement plug didn't have rear
plug-in. I have since forgotten which ofg the four plug-ins in was. I
tried one, and of the other three: two are low (I think it was high). That
leaves the other side high. Does this correspond to the screw on the side.
On this side the connector plate is not broken.

QCan you tell me this:?
The four plug-ins must correspond to the four screws, right. either that,
or ground. There can't be anything else, right. It couldn't be ground, and
it couldn't be a magical combination.



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"bent" wrote
There is no switching afffecting this receptacle.

there may be a small fluorescent light (with its own on/off button) on it,
but there is no wall switch or another other switched light



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Yes, there is

"bent" wrote
there may be a small fluorescent light (with its own on/off button) on it,



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"bent" wrote in message
...
sorry.

there are two lines coming in. Contained in each:
1) blk/white/bare
2) blk/white/red/bare

and the single bare is a short wire from the screw in the rear where the
(two above noted) bare wires are screwed down together.

There is no switching afffecting this receptacle.

Okay, it probably a multiwire circuit. That is the only other possibility
if there is no switch. They are sometimes used in kitchens so you can plug
two coffee pots into the same outlet without blowing a fuse.
You have broken the connector between the brass colored terminals, but not
the one between the steel colored terminals; right?
There should be two fuses on this; did you blow one fuse or two? If only
one, then one circuit should still be live; be careful!
(I had a little trouble reading your original post, but if you touched the
black wire to the red wire in the line cable it would blow the fuse, as
would touching the red or black wires to the white wires.)

You want to attach both black wires to one brass colored terminal, and the
red wire to the other brass colored terminal.
Attach the white wires to the steel colored terminals.
Attach the bare wire to the green terminal, or if there is no green
terminal, to the one at the bottom.

To do this properly you could get an outlet that can accept more than one
wire, since attaching two to a single terminal is improper. However, if you
have a wire nut and some wire you can attach a short piece of wire to both
black wires and then put the other end of the wire on the terminal.

On 2007-11-01, bent wrote:

white ( | i) white (6th blk. wire blew fuse here)
^
broken plate o black (sixth wire)

black ( | i) red
^
L bare (ground)

First, you need to learn what the functions of all the wires are
before you start doing your own electrical work. You also need to
understand how this receptacle fits into the circuit(s) powering it,
i.e. where the cables leaving the box terminate.

With those caveats, here's a quick response: Bare = Equipment Ground,
White = Neutral, Black = Hot, and Red = "Other Hot". Red could be the
opposite phase of a multiwire branch circuit, or red could be the
switched hot of a switched circuit.

The large prong on the receptacle is the neutral, and only white wires
connect there. So you definitely have a dead short in the above
diagram, the whites should all be on the side of the large prong, and
the blacks and red should all be on the side of the small prong.

As to the arrangement of the two blacks and red on the small prong
side, that can only be determined by knowing what the function of the
different cables is. One can guess, though, that the cable with both
black and red is incoming power. Then these two hots go to opposite
halves of the duplex receptacle (top and bottom in your drawing), and
the interconnection plate needs to be removed (as you have already
done). As to the remaining black wire, it is a toss-up as to which
half of the duplex receptacle it is to be attached to. But this is
all speculation.

Cheers, Wayne

all please hang in there for another day or so. When I get a half hour I'm
going to investigate further and sketch a new DIA with W1 & W2, B1 & B2, R 1
or 2, G1 & G2 etc.



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On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 15:57:25 -0500, "bent" wrote:

the only fuse is the main fuse in the fuse box


Much of my teenage years were spent in a house built in 1969 which was
like that. Apparently, smaller breakers were in common use before
larger ones.

Such a house is still old enough that not everything is grounded.




[spam snipped]
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

On Nov 2, 11:23 am, "bent" wrote:
all please hang in there for another day or so. When I get a half hour I'm
going to investigate further and sketch a new DIA with W1 & W2, B1 & B2, R 1
or 2, G1 & G2 etc.

