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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

I dont live in or near California, but I am constantly seeing
disasters in that state which in my opinion are due to stupidity in
construction. Why so the building inspectors allow buildings to be
built on steep hillsides? How many of these homes have slid down the
hills in recent years? From watching the news, it would seem that
there have been many. Now we have this firestorm. I do understand
that the firestorm is a natural disaster (except those intentionally
set according to the news reports).

The part that gets me is why are so many homes burning? We live in a
time when every wirenut in our electrical system needs to be approved,
and we can not even erect a simple shed without some sort of approval
to insure it's safe. Installing a wood stove involves a major amount
of paperwork, inspections, and most insurance companies won't even
allow them without a huge increase in the cost of the policy.

I do understand that we all need to be safe, and the average homeowner
needs to be inspected since most people do not know proper building
methods, and there are lots of professional contractors who want to
make an extra buck and use inferior materials or cut corners which can
be a safety risk. At the same time, some of these rules can be
rediculous and very nit-picky, causing added expense and hassles to
the home owner.

With that said, it seems that the biggest reasons for these major
fires in CA are not faulty wiring or causes INSIDE the home, but these
firestorms. Therefore, would it not make sense to require a certain
amount of open (mowed) space around buildings in areas prone to these
firestorms, or at least prevent them from burning the buildings.

It seems to me that the inspectors overdo it as far as small details
within homes but ignore the external causes. Not everyone is the
country is in a firestorm area, but those that are should be reqired
to maintain some space. This only makes sense.
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wrote:
I dont live in or near California, but I am constantly seeing
disasters in that state which in my opinion are due to stupidity in
construction. Why so the building inspectors allow buildings to be
built on steep hillsides? How many of these homes have slid down the
hills in recent years?


Nothing wrong with building on a hillside, it's how you do it.
Appeareantly homebuilders have never heard of "pilings".



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wrote in message
...
I dont live in or near California, but I am constantly seeing
disasters in that state which in my opinion are due to stupidity in
construction.


I hear you but you ought to expand your question to other areas such as
flood planes, hurricane risk areas, etc.

What really burns me up (no pun intended) is that people knowingly build in
high risk areas and when the inevitable disaster strikes, they expect and
demand that they get bailed out by tax payer dollars. Ditto for subprime
loan victims. "You take the risk; you pay the price."

And our politicians won't draw the line for fear they'll lose votes.

There! I feel somewhat better.


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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

On Oct 25, 5:12 pm, "DonC" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I dont live in or near California, but I am constantly seeing
disasters in that state which in my opinion are due to stupidity in
construction.


I hear you but you ought to expand your question to other areas such as
flood planes, hurricane risk areas, etc.

What really burns me up (no pun intended) is that people knowingly build in
high risk areas and when the inevitable disaster strikes, they expect and
demand that they get bailed out by tax payer dollars. Ditto for subprime
loan victims. "You take the risk; you pay the price."

And our politicians won't draw the line for fear they'll lose votes.

There! I feel somewhat better.



If you want to go further down this route, then you could easily say
nothing should be built in most of CA at all, because of the known
earthquake risk.

In the case of the fires, there isn't an easy solution. If you
required open spaces with nothing that will burn in them around each
building they would have to be quite large to be effective. Think
about what that would look like where you live. You'd have the new
subdivision look, where some developer either buys an open farm tract
or else clear cuts every tree in sight, and you wind up with a bunch
of houses where you have zero privacy. Look out your back window and
all you see is the house behind you. And if you did that in CA it
would create other issues, like erosion, mudslides in hills, loss of
more wildlife habitat, etc.

So far the last count I heard was they were up to 1600 homes lost.
Which sounds bad and is certainly one of the worst. But it's not
unprecedented compared to other events, like huricanes or earthquakes.

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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:19:55 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Santa Anna winds can blow embers for two miles. When these embers land on a
cedar shake roof, well, there goes the house!


Notice how many burnt/burning homes have a tile (terra cotta) roof?
Embers get under these, right to the plywood sheathing.

--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"
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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?


Dave Bugg wrote in message ...
Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under

by all
the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the problem stems

from the
inability of landowners to properly control the underbrush, grasses,

weeds,
and other flammable vegetation. Their hands have been tied by the

'green'
movement.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com



That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only
home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of a
homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he was
*supposed* to.

Cheri


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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?


h wrote in message ...

"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote in message
...

Dave Bugg wrote in message ...
Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under

by all
the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the problem stems

from the
inability of landowners to properly control the underbrush,

grasses,
weeds,
and other flammable vegetation. Their hands have been tied by the

'green'
movement.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com



That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only
home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of

a
homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he

was
*supposed* to.

