The Greatest Magician in History

With Halloween right around the corner, Magic comes to mind.

Many of us know the names of these most famous magicians.
Harry Houdini
David Copperfield
David Blaine
P.C. Sorcar
Doug Henning
Harry Blackstone
And more...........

But few realize that there was a magician who has more fame, and came
long before any of those magicians listed above.

His name was Jesus Christ.

Just like Houdini, Copperfield, etc. This Jesus was quite the
magician. He claimed he could walk on water, turn water into wine,
and performed these magic acts. His supposedly greatest magic act of
all time was when he faked his own death, and then supposedly rose
from the dead. Only this Jesus guy went one step further that any
other magician in history. This guy claimed he was God, and fooled
the whole world. Even today, small minded people still believe this
guy was God, over 2000 years later. A few drunken fishermen and
shepherds saw some of the magic acts of Jesus, and believed in them.
Then they believed he was really God.

This proves that Jesus Christ was actually the greatest magician of
all time. The greatest magician in history. Yet, anyone with any
functional mind knows he was not God, just a fake and a great
magician..... Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

On Oct 29, 12:51 am, wrote:
The Greatest Magician in History

With Halloween right around the corner, Magic comes to mind.

Many of us know the names of these most famous magicians.
Harry Houdini
David Copperfield
David Blaine
P.C. Sorcar
Doug Henning
Harry Blackstone
And more...........

But few realize that there was a magician who has more fame, and came
long before any of those magicians listed above.

His name was Jesus Christ.

Just like Houdini, Copperfield, etc. This Jesus was quite the
magician. He claimed he could walk on water, turn water into wine,
and performed these magic acts. His supposedly greatest magic act of
all time was when he faked his own death, and then supposedly rose
from the dead. Only this Jesus guy went one step further that any
other magician in history. This guy claimed he was God, and fooled
the whole world. Even today, small minded people still believe this
guy was God, over 2000 years later. A few drunken fishermen and
shepherds saw some of the magic acts of Jesus, and believed in them.
Then they believed he was really God.

This proves that Jesus Christ was actually the greatest magician of
all time. The greatest magician in history. Yet, anyone with any
functional mind knows he was not God, just a fake and a great
magician..... Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Small minds...the only thing you have "proved" is that you have no
thought process what-so-ever!
There are and have been great thinkers and philosophers who believe.
You in your small material world see nothing that can't be grasped in
your greedy hands.
To believe, requires an expansion not a contraction of mind...of which
you know little.

, 10/29/2007,1:51:21 AM, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

With Halloween right around the corner, Magic comes to mind.

Many of us know the names of these most famous magicians.
Harry Houdini
David Copperfield
David Blaine
P.C. Sorcar
Doug Henning
Harry Blackstone
And more...........

But few realize that there was a magician who has more fame, and came
long before any of those magicians listed above.

His name was Jesus Christ.

Just like Houdini, Copperfield, etc. This Jesus was quite the
magician. He claimed he could walk on water, turn water into wine,
and performed these magic acts. His supposedly greatest magic act of
all time was when he faked his own death, and then supposedly rose
from the dead. Only this Jesus guy went one step further that any
other magician in history. This guy claimed he was God, and fooled
the whole world. Even today, small minded people still believe this
guy was God, over 2000 years later. A few drunken fishermen and
shepherds saw some of the magic acts of Jesus, and believed in them.
Then they believed he was really God.

This proves that Jesus Christ was actually the greatest magician of
all time. The greatest magician in history. Yet, anyone with any
functional mind knows he was not God, just a fake and a great
magician..... Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.


You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

--
"Some folks are wise and some are otherwise." ~ Tobias George Smolett

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.
Even if he did, the common descriptions make him sound more like a
deluded con man than anything else.

Also note the holiday coming up in less than 2 months is NOT his, but
a much older celebration that's been "assimilated" (think Borg here)
by an organization of liars.
--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

wrote:
The Greatest Magician in History

You're mistaken.

The original followers of Jesus were observant Jews.

There is a positive commandment in Judiasm to ignore "signs and wonders" and
judge a person by what he says. (Dt 13:2). In fact, someone who preaches
other than the approved stuff, is to be put to death, even if he perform
miracles.

Miracles, magic, or mumbo-jumbo is not the test of divinity. Never has been.

