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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Oct 31, 8:30 am, http://www.thehvacmedic.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl
wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:20:58 -0700, wrote:
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.


Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.


I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.


Live and learn.


All Trane reps will offer a 5 or 10 year parts and labor warranty. Now
you know why.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The motors were redesigned a few years ago so they now last alot
longer, if you never need more than low speed , you were probably
oversized. The 10 yr warranty option should always be taken with vsdc
motor. Depending on your Kwh cost over the past years you likely
already have saved alot of the replacement cost on the motor from
electric savings, my payback on vsdc is maybe 6 years. You might
benefit from having a surge protector on your furnace and home, there
are alot of electronics in your furnace.

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

I looked at the electricity cost savings when selecting my Heil 2 stage
furnace in 2006, and the payback was just not there to justify a variable
speed DC motor on the much more expensive model. The slower blower speed on
the 2 stage Heil draws about the same current as the slowest speed on the VS
DC model, and neither runs at the higher speeds much / most of the time
anyway.

I felt the extra electronics and extra cost were liabilities, and went with
the 2 speed with an AC blower motor which switches taps when the higher
burner output is called for. This seems like a much better value and fewer
problems, in my opinion.

Perhaps the Trane has a different break-even / payback situation than the
Heil, but I doubt it.

Incidentally, I live in a part of the country where electricity cost is very
high, so my payback on a VSDC motor would have come quickly if in fact there
truly were a savings when the motors are compared at their slowest speed of
operation.

Smarty
"ransley" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 31, 8:30 am, http://www.thehvacmedic.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl
wrote:
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:20:58 -0700, wrote:
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.


Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.


I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.


Live and learn.


All Trane reps will offer a 5 or 10 year parts and labor warranty. Now
you know why.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The motors were redesigned a few years ago so they now last alot
longer, if you never need more than low speed , you were probably
oversized. The 10 yr warranty option should always be taken with vsdc
motor. Depending on your Kwh cost over the past years you likely
already have saved alot of the replacement cost on the motor from
electric savings, my payback on vsdc is maybe 6 years. You might
benefit from having a surge protector on your furnace and home, there
are alot of electronics in your furnace.





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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace


wrote in message
ps.com...
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.

My gas utility company offers a service plan that will cover just about
anything that can fail in the home heating or cooling system. Doesn't yours?
MLD


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Oct 31, 10:50 am, "MLD" wrote:
wrote in message

ps.com...



Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.


Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.


I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.


Live and learn.


My gas utility company offers a service plan that will cover just about
anything that can fail in the home heating or cooling system. Doesn't yours?
MLD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Low speed draw on a vsdc can be 90-110 watts, low speed draw of an
Alternating Current blower is around 350-375 watts of the same size,
that can be a large payback over years of summer and winter use.

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace


"ransley" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 31, 10:50 am, "MLD" wrote:
wrote in message

ps.com...



Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.


Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.


I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.


Live and learn.


My gas utility company offers a service plan that will cover just about
anything that can fail in the home heating or cooling system. Doesn't

yours?
MLD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Low speed draw on a vsdc can be 90-110 watts, low speed draw of an
Alternating Current blower is around 350-375 watts of the same size,
that can be a large payback over years of summer and winter use.


Quit whining the new blower is gonna pay for itself every 3 or 4 years......

--




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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Why didn't you purchase the 10 year extended warranty. It would have cost
you half of the motor and covered everything else on the furnace too.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz





wrote in message
ps.com...
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.



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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Oct 30, 10:20 pm, wrote:
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.


Ha, the worst furnace I ever owned was a new Trane (in my old house).
The best furnace I've had is my current Bryant, go figure. Maybe I
just got a lemon or maybe it was mis-adjusted, it short cycled
constantly in heat mode, made a loud "poof" whenver it lit up, pretty
scary, and my chimney condensate increased greatly after it was
installed dripping down wall under the clean out hatch, and needed
several repair calls. Whereas the Bryant has been one dependable and
quiet little workhorse.