Cheri



Okkaaay, so how about commenting about why these idiots live in these

areas
in the first place? There are lots of placed ill-suited to human

habitation;


Hey, you will get no argument from me there. Same thing in the San
Francisco Hills, the homes slide off, and they rebuild.

Cheri


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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 19:38:28 -0400, h wrote:


"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote in message
...

Dave Bugg wrote in message ...
Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under

by all
the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the problem stems

from the
inability of landowners to properly control the underbrush, grasses,

weeds,
and other flammable vegetation. Their hands have been tied by the

'green'
movement.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com



That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only
home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of a
homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he was
*supposed* to.

Cheri



Okkaaay, so how about commenting about why these idiots live in these areas
in the first place? There are lots of placed ill-suited to human habitation;
Mississippi flood plain, a LOT of SoCal, tornado alley, and most of Florida,
yet people continue to build there and the gubmint continues to bail them
out every single time. It's ridiculous that those of us living in sensible
places with no tornados, floods, mudslides, wildfires, hurricanes, etc. have
to fund the constant re-building of those who insist on living where they
shouldn't. You want to live there, great, but I'm NOT going to pay for it.
Yes, we have the occasional flood here in upstate NY, but only the 10-20
homes of idiots who feel compelled to live right ON the river. Why should
they be allowed to do this and still get bailed out by the gubmint? While
it's great farmland, no one should have a house on the Mississippi flood
plain for just this reason. Crops, sure. Houses, not so much. Same with much
of SoCal. It burns, it slides, it quakes, DON'T LIVE THERE. Duh.


Do you depend on your local "gubmint" to fix and repair roads in New
York (upstate) ? Who takes away downed trees from blizzards?

Californians: coming to an area near you, soon!


--
Oren

"Painting is the art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critics."
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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:25:42 -0700, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only
home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of a
homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he was
*supposed* to.

Cheri


CA or NV side of the lake?

--
Oren

"Painting is the art of protecting flat surfaces from the weather and exposing them to the critics."


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On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:24:38 GMT, M Q
wrote:

wrote:

I dont live in or near California,

Apparently not.

... From watching the news, it would seem that

...
Ah, that is the problem.
If the only get your information from watching the news,
you would think that:
1) Most all buildings in the southeast were destroyed by hurricanes in the past
ten years
2) Most all homes in the midwest were destroyed by tornadoes.
3) The only homes in California that didn't get flattened by an earthquake
in the past decade or two, have since been destroyed by fire.
4) The northeast is still digging out from last winters blizzards.
(well, ok, may not that -- they dug out by June).
5) Most of the rest of the country lives in flood plains and get flooded every
other year.


THEN THE SOLUTION IS TO STOP BUILDING EVERYWHERE IN THE USA.

ATTENTION AMERICANS,
Everyone must abandom their homes now. You have 24 hours to evacuate.
This is a new law, and since I am chief head of the government.
Anyone who does not leave within 24 hours will be arrested and go to
prison. LEAVE NOW.

Seriously, we, as the rest of the country, have occasional
"natural" disasters. Some homes are better built or situated
to withstand these than others. We all get hurt as insurance
companies indiscriminately overreact to the latest disaster.


California must be abandoned entirely. We'll just push it into the
ocean, drop a few nukes on it, and get it over with.

As you leave, please deposit your firearms in the provided dumpsters.
We will no longer allow anyone to own firearms in order to prevent
looting and killings.

Dick Cheney
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wrote in message
...
I dont live in or near California,

The part that gets me is why are so many homes burning? We live in a
time when every wirenut in our electrical system needs to be approved,
and we can not even erect a simple shed without some sort of approval
to insure it's safe. Installing a wood stove involves a major amount
of paperwork, inspections, and most insurance companies won't even
allow them without a huge increase in the cost of the policy.


It is evident you don't live there and have never visted the places in
question. Especially during the Santa Ana winds.




With that said, it seems that the biggest reasons for these major
fires in CA are not faulty wiring or causes INSIDE the home, but these
firestorms. Therefore, would it not make sense to require a certain
amount of open (mowed) space around buildings in areas prone to these
firestorms, or at least prevent them from burning the buildings.


Uh, they do and yes, it helps.



It seems to me that the inspectors overdo it as far as small details
within homes but ignore the external causes. Not everyone is the
country is in a firestorm area, but those that are should be reqired
to maintain some space. This only makes sense.


Perhaps you should tell them. I bet they never thought of that. Wow,
thanks for the tip and I'll pass it on to my relatives in the San Diego
area. Since you are willing to share this tip, how much space do you think
should be kept clear when 90 mph winds with 5% RH are carrying hot embers?



