On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:05:57 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX wrote:
[snip]
One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.

Who is the more irrational, the one who believes in a God he cannot see, or
the one who is offended by a God he does not believe in?

Just one more thing: I am obviously NOT offended by God (such would be
complete nonsense). The object of offense is the absurdities spewing
from HUMAN brains.
--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:20:52 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


[snip]



And what about those of us who do believe in God, but not in Jesus
Christ. Are we all evil? According to people like you who quote all
this crap, most of you feel we are. I believe Jesus existed, but do
not believe he was God. Yet I do believe in a supreme being. I know
that must be hard to comprehend to persons like you who know all these
bible quotes and take it word for word. Did you ever consider that
this book may be wrong? No, not all of it, but enough to make it
pretty meaningless, particularly to take every word literally. Each
to his own, but how about you keep it to yourself and quit forcing it
on others.


God/Christ/Allah/etc... belief wouldn't be so bad if those believers
could keep it to themselves.

I'm not really objecting to all believers, but those who DON'T keep it
to themselves, and continue to look like psychopathic idiots. Good
thing there's few of those in real life.

One thing you said that I agree with, is "All men have the option of
freedom of choice". I choose to NOT believe in Jesus Christ as being
God. That does not make me evil.

It doesn't. If ANYONE is to be considered "evil", it's those who keep
trying to force it on others.

As I said, I DO believe in God,
just not the one in the bible.

OK.

I dont need an instruction manual
(bible) to live a spiritual life. My spirituality has not caused all
the wars and other violence throughout the past 2000+ years of history
either. The fact that christianity has caused so much violence is in
itself a large reason I want no part of it.

Now I ask why this is posted to alt.home.repair anyhow? Or is this
what you'd call soul repair?
--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:49:12 -0400, "badgolferman"
wrote:

NotX, 10/29/2007,9:18:41 AM, wrote:

Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

The proof is within my heart.


That's what was actually meant by "It won't fit through the door." The
"proof" is in a private reality where it is COMPLETELY UNAVAILABLE to
anyone who actually needs it.

I was once like you.

I stopped trying to prove there was no Jesus Christ -- either man or
divinity --

I never tried to prove something like that. That's nonsensical.

and took a leap of faith.

Ever hear the phrase "look before you leap". Leaping (in any form)
makes no sense without a reasonable expectation of something being
there.

His existence became evidently
clear when I stopped fighting.


That is, you could "know God" only after you lied to yourself about
his existence. Some people aren't that dishonest.

No matter what one says you will never believe based upon words alone.

No. Images and thoughts are much more convincing, and they show no
trace of that magic user.

That is why it is called faith.

Faith itself is a very good thing. Please don't do damage to the idea
with this magical nonsense.

Some call it blind faith.

In other words "stupid faith".

Regardless
of your intellectual beliefs you cannot deny it has given direction to
countless people.

"given direction". WTF there's no indication of ANYTHING AT ALL being
there.

I came to accept as an adult, not as a child being
indoctrinated into the system.


Really?

An atheist claims there is proof of the non-existence of God.

WRONG!!!!

None I know would claim such a thing. There is no evidence that the
word "God" refers to any actual thing, so there's nothing there that
could possibly be "proved".

An
agnostic claims there is no proof of the existence of God.

Forget proof, which does not exist ANYWHERE (except passably in
mathematics). Ever hear of a littler thing called EVIDENCE?

A believer
claims there is proof of the existence of God.

For no reason whatsoever.

Which one are you?
--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Oct 31, 7:12 am, "SteveB" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Harry K" wrote in message
egroups.com...
On Oct 29, 2:22 pm, NotX wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:15 -0700, "SteveB"

wrote:

"badgolferman" wrote

You may or may not be correct. Let us know what the truth is when
you
die. I'll trust your judgment much more then.

One of the most profound things I have EVER read on the Internet.
Thank
you.

To everyone else: Where will YOU be five minutes after you are dead?

Think about what "death" means. You're not going to be anywhere.
You'll be DEAD!.

I
KNOW where I'll be, and if all this is just smoke and mirrors, I'll
just
return to carbon based molecules.

YOU won't. You won't "be" anything. That's what death is.

But if there IS something to all this,
I'll be smiling somewhere. Where will you be?