In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

wrote in message
...
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet. Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead? I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll just
return to carbon based molecules. But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet. Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:30 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)
--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:32:17 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

wrote:
The Greatest Magician in History

You're mistaken.

The original followers of Jesus were observant Jews.

There is a positive commandment in Judiasm to ignore "signs and wonders" and
judge a person by what he says. (Dt 13:2). In fact, someone who preaches
other than the approved stuff, is to be put to death, even if he perform
miracles.

Miracles, magic, or mumbo-jumbo is not the test of divinity. Never has been.


"divinity" is one of the most nonsensical of the nonsense words.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:06:45 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.


True, since "magic" (as in "supernatural powers" in just a fancy way
of admitting you don't know what something is.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

On Oct 29, 4:26 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:06:45 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.

True, since "magic" (as in "supernatural powers" in just a fancy way
of admitting you don't know what something is.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

You quote Franklin to suit your whim...I can do that also.

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more
regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we
shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:25:10 -0700, wrote:

On Oct 29, 4:26 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:06:45 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.

True, since "magic" (as in "supernatural powers" in just a fancy way
of admitting you don't know what something is.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

You quote Franklin to suit your whim...I can do that also.


But can you quote Franklin SERIOUSLY?

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more
regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we
shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."

There's plenty of evidence. It just won't fit through the door :-)

There's not really a smiley there. That's just for those who can't
understand simple things.

On Oct 29, 8:55 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:25:10 -0700, wrote:
On Oct 29, 4:26 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:06:45 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.

True, since "magic" (as in "supernatural powers" in just a fancy way
of admitting you don't know what something is.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

You quote Franklin to suit your whim...I can do that also.

But can you quote Franklin SERIOUSLY?

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more
regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we
shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."

There's plenty of evidence. It just won't fit through the door :-)

There's not really a smiley there. That's just for those who can't
understand simple things.

You're right! I don't understand you...and you're simple.

In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:30 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'Flavius Josephus' for example.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not
talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'Flavius Josephus' for example.

Not the best choice to prove Jesus. Virtually all scholars agree the
Josephus paragraph naming Jesus is a gloss, the main evidence being the
Russian version of Josephus does not include it.

That said, you've got to wonder why the author (Josephus or a pious monk)
inserted the paragraph where he did.

The 'History of the Jews' by Flavius Josephus is a massive work, hundreds of
thousands of words. The "inserter" could have put the Jesus paragraph
anywhere. But let's analyze the location.

The text following the Jesus entry is fascinating. For some it's hard to
read, the Whitstone translation being in 19th century Kings English, but
I'll try to give the flavor. It's a story about deception and religion and
deceit.

There was a woman in Rome, Paulina, universally accepted to be of high
morals, very rich, and married to a nobleman. A fellow named Decius Mundus
was smitten by Paulina and often tried to entice her to his bed. Mundus was
rebuffed every time. Mundus even offered Paulina 200,000 Attic drachmas for
one night's lodging! No go.

Mundus decided to kill himself.

His woman-servant, Ide, hearing of Mundus' lament, offered to supply Paulina
for a mere 50,000 drachmas; Mundus need only follow the woman's plan.

Mundus was overjoyed!

The woman, knowing that Paulina was devoted to the goddess Isis, went to the
priests of the temple of Isis and bribed them. The elder of the priests then
went to Paulina and "said that he was sent by the god Anubis, who was fallen
in love with her, and enjoined her to come to him." Paulina, overjoyed, told
her husband, who, perplexed, nevertheless agreed.

After supper at the temple, the lights were put out. The priests shut the
doors. "Then did Mundus leap out (for he was hidden therein), and did not
fail of enjoying her, who was at his service all the night long, as
supposing he was the god;..."

Three days later, Mundus encounters Paulina in the market: "Nay, Paulina,
thou hast saved me two hundred thousand drachmas, which sum thou mightest
have added to thy own family; yet hast thou not failed to be at my service
in the manner I invited thee... but I rejoice in the pleasure I reaped by
what I did, while I took to myself the name of Anubis."

Paulina was horrified. She told her husband. He, likewise was appalled. The
husband told emperor Tiberius.

Tiberius had the priests of the Temple of Isis crucified, along with Ide,
the woman behind the scheme. The emperor also ordered the temple torn down
and the statue of the goddess Isis thrown in the Tiber!

Mundus was only banished "because he supposed that what crime he had
committed was done out of the passion of love.