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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:19:55 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Santa Anna winds can blow embers for two miles. When these embers
land on a cedar shake roof, well, there goes the house!


Notice how many burnt/burning homes have a tile (terra cotta) roof?
Embers get under these, right to the plywood sheathing.


Yep. We're talking 40, 50, 60MPH winds.

Still, I saw two guys with water hoses, buckets of water, shovels and hoes
save their two house while the rest on the street burned down.

Another interesting little tidbit; people loaded up their cars with their
important stuff, but didn't have enough family members to drive all the
cars.

House gone, cars full of stuff (mostly) untouched.

One doesn't normally thing of an automobile as a fire-proof vault. But it
is.


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h wrote:


Okkaaay, so how about commenting about why these idiots live in these
areas in the first place? There are lots of placed ill-suited to
human habitation; Mississippi flood plain, a LOT of SoCal, tornado
alley, and most of Florida, yet people continue to build there and
the gubmint continues to bail them out every single time. It's
ridiculous that those of us living in sensible places with no
tornados, floods, mudslides, wildfires, hurricanes, etc. have to fund
the constant re-building of those who insist on living where they
shouldn't. You want to live there, great, but I'm NOT going to pay
for it. Yes, we have the occasional flood here in upstate NY, but
only the 10-20 homes of idiots who feel compelled to live right ON
the river. Why should they be allowed to do this and still get bailed
out by the gubmint? While it's great farmland, no one should have a
house on the Mississippi flood plain for just this reason. Crops,
sure. Houses, not so much. Same with much of SoCal. It burns, it
slides, it quakes, DON'T LIVE THERE. Duh.


I'm sure upstate New York is a lovely place.

But turn the question around: Why is upstate New York so ghastly that people
would rather live in the New Orleans 9th Ward?




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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

HeyBub wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:19:55 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:
Santa Anna winds can blow embers for two miles. When these embers
land on a cedar shake roof, well, there goes the house!

Notice how many burnt/burning homes have a tile (terra cotta) roof?
Embers get under these, right to the plywood sheathing.


Yep. We're talking 40, 50, 60MPH winds.

Still, I saw two guys with water hoses, buckets of water, shovels and hoes
save their two house while the rest on the street burned down.

Another interesting little tidbit; people loaded up their cars with their
important stuff, but didn't have enough family members to drive all the
cars.

House gone, cars full of stuff (mostly) untouched.

One doesn't normally thing of an automobile as a fire-proof vault. But it
is.


As long as the water holds and you're successful, that works. If water
should happen to fail or an ember gets ahead of you, you're likely toast
along w/ the house. Pretty major risk although just how much depends
greatly on whether there is or isn't a reliable escape route. As one of
the silly network reporters learned on a piece of film I saw, a road
down one of those canyons can turn from a windy drive to sheer terror
real quick...

Saw lots of cars that were crispy meltdowns, too. All depends on what
surrounds them.

Folks around here in the KS/TX/OK grass fires a winter ago couldn't
outrun flame front in automobiles/jeeps in flat mostly flat open
pastures, what more up and down mountainous terrain.

We're just waiting for the next doofus to throw a cigarette out a car
window and the whole county around here is ready to go up too. To top
it off, pheasant season starts next weekend w/ no sign of any moisture
which will bring all the city slickers out who have _no_ clue what a
grass fire will/can do...

--
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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

DA had written this in response to
http://thestuccocompany.com/maintena...rs-261311-.htm
:
Dave Bugg wrote:

Nope, that isn't the issue at all. The issue are is regulations
prohibiting
mechanical clearing of the grounds of high brush and tilling the ground
for
firebreaks where it would be appropriate.



You must have missed this little detail from all the news: with 100MPH
winds you can't clear enough land around every house to prevent the fire
from spreading so quick.

I have just returned from a trip to San Diego, interrupted by the fire of
course, and I can say that people live there because it's a beautiful
place. The weather is just right, the scenery is perfect and there is no
reason Southern CA should be less livable than the NE. They will rebuild
the houses like they always do.

Well, I guess next time the landscapers should probably go little easier
on eucalypt trees. The peeling bark looks like paper and I'm pretty sure
catches on fire just as quick as paper. Then there might be other benefits
(like drought resistance) that might outweigh the fire risk, but it seem a
bit scary to have a tree like that next to your house in a fire like that.


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DA wrote:
DA had written this in response to
http://thestuccocompany.com/maintena...rs-261311-.htm

Dave Bugg wrote:

Nope, that isn't the issue at all. The issue are is regulations
prohibiting
mechanical clearing of the grounds of high brush and tilling the
ground for
firebreaks where it would be appropriate.