Place your bets, folks. The dice are rolling.

Steve

--
57 days until the winter solstice celebration

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

So you don't have faith. You are just hedging a bet.

Harry K

Thank you for the judgement, Harry.

Good bye.

Steve

FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins. I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven. I believe that he will return to the earth. My
point
was that if I am correct in this belief that I will spend eternity
differently than you, who reject Him. And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say. I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief. All men have the option of freedom of choice.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now. Repent, and live
a
life of being as good as you can manage. If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ, and having to
overintellectualize this. I pray for you.

We'll see.

Steve

And what about those of us who do believe in God, but not in Jesus
Christ. Are we all evil? According to people like you who quote all
this crap, most of you feel we are. I believe Jesus existed, but do
not believe he was God. Yet I do believe in a supreme being. I know
that must be hard to comprehend to persons like you who know all these
bible quotes and take it word for word. Did you ever consider that
this book may be wrong? No, not all of it, but enough to make it
pretty meaningless, particularly to take every word literally. Each
to his own, but how about you keep it to yourself and quit forcing it
on others.

One thing you said that I agree with, is "All men have the option of
freedom of choice". I choose to NOT believe in Jesus Christ as being
God. That does not make me evil. As I said, I DO believe in God,
just not the one in the bible. I dont need an instruction manual
(bible) to live a spiritual life. My spirituality has not caused all
the wars and other violence throughout the past 2000+ years of history
either. The fact that christianity has caused so much violence is in
itself a large reason I want no part of it.

Now I ask why this is posted to alt.home.repair anyhow? Or is this
what you'd call soul repair?

To start with, all religious beliefs can be boiled down to good versus evil.
Light versus dark. It is good that you are on the side of good. Your
choice of religion to follow does not bother me. At least you are not on
the dark side.

As for why this is posted, look back. I didn't start it. Start with the
subject. When you read a subject like "How to make love to a sheep", you
might choose to skip over it. If the subject is stated do you don't know
what it is, when you start to read, only read a couple of sentences, then
delete or mark it.

To go through the whole thing and then complain is like ordering a steak,
eating it, then returning the plate to the chef with your complaints.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Basically you are sayign that you want a forum to put forth your views
but do not want anyone to post refutations.

I wonder where you fall on the spectrum between a 'literalist' and
'it' metaphor' (can't think of the right term now).

While I am an atheist I really have no problem with the believers
until they start insisting the bible is inerrant and literal. Just
reading Genesis shows that both are wrong.

Harry K

On Oct 30, 7:49 pm, "badgolferman"
wrote:
NotX, 10/29/2007,9:18:41 AM, wrote:
Realize that there is absolutely no evidence this person ever existed.

The proof is within my heart.

I was once like you.

I stopped trying to prove there was no Jesus Christ -- either man or
divinity -- and took a leap of faith. His existence became evidently
clear when I stopped fighting.

No matter what one says you will never believe based upon words alone.
That is why it is called faith. Some call it blind faith. Regardless
of your intellectual beliefs you cannot deny it has given direction to
countless people. I came to accept as an adult, not as a child being
indoctrinated into the system.

An atheist claims there is proof of the non-existence of God. An
agnostic claims there is no proof of the existence of God. A believer
claims there is proof of the existence of God. Which one are you?

--
"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." ~
Flannery O'Connor

Atheists do not claim there is proof for non-existance. You can't
prove a negaive. An agnostic is one who says "I don't know"

"A believer claims there is proof of the existence of God" - People
have been askign for that proof for a minimum of 2,000 years. Are you
the one who is going to provide it?

Harry K

In article , NotX wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:05:57 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
[snip]
One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.

Who is the more irrational, the one who believes in a God he cannot see, or
the one who is offended by a God he does not believe in?

Just one more thing: I am obviously NOT offended by God (such would be
complete nonsense).

Actually, it's quite obvious that you ARE. But never mind. God bless you
anyway.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Oct 31, 6:19 am, wrote:
On Oct 30, 11:25 pm, "SteveB" wrote:





"SteveB" wrote in message

...

"NotX" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:35:34 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:

FYI, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, sent to the earth to die for
our sins.