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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Oct 31, 9:11 am, "Smarty" wrote:
I looked at the electricity cost savings when selecting my Heil 2 stage
furnace in 2006, and the payback was just not there to justify a variable
speed DC motor on the much more expensive model. The slower blower speed on
the 2 stage Heil draws about the same current as the slowest speed on the VS
DC model, and neither runs at the higher speeds much / most of the time
anyway.

I felt the extra electronics and extra cost were liabilities, and went with
the 2 speed with an AC blower motor which switches taps when the higher
burner output is called for. This seems like a much better value and fewer
problems, in my opinion.



THIS IS EXACTLY CORRECT!!!!

And the variable speed electronics create radio and TV interference as
well.

Mark

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

variable speed is supposed to add much in comfort while limiting
temperature swings.

that aone to me will make variable speed worthwhile, any electricity
savings is gravy.


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

RickH wrote:
On Oct 30, 10:20 pm, wrote:

Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.



Ha, the worst furnace I ever owned was a new Trane (in my old house).
The best furnace I've had is my current Bryant, go figure. Maybe I
just got a lemon or maybe it was mis-adjusted, it short cycled
constantly in heat mode, made a loud "poof" whenver it lit up, pretty
scary, and my chimney condensate increased greatly after it was
installed dripping down wall under the clean out hatch, and needed
several repair calls. Whereas the Bryant has been one dependable and
quiet little workhorse.


Hi,
Different installer!
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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Had you taken the extended warranty...
had a decent tech do a yearly check up...
or a pre warranty expiration check up...

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.
Take the blame off the mfgr & the climate & man up...

geothermaljones



wrote in message
ps.com...
Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.

Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.

I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.

Live and learn.



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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Oct 31, 1:31 pm, ransley wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:50 am, "MLD" wrote:





wrote in message


ups.com...


Yeah, the Trane is a great furnace until the motor goes out. I was
quoted $1000 plus labor to replace the motor. That's One Thousand
Dollars! Yow, that hurts. The disappointing thing is the motor
probably failed about 3 or 4 years ago... when it was still under
warranty. But we didn't notice that is was no longer capable of
anything but the low speed given the mild climate in Oregon. Now that
the motor works properly we can see that it hasn't been this way in
years. It was installed 7 years ago so no luck on the warranty. The
good new is that the replacement motor is guaranteed for a whole
year... One Whole Year! Wow.


Nothing Runs like a Trane wreck.


I wish I had done the due diligence seven years ago. There would
certainly not be a Trane in my basement today had I done so.


Live and learn.


My gas utility company offers a service plan that will cover just about
anything that can fail in the home heating or cooling system. Doesn't yours?
MLD- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Low speed draw on a vsdc can be 90-110 watts, low speed draw of an
Alternating Current blower is around 350-375 watts of the same size,
that can be a large payback over years of summer and winter use.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


and you get correspondingly fewer CFM...

A VSDC motor does not deliver more CFM per watt..

Mark



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The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Mark wrote:
The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark


Overall that type of furnace is a waste of money. A Plaything for those
that love gadgets. Overcomplication will bite us in the ass one
day..Especially since none of that stuff is made in America.


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace


"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:
The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark


Overall that type of furnace is a waste of money. A Plaything for those
that love gadgets. Overcomplication will bite us in the ass one
day..Especially since none of that stuff is made in America.


I guess Ft Smith, Arkansas is a foreign country??


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.




I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark


IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba


Which means more electric. Most electric in America is generated by
Natural gas turbines is is Government subsidized. The cost of Electric
is not cheap when full cost of production and transmission is
considered. A decent hybrid Wind generator is in the vicinity of $2
million per copy. Recapture of investment is based on Elwood financial
recovery theorum.. About 7 years etc. Price of Copper is creating
less windings in motors, thus creating more power/wattage to run them.
Has anyone else noted that large number of blower motor replacements
that are now fueling our service income? If Sammy in Washington keeps
screwing around with wasting our economy.. Well ..lets just say it may
be premature to scuttle your Number 10 Coal scoop. Corn burners are very
popular here. But they take a lot of electric to run them. Corn has to
be clean grade 2 and dried. Pellets will also work..But are expensive
to use in the northern climes. Big women have big boilers, and there
is a lot of heat in those big boilers. ;-p

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:00:34 -0600, Don Ocean
wrote:

Mark wrote:
The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark


Overall that type of furnace is a waste of money. A Plaything for those
that love gadgets. Overcomplication will bite us in the ass one
day..Especially since none of that stuff is made in America.