The story ends with: "And these were the circumstances which concerned the
temple of Isis, and the injuries occasioned by her priests. I now return to
the relation of what happened about this time to the Jews at Rome, as I
formerly told you I would."

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:26:18 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:30 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'Flavius Josephus' for example.

Deluded people, deception, and proselytizing idiots are NOT the same
things as evidence.

As another poster said, there IS still evidence but it won't fit
through the door.

BTW, It's not MY fault you don't understand the above.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 02:15:30 -0700, wrote:

On Oct 29, 8:55 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:25:10 -0700, wrote:
On Oct 29, 4:26 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:06:45 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
The Greatest Magician in History

Hate to tell you, but Christ worked ABSOLUTELY NO magic.

His works were not magic and illusions.

True, since "magic" (as in "supernatural powers" in just a fancy way
of admitting you don't know what something is.

HTH, but I doubt it.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

You quote Franklin to suit your whim...I can do that also.

But can you quote Franklin SERIOUSLY?

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more
regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we
shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."

There's plenty of evidence. It just won't fit through the door :-)

There's not really a smiley there. That's just for those who can't
understand simple things.

You're right! I don't understand you...and you're simple.

I could give you a more sophisticated explanation but you'd reject
that too.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet. Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K

On Oct 30, 5:26 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:30 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'Flavius Josephus' for example.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which reads exaclty like someone repeatign a tale heard around a
campfire. "Jesus was a man...." That is the total sum of any
historical reference to him other than religious scripts that were
written long after his supposed life.

If he was such a great man, caused such an uproar in the ME, etc.
don't you think there would be at least ONE reference to him in
official documents?

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet. Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K


Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when
you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet.
Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll
just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K


Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve


FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins. I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven. I believe that he will return to the earth. My point
was that if I am correct in this belief that I will spend eternity
differently than you, who reject Him. And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say. I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief. All men have the option of freedom of choice.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now. Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage. If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ, and having to
overintellectualize this. I pray for you.

We'll see.

Steve

On Oct 30, 5:35 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message

...







"Harry K" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when
you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet.
Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll
just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K

Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve

FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins. I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven. I believe that he will return to the earth. My point
was that if I am correct in this belief that I will spend eternity
differently than you, who reject Him. And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say. I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief. All men have the option of freedom of choice.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now. Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage. If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ, and having to
overintellectualize this. I pray for you.

We'll see.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The arrogance of the true believer. "I'll pray for you". I didn't
ask you to, I don't want you to and for your information a scientific
test was run about 2 years ago on the power of prayer.

Patients with serious illnesses were selected and divided into three
groups. Doctors did the evalution.

Group 1 - those who would get no prayers.
Group 2 - those who would be prayed 4
Group 3 - those who didn't know if they were prayed for or not.

The results were ambiguous. There was very little difference between
the groups but what little did show was that the "will be prayed for"
group did slightly worse than the other two. Not enough to be
statitically significant.

You can go to the news group talk.origins and do a search for the
thread. I don't recall the title now.

Harry K

NotX, 10/29/2007,9:18:41 AM, wrote:

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

The proof is within my heart.

I was once like you.

I stopped trying to prove there was no Jesus Christ -- either man or
divinity -- and took a leap of faith. His existence became evidently
clear when I stopped fighting.

No matter what one says you will never believe based upon words alone.
That is why it is called faith. Some call it blind faith. Regardless
of your intellectual beliefs you cannot deny it has given direction to
countless people. I came to accept as an adult, not as a child being
indoctrinated into the system.

An atheist claims there is proof of the non-existence of God. An
agnostic claims there is no proof of the existence of God. A believer
claims there is proof of the existence of God. Which one are you?

--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:44:12 -0700, Harry K
wrote:


So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K

Regarding faith, sometimes I forget (for a little while) that faith
itself is a good thing. It's just a problem when it's seriously
misapplied, such as to magical beings with no evidence of their
existence.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:



FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.


Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.


That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.


Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve


One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

"NotX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:



FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.


Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.


That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.


Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve


One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

Your ignorance, abrasiveness, lack of class, and surly demeanor are evident.
You must have a very nice existence with all that mixed together. I pray
that your heart may be changed before it is too late.

I know how to ignore you, so, good bye and God bless you.