Despite the fact that "Jesus", "God" , and "sins" are words that mean
nothing al all. Even if they did, "dying for our sins" makes no sense
at all. If it was anything , it'd be a "protection racket" ()consider
who put you in danger, then "saved" you from it),

I believe he was an actual living man who died on the cross and
went back to Heaven.

"Heaven", another one of those words that means nothing in this
context. Anyway, where's that valuable evidence?

I believe that he will return to the earth.

Since "he" didn't exist in the first place, that's also nonsense.

My point
was that if I am correct in this belief

Quite unlikely. Even if those facts happened to be true, you're still
spewing bull****.

that I will spend eternity

that meaningless word again (I did invite you to show otherwise, and
you ignored that).

differently than you, who reject Him.

Now THAT'S stupidity. How can someone reject a figment of YOUR
imagination.

And if you're right, I'll just be
dead, as you say.

But what's really important is did you LIVE first, or did you just
spend your life spewing bull****?

I was just trying to bring others to this belief, which
is a duty of my belief.

Essentially, a duty to be an asshole.

All men have the option of freedom of choice.

Actually not here. Some can recognize bull****.

For all, find Christ, and prepare for your eternity now.

Even consider presenting EVEN ONE meaningful definition of "eternity"?

Repent, and live a
life of being as good as you can manage.

Sounds good, kind of the opposite of you.

If everyone would do that, the
world would be a better place in five minutes.

That is, stop the bull**** about magical beings, and start living THIS
life, the only one you have. Help others to live THIS life, not some
imaginary one.

I know some of you will keep on refusing Christ,

I am incapable of "refusing Christ", considering that there is nothing
there but some absurd story.

and having to
overintellectualize this.

I pray for you.

Do what you want. Why would I care if you "talk" to imaginary beings?

We'll see.

Steve

One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.
--
56 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

Your ignorance, abrasiveness, lack of class, and surly demeanor are
evident. You must have a very nice existence with all that mixed together.
I pray that your heart may be changed before it is too late.

I know how to ignore you, so, good bye and God bless you.

Steve

Your continuation of this discussion,
your picking apart every item I said,
your participation in a discussion about something you purport NOT to
believe in at all,
your knowledge of the issues,
and all your behaviors

point to someone who is yelling because they are afraid, and either want the
focus shifted from their fear or want to keep from wetting themselves from
fear.

If you didn't really care about this, and you didn't really believe, you
wouldn't even participate in this OT discussion. Instead, you find it
needful to come down with both feet on the other side of the debate.

This is not only disrespectful of anyone who has a different opinion than
you, but indicative that you have some deep feelings about this coming from
guilt, fear, rebelling against authority, loss of a parent, sexual physical
or emotional abuse, to the point of being over the top in defending your
position in the debate to the point of being offensive.

Had you stated your position in softer tones, I would have given you more
credence and listened to your points. But since you come up only with
vulgarity and rudeness, I can see that this a very deep personal struggle
for you, perhaps even spiritual warfare by the devil for your soul. You say
you don't believe, but yet have an obviously deep knowledge of the issues.
Anyone like that is displaying both sides in the debate, but having to be
hostile when on the con side. Debate stained by emotion is simply a
demonstration of someone who is debating something they really don't
believe, but can't stay detached and on the subject. Hence, immature
emotional namecalling.

Good luck in your search. I hope you find whatever it is that makes you
truly happy. If you have a clue as to what that might be, that is. You
really don't sound very happy to me.

May the Great Comforter enter your life, as he did for Saul of Tarsus.

Steve

Well stated SteveB

I am taken aback by individuals that make disgusting remarks and
attack religion. They wouldn't make these remarks in a face-to-face
confrontation.
Steve is correct...these people may have done something they think is
unforgivable and feel they need to go the other way.

What father would not be willing to forgive his son?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So..... does this mean that I should use stainless, or can I get away
with galvanized?

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:09:56 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:05:57 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , NotX
wrote:
[snip]
One definition of an idiot: someone who repeats absurd stories ad
nauseam, while ignoring the fact there is not one bit of evidence to
support such a claim.

Who is the more irrational, the one who believes in a God he cannot see, or
the one who is offended by a God he does not believe in?

Just one more thing: I am obviously NOT offended by God (such would be
complete nonsense).