I agree. BTU is BTU and you need a finite amount to feel comfortable.
There is more than enough emprical data to properly size a furnace for
a particular sized house. If the furnace is undersized it turns on
and off too often and the noise is a nuisance. Frequent cycling may
wear out the rotating parts earlier. If its oversized the room temp
tends to overshoot before it shuts off. All the fine tuning
electronics control doesn't really improve anything since the house is
a pretty big heat reservoir that doesn't heat up or cool that quickly
to make a difference on our sense of comfort. The higher efficiency
comes from extracting the most heat from the flame and this is evident
from the lukewarm exhaust gas at the PVC vent pipe. Old model furnace
exhaust have metal vents that are too hot to touch and that's valuable
heat going up the chimney. Turning the fan motor on more sensitive
settings or at different speeds is unecessary gadgetry and equipment
cost.


I dislike the idea of a PCB in the hot environment of a furnace as
this cooks the board. That's a pretty good revenue stream for the
furnace manufacturer but is as best marginal to the operating
efficiency of the furnace.

I am highly suspicious of Trane as this company has an over aggressive
independent sales force of retired persons of authority such as a
school principal or a police officer. That induces trust and a
reluctance on the "hit" to ask hard questions. The sales force works
on commission and are not employees, not the ones I have met so far.
They can rattle off claims and figures from their sales brochure like
it is the best thing since sliced bread. But when asked about the
technical details they admit they know nothing of how the furnace
works - that how come the exhaust is so much cooler - and on what
basis does it decide to run or not run the furnace at their
"efficiency" settings. I can't imagine anyone in any trade not being
curious about the inner workings of what they sell especially when
they were senior authorities in their previous jobs (aka not dumb).
But since their protestations of technical ignorance is so uniform
across all their sales reps I believe its Trane's company policy to
them to deny knowledge. To answer such questions would open up a can
of worms.

Go to a HVAC supplies shop to see how a high efficiency furnace is
constructed. Have an idea of how it is different from the older
designs. Then buy one that is similarly constructed and buy the
cheapest and simplest model of a specified BTU output. There is no
such thing as using inferior materials to make a bigger profit. All
furnaces must use specific materials for the critical parts like the
heat exchangers or face regulatory and financial ruin on many levels
should they turn out to be inferior and faulty. There is no new
technology in sensors or motors or materials which are sourced from
the same outside manufacturers anyway. There are no technical
breaktroughs that will differentiate one manufacturer's high
efficiency furnace from another. They are all designed to last 20
years if not more without fuss. If you disagree do tell me in which
area can a "cheap" manufacturer skim on to make the extra profit? Or
where Trane can add value worth several hundred bucks more.



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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Nov 4, 8:36 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.


I doubt it...got anything to back that up?


Mark


IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba


Putting a conventional multi-speed motor on low speed gives the same
savings without the complicated expensive failure prone radio
interering electronics.


Mark


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace


"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 4, 8:36 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.


I doubt it...got anything to back that up?


Mark


IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba


Putting a conventional multi-speed motor on low speed gives the same
savings without the complicated expensive failure prone radio
interering electronics.


Gee.... I don't seem to have a problem with RFI, nor do any customers I have
installed new systems for.....several of which are also HAM radio operators.

73
DE N6OJN


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Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:12:23 -0600, Don Ocean
wrote:

Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.




