Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, I'm-just-fine wrote:
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

Mortar is used to supply strength along with lath but saying that this
is the worst choice for countertop in my opion as it is hard to keep
the stains out of the grout and it is extremly un hygenic as tile is
porious and prone to chipping on the corners . Epoxy is not safe for
food use suggest you think this over

"jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, I'm-just-fine wrote:
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

Mortar is used to supply strength along with lath but saying that this
is the worst choice for countertop in my opion as it is hard to keep
the stains out of the grout and it is extremly un hygenic as tile is
porious and prone to chipping on the corners . Epoxy is not safe for
food use suggest you think this over


I don't understand why more DIYer don't go for the granite slaps which I
think is cleaner than tile and install a lot faster. No problem cutting it,
the challenge would be the sink undermount cutout. I could get a 8' sheet
with bullnose anywhere between $60-$400 and the 8' x 4" high backsplash is
from $20 and up.

Hi again,
folks, the question was not on counter top materials. I'm
well aware of all the pros and cons involving tile, granite, corian,
laminate, wood, stainless steel, and anything else you care to
proffer. If some of you prep food directly on tiles than you get what
you deserve if you pick up bacteria from the grout. Personally I use
cutting boards regardless of the counter top surface I'm using. It's
more hygienic, and much less likely to cause staining or damage to
most of the various materials one can use for counter tops. Stainless
steel would probably be the perfect choice purely from the point of
view of functionality, which is why most professional kitchens are
decked out in the material. Aesthetically though it sucks, which is
why few home owners have it in their own kitchens.

Tile is the way we're going, and if anyone would like to help me out
by offering some advice on the appropriate technique for base
materials I'd certainly appreciate it. As I said, I've come across
conflicting advice on the matter. Some say I can lay the tile directly
onto marine ply with epoxy, others say I have to use a layer of
baseboard (and perhaps mesh) over the ply while using an appropriate
cement as the adhesive. I'd be grateful for any thoughts on either
alternative.

Cheers..........Tim

PS to Jim - I'm a little mystified by your point on epoxy being
hazardous where food is concerned. As the tiles and grout would
eventually conceal all traces of the adhesive, how do you imagine that
food would come in contact with it once the job is completed?

On Oct 16, 10:33 pm, h wrote:
"** Frank **" wrote in messagenews:gOmdnWyO5r6Q8IjanZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@comca st.com...



"jim" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, I'm-just-fine wrote:
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

Mortar is used to supply strength along with lath but saying that this
is the worst choice for countertop in my opion as it is hard to keep
the stains out of the grout and it is extremly un hygenic as tile is
porious and prone to chipping on the corners . Epoxy is not safe for
food use suggest you think this over

I don't understand why more DIYer don't go for the granite slaps which I
think is cleaner than tile and install a lot faster. No problem cutting
it, the challenge would be the sink undermount cutout. I could get a 8'
sheet with bullnose anywhere between $60-$400 and the 8' x 4" high
backsplash is from $20 and up.

ANYthing is superior to tile for countertops. Just the thought of eating
food which was prepped on a tiled and grouted surface makes me gag. There's
Corian, granite, formica, stainless, the list goes on and on. You definitely
want to re-think tiling your countertops.

I have to disagree with you.

To the OP -

You can't make the surface "too stiff". Imagine someone sitting on
the countertop sometime in the future. I like using 3/4" plywood, and
bonding cement tile backer to it using a layer of thinset, and nailing
the tile backer down with roofing nails. You could use screws, but
once the thinset sets up, it really doesn't matter.

On the first counter I tiled, I used epoxy grout, because is was
supposed to be very durable and stain resistant, but I was really
unhappy with it over the years and just redid it, 7 years after the
original install.

For the last several years, I have been installing 12" x 12" granite
tiles on counters, with stone or granite trim for the edges. Looks
great - here is a Craigslist post of a rental property that I uses it
in:

http://www.werentapts.com/page8.html

I can't see what the big deal would be prepping food on such a
surface. The grout lines are very narrow and were properly sealed.

BTW, a wet saw sure makes the job go easier...

Best of luck with your project. Feel free to email me off list if you
have questions.

JK

Hi again,
Thanks for the feedback Jim.

I'm not actually after a critique on which medium to use, as tile is
the way we're going. I'm well aware of the pros and cons of using it,
down to the issues with grout and porosity, each of which will be
taken care of.

My question is more to do with the technique of putting the material
in place - plain marine ply or marine ply in combination with backing
board.

