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Default PEX piping question

I want to redo the piping to one bathroom plus a garden hose bib. My
neighbor has a Wirsbo tool with both 1/2" and 3/4" expanders. BTW, this is
code legal and standard practice in my County. Job is under-house with
generous workspace.

Question:

I know what to do if I were using copper. With PEX do I simply run supply
lines (hot and cold) to the vicinity of the fixtures and then change over to
copper for the risers? Do I buy a manifold and split the PEX near the
bathroom and run individual PEX lines to the fixtures? BTW, the bathroom is
being gutted and I will have access to all of the walls.
It would be nice to have no copper under the house due to freezing, although
no pipes have frozen in the last 20± years.

Please advise as to common practice.

Thanks you very much,

Ivan Vegvary


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Default PEX piping question

On Oct 20, 8:56 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
I want to redo the piping to one bathroom plus a garden hose bib. My
neighbor has a Wirsbo tool with both 1/2" and 3/4" expanders. BTW, this is
code legal and standard practice in my County. Job is under-house with
generous workspace.

Question:

I know what to do if I were using copper. With PEX do I simply run supply
lines (hot and cold) to the vicinity of the fixtures and then change over to
copper for the risers? Do I buy a manifold and split the PEX near the
bathroom and run individual PEX lines to the fixtures? BTW, the bathroom is
being gutted and I will have access to all of the walls.
It would be nice to have no copper under the house due to freezing, although
no pipes have frozen in the last 20± years.

Please advise as to common practice.

Thanks you very much,

Ivan Vegvary


That's a whole lot of questions...unfortunately the answer.....it
depends.

Depends on the house / bathroom (& kitchen / laundry) layout.

The layout for a 1 1/2 story house with stacked bathrooms would be
(should be) different than a spread out ranch style.

The house I just did was a 1 1/2 story house with stacked bathrooms.
I put the manifolds in the tiny utility basement with the water heater
& did home runs to every fixture.

Maximum wait time for hot water (kitchen & laundry) is 15 seconds.
Upstairs bathroom wait time is less than 10 seconds.

A spread out floor plan might benefit from a remote manifold (if there
are mulitple bathrooms far from the water service & water heater). A
hot water circulating systems might also be a good idea.

I had a different house but sold it before the re-pipe. The galv pipe
was so badly choked & the runs so long that the hot water wait time
was 120 seconds! I had planned remote manifolds to service to back
to back bathrooms. Total demand was 7 colds & 5 hots...so manifolds
make sense.


My bias is towards an easily accesible manifold with home runs, only
connections at manifold & fixture shut off.

As to copper risers, PEX can easily make the sweep bend up through the
wall plates. Metal & PVC sweep supports exist. I prefer to use all
plastic PVC electrical conduit to protect the PEX (no kinking on bend
& acts as a sleeve through the plate)

I got my stuff from pexsupply.com they have all sorts of fittings,
even PEX drop ear elbow for threaded stubs or PEX "bullet" stye
terminations.

PEX may be more freeze tolerant but its not "freeze-proof"

cheers
Bob



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Default PEX piping question


"BobK207" wrote in message
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Depends on the house / bathroom (& kitchen / laundry) layout.

Bob, thank you so much for your reply.

My bathroom is 20 feet away from the water heater and cold water source.
Ranch style, single story, furthest bathroom from source. Please explain
the use of manifolds. Is this simply PEX's way of not using a bunch of
Tee's. In copper I would have multiple Tee's near the source and then send
individual runs to the fixtures. I guess "multiple Tee's" is the same as a
manifold. Are we talking about the same thing?

Additionally, you mentioned running PEX up through the floor to the fixture.
I imagine they make a fitting to go from PEX to the threaded fittings on the
shut-off valves.

Thank you again for your support and answers.


Ivan Vegvary


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Default PEX piping question

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

With PEX do I simply run supply
lines (hot and cold) to the vicinity of the fixtures and then change over to
copper for the risers?


That's what they did for my new construction. Actually ran PEX up the inside
wall and then used a copper tail through the drywall.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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Default PEX piping question

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:10:55 GMT, "Ivan Vegvary"
wrote:

Please explain
the use of manifolds


Here is an install manual for my brand of PEX. ( demonstrates
connections, stub-out methods, part numbers, etc.)

2+ MB file ...

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/manua...ock_manual.pdf


--
Oren

"I wouldn't even be here if my support group hadn't beaten me up."


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Default PEX piping question

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Please explain the use of manifolds. Is this simply PEX's way of not using a bunch of
Tee's. In copper I would have multiple Tee's near the source and then send
individual runs to the fixtures. I guess "multiple Tee's" is the same as a
manifold. Are we talking about the same thing?


Manifolds minimize the wait time for hot water and reduce the scalding problem
when someone flushes a toilet while the shower is on. I've not seen anyone stack
tees back at teh source, but it sounds like it would work the same.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars
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Default PEX piping question

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...


Depends on the house / bathroom (& kitchen / laundry) layout.

Bob, thank you so much for your reply.

My bathroom is 20 feet away from the water heater and cold water source.
Ranch style, single story, furthest bathroom from source. Please explain
the use of manifolds. Is this simply PEX's way of not using a bunch of
Tee's. In copper I would have multiple Tee's near the source and then send
individual runs to the fixtures. I guess "multiple Tee's" is the same as a
manifold. Are we talking about the same thing?

Additionally, you mentioned running PEX up through the floor to the fixture.
I imagine they make a fitting to go from PEX to the threaded fittings on the
shut-off valves.


Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with PEX
from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the toilet and
sinks.

FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/

Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots too!

a
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Default PEX piping question

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...


Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with PEX
from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the toilet and
sinks.

FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/

Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots too!

a


You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?

--
Oren

Why is there only one Monopolies Commission ?
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Default PEX piping question

Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with PEX
from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the toilet and
sinks.

FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/

Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots too!

a


You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?


Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the vice-grips,
you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped connections up over
the foundation sill between joists which I never would have been able to
get at with a traditional tool.

This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg

- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)

a
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Default PEX piping question

a wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with
PEX from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the
toilet and sinks.

FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/

Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots
too!

a


You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?


Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the
vice-grips, you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped
connections up over the foundation sill between joists which I never
would have been able to get at with a traditional tool.

This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg

- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)

a


PS - The ratchet crimpers are over $200 at the DIY stores where I live.
$35? No contest.


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Default PEX piping question

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:33:38 GMT, a wrote:

a wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with
PEX from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the
toilet and sinks.

FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/

Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots
too!

a

You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?


Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the
vice-grips, you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped
connections up over the foundation sill between joists which I never
would have been able to get at with a traditional tool.

This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg


Makes sense to me.


- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)

a


PS - The ratchet crimpers are over $200 at the DIY stores where I live.
$35? No contest.


I bought crimpers (Crimp master) for our master bath remodel. It was
cheaper than rental for the days needed...given the long drive to rent
the tool.

I ended up with another new tool
--
Oren

Why is there only one Monopolies Commission ?
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Default PEX piping question

On Oct 20, 2:51 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:33:38 GMT, a wrote:
a wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:


Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
glegroups.com...


Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with
PEX from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the
toilet and sinks.


FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/


Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots
too!


a


You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?


Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the
vice-grips, you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped
connections up over the foundation sill between joists which I never
would have been able to get at with a traditional tool.


This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg


Makes sense to me.



- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)


a


PS - The ratchet crimpers are over $200 at the DIY stores where I live.
$35? No contest.


I bought crimpers (Crimp master) for our master bath remodel. It was
cheaper than rental for the days needed...given the long drive to rent
the tool.

I ended up with another new tool
--
Oren

Why is there only one Monopolies Commission ?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Further to freezing if frozen more than twice in one spot it should be
replaced as it pressure rating is halve of stated rating this is told
to me by the rep for Bowflex remember that copper fittings will still
crack if frozen

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Default PEX piping question

Additionally, you mentioned running PEX up through the floor to the
fixture. I imagine they make a fitting to go from PEX to the threaded
fittings on the shut-off valves.


Yes, there is a stainless steel sleeve that you insert into the end of the
PEX, then you attach a regular compression fitting(shut off valve) and
tighten it down. Thats what you do if you dont want to put a copper stub on
the end.


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Default PEX piping question

On Oct 20, 12:31 pm, a wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:


Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
egroups.com...


Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with PEX
from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the toilet and
sinks.


FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/


Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots too!


a


You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?


Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the vice-grips,
you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped connections up over
the foundation sill between joists which I never would have been able to
get at with a traditional tool.

This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg

- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)

a


The OP is going to use the expander system

cheers
Bob

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Default PEX piping question


Yes, there is a stainless steel sleeve that you insert into the end of the
PEX, then you attach a regular compression fitting(shut off valve) and
tighten it down. Thats what you do if you dont want to put a copper stub
on the end.


Oh, and using this method, NO crimper is required




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Default PEX piping question

BobK207 wrote:
On Oct 20, 12:31 pm, a wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:12:46 GMT, a wrote:
Ivan Vegvary wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes they do. I've replaced the supply side of my copper system with PEX
from the service entrance right to the shut off valves for the toilet and
sinks.
FWIW: I used this:
http://www.pexcrimper.com/
Soooo much cheaper than a ratchet crimper and gets into tighter spots too!
a
You also need vise grips with that tool. Seems tough to get both in a
tight space?

Have you seen the size of the ratchet crimpers? Plus, with the vice-grips,
you can squeeze the tool at almost angle - I crimped connections up over
the foundation sill between joists which I never would have been able to
get at with a traditional tool.

This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness:http://www.pexcrimper.com/images/testimonials.jpg

- And no, I don't work for them! ;0)

a


The OP is going to use the expander system

cheers
Bob


Good for them.

a
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Default PEX piping question

Thanks everybody for your replies to my PEX questions. I now understand
that the function of the manifold is to allow home runs and also a
convenient location for all shutoff valves. Clever!

Thanks again,

Ivan Vegvary


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Default PEX piping question

On Oct 20, 11:10 am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

oups.com...

Depends on the house / bathroom (& kitchen / laundry) layout.

Bob, thank you so much for your reply.

My bathroom is 20 feet away from the water heater and cold water source.
Ranch style, single story, furthest bathroom from source. Please explain
the use of manifolds. Is this simply PEX's way of not using a bunch of
Tee's. In copper I would have multiple Tee's near the source and then send
individual runs to the fixtures. I guess "multiple Tee's" is the same as a
manifold. Are we talking about the same thing?


Ivan-

I composed a reply to your questions about manifolds but it looks like
it didn't post.

It included links to pexsupply.com
for manifolds, PEX bullets, & drop ear elbows

I can re-write it if you want the information.

cheers
Bob


Additionally, you mentioned running PEX up through the floor to the fixture.
I imagine they make a fitting to go from PEX to the threaded fittings on the
shut-off valves.

Thank you again for your support and answers.

Ivan Vegvary



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