I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark
IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba

Which means more electric. Most electric in America is generated by
Natural gas turbines is is Government subsidized. The cost of Electric
is not cheap when full cost of production and transmission is
considered. A decent hybrid Wind generator is in the vicinity of $2
million per copy. Recapture of investment is based on Elwood financial
recovery theorum.. About 7 years etc. Price of Copper is creating
less windings in motors, thus creating more power/wattage to run them.
Has anyone else noted that large number of blower motor replacements
that are now fueling our service income? If Sammy in Washington keeps
screwing around with wasting our economy.. Well ..lets just say it may
be premature to scuttle your Number 10 Coal scoop. Corn burners are very
popular here. But they take a lot of electric to run them. Corn has to
be clean grade 2 and dried. Pellets will also work..But are expensive
to use in the northern climes. Big women have big boilers, and there
is a lot of heat in those big boilers. ;-p


Well, we could all hop on our bicycle or horse and buggy and head off
to work, the grocery store and all those soccer games instead of using
our gas guzzling suv's too. We could all turn off all those electric
lights to see by and use candles. Maybe unplug that refrigerator?
Believe me, Id love to have a windmill or solar panel array that keeps
me from paying the utility company every month. Id love to fill my gas
tank with water or some magic hydrogen or radioactive pellet and drive
forever. Until that day becomes a feasible reality, I guess I'll just
be stuck doing it the way all the rest of the world does.
By the way, I love my variable speed and when it croaks I'll replace
it with another. Im not 18 anymore. I'll take all the creature
comforts, whistles, bells and buttons that make my life easier and
more comfortable. Besides, buying more "things" is what keeps the
economy going. How are you going to earn a living if those variable
speeds dont break? :-P
Bubba


I sure hope Sammy in Washington keeps the energy flowing for all these
toys. But it would be premature to bet on it. As for me to continue to
make a living.. I already made a sufficient sum to last me until I am
Ninety. After that I will probably have to Purchase and run a
Whorehouse/Bar for sustenance. ;-p

As for the Economy being fueled by purchasing.. Keep in mind the things
you are purchasing are made in Mexico, China, Taiwan Bangladesh...etc.
The Euro now costs $1.43 USD. Oil is all going to Euro's Even the
handouts we give the Jews are being demanded to be in Euro's. American
basic economies are being fueled by farm exports.. We just got slammed
with large tariffs for subsidizing corn exports and several other
things. Which of course even makes the inflated values worse in America.
The Average family got a $55/mo increase in groceries over the summer.
The illegal Federal Reserve is even faltering. So the "What Me Worry?"
slogan just doesn't cut it. And why are we posting to alt.home.repair..
I thought we had a secret handshake in order to view these pearls of
wisdom? ;-D
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Mark wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:36 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.
I doubt it...got anything to back that up?
Mark

IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba


Putting a conventional multi-speed motor on low speed gives the same
savings without the complicated expensive failure prone radio
interering electronics.


Mark



Agreed.. But..But...You have to manually set it. My Gawd..
the horror of such! Manual labor? ;-p


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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Noon-Air wrote:
"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:
The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.




I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark

Overall that type of furnace is a waste of money. A Plaything for those
that love gadgets. Overcomplication will bite us in the ass one
day..Especially since none of that stuff is made in America.


I guess Ft Smith, Arkansas is a foreign country??


The controls and motor are Mexican made, Steve.

And I have sometimes suspected that Fort Smith and Fayettesvelle were to
not totally of this planet even. ;-p When was the last time you bought
an American water heater.. Or a Goodman that was made in America that is
manufactured by either illegals or green card carriers.





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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Don Ocean wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:36 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.
I doubt it...got anything to back that up?
Mark
IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba


Putting a conventional multi-speed motor on low speed gives the same
savings without the complicated expensive failure prone radio
interering electronics.


Mark



Agreed.. But..But...You have to manually set it. My Gawd..
the horror of such! Manual labor? ;-p


When you have Manual labor, does that mean you have to pay Manual's taxes
too?

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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Zyp wrote:
Don Ocean wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Nov 4, 8:36 pm, Bubba wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:16:35 -0800, Mark wrote:

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.
I doubt it...got anything to back that up?
Mark
IF the customer is running the fan constantly, Id bet its easily
saving that much.
Bubba
Putting a conventional multi-speed motor on low speed gives the same
savings without the complicated expensive failure prone radio
interering electronics.