You must have missed this little detail from all the news: with 100MPH
winds you can't clear enough land around every house to prevent the
fire from spreading so quick.


Nope, didn't miss that at all.

I have just returned from a trip to San Diego, interrupted by the
fire of course, and I can say that people live there because it's a
beautiful place. The weather is just right, the scenery is perfect
and there is no reason Southern CA should be less livable than the
NE. They will rebuild the houses like they always do.


Prolly.

Well, I guess next time the landscapers should probably go little
easier on eucalypt trees. The peeling bark looks like paper and I'm
pretty sure catches on fire just as quick as paper. Then there might
be other benefits (like drought resistance) that might outweigh the
fire risk, but it seem a bit scary to have a tree like that next to
your house in a fire like that.


If you think birch bark is a good fire starter, eucalyptus is absolutely
volcanic. And the oils in the tree really keep things flaming, too.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:47:42 -0700, "Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom
wrote:


h wrote in message ...

"Cheri" gserviceatinreachdotcom wrote in message
m...

Dave Bugg wrote in message ...
Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under
by all
the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the problem stems
from the
inability of landowners to properly control the underbrush,

grasses,
weeds,
and other flammable vegetation. Their hands have been tied by the
'green'
movement.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


That's true Dave. Last year during the Tahoe fires, about the only
home that made it through the fire in one neighborhood, was that of

a
homeowner that went against the regs and cleared much more than he

was
*supposed* to.

Cheri



Okkaaay, so how about commenting about why these idiots live in these

areas
in the first place? There are lots of placed ill-suited to human

habitation;


Hey, you will get no argument from me there. Same thing in the San
Francisco Hills, the homes slide off, and they rebuild.

Cheri


If I knew there was a fire storm coming toward my house, I'd rent a
bulldozer and rip down all the trees and brush for a mile in all
directions.
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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

all new and or replacement homes should be mandated built of concrete.
steel reinforced, very sttrong, good for 300 MPH winds, excellent
energy efficency, foam inside concrete.

concrete homes wouldnt burn, at least not the outside. with storm
shutters many homes could of survived.

concrete homes look just like wood stick built ones, and will last
forever

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In article ,
"Dave Bugg" wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Dave Bugg" wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:36:03 -0700, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Ahhh, you aren't aware of the restrictions landowners are put under
by all the 'environmental' regulations, are you? Much of the
problem stems from the inability of landowners to properly control
the underbrush, grasses, weeds, and other flammable vegetation.
Their hands have been tied by the 'green' movement.

I agree "environmerntalSM" is a cult religion but there are
responsible ecologists

My comment wasn't directed at responsible ecologists.

I'm sure there were educated ecologists who wanted to do small
prescribed burns around those houses and the homeowners wouldn't let
them because they did not want the smoke and to have to look at
burned ground for a couple months.

Nope, that isn't the issue at all. The issue are is regulations
prohibiting mechanical clearing of the grounds of high brush and
tilling the ground for firebreaks where it would be appropriate.


Where on earth did you get that ridiculous idea?


From friends who were slapped with a 25000 fine for doing so.


So we have one anecdotal piece of evidence. We have no idea what,
exactly, your friends did to incur that fine. But, as I said in my other
post, homeowners are absolutely required to keep brush trimmed, and it's
strictly monitored and enforced.


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dpb wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:19:55 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:
Santa Anna winds can blow embers for two miles. When these embers
land on a cedar shake roof, well, there goes the house!
Notice how many burnt/burning homes have a tile (terra cotta) roof?
Embers get under these, right to the plywood sheathing.


Yep. We're talking 40, 50, 60MPH winds.

Still, I saw two guys with water hoses, buckets of water, shovels
and hoes save their two house while the rest on the street burned
down. Another interesting little tidbit; people loaded up their cars with
their important stuff, but didn't have enough family members to
drive all the cars.

House gone, cars full of stuff (mostly) untouched.

One doesn't normally thing of an automobile as a fire-proof vault.
But it is.


As long as the water holds and you're successful, that works. If
water should happen to fail or an ember gets ahead of you, you're
likely toast along w/ the house. Pretty major risk although just how
much depends greatly on whether there is or isn't a reliable escape
route. As one of the silly network reporters learned on a piece of
film I saw, a road down one of those canyons can turn from a windy
drive to sheer terror real quick...


Swimming pool, generator, pump?


Saw lots of cars that were crispy meltdowns, too. All depends on what
surrounds them.


Agreed. Still, there were cars parked on the street virtually untouched
while all around was gone.