Actually, it's quite obvious that you ARE.

Now THERE's a case of real LOL.

But never mind. God bless you
anyway.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:56:45 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]


Basically you are sayign that you want a forum to put forth your views
but do not want anyone to post refutations.

I wonder where you fall on the spectrum between a 'literalist' and
'it' metaphor' (can't think of the right term now).

While I am an atheist I really have no problem with the believers
until they start insisting the bible is inerrant and literal. Just
reading Genesis shows that both are wrong.

Harry K

That's the way I am. I'm pretty tolerant of most religious people. At
least when they don't keep throwing it in people's faces all the time.

BTW, I DON'T consider the Bible as disproving God, but as something
that could not have been written be the God claimed by Christians.
That is, an objection to the Bible is NOT an objection to God.
--
55 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:50:26 -0700, Roger Pearse
wrote:

[snip]

Indeed not. This is why atheists, invariably proselytising
for conformity to the societal values of the time in which they happened
to be born, can't even state their preferred belief, never mind offer
evidence for it.

And what sort of belief would that be? All "atheism" is is a lack of
one particular belief. It does not indicate the presence of ANY
belief.

When challenged they try to find reasons why they
don't have to provide evidence!


Since there's nothing there requiring it. What requires evidence is
THEISM (belief in a god or gods).

Include all your evidence below this line (use extra electrons as
necessary).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 31 Oct, 20:26, real1 wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:50:26 -0700, Roger Pearse

wrote:

[snip]

Indeed not. This is why atheists, invariably proselytising
for conformity to the societal values of the time in which they happened
to be born, can't even state their preferred belief, never mind offer
evidence for it.

And what sort of belief would that be?

QED.

It is characteristic of atheists to be evasive about the belief-system
for which they proselytise, while making demands of others. Of course
this may be because they don't know, but I suspect "don't care" and
"don't want to be questioned" is more accurate.

All "atheism" is is a lack of one particular belief. It does not indicate
the presence of ANY belief.

This is a standard excuse offered by atheists, as a reason why they
don't have to explain, justify, or analyse their beliefs. But the
idea that atheists live without a belief system is risible. Ask how
they live! How do they decide whether to lie or tell the truth?
whether to obey the law or not? etc etc. The beliefs of atheists,
analysed by their behaviour over decades, turn out to be conformity to
some subset of societal values, with a learning in the direction of
unthinking convenience. Needless to say no atheist can even
articulate this.

The idea that atheism is merely a hate-creed with no positive content
is of course plausible to some extent; but then, atheists deny that
too.

As I said, the endless refusal of atheists to put their own beliefs up
for discusion

When challenged they try to find reasons why they
don't have to provide evidence!

Since there's nothing there requiring it.

Like so.

What requires evidence is THEISM (belief in a god or gods).

I.e., someone else. It is difficult not to feel contempt for this
attempt to demand of others what they cannot provide themselves.

Include all your evidence below this line ...

And following the ignorance, the evasions, and the hypocrisy, we get
the insolence.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse, 11/1/2007,6:02:43 AM, wrote:

On 31 Oct, 20:26, real1 wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:50:26 -0700, Roger Pearse

wrote:

[snip]

Indeed not. This is why atheists, invariably proselytising
for conformity to the societal values of the time in which they
happened to be born, can't even state their preferred belief,
never mind offer evidence for it.

And what sort of belief would that be?

QED.

It is characteristic of atheists to be evasive about the belief-system
for which they proselytise, while making demands of others. Of course
this may be because they don't know, but I suspect "don't care" and
"don't want to be questioned" is more accurate.

All "atheism" is is a lack of one particular belief. It does not
indicate the presence of ANY belief.

This is a standard excuse offered by atheists, as a reason why they
don't have to explain, justify, or analyse their beliefs. But the
idea that atheists live without a belief system is risible. Ask how
they live! How do they decide whether to lie or tell the truth?
whether to obey the law or not? etc etc. The beliefs of atheists,
analysed by their behaviour over decades, turn out to be conformity to
some subset of societal values, with a learning in the direction of
unthinking convenience. Needless to say no atheist can even
articulate this.

The idea that atheism is merely a hate-creed with no positive content
is of course plausible to some extent; but then, atheists deny that
too.

