If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

If at one receptacle, you wired the hot wires to the neutral side and the
neutral wires to the hot side, it would only affect things plugged into that
outlet. You can buy a plug in outlet tester to prove out all the outlets



"John Ross" wrote in message
ps.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

RBM remove this wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
ps.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

If at one receptacle, you wired the hot wires to the neutral side and the
neutral wires to the hot side, it would only affect things plugged into that
outlet. You can buy a plug in outlet tester to prove out all the outlets


That's a relief! I had a few receptacles in a room replaced and at
least one was wired backward. So I was concerned the newly correctly
wired ones may still be "wrong."

These are 2 prong outlets. Those testers are for 3. Is there a way to
test the 2 prong outlets? I should note that the screw on the plate
does NOT provide a ground.
--
John

In article . com,
John Ross wrote:

RBM remove this wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
ps.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

If at one receptacle, you wired the hot wires to the neutral side and the
neutral wires to the hot side, it would only affect things plugged into that
outlet. You can buy a plug in outlet tester to prove out all the outlets


That's a relief! I had a few receptacles in a room replaced and at
least one was wired backward. So I was concerned the newly correctly
wired ones may still be "wrong."

These are 2 prong outlets. Those testers are for 3. Is there a way to
test the 2 prong outlets? I should note that the screw on the plate
does NOT provide a ground.
--
John

Tester schmester. Just connect a voltmeter to a ground somewhere in the
house, and check the voltage on each side of the outlet. Obviously you
should see 120 V on the hot and approximately zero on the neutral.

"John Ross" wrote in message
ups.com...


RBM remove this wrote:
"John Ross" wrote in message
ps.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

If at one receptacle, you wired the hot wires to the neutral side and the
neutral wires to the hot side, it would only affect things plugged into
that
outlet. You can buy a plug in outlet tester to prove out all the outlets


That's a relief! I had a few receptacles in a room replaced and at
least one was wired backward. So I was concerned the newly correctly
wired ones may still be "wrong."

How old is the wiring in this house?

easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

s


"John Ross" wrote in message
ps.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and the
boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

John Ross wrote:


These are 2 prong outlets. Those testers are for 3. Is there a way to
test the 2 prong outlets?
John

You can use a neon tester
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...entPage=family
The neon 'lamp' has 2 parallel rods and it glows orange on voltage (like
a neon sign). Plug one lead into a receptacle slot and touch the other
lead. The lamp will glow *very dimly* if the slot is 'hot'. You probably
will have to cup you hand around it to block other light. These lamps
work at very low current and can light even if you are insulated from
everything (capacitive current).

There are also many 'non-contact' voltage detectors like
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/gree...9022/?ref=base
that light up or make sound when placed at the 'hot' receptacle slot.
(Some may have to be closer to the conductor - don't know about this one.)

--
bud--

Right you are. I hadn't read the OP's second message.

s

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and
the boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

On Oct 26, 11:22 am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...

easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and the
boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

Get a non-contact voltage tester. Hot side will make it beep, neutral
side will not.

http://tinyurl.com/2vwbdg

Ken

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and the
boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

A mess? My how we love to dramatize. If he has 120 VAC or thereabouts at
the outlet, he's good to go. I've said it before, grounding is way
overrated, and polarity, too. I replaced most of my two prong outlets
with three prong outlets just so I didn't have to keep breaking off
those pesky ground prongs. But I don't care about them not actually
being grounded.

You code addicts can wire your homes anyway you want. 120VAC doesn't
make me the least bit nervous.

I tend to agree with you except for one scenario. I have rentals, and if
there is a three hole outlet, I suspect it better damn well be properly
wired. Otherwise, I suspect, i could be held liable if someone gets
shocked.

whatta ya think?


steve


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and
the
boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

A mess? My how we love to dramatize. If he has 120 VAC or thereabouts at
the outlet, he's good to go. I've said it before, grounding is way
overrated, and polarity, too. I replaced most of my two prong outlets
with three prong outlets just so I didn't have to keep breaking off
those pesky ground prongs. But I don't care about them not actually
being grounded.

You code addicts can wire your homes anyway you want. 120VAC doesn't
make me the least bit nervous.

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross
wrote:

If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.
--
60 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross
wrote:

If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also have
juice at the neutral side as well?
Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?

Tnx
Gary

It only affects the outlets that you connect the wires incorrectly on. The
hot wire stay hot, and the neutral stays neutral. If you reversed the "load"
connections, then you'd be running your hot through a white wire, and
neutral through a black or colored wire



"G Wood" wrote in message
...
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also have
juice at the neutral side as well?
Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?

Tnx
Gary

G Wood wrote:

OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also
have juice at the neutral side as well?
Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?


If one outlet can have the lines switched, a downstream outlet can have them
switched again.

Two prongs make a right.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

G Wood wrote:

OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also
have juice at the neutral side as well?
Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?


If one outlet can have the lines switched, a downstream outlet can have them
switched again.

Two prongs make a right.

Go to your room, young man!!! (g).

Kurt (A good pun is in the ARGGGHHH!!! of the beholder) Ullman

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 10:15:55 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.


These require ground to be connected properly, in order to detect a
hot/neutral reversal.

s


"John Ross" wrote in message
ups.com...
If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.
--
John


--
60 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:23:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross
wrote:

If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

Is that supposed to be saying something?
--
60 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:40:28 -0700, "G Wood" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also have
juice at the neutral side as well?

It could be miswired too, correcting (for the second outlet) the first
miswiring. In that case, correcting only the first would make the
second one wrong.

Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?


I know someone who recently said that it didn't matter which wire (hot
or neutral) was connected where. Not with AC.

He didn't know much.