Also, your point about epoxy left me a little mystified, as the epoxy
won't be in evidence once the tile and grout have been applied, so how
can it possible pose a health risk to food once the job has been
completed?

Thanks.........Tim

On Oct 16, 8:00 pm, I'm-just-fine wrote:
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

Tile is about the worst countertop you can get, if money is an issue
Formica is better. If money is no issue then granite is best by far,
Uba Tuba (which is your basic entry level granite) can be had here for
around $50 per foot installed.

** Frank ** wrote:
I don't understand why more DIYer don't go for the granite slaps
which I think is cleaner than tile and install a lot faster. No
problem cutting it, the challenge would be the sink undermount
cutout. I could get a 8' sheet with bullnose anywhere between
$60-$400 and the 8' x 4" high backsplash is from $20 and up.

Where can I get those $60 eight footers? I'm assuming they are two
feet wide, not two inches...

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I'm-just-fine wrote:
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the
point where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I
thought the cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our
kitchen re- modelling, but now that I've come to the point where
I'm ready to put in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not
be quite as easy as I first thought.

Yes it is.
______________

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it.

Marine ply is overkill.
_______________

if I can get away with simply putting the tile straight on top of
marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it would make my task somewhat
easier.

I'm assuming you have horizontal nailers under the ply to which it
will be attached. If so, 3/4 ply is plenty thick enough and...

a. You can put your tile directly on the ply. I'd use tile mastic
rather than thinset to lay the tiles.

- OR -

b. Put 1/4" or 1/2" cement board on top of the ply. Use thinset under
and nail/screw to the ply. Use thinset to lay the tiles.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Oct 17, 7:28 am, h wrote:
"I'm-just-fine" wrote in message

oups.com...

Hi again,
folks, the question was not on counter top materials. I'm
well aware of all the pros and cons involving tile, granite, corian,
laminate, wood, stainless steel, and anything else you care to
proffer. If some of you prep food directly on tiles than you get what
you deserve if you pick up bacteria from the grout. Personally I use
cutting boards regardless of the counter top surface I'm using. It's
more hygienic, and much less likely to cause staining or damage to
most of the various materials one can use for counter tops.

So you're seriously saying that you put ALL food on a cutting board? You use
a cutting board when you're packaging up chicken for the freezer. Yes, the
actual food stays off the counter since it goes directly from the store
package to the freezer bag, but there's definitely going to be dripping onto
the counter, and you just CANNOT get tile and grout clean. When you're
making a salad you never put a whole tomato on the counter? When making a
pie crust, you roll the dough onto a 20x40 cutting board? Well, I guess
you'd have to on tile, since it's not exactly a smooth, level surface free
of joints. It's absolutely disgusting and I would never eat food prepped in
a tiled kitchen.

To I,am just fine it is called leeching and do what ever you wish just
pointing out thats all also make sure you have no open spots under any
of the tiles as they could snap if you were to push down on the spot
later, The sink should not be undermounted unless you have a corian
mount area but I know you don't want that as it would cost to much but
so doe's redoing countertop. When the area around the sink leaks and
bulges from the wood swelling, but just letting you know as Ive only
put in more if them then you can imagine. And most will leak and look
like hell shortly after cause the water gets underneath them as the
caulk seperates from the sink due to weight and temp but go ahead have
fun. Use hardy board and lath works fine if still want to know marine
is overkill

I'm-just-fine, I rush to your aesthetic defense! Tile countertops
remind me of visits to kitchens in northern California, where tile had
been used a lot for the last century or so. It looks washable (like a
bathroom wall does), informal, and cheerful.

Clean-up is accomplished by putting a bit of bleach in the cleaning
water; that takes care of the germs.

In my own New England kitchen I added a countertop between stove and
main countertops (which are of maple - I'm sure I can hear the uproar
of the sanitarians already) by setting extra ceramic floor tiles onto
3/4" plywood, using clear silicone caulk/glue, and leaving no grouting
space between them. I used painted lath for the front trim, nailing
it tø the plywood edge. This area doesn't have to handle bare food
items, only hot pans and tea mugs, so the sterilizing of the surface
isn't an issue. It always makes me remember fondly my trips to the
Bay Area and the Napa valley. Go with tile.

C.C.

According to I'm-just-fine :

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that.