As I said, the endless refusal of atheists to put their own beliefs up
for discusion

When challenged they try to find reasons why they
don't have to provide evidence!

Since there's nothing there requiring it.

Like so.

What requires evidence is THEISM (belief in a god or gods).

I.e., someone else. It is difficult not to feel contempt for this
attempt to demand of others what they cannot provide themselves.

Include all your evidence below this line ...

And following the ignorance, the evasions, and the hypocrisy, we get
the insolence.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

The ironic thing is that even atheists are worshippers. They may not
worship a higher power in the form of a divinity but they do worship
the higher power of Science for example. The vast majority have no
idea what science has proven or discovered, don't understand what has
been "proven", see scientic theories constantly disproven and
re-theorized, yet accept everything they are told with a child-like
faith.

In a strange way it is so much easier to believe most everything is
man-made and we are the masters of the univers. The remainder just
appeared out of nothingness and is headed nowhere. It's no wonder
arrogance is a prime characteristic of a believer that gets crushed and
replaced with a genuine humility.

On Nov 1, 3:51 am, "badgolferman"
wrote:
Roger Pearse, 11/1/2007,6:02:43 AM, wrote:





On 31 Oct, 20:26, real1 wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:50:26 -0700, Roger Pearse

wrote:

[snip]

Indeed not. This is why atheists, invariably proselytising
for conformity to the societal values of the time in which they
happened to be born, can't even state their preferred belief,
never mind offer evidence for it.

And what sort of belief would that be?

QED.

It is characteristic of atheists to be evasive about the belief-system
for which they proselytise, while making demands of others. Of course
this may be because they don't know, but I suspect "don't care" and
"don't want to be questioned" is more accurate.

All "atheism" is is a lack of one particular belief. It does not
indicate the presence of ANY belief.

This is a standard excuse offered by atheists, as a reason why they
don't have to explain, justify, or analyse their beliefs. But the
idea that atheists live without a belief system is risible. Ask how
they live! How do they decide whether to lie or tell the truth?
whether to obey the law or not? etc etc. The beliefs of atheists,
analysed by their behaviour over decades, turn out to be conformity to
some subset of societal values, with a learning in the direction of
unthinking convenience. Needless to say no atheist can even
articulate this.

The idea that atheism is merely a hate-creed with no positive content
is of course plausible to some extent; but then, atheists deny that
too.

As I said, the endless refusal of atheists to put their own beliefs up
for discusion

When challenged they try to find reasons why they
don't have to provide evidence!

Since there's nothing there requiring it.

Like so.

What requires evidence is THEISM (belief in a god or gods).

I.e., someone else. It is difficult not to feel contempt for this
attempt to demand of others what they cannot provide themselves.

Include all your evidence below this line ...

And following the ignorance, the evasions, and the hypocrisy, we get
the insolence.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

The ironic thing is that even atheists are worshippers. They may not
worship a higher power in the form of a divinity but they do worship
the higher power of Science for example. The vast majority have no
idea what science has proven or discovered, don't understand what has
been "proven", see scientic theories constantly disproven and
re-theorized, yet accept everything they are told with a child-like
faith.

In a strange way it is so much easier to believe most everything is
man-made and we are the masters of the univers. The remainder just
appeared out of nothingness and is headed nowhere. It's no wonder
arrogance is a prime characteristic of a believer that gets crushed and
replaced with a genuine humility.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Harry K

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:51:05 -0400, "badgolferman"
wrote:



The ironic thing is that even atheists are worshippers.

LOL!

They may not
worship a higher power in the form of a divinity but they do worship
the higher power of Science for example.

More LOL!

The vast majority have no
idea what science has proven or discovered, don't understand what has
been "proven",

Don't forget that "proof" is essentially a nonsense word.

see scientic theories constantly disproven and
re-theorized,

Makes sense. God and theists never seem to have heard of a thing
called PROGRESS.

yet accept everything they are told with a child-like
faith.


You've already described yourself enough.

In a strange way it is so much easier to believe most everything is
man-made and we are the masters of the univers.

EVEN more LOL!

The remainder just
appeared out of nothingness and is headed nowhere.

Anyone who's just had major surgery shouldn't read your message. All
that LOL would hurt.