Tnx
Gary

--
60 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

HeyBub wrote:
G Wood wrote:
OK, no troll, I'm confused.

If you have two outlets on a circuit, and outlet one has hot wired to
neutral, would it not make sense that the downstream plug will also
have juice at the neutral side as well?
Or are you implying that it just really isn't an issue when plugging
something into either outlet?


If one outlet can have the lines switched, a downstream outlet can have them
switched again.

Two prongs make a right.


As long as they match colors on the sides of the outlets, if one is
miswired, the downstream ones can still be okay. If they cross colors at
an upstream outlet, you are screwed. When I replaced about 16 2-holers
with 3-holers here (grounded metal boxes, grounded romex, luckily),
about half were polarity-reversed 'as found'. No apparent pattern, or
effect from one box to next. Just made sure they all had the same color
wires on the same color screws, and the little 3-prong idiot meter
happily lit up green on all of them.

aem sends....

In article ,
"Steve Barker" wrote:

I tend to agree with you except for one scenario. I have rentals, and if
there is a three hole outlet, I suspect it better damn well be properly
wired. Otherwise, I suspect, i could be held liable if someone gets
shocked.

whatta ya think?


steve


I agree.


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
easy enough to check. get a plug in tester.

Read the other messages. He said he has nothing but 2 prong outlets, and
the
boxes aren't grounded. He's got a mess on his hands.

A mess? My how we love to dramatize. If he has 120 VAC or thereabouts at
the outlet, he's good to go. I've said it before, grounding is way
overrated, and polarity, too. I replaced most of my two prong outlets
with three prong outlets just so I didn't have to keep breaking off
those pesky ground prongs. But I don't care about them not actually
being grounded.

You code addicts can wire your homes anyway you want. 120VAC doesn't
make me the least bit nervous.

In article , Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 19:23:00 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:
On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:03:04 -0700, John Ross
wrote:

If one or more receptacles are wired backward (hot wires on neutral
side and vice versa), can that affect other outlets on that circuit?

I guess I am confused since they are wired together through the
receptacles is it possible to introduce current to the neutral wire
(which would then screw up the next one)?. I was wondering if doing
one wrong could cause a ripple effect so that even if another is wired
correctly (black wires to hot side and white wires to neutral side),
it may not in fact be functionally correct.

Or does the backward wired one(s) only affect itself and the others
are fine? Note: There would be NO GFCI's in this scenario.

Think about it. If you have one receptacle wired to another, and the
first is wired wrong it is not a "correct" source for feeding the
other.

You need to think about it a little more yourself.

Is that supposed to be saying something?

It's telling you that before you tell someone else to "Think about it" you
should first spend the time to think it through yourself -- which you
obviously didn't.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

bud-- wrote:
John Ross wrote:


These are 2 prong outlets. Those testers are for 3. Is there a way to
test the 2 prong outlets?
John

You can use a neon tester
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...entPage=family
The neon 'lamp' has 2 parallel rods and it glows orange on voltage (like
a neon sign). Plug one lead into a receptacle slot and touch the other
lead. The lamp will glow *very dimly* if the slot is 'hot'. You probably
will have to cup you hand around it to block other light. These lamps
work at very low current and can light even if you are insulated from
everything (capacitive current).

OK, Bud, you want me to place one lead in a socket and touch the other
lead to myself? I think a little bit of explanation is needed before I
would do that!

And how come everyone else says you need a ground for those to work?

There are also many 'non-contact' voltage detectors like
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/gree...9022/?ref=base
that light up or make sound when placed at the 'hot' receptacle slot.
(Some may have to be closer to the conductor - don't know about this one.)

Have you ever tried that? I saw an eletrician with one of those, and
when it was about a few inches from the *entire* outlet, it went off.

--
John

John Ross wrote:

bud-- wrote:
John Ross wrote:

These are 2 prong outlets. Those testers are for 3. Is there a way to
test the 2 prong outlets?
John
You can use a neon tester
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...entPage=family
The neon 'lamp' has 2 parallel rods and it glows orange on voltage (like
a neon sign). Plug one lead into a receptacle slot and touch the other
lead. The lamp will glow *very dimly* if the slot is 'hot'. You probably
will have to cup you hand around it to block other light. These lamps
work at very low current and can light even if you are insulated from
everything (capacitive current).

OK, Bud, you want me to place one lead in a socket and touch the other
lead to myself? I think a little bit of explanation is needed before I
would do that!

*Neon* test lights operate at very low currents (well under 0.001A
IIRC). I believe they have a resistor of around 200,000 Ohms in series
with the lamp. If one hand was well grounded and the other hand touched
the 2nd lead the current would be so small you probably couldn't feel
it. If you are fairly well insulated the current is miniscule (so is the
light). (You and the 'real world' form a capacitor and the very small
current flows through the capacitor.)

Since I use these testers often, I am rather picky what I buy.


And how come everyone else says you need a ground for those to work?

Ask them. I have never owned a 3 prong outlet tester. I always carry a
neon test light which is smaller and more versatile. If a circuit is
"dead" I typically use the tester to check if there is a hot (open neutral).


There are also many 'non-contact' voltage detectors like
http://www.toolbarn.com/product/gree...9022/?ref=base
that light up or make sound when placed at the 'hot' receptacle slot.
(Some may have to be closer to the conductor - don't know about this one.)

Have you ever tried that? I saw an eletrician with one of those, and
when it was about a few inches from the *entire* outlet, it went off.

It works with the one I use. If it is too sensitive you may not be able
to distinguish. You may be able to approach the receptacle from the
sides and get an indication. With the outlet pulled out they will give a
reliable indication at the terminals. Great for knob-and-tube wiring to
pick the hot (neon can also be used as above if the conductor is available).

--
bud--