Mark


Agreed.. But..But...You have to manually set it. My Gawd..
the horror of such! Manual labor? ;-p


When you have Manual labor, does that mean you have to pay Manual's taxes
too?


Not if you call La Imigre before payday.



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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 06:56:42 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:



I agree. BTU is BTU and you need a finite amount to feel comfortable.
There is more than enough emprical data to properly size a furnace for
a particular sized house. If the furnace is undersized it turns on
and off too often and the noise is a nuisance. Frequent cycling may
wear out the rotating parts earlier. If its oversized the room temp
tends to overshoot before it shuts off. All the fine tuning
electronics control doesn't really improve anything since the house is
a pretty big heat reservoir that doesn't heat up or cool that quickly
to make a difference on our sense of comfort. The higher efficiency
comes from extracting the most heat from the flame and this is evident
from the lukewarm exhaust gas at the PVC vent pipe. Old model furnace
exhaust have metal vents that are too hot to touch and that's valuable
heat going up the chimney. Turning the fan motor on more sensitive
settings or at different speeds is unecessary gadgetry and equipment
cost.


I dislike the idea of a PCB in the hot environment of a furnace as
this cooks the board. That's a pretty good revenue stream for the
furnace manufacturer but is as best marginal to the operating
efficiency of the furnace.

I am highly suspicious of Trane as this company has an over aggressive
independent sales force of retired persons of authority such as a
school principal or a police officer. That induces trust and a
reluctance on the "hit" to ask hard questions. The sales force works
on commission and are not employees, not the ones I have met so far.
They can rattle off claims and figures from their sales brochure like
it is the best thing since sliced bread. But when asked about the
technical details they admit they know nothing of how the furnace
works - that how come the exhaust is so much cooler - and on what
basis does it decide to run or not run the furnace at their
"efficiency" settings. I can't imagine anyone in any trade not being
curious about the inner workings of what they sell especially when
they were senior authorities in their previous jobs (aka not dumb).
But since their protestations of technical ignorance is so uniform
across all their sales reps I believe its Trane's company policy to
them to deny knowledge. To answer such questions would open up a can
of worms.

Go to a HVAC supplies shop to see how a high efficiency furnace is
constructed. Have an idea of how it is different from the older
designs. Then buy one that is similarly constructed and buy the
cheapest and simplest model of a specified BTU output. There is no
such thing as using inferior materials to make a bigger profit. All
furnaces must use specific materials for the critical parts like the
heat exchangers or face regulatory and financial ruin on many levels
should they turn out to be inferior and faulty. There is no new
technology in sensors or motors or materials which are sourced from
the same outside manufacturers anyway. There are no technical
breaktroughs that will differentiate one manufacturer's high
efficiency furnace from another. They are all designed to last 20
years if not more without fuss. If you disagree do tell me in which
area can a "cheap" manufacturer skim on to make the extra profit? Or
where Trane can add value worth several hundred bucks more.


I cal bul****, so much that this post is dripping with it. You are
either ignorant or stupid. Which is it?
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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace

Yes...
My & a few dozen others, utility bills, & we're all comfortable...
A VSD in constant operation is far more efficient than even a conventional
blower operating on call, in the heart of the heating or cooling season.
The added dehumidification is a huge benefit as well.

See, DC is a much more efficient powersource when use in close proximity of
production.
Edison & Tesla & Westinghouse all new it,
Unfortunately the DC supply to a power grid in an urban area would require
huge quantities of copper to transmit.
Now if they'd just have used more localized transformers & generation, we'd
all be saving energy.

And I'd thought this string was dead...

geothermaljones.



"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...

The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark



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BOX FANS & FIRE PITS!!!
BOX FANS & FIRE PITS!!!
BOX FANS & FIRE PITS!!!
BOX FANS & FIRE PITS!!!

Where are Trane units built anyway?