It's no wonder
arrogance is a prime characteristic of a believer that gets crushed and
replaced with a genuine humility.

Genuine humility. You sure could use some of that.
--
54 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]


Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.


I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.


People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.


Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.
--
54 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]



Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.
--
54 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]



Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:



On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:





On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:



On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?

On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:
On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:





On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:



On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!

On Nov 3, 7:49 am, wrote:
On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:





On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take your sanctimonious atitude and put it where it will do you some
good.

Harry K

On Nov 3, 11:50 am, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 3, 7:49 am, wrote:



On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take your sanctimonious atitude and put it where it will do you some
good.

Harry K

It has done me some good...and probably you also. : )

On Nov 3, 1:27 pm, wrote:
On Nov 3, 11:50 am, Harry K wrote:





On Nov 3, 7:49 am, wrote:

On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take your sanctimonious atitude and put it where it will do you some
good.

Harry K

It has done me some good...and probably you also. : )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You might note that, due to you, the thread went side ways. You asked
a question, I answered it and in return got sanctimonious BS. You
didn't do what a civilised person would. Namely either repley to the
point or ignore it. Instead you did the usual 'born again' crap.

You are correct. It did do me a lot of good calling you on it in the
first one, and does me even more good pointing out your flaws in this
one.


Harry K

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:00:11 -0700, wrote:

[snip]


The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".


Neither "good" nor "news".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.


Delusion too. Acceptance and trust are good things when applied to
something that ACTUALLY exists in the real world, not just a poor
imitation in your imagination.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?


Yes, the Bible certainly does show a lot of the worst in humanity.
--
52 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 07:49:48 -0700, wrote:

[snip]


There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!

I've had more than enough of those reminders of "Star Trek II" and the
brain-eating worms.
--
52 days until the winter solstice celebration

"DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message
from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive,
please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will
demonstrate."

On Nov 3, 9:08 pm, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 3, 1:27 pm, wrote:



On Nov 3, 11:50 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 7:49 am, wrote:

On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take your sanctimonious atitude and put it where it will do you some
good.

Harry K

It has done me some good...and probably you also. : )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You might note that, due to you, the thread went side ways. You asked
a question, I answered it and in return got sanctimonious BS. You
didn't do what a civilised person would. Namely either repley to the
point or ignore it. Instead you did the usual 'born again' crap.

You are correct. It did do me a lot of good calling you on it in the
first one, and does me even more good pointing out your flaws in this
one.

Harry K

I am human...I am flawed! Woe is me! You need a life other than
usenet. In fact you need an after-life!

On Nov 3, 8:14 pm, wrote:
On Nov 3, 9:08 pm, Harry K wrote:





On Nov 3, 1:27 pm, wrote:

On Nov 3, 11:50 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 7:49 am, wrote:

On Nov 3, 9:38 am, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 3, 6:00 am, wrote:

On Nov 2, 8:55 pm, Harry K wrote:

On Nov 2, 5:13 pm, wrote:

On Nov 2, 12:30 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:38:01 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

On Nov 1, 12:20 pm, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:21:29 -0700, Harry K
wrote:

[snip]

Strange. Science has given us all the modern conveniences. Just what
has religion given us other than constant wars about it?. Just to
cite one field. I will take science's medical knowledge over the
'pray to be cured' any day. I wonder just how far more advanced we
would be were it not for reliegion trying to hold back, and in some
cases outright ban, scietific discoveries.

I have a poster at home, where the left half is labeled "Science
Discoveries", and contains a long list of things like anthrax vaccine,
Brownian motion, and X-rays. The other side is labeled "Creation
Science Discoveries" and is otherwise blank.

As for the 'atheism is a religion'? Give me a break! You have to
believe in something for a religion. Show where we 'believe in
something', conduct rituals, mouth meaningless phrases, pray to
something... then your juvenile complaint will have some foundation.

People will do anything to justify their delusions.

Oh, man is an ape - deal with it.

Of course.

Once I remember hearing how a normal human has approximately the SAME
number of body hairs all over as a chimpanzee of the same size. The
hairs are just thinner, and so less noticeable.

Harry K

BTW, I did not say I knew that "God does not exist" when I was 5. I
said I recognized bull****. That's quite different.