I've never quite understood the insistance of not going direct to plywood
on counterops. People install ceramic tile on floors with less support than
1" marine ply, with vastly higher loading, and _usually_ get away with it.
[Mind you, the joists usually aren't 20-24" OC]

But just about everybody recommends not going directly to plywood, even directly
on top of 2x4 stub frame walls holding up drop-in tubs. Go figure.

This may be very CYA recommendations, perhaps not taking into account
1" ply versus 3/4, 5/8 or gasp 1/2" OSB, that are overkill in many
situations.

Or it may have something to do with moisture exposure with poor and/or
degrading grout. That'd make more sense. If you get the plywood
wet, the whole thing might start delaminating and tiles pop off.

Certainly, the full thinset/mesh route will be "better", but it's likely
overkill. You could compromise by adding battens underneath to
stiffen the plywood and making _sure_ that you do a good grouting job,
seal it well, and reseal periodically.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Hi again,
Thanks for the responses, particularly from dadiOH, Big
Jake, Jim, and C.C. I pretty well have in mind what I have to do now
to accomplish the task.

To those who say that marine ply is overkill, I'd point out that the
reason I'm using it is for the same point a couple of you raised about
water leakage and swelling. The marine ply will negate that. My one
concern is to ensure I get ply that isn't too wet, as I don't want it
drying out and warping/shrinking after the job is done.

As for the anonymous poster (aren't they always?) with a fixation on
hygiene, is there anything intelligent or constructive to your posts
that had any relevancy to the question that was posed, or do you
simply have a problem reading English? Most counter top materials can
pose health risks unless meticulously maintained and cleaned. Porous
stone counters that don't have the seal maintained can harbor
bacteria, as can wood counter tops. Prepping food, such as cutting up
meats or vegetables, on counters such as corian or laminate can damage
the surface and create scratches that can also harbor bacteria. Many
stone counter tops can also be stained relatively easily unless care
is taken to prevent the problem. And as for the direct point about
tile and grout, as someone else has already noted if both are well
sealed and maintained the problems inherent with the medium should be
no more or less of a problem that certain types of stone used for
counter tops.

Your pedantic point regarding chicken is also presumptive BS, as we're
vegetarian, and while you may be happy dumping baking items all over
your counter top to make cakes we prefer using wax paper, regardless
of the surface we're using. And if you're trying to suggest that you
place your salad items directly on the counter top before cutting them
up I'd suggest it's you who has the problem with hygiene. Like most
people, I wash all of my fruit and vegetables under a tap before
placing them on a cutting board (or directly in my mouth) to clean off
any chemical residues or dirt that might still be in place as a result
of the growing process.

In short, if you can't contribute something meaningful and pertinent
why bother going to so much trouble to demonstrate your blow hard
tendencies and irrelevant prattle? Do you really like seeing your
views on display that much? You've contributed nothing of substance,
just a leery if somewhat skewered fixation with hygiene that would
have made Howard Hughes proud.

Rest assured that your points about gagging over food prepared on
tiled counter tops has been noted, as has your point about the fact
you'd never eat such food - is that before or after you've gagged, by
the way? I can't tell you with what regret we'd have to accept the
fact you'd never call round to our meager little home for a meal with
our family as a result. After what I've read here I can see that we'd
undoubtedly be missing out on one of the greatest experiences of our
lives.

Cheers..........Tim

SteveB wrote:
Don't mess with tile. Use granite.

Costs more, but lots better. Tile is dated, and there's always problems
with grout and broken tiles.

While popular at the moment, I'd recommend one of the manmades over the
natural stones myself.

--

A quick hello again,
Sorry to Chris Lewis and SteveB, your
posts came in while I was writing my previous post.

Yeah Chris, I agree with your view, I will be going with the idea of
putting the tile directly onto marine ply.

And to Steve, tile can look dated if applied in that awful 70's
fashion. If you look around you can see some tile layouts that look
very tasteful and warm. We're going with a slate colored tile that's
6" square, with wood trim on the edges that will match the color of
the cabinets. I'm also setting up the ply base in such a way that I'll
be able to remove the counter tops in 5 - 10 years time with relative
ease if we decide that we want to change the look to something else.

Cheers.......Tim

I tiled a kitchen counter tops several years ago. The base was Formica or
equivalent.

What I used was a mastic. My advice is to read all the comments on this
thread and then go to a tile shop that caters to the trade. Tell the guy
there what you want to do and buy the stuff he recommends. Buy the tile from
him too. They will have all the odd shapes that you might need. I also did
the backsplash and had an inside corner. My guy got me the piece of tile
that sat on the inside corner of the top and fit perfectly into the inside
corner of the backsplash.