As for gadgets, I hate having to change from heating to cooling in the
Spring & switch back in the fall...
I've had to do that for over 8 years now,
Isn't it enough that I have to change my filter every time I get a utility
bill?

geothermaljones






"Don Ocean" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:
The variable speed is probably saving $15.00 a month, easy.





I doubt it...got anything to back that up?

Mark


Overall that type of furnace is a waste of money. A Plaything for those
that love gadgets. Overcomplication will bite us in the ass one
day..Especially since none of that stuff is made in America.






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"geothermaljones" writes:

See, DC is a much more efficient powersource when use in close proximity of
production.


DC *at the voltage you happen to need* is more efficient than AC,
because there are no transformer losses. But if the voltages don't
match, it's much more complicated and expensive to change voltage with
DC.

Unfortunately the DC supply to a power grid in an urban area would require
huge quantities of copper to transmit.
Now if they'd just have used more localized transformers & generation, we'd
all be saving energy.


There are probably only a few houses sharing the same pole transformer
(and thus the same 120/240 V supply). All other distribution is done at
higher voltage. To get the same efficiency (both electric and copper
usage) with DC, you'd need a source for every few houses. But
generators that small aren't very clean or efficient.

Centralized generation and AC distribution, using several levels of
voltage, makes much more sense for supplying homes.

DC is sometimes used to transmit large amount of power long distances.

Dave
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Now that is something I did not know...

I do know the AC distribution can eat up 20-30%+ of it's power in order to
boost it's voltage & keep up the flow,
but I've never heard of long distance DC distribution.
Any recommendations on a good read to explain it? I'd like to see how it's
done...

geothermaljones


DC is sometimes used to transmit large amount of power long distances.

Dave



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Default Trane Variable Speed Furnace OT: DC power

geothermaljones posted for all of us...

Now that is something I did not know...

I do know the AC distribution can eat up 20-30%+ of it's power in order to
boost it's voltage & keep up the flow,
but I've never heard of long distance DC distribution.
Any recommendations on a good read to explain it? I'd like to see how it's
done...

geothermaljones


DC is sometimes used to transmit large amount of power long distances.

Dave


Large data centers are actively investigating DC power supplies directly to the
systems to save on cooling costs and conversion losses by built in power
supplies.
--
Tekkie
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wrote:
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 20:35:32 +0000 (UTC), (Dave
Martindale) wrote:

"geothermaljones" writes:

See, DC is a much more efficient powersource when use in close
proximity of production.


DC *at the voltage you happen to need* is more efficient than AC,
because there are no transformer losses. But if the voltages don't
match, it's much more complicated and expensive to change voltage
with DC.

Unfortunately the DC supply to a power grid in an urban area would
require huge quantities of copper to transmit.
Now if they'd just have used more localized transformers &
generation, we'd all be saving energy.


There are probably only a few houses sharing the same pole
transformer (and thus the same 120/240 V supply). All other
distribution is done at higher voltage. To get the same efficiency
(both electric and copper usage) with DC, you'd need a source for
every few houses. But generators that small aren't very clean or
efficient.

Centralized generation and AC distribution, using several levels of
voltage, makes much more sense for supplying homes.


Damn. You mean, the power companies actually know WTF they're
doing ? Better even than the home-moaners they supply unlimited power
to 24 / 7 ????

**** ......




DC is sometimes used to transmit large amount of power long
distances.

Dave


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
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wrote:
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 18:39:33 -0600, "geothermaljones"
wrote:

Now that is something I did not know...

I do know the AC distribution can eat up 20-30%+ of it's power in
order to boost it's voltage & keep up the flow,
but I've never heard of long distance DC distribution.
Any recommendations on a good read to explain it? I'd like to see
how it's done...

geothermaljones


DC is sometimes used to transmit large amount of power long
distances.

Dave



Actually, one of the main reasons AC won out over DC was that
DC **SUCKS** when it come to distances and transmission. I highly
doubt that it's used ANYWHERE to long distance transmission.

Google Westinghouse Edison AC DC transmission distance.


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/


Wasn't this covered in Electricity 101 back in, oh yea, high school days?

--
Zyp


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