Yep. When I was old enough to recognize the BS in the bible was the
day I began to retreat from religion. Anyone who can read just
Genesis and 'believe it' needs a brain transplant.

Harry K

I had a somewhat different past. I never got to retreat from religion,
since I was never there.

Actually at the age of 5, I didn't think anyone could take such
nonsense seriously.

I wouldn't have read the Bible then (it's NOT a children's book).
That doesn't mean I couldn't recognize spoken BS.

Most likely that (Christianity) was some sort of game (fantasy
role-playing game?) I didn't understand. I never thought I knew
everything, so that wasn't a problem. Several years later, I was
surprised to find that some people seemed to actually take it
seriously.

The story I put on my website
(http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/a.../bull****.html) is the
first 2 chapters of Genesis with some word substitution (leaving in
the weird grammatical stuff of the original). When I got to the 4th
word, what to substitute seemed obvious. The other substitutions
needed to be consistent with that.

I was going to do more, but the source material was getting boring.

This sort of humor does tend to make this stuff a bit more tolerable.
--
53 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"All your western theologies, the whole mythology of them,
are based on the concept of God as a senile delinquent."
-- Tennessee Williams

The unbelievers do believe in a god...themselves.
I think they believe they are unlovable and alienate themselves in a
cerebral prison they have constructed.
The true thinkers (Einstein perhaps) would not stoop to name
calling...they would benevolently leave us no-minders happy in our own
beliefs.
(and definitely NOT capitalize...to make a "point")

May you come to know the Truth...and He will set you free.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The cry of the 'true believer' "Come, join us, be brain washed like
we are" but always be sure to "bring money".

I'll try a question. After 'ye floode', where did the water go?

Harry K

The Old Testament is a basis or guideline...the Gospels are the "Good
News".

There is nothing brain washed about it...there is just an acceptance
and trust.

You characters speak of the worst in every instance...instead of the
best in humanity. How do you live each day without hope?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hope for what? Acceptance that there is no afterlife does not
connotate hoplessness. I have lived amongst the 'true believers' (how
do you know you have the 'one true religions BTW?) all my life. My
hopes and dreams have pretty much came to pass. So have my neighbors
and oddly enough their 'hopes' mirror mine almost exaclty. That I
don't expect anafterlife and they do has nothing to do with 'hopes'
except in that one, very narrow, item.

I realize that for you the thought of not going on is extremely
frightening but you will just have to deal with it.

Harry K

There is always hope for you...all is not lost...May God Bless you and
His Spirit Enlighten you!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take your sanctimonious atitude and put it where it will do you some
good.

Harry K

It has done me some good...and probably you also. : )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You might note that, due to you, the thread went side ways. You asked
a question, I answered it and in return got sanctimonious BS. You
didn't do what a civilised person would. Namely either repley to the
point or ignore it. Instead you did the usual 'born again' crap.

You are correct. It did do me a lot of good calling you on it in the
first one, and does me even more good pointing out your flaws in this
one.

Harry K

I am human...I am flawed! Woe is me! You need a life other than
usenet. In fact you need an after-life!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here is an idea. Why don't you leave by the door over there. Come
back when you understand civilised discourse.

Now I understand the Christian 'turn the other cheek". I have already
kicked three of yours, want to try for the 4th?

Harry K

On Nov 4, 9:12 am, Harry K wrote:

"Here is an idea. Why don't you leave by the door over there. Come
back when you understand civilised discourse.

Now I understand the Christian 'turn the other cheek". I have already
kicked three of yours, want to try for the 4th?"

Harry K

The only thing you have kicked is yourself in the face. You prove and
say nothing. You spew venom and have little worth, intellectually.
I would doubt if you are more than 25, considering your immature
blithering. You live for your computer because it the only thing that
"understands" you.
You have no children because there is no love or giving in you.

I have given you all the attention you deserve...you can go-on and
play with yourself mentally...as you do so well.

I will not reply again, but I know you will...if only to try and save
face.

wrote

I have given you all the attention you deserve...you can go-on and
play with yourself mentally...as you do so well.

I will not reply again, but I know you will...if only to try and save
face.

Learn what the rest of us have. Harry K is just a bothersome buzzing fly
who likes to hear himself.

Steve