Forget about the big box stores and the flooring kinds of places. They will
not have all the stuff you need that you don't even know you need.


Charlie



"I'm-just-fine" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Thanks.......Tim

on 10/17/2007 11:06 AM I'm-just-fine said the following:
A quick hello again,
Sorry to Chris Lewis and SteveB, your
posts came in while I was writing my previous post.

Yeah Chris, I agree with your view, I will be going with the idea of
putting the tile directly onto marine ply.

And to Steve, tile can look dated if applied in that awful 70's
fashion. If you look around you can see some tile layouts that look
very tasteful and warm. We're going with a slate colored tile that's
6" square, with wood trim on the edges that will match the color of
the cabinets.

If you haven't bought the tile yet, when you do, ask the person what is
the best way to install the tile, that is, if you are buying it from a
tile store. If you are buying it from the big box store, that
information may not be available.

I'm also setting up the ply base in such a way that I'll
be able to remove the counter tops in 5 - 10 years time with relative
ease if we decide that we want to change the look to something else.
Cheers.......Tim
Good point. I recently re-tiled my countertop from the 4" ceramic tile
to 12" granite tile, and the removal of the old was made easy by the
prying up of the plywood from the underlayment.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Don't mess with tile. Use granite.

Costs more, but lots better. Tile is dated, and there's always problems
with grout and broken tiles.

Steve

In article .com, I'm-just-fine wrote:
And to Steve, tile can look dated if applied in that awful 70's
fashion. If you look around you can see some tile layouts that look
very tasteful and warm. We're going with a slate colored tile that's
6" square, with wood trim on the edges that will match the color of
the cabinets. I'm also setting up the ply base in such a way that I'll
be able to remove the counter tops in 5 - 10 years time with relative
ease if we decide that we want to change the look to something else.

One of the considerations relates to the thermal expansion and
contraction of the tiles, relative to the ply or whatever
substrate you've installed them over. So part of the problem
depends upon the thermal characteristics of your specific
tile material (I'm still not sure what type of tile this is).

Therefore, if at all possible, contact the tile manufacturer
and ask for their recommendations. They will likely be able
to offer some good inputs based on the porosity, thermal
and other characteristics of their specific tiles.

Frankly, it's likely to be more reliable than the pontifications
of various newsgroup participants ;-)

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about moisture rotting
the ply. That shouldn't be an issue provided everything is
installed to a reasonable standard and you don't just ignore
some obvious plumbing problem. But, sure, if you're not too
worried about cost, go for the marine grade although it's
probably overkill.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

h wrote:

there's definitely going to be dripping onto the counter, and you
just CANNOT get tile and grout clean.

Tile is about the easiest thing *to* clean...smooth, totally
non-absorbent, won't stain. Yes, grout can absorb if it isn't
properly sealed. If sealed, it is simple to clean - just wipe off.

Tile has another advantage that might be of interest to you...it is
fireproof. That means you could blast the freakin' counter with a
blow torch. Let's see the nasty little microbes survive *that*.
________________

It's absolutely disgusting and I would
never eat food prepped in a tiled kitchen.

Don't go abroad then, lots of restaurant kitchens have tile counters.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

I'm-just-fine wrote:
Hi again,
Thanks for the responses, particularly from dadiOH, Big
Jake, Jim, and C.C. I pretty well have in mind what I have to do now
to accomplish the task.

To those who say that marine ply is overkill, I'd point out that the
reason I'm using it is for the same point a couple of you raised
about water leakage and swelling. The marine ply will negate that.

So will any exterior ply. Main advantage (slight) of marine is that
there are no voids in the internal plies.
_____________

My one concern is to ensure I get ply that isn't too wet, as I
don't want it drying out and warping/shrinking after the job is
done.

Unless it has been stored out in the rain, it won't be wet. By the
time the veneer is cut and dried and then made into ply the whole
thing is bone dry. Even if it weren't ply expands/contracts very
little which is one reason it is used so much.

As far as ply getting wet at the sink area and rotting, I have had
kitchens with tile on ply counters for close to 30 years. Current one
for 12. I have never ever had a problem with water infiltration to
the ply. Sinks have always been drop in bedded in plumber's putty.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

In article TErRi.1335$H92.672@trnddc07, "dadiOH" wrote:

Tile is about the easiest thing *to* clean...smooth, totally
non-absorbent, won't stain. Yes, grout can absorb if it isn't
properly sealed. If sealed, it is simple to clean - just wipe off.