Steve

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:47:13 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Oct 30, 5:26 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:03:30 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:51:21 -0500, wrote:

The Greatest Magician in History

[snip garbage]

Today, there are millions of buildings constructed in
his name, and the magic act continues in those with small minds.

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'Flavius Josephus' for example.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which reads exaclty like someone repeatign a tale heard around a
campfire. "Jesus was a man...." That is the total sum of any
historical reference to him other than religious scripts that were
written long after his supposed life.

If he was such a great man, caused such an uproar in the ME, etc.
don't you think there would be at least ONE reference to him in
official documents?

Harry K

His dad burned them all. He wants NO ONE but idiots to be with him in
Heaven :-)

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"NotX" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:



FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.


Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.


That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.


Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve


One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

Your ignorance, abrasiveness, lack of class, and surly demeanor are
evident. You must have a very nice existence with all that mixed together.
I pray that your heart may be changed before it is too late.

I know how to ignore you, so, good bye and God bless you.

Steve


Your continuation of this discussion,
your picking apart every item I said,
your participation in a discussion about something you purport NOT to
believe in at all,
your knowledge of the issues,
and all your behaviors

point to someone who is yelling because they are afraid, and either want the
focus shifted from their fear or want to keep from wetting themselves from
fear.

If you didn't really care about this, and you didn't really believe, you
wouldn't even participate in this OT discussion. Instead, you find it
needful to come down with both feet on the other side of the debate.

This is not only disrespectful of anyone who has a different opinion than
you, but indicative that you have some deep feelings about this coming from
guilt, fear, rebelling against authority, loss of a parent, sexual physical
or emotional abuse, to the point of being over the top in defending your
position in the debate to the point of being offensive.

Had you stated your position in softer tones, I would have given you more
credence and listened to your points. But since you come up only with
vulgarity and rudeness, I can see that this a very deep personal struggle
for you, perhaps even spiritual warfare by the devil for your soul. You say
you don't believe, but yet have an obviously deep knowledge of the issues.
Anyone like that is displaying both sides in the debate, but having to be
hostile when on the con side. Debate stained by emotion is simply a
demonstration of someone who is debating something they really don't
believe, but can't stay detached and on the subject. Hence, immature
emotional namecalling.

Good luck in your search. I hope you find whatever it is that makes you
truly happy. If you have a clue as to what that might be, that is. You
really don't sound very happy to me.

May the Great Comforter enter your life, as he did for Saul of Tarsus.

Steve

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when
you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet.
Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll
just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K


Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve


FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins. I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven. I believe that he will return to the earth. My point
was that if I am correct in this belief that I will spend eternity
differently than you, who reject Him. And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say. I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief. All men have the option of freedom of choice.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now. Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage. If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ, and having to
overintellectualize this. I pray for you.

We'll see.

Steve


And what about those of us who do believe in God, but not in Jesus
Christ. Are we all evil? According to people like you who quote all
this crap, most of you feel we are. I believe Jesus existed, but do
not believe he was God. Yet I do believe in a supreme being. I know
that must be hard to comprehend to persons like you who know all these
bible quotes and take it word for word. Did you ever consider that
this book may be wrong? No, not all of it, but enough to make it
pretty meaningless, particularly to take every word literally. Each
to his own, but how about you keep it to yourself and quit forcing it
on others.

One thing you said that I agree with, is "All men have the option of
freedom of choice". I choose to NOT believe in Jesus Christ as being
God. That does not make me evil. As I said, I DO believe in God,
just not the one in the bible. I dont need an instruction manual
(bible) to live a spiritual life. My spirituality has not caused all
the wars and other violence throughout the past 2000+ years of history
either. The fact that christianity has caused so much violence is in
itself a large reason I want no part of it.

Now I ask why this is posted to alt.home.repair anyhow? Or is this
what you'd call soul repair?

On Oct 30, 11:25 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message

...





"NotX" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.

Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.

Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve

One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

Your ignorance, abrasiveness, lack of class, and surly demeanor are
evident. You must have a very nice existence with all that mixed together.
I pray that your heart may be changed before it is too late.

I know how to ignore you, so, good bye and God bless you.

Steve

Your continuation of this discussion,
your picking apart every item I said,
your participation in a discussion about something you purport NOT to
believe in at all,
your knowledge of the issues,
and all your behaviors

point to someone who is yelling because they are afraid, and either want the
focus shifted from their fear or want to keep from wetting themselves from
fear.