We're just waiting for the next doofus to throw a cigarette out a car
window and the whole county around here is ready to go up too.


Don't worry about that. Cigarette smokers are some of the most responsible
people on the planet. Be worried about arson.

To top
it off, pheasant season starts next weekend w/ no sign of any moisture
which will bring all the city slickers out who have _no_ clue what a
grass fire will/can do...


Hunters, too, are much more aware of their surroundings and consequences
than your ordinary doofus. For example there's Dick Cheney...

Wait. Never mind...


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In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


Swimming pool, generator, pump?


With a fire that is not all that contained by multiple 1500 gpm
pumpers using tanker shuttles? Good luck.


Don't worry about that. Cigarette smokers are some of the most responsible
people on the planet. Be worried about arson.


But it only takes one. The big three in wildfires last time I looked
around were lightening, cigs, and arsons.
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HeyBub wrote:
dpb wrote:

....
We're just waiting for the next doofus to throw a cigarette out a car
window and the whole county around here is ready to go up too.


Don't worry about that. Cigarette smokers are some of the most responsible
people on the planet. ...


Certainly not in my experience. Their second behind the even dumber
doofus'es who drive down the road waving Roman candles out the car
windows over the Fourth weekend...

To top
it off, pheasant season starts next weekend w/ no sign of any moisture
which will bring all the city slickers out who have _no_ clue what a
grass fire will/can do...


Hunters, too, are much more aware of their surroundings and consequences...


"Cheney"-type incidents are _far_ less of an issue than the ones who cut
fences, leave gates open, drive across tinderbox-dry tall grass, etc.,
etc., etc., ...

--
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h wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

But turn the question around: Why is upstate New York so ghastly that
people would rather live in the New Orleans 9th Ward?

Huh? I was born in New Orleans and I happen to live in NY now. LA is
hot, humid, and really great. NY is hot, humid and really great, but
NY is hot and humid for MUCH less of the year, so I don't live in LA
anymore. Most people tend to stay where they are born. People with
brains make a choice. Some choose to stay, many choose to go to more
livable places. Plonk.


Fran Liebowitz, a fellow New Yorker, opined "The outdoors is something
through which I pass on my way from my apartment to my car."

Any place is "livable" if you stay inside.

The "Great Outdoors" is for beavers and ducks.

And those who like to fondle beavers and ducks.




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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


Swimming pool, generator, pump?


With a fire that is not all that contained by multiple 1500 gpm
pumpers using tanker shuttles? Good luck.


Right, but the pumper trucks are for BIG fires. This guy said he and his
neighbor scurried about dousing little fires so they never became big ones.
Put out hundreds and hundreds of embers, they did.


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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

According to :
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 18:05:06 -0700, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:


Nope, that isn't the issue at all. The issue are is regulations prohibiting
mechanical clearing of the grounds of high brush and tilling the ground for
firebreaks where it would be appropriate.


Why would you use mechanical means when fire is the ecologically and
historic way of holding down the fuel. It leaves most of the nutrients
in the soil so you get fresh growth to stop erosion but not enough to
keep much of a fire going.


Because fire isn't very safe in built-up areas. It has a tendancy
to do things you don't want it to. Controlled burns sometimes
get out of hand.

"Smokey Bear" was probably the worst idea in forest management we ever
had. People started thinking all fire was bad and put them all out so
we ended up with bad fires that we couldn't put out.


Yes. But it's not an option in built-up areas.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Default CA. Fires - What's wrong with the inspectors?

dpb wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
dpb wrote:

...
We're just waiting for the next doofus to throw a cigarette out a
car window and the whole county around here is ready to go up too.


Don't worry about that. Cigarette smokers are some of the most
responsible people on the planet. ...


Certainly not in my experience. Their second behind the even dumber
doofus'es who drive down the road waving Roman candles out the car
windows over the Fourth weekend...


Cigarette smokers generally only light up to cover the smell.

When some officious granny-lady whacks me with her umbrella and demands that
I extinguish my smoke, I politely respond:

"I am a grenade and this cigarette is the pin. Now you have to ask yourself
one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you, punk?"


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h wrote:
...
We're just waiting for the next doofus to throw a cigarette out a
car window and the whole county around here is ready to go up too.

Don't worry about that. Cigarette smokers are some of the most
responsible people on the planet. ...


Right. Smokers think the world is their ashtray. If I had a dollar
for every lit cigarette I've seen tossed out the window of a car in
front of me, I could retire. Smoking is disgusting, stinky,
expensive, and fatal, yet these idiots persist. Smokers are stupid,
and ya can't fix stupid.


It's all right. They're French.


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