Speaking as someone who purchased a home with a tile countertop,
I'd have to disagree. Cleaning that thing was a royal pain. So
much so that the tile is gone; replaced with granite slab.

Having said that... the grout lines were relatively broad at
about one eigth of an inch.

So, for anyone considering tile, I would certainly recommend
using the minimum recommended thickness (for that tile) of
grout line. Also, use sandless (smooth) grout and, of course,
seal it properly.

Tile has another advantage that might be of interest to you...it is
fireproof. That means you could blast the freakin' counter with a
blow torch. Let's see the nasty little microbes survive *that*.

Yes, tile has some strong points. Grout lines are not one of
them ;-)

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"dadiOH" wrote in message
news:ZWlRi.12240$fm1.3604@trnddc01...
** Frank ** wrote:
I don't understand why more DIYer don't go for the granite slaps
which I think is cleaner than tile and install a lot faster. No
problem cutting it, the challenge would be the sink undermount
cutout. I could get a 8' sheet with bullnose anywhere between
$60-$400 and the 8' x 4" high backsplash is from $20 and up.

Where can I get those $60 eight footers? I'm assuming they are two
feet wide, not two inches...


Yes 2' wide, 3/4" thick with 1.5" thick bullnose. I see them in the Bay
Area, various granite shops.

HD Repair & Remodel has it too, a little more money though.
http://www.hdsupplyrepairandremodel.com/

My question is more to do with the technique of putting the material
in place - plain marine ply or marine ply in combination with backing
board.

I'd ripped my original counter top off a couple of years ago on a 1981
house. Particleboard, thin wax paper, chicken wire with a bed of mortar then
the tile on top. The 24 year old particleboard was in perfect condition
without any signs of water damage anywhere including the sink area. They did
it cheaply but they knew what they doing. BTY the tile was in pretty good
condition too, though it needed regrouting.

On Oct 17, 1:41 pm, "dadiOH" wrote:
I'm-just-fine wrote:
Hi again,
Thanks for the responses, particularly from dadiOH, Big
Jake, Jim, and C.C. I pretty well have in mind what I have to do now
to accomplish the task.

To those who say that marine ply is overkill, I'd point out that the
reason I'm using it is for the same point a couple of you raised
about water leakage and swelling. The marine ply will negate that.

So will any exterior ply. Main advantage (slight) of marine is that
there are no voids in the internal plies.
_____________

My one concern is to ensure I get ply that isn't too wet, as I
don't want it drying out and warping/shrinking after the job is
done.

Unless it has been stored out in the rain, it won't be wet. By the
time the veneer is cut and dried and then made into ply the whole
thing is bone dry. Even if it weren't ply expands/contracts very
little which is one reason it is used so much.

As far as ply getting wet at the sink area and rotting, I have had
kitchens with tile on ply counters for close to 30 years. Current one
for 12. I have never ever had a problem with water infiltration to
the ply. Sinks have always been drop in bedded in plumber's putty.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

****************
When we bought this house, it had kitchen cabinets made out of
particle board and covered with a wood grain looking Formica. I hired
someone to come in and put in a tile counter top and back splash. It
looked great. Easy to clean, etc. But the grout somehow came loose
around the sink area and I didn't see it. Before long the water
seeped into the particle board and it was a real mess. I was tired of
the way the cabinets looked by that time so I just replaced the
cabinets and counter top. I was lucky. The man who did the work was
able to save the tile back splash. If you use tile for counter top,
be real careful it doesn't leak anywhere.

"I'm-just-fine" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Most recommendations I've seen these days suggest using a layer of backerboard
under the tile. Personally, for kitchen counters, I'd use thinset and Roofing
nails to attach backerboard to the ply. I'd then coat the backerboard with
redguard to waterproof it. Then thinset the tile to that. I did use epoxy grout
to attach tiles to the bottom of a hottub once, which seemed to work fine, but
it would be huge overkill for a kitchen counter. Thinset should last forever.

The backerboard is a cheap, easy way to form a really good base for the tire.
The expansion of backerboard will be much closer to that of tile, eliminating
potential problems.

Redguard on plywood could be a possible compromise if you really don't want to
add the backerboard. It would help prevent expansion from moisture which does
goes through tile grout.

Bob

h wrote in message ...