If you didn't really care about this, and you didn't really believe, you
wouldn't even participate in this OT discussion. Instead, you find it
needful to come down with both feet on the other side of the debate.

This is not only disrespectful of anyone who has a different opinion than
you, but indicative that you have some deep feelings about this coming from
guilt, fear, rebelling against authority, loss of a parent, sexual physical
or emotional abuse, to the point of being over the top in defending your
position in the debate to the point of being offensive.

Had you stated your position in softer tones, I would have given you more
credence and listened to your points. But since you come up only with
vulgarity and rudeness, I can see that this a very deep personal struggle
for you, perhaps even spiritual warfare by the devil for your soul. You say
you don't believe, but yet have an obviously deep knowledge of the issues.
Anyone like that is displaying both sides in the debate, but having to be
hostile when on the con side. Debate stained by emotion is simply a
demonstration of someone who is debating something they really don't
believe, but can't stay detached and on the subject. Hence, immature
emotional namecalling.

Good luck in your search. I hope you find whatever it is that makes you
truly happy. If you have a clue as to what that might be, that is. You
really don't sound very happy to me.

May the Great Comforter enter your life, as he did for Saul of Tarsus.

Steve

Well stated SteveB

I am taken aback by individuals that make disgusting remarks and
attack religion. They wouldn't make these remarks in a face-to-face
confrontation.
Steve is correct...these people may have done something they think is
unforgivable and feel they need to go the other way.

What father would not be willing to forgive his son?

NotX, 10/30/2007,11:08:38 PM, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:



FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to
die for our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.


Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.


That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.


Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve


One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.



This post is a fine example of one bristling with antagonism. It
reminds me of why I chose a different path than you.

--
"You have all the characteristics of a popular politician: a horrible
voice, bad breeding, and a vulgar manner." ~ Aristophanes

In article , NotX wrote:
[snip]
One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.

Who is the more irrational, the one who believes in a God he cannot see, or
the one who is offended by a God he does not believe in?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 30 Oct, 13:04, "HeyBub" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
That is false.

Thank you for totally failing to provide evidence :-)

It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not
talking about the Bible, either. Google on 'FlaviusJosephus' for example.

Not the best choice to prove Jesus. Virtually all scholars agree
theJosephusparagraph naming Jesus is a gloss, the main evidence being the
Russian version ofJosephusdoes not include it.

There are two paragraphs. The shorter has always been considered
genuine by almost every scholar; the longer was generally considered a
gloss a century ago, but opinion has moved the other way during the
last century and it is generally considered genuine but corrupt
(although I understand that substantial numbers of scholars would
still consider it an interpolation).

The Old Slavonic "version of the Jewish War" (actually a separate
medieval composition drawing on many sources, including Antiquities,
John Malalas and the bible) *does* include it, as the Greek text used
for the Jewish War belonged to a family of that work which had
acquired it.

That said, you've got to wonder why the author (Josephus or a pious monk)
inserted the paragraph where he did.

The 'History of the Jews' by FlaviusJosephusis a massive work, hundreds of
thousands of words. The "inserter" could have put the Jesus paragraph
anywhere.

It's rather a ragbag of a work anyway, and the Loeb editor remarks on
the activities of hired editors working on it.

But let's analyze the location.

The text following the Jesus entry is fascinating. ...

There was a woman in Rome, Paulina, universally accepted to be of high
morals, very rich, and married to a nobleman. ...
The story ends with: "And these were the circumstances which concerned the
temple of Isis, and the injuries occasioned by her priests. I now return to
the relation of what happened about this time to the Jews at Rome, as I
formerly told you I would."

It's a very interesting story, and it highlights the way in which
Antiquities is full of digressions.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

On 30 Oct, 13:27, NotX wrote:
It's not my fault you're ignorant. The evidence exists -- and I'm not talking
about the Bible, either. Google on 'FlaviusJosephus' for example.

Deluded people, deception, and proselytizing idiots are NOT the same
things as evidence.

Indeed not. This is why atheists, invariably proselytising for
conformity to the societal values of the time in which they happened
to be born, can't even state their preferred belief, never mind offer
evidence for it. When challenged they try to find reasons why they
don't have to provide evidence!

Rational people know the evidence on all sides.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

On 30 Oct, 15:47, Harry K wrote:
If he was such a great man, caused such an uproar in the ME, etc.
don't you think there would be at least ONE reference to him in
official documents?