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I think we have a pretty good picture of what the wires look like: one
cable blk/red/white/bare, one blk/white/bare. To be sure about what's
going on, there's some other snooping that should be done:

First, figure out if there's another fuse in the panel that controls
one of the other wires to this box. If it's a multiwire circuit as we
suspect, the red and the black will be on separate fuses ... and they
*should* be on different legs, which in a two-column fuse box means
on opposite sides of the box, maybe even in a little two-fuse holder
so you can't remove one without the other. (On a breaker panel it
means two breakers one right above the other.)

Then see if another outlet or light fixture somewhere is also dead.
You haven't mentioned one, so it may be one you don't use a lot ... an
outdoor outlet, or one in some corner of the basement.

(See, our thinking is that this is a standard split-duplex receptacle,
pretty common in kitchens though no longer code in the US, with a
standard two-wire circuit feeding off it to another outlet or light.)

And finally take a note of how big the box is. To put this back
together "right" you should be making pigtails by joining short wires
to the ones that come into the box, so only one wire goes to each
screw on the outlet. But that's going to be a lot of marettes and if
it's a small old box they may not fit.

Chip C
Toronto

On 2007-11-04, Chip C wrote:

(See, our thinking is that this is a standard split-duplex
receptacle, pretty common in kitchens though no longer code in the
US, with a standard two-wire circuit feeding off it to another
outlet or light.)

Why do you say that a split-duplex receptacle on a multi-wire branch
circuit is no longer code in the US? I'm not aware of that.

To put this back together "right" you should be making pigtails by
joining short wires to the ones that come into the box, so only one
wire goes to each screw on the outlet.

Under the NEC, this is required for the neutral (grounded conductor)
on multi-wire branch circuits, but not for the hot (phase) conductors.
Many, of course, consider this good workmanship for all connections to
a receptacle.

Cheers, Wayne

On Nov 4, 4:56 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2007-11-04, Chip C wrote:

(See, our thinking is that this is a standard split-duplex
receptacle, pretty common in kitchens though no longer code in the
US, with a standard two-wire circuit feeding off it to another
outlet or light.)

Why do you say that a split-duplex receptacle on a multi-wire branch
circuit is no longer code in the US? I'm not aware of that.

I believe it's no longer code in *kitchens* in the US, where 20A GFCIs
are now required..sorry, I should have worded that better.

To put this back together "right" you should be making pigtails by
joining short wires to the ones that come into the box, so only one
wire goes to each screw on the outlet.

Under the NEC, this is required for the neutral (grounded conductor)
on multi-wire branch circuits, but not for the hot (phase) conductors.
Many, of course, consider this good workmanship for all connections to
a receptacle.

Aha, that makes sense, since loss of the hot path renders downstream
outlets safe, loss of the neutral renders them apparently dead but
still very dangerous.

However, I'll bet it's un-code to put two wires under one screw, and
with a split duplex, you've only got one screw per hot leg, so I think
that adds up to pigtails on whichever leg the OP uses to feed the
downstream circuit.

Are pigtails needed for the bare (ground-ING) conductor? Or is it good
enough to trap them all under the box screw?

Cheers, Wayne

Many thanks,

Chip C
Toronto

On 2007-11-05, Chip C wrote:

I believe it's no longer code in *kitchens* in the US, where 20A
GFCIs are now required..sorry, I should have worded that better.

Split circuit (multi-wire branch circuit) receptacles can still be
installed in a kitchen under the NEC, if you use a douple pole GFCI
breaker on the circuit.

However, I'll bet it's un-code to put two wires under one screw, and
with a split duplex, you've only got one screw per hot leg, so I
think that adds up to pigtails on whichever leg the OP uses to feed
the downstream circuit.

This is true for side-screw only receptacles, but back-plate
receptacles (not back-stab) that I have seen accept two wires per
plate, in addition to the side screws.

Are pigtails needed for the bare (ground-ING) conductor? Or is it
good enough to trap them all under the box screw?

Well, there is only a box screw if you use a metal box. :-) My gut
reaction is that the grounding screw on a metal box can have only one
wire under it. So a wirenut will be required for the EGC.

Cheers, Wayne