"I'm-just-fine" wrote in message

Your pedantic point regarding chicken is also presumptive BS, as we're
vegetarian

Of course you are. Just please make sure to give your family lots of lysine
supplements, since lysine is something human beings need, yet can only get
from animals. Probably why vegetarians are generally so unhealthy and sick all
the time.

Keep well, and enjoy your germ-collecting countertops.

If you are what meat eating produces, I may have to give it up.

Bob

"Dottie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 17, 1:41 pm, "dadiOH" wrote:
I'm-just-fine wrote:
Hi again,
Thanks for the responses, particularly from dadiOH, Big
Jake, Jim, and C.C. I pretty well have in mind what I have to do now
to accomplish the task.

To those who say that marine ply is overkill, I'd point out that the
reason I'm using it is for the same point a couple of you raised
about water leakage and swelling. The marine ply will negate that.

So will any exterior ply. Main advantage (slight) of marine is that
there are no voids in the internal plies.
_____________

My one concern is to ensure I get ply that isn't too wet, as I
don't want it drying out and warping/shrinking after the job is
done.

Unless it has been stored out in the rain, it won't be wet. By the
time the veneer is cut and dried and then made into ply the whole
thing is bone dry. Even if it weren't ply expands/contracts very
little which is one reason it is used so much.

As far as ply getting wet at the sink area and rotting, I have had
kitchens with tile on ply counters for close to 30 years. Current one
for 12. I have never ever had a problem with water infiltration to
the ply. Sinks have always been drop in bedded in plumber's putty.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

****************
When we bought this house, it had kitchen cabinets made out of
particle board and covered with a wood grain looking Formica. I hired
someone to come in and put in a tile counter top and back splash. It
looked great. Easy to clean, etc. But the grout somehow came loose
around the sink area and I didn't see it. Before long the water
seeped into the particle board and it was a real mess. I was tired of
the way the cabinets looked by that time so I just replaced the
cabinets and counter top. I was lucky. The man who did the work was
able to save the tile back splash. If you use tile for counter top,
be real careful it doesn't leak anywhere.


And don't use particle board.

Bob

"Bob F" wrote in message
news

"I'm-just-fine" wrote in message
oups.com...
Any of you have any experience with tiling kitchen counter tops?

I recently installed our new kitchen cabinets and am now at the point
where I'm ready to put in the counter tops. Oddly enough I thought the
cabinet installation would be the hardest part of our kitchen re-
modelling, but now that I've come to the point where I'm ready to put
in the tiled counters, I've discovered it may not be quite as easy as
I first thought.

My initial thoughts were that I'd simply use 1" marine ply for the
base and then put the tiles in place on top of it. But when I ventured
onto the net to do some research on the subject I discovered that a
number of sites recommend the use of baseboard over the ply, and even
the use of mesh above that. In some respects I don't mind the extra
trouble, even of having to use the appropriate cement, as I've tiled
all the living areas in our home and did a pretty decent job of it,
even if I do say so myself. But if I can get away with simply putting
the tile straight on top of marine ply I'd prefer just that, as it
would make my task somewhat easier.

If the latter option is okay can someone suggest a good epoxy glue to
use for the task?

Most recommendations I've seen these days suggest using a layer of backerboard
under the tile. Personally, for kitchen counters, I'd use thinset and Roofing
nails to attach backerboard to the ply. I'd then coat the backerboard with
redguard to waterproof it. Then thinset the tile to that. I did use epoxy
grout to attach tiles to the bottom of a hottub once, which seemed to work
fine, but it would be huge overkill for a kitchen counter. Thinset should last
forever.

The backerboard is a cheap, easy way to form a really good base for the tire.
The expansion of backerboard will be much closer to that of tile, eliminating
potential problems.

Redguard on plywood could be a possible compromise if you really don't want to
add the backerboard. It would help prevent expansion from moisture which does
goes through tile grout.


Oops - that's Redgard, not redguard.

Bob

My question is more to do with the technique of putting the material
in place - plain marine ply or marine ply in combination with backing
board.

Well it depends whether your substrate ever gets wet or not. If not..then
Marine ply will be fine. However, wet marine ply will eventually promote
mold..so if theres a chance it will get wet (there very well could
be..depends on how much water/spillage the user puts on the countertop and
how well ther groutlines are sealed) I d suggest you go with cement board
and if you re doing that, then you dont NEED "marine" ply but if it makes
you feel better, go for it.

Also, your point about epoxy left me a little mystified,

Forget the epoxy, go with the material intended for the job..thinset