Which official documents do you mean?

Demands for evidence which doesn't exist for emperors sort of shows
how invalid many of the anti-Christian arguments are.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Harry K" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when
you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet.
Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll
just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K


Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve


FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins. I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven. I believe that he will return to the earth. My
point
was that if I am correct in this belief that I will spend eternity
differently than you, who reject Him. And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say. I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief. All men have the option of freedom of choice.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now. Repent, and live
a
life of being as good as you can manage. If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ, and having to
overintellectualize this. I pray for you.

We'll see.

Steve


And what about those of us who do believe in God, but not in Jesus
Christ. Are we all evil? According to people like you who quote all
this crap, most of you feel we are. I believe Jesus existed, but do
not believe he was God. Yet I do believe in a supreme being. I know
that must be hard to comprehend to persons like you who know all these
bible quotes and take it word for word. Did you ever consider that
this book may be wrong? No, not all of it, but enough to make it
pretty meaningless, particularly to take every word literally. Each
to his own, but how about you keep it to yourself and quit forcing it
on others.

One thing you said that I agree with, is "All men have the option of
freedom of choice". I choose to NOT believe in Jesus Christ as being
God. That does not make me evil. As I said, I DO believe in God,
just not the one in the bible. I dont need an instruction manual
(bible) to live a spiritual life. My spirituality has not caused all
the wars and other violence throughout the past 2000+ years of history
either. The fact that christianity has caused so much violence is in
itself a large reason I want no part of it.

Now I ask why this is posted to alt.home.repair anyhow? Or is this
what you'd call soul repair?


To start with, all religious beliefs can be boiled down to good versus evil.
Light versus dark. It is good that you are on the side of good. Your
choice of religion to follow does not bother me. At least you are not on
the dark side.

As for why this is posted, look back. I didn't start it. Start with the
subject. When you read a subject like "How to make love to a sheep", you
might choose to skip over it. If the subject is stated do you don't know
what it is, when you start to read, only read a couple of sentences, then
delete or mark it.

To go through the whole thing and then complain is like ordering a steak,
eating it, then returning the plate to the chef with your complaints.

Steve

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:18:30 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


[snip]


Your ignorance, abrasiveness, lack of class, and surly demeanor are evident.

In your little mind, of course.

You must have a very nice existence with all that mixed together. I pray
that your heart may be changed before it is too late.


Essentially, you're saying you want me to be assaulted and mutilated.
No thanks.

I know how to ignore you, so, good bye and God bless you.

Steve

--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:25:02 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

[snip]


Your continuation of this discussion,
your picking apart every item I said,
your participation in a discussion about something you purport NOT to
believe in at all,

WRONG. Idiots are quite real.

your knowledge of the issues,
and all your behaviors

point to someone who is yelling because they are afraid, and either want the
focus shifted from their fear or want to keep from wetting themselves from
fear.


You sure do like to make up stuff. I'm just averse to bull****.

If you didn't really care about this, and you didn't really believe, you
wouldn't even participate in this OT discussion. Instead, you find it
needful to come down with both feet on the other side of the debate.

This is not only disrespectful of anyone who has a different opinion than
you, but indicative that you have some deep feelings about this coming from
guilt, fear, rebelling against authority, loss of a parent, sexual physical
or emotional abuse, to the point of being over the top in defending your
position in the debate to the point of being offensive.

Had you stated your position in softer tones, I would have given you more
credence and listened to your points. But since you come up only with
vulgarity and rudeness,

Most of which is limited to your imagination.

I can see that this a very deep personal struggle
for you, perhaps even spiritual warfare by the devil for your soul. You say
you don't believe, but yet have an obviously deep knowledge of the issues.

There's really a lot of bull**** around. THAT is the issue.

Anyone like that is displaying both sides in the debate, but having to be
hostile when on the con side. Debate stained by emotion is simply a
demonstration of someone who is debating something they really don't
believe, but can't stay detached and on the subject. Hence, immature
emotional namecalling.

Good luck in your search. I hope you find whatever it is that makes you
truly happy.

Right now, that would be to see your brain start working.

If you have a clue as to what that might be, that is. You
really don't sound very happy to me.

May the Great Comforter enter your life, as he did for Saul of Tarsus.


I DON'T want to be raped. ESPECIALLY by something that reminds me of
"Star Trek II" where they have this worm that eats people's brains.

Steve

--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."