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#1
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
Hey guys,
I know nothing about how the furnace or heating work in general, but I will try to explain my problem and I hope someone will be able to help me out. So here we go... I turned on the heating this morning, set it to like 25 degrees celsia, while outside was like 5 above zero and our gas Furnace (maker: Clare) seemed to go on, but after a little while I realized it is blowing only a cold air. So I went to basement and checked the furnace pilot. It was on and burning. I thought maybe furnace needs to be reset, so I turned off furnace power switch, waited couple minutes, then turned it back on, but it's a same problem. Pilot is on, but that coil in the furnace where gas goes to burn never fires up. Anyhow, so I checked our air filters and there was a lot of dust on it... and I mean a lot... so I cleaned it properly, put it back, but when I turned air filter box on, that little led light doesn't light up and I can't recall if it did before or not. But before I could always hear like little sparks from this air filter and now it seems completely dead. I wonder if the air filter and the fact that it might be damaged could somehow affect the furnace itself. Please tell me what else I can try. I am no longer sure what is going on. Not sure if I should call a furnace repair man, or electrician or if there is anything else I can try. Joe |
#2
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Oct 13, 1:10 pm, wrote:
Hey guys, I know nothing about how the furnace or heating work in general, but I will try to explain my problem and I hope someone will be able to help me out. So here we go... I turned on the heating this morning, set it to like 25 degrees celsia, while outside was like 5 above zero and our gas Furnace (maker: Clare) seemed to go on, but after a little while I realized it is blowing only a cold air. So I went to basement and checked the furnace pilot. It was on and burning. I thought maybe furnace needs to be reset, so I turned off furnace power switch, waited couple minutes, then turned it back on, but it's a same problem. Pilot is on, but that coil in the furnace where gas goes to burn never fires up. Anyhow, so I checked our air filters and there was a lot of dust on it... and I mean a lot... so I cleaned it properly, put it back, but when I turned air filter box on, that little led light doesn't light up and I can't recall if it did before or not. But before I could always hear like little sparks from this air filter and now it seems completely dead. I wonder if the air filter and the fact that it might be damaged could somehow affect the furnace itself. Please tell me what else I can try. I am no longer sure what is going on. Not sure if I should call a furnace repair man, or electrician or if there is anything else I can try. Joe Maybe you just turned the fan on. Usually the blower on a furnace will not start until the burners have been ignited, unless of course you just turned on the fan on the T-stat. An air filter would not cause the burners not to ignite. If all else looks ok, then call a tech. |
#3
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO. Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but burners are not ignited. What could be the reason for burners not igniting? |
#4
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
wrote in message ps.com... Termostat fan was set to ON. I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO. Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but burners are not ignited. What could be the reason for burners not igniting? Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers. |
#5
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
Thanks Edwin,
If I understand this right, the thermocouple is a sensor which senses if the pilot flame is hot enough to sustain burning the gasfuel from the burner, right? So if it's broken, the thermocouple keeps the main gas valve located in the pilot assembly closed and it shuts off the gas valve to the burners? Hm, that makes sense and that is possibly a reason why my pilot is on, but burner is not. Is it hard to replace? Where would it be located on this 20 year or gas furnace, brand: CLARE? Any idea? Should I do it myself or is there a way to just clean the thermocouple from dust or something like that to make it work? |
#6
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
No, dirt is generally not an issue. At 20 years, a defective
therocouple is quite reasonable. They are easy to install (screw-in deal), but considering your lack of familiarity with gas appliances, I'd call the gas company, or whoever services your burner. The other issue is making sure that you have the right size themocouple. Not a big deal, and 1/2 time, at most. It is also possible that you have a defective gas valve, or power is not getting to the electrical controls on the valve. Check fuses first, before you call, and that the breaker is Ok for that circuit. |
#7
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
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#8
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
professorpaul wrote:
No, dirt is generally not an issue. At 20 years, a defective therocouple is quite reasonable. They are easy to install (screw-in deal), but considering your lack of familiarity with gas appliances, I'd call the gas company, or whoever services your burner. The other issue is making sure that you have the right size themocouple. Not a big deal, and 1/2 time, at most. It is also possible that you have a defective gas valve, or power is not getting to the electrical controls on the valve. Check fuses first, before you call, and that the breaker is Ok for that circuit. Hi, Commonly thermocouple's job is to supply small amount of gas to keep the pilot stay on. If it's bad pilot will go out. |
#9
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
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#10
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... wrote in message ps.com... Termostat fan was set to ON. I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO. Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but burners are not ignited. What could be the reason for burners not igniting? Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers. Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad? |
#11
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers. Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad? It is a possibility Although the thermocouple is supposed to keep the pilot valve open, I've had it where the pilot would still light and the burner would not get the signal to open. Fixed our heater at work. There are other possibilities. Gas valve, limit switch. May also be a solenoid sticking after sitting all summer. What do you suggest? |
#12
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message t... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers. Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad? It is a possibility Although the thermocouple is supposed to keep the pilot valve open, I've had it where the pilot would still light and the burner would not get the signal to open. Fixed our heater at work. There are other possibilities. Gas valve, limit switch. May also be a solenoid sticking after sitting all summer. What do you suggest? I suggest that he call in someone that's qualified to work on gas furnaces, as it's painfully obvious that he's not. |
#13
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:35:51 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Termostat fan was set to ON. I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO. Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but burners are not ignited. What could be the reason for burners not igniting? Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers. If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause heating isn't it. |
#14
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
old furnace dude wrote in message ... If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause heating isn't it. Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was low. I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a mean old *******? |
#15
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message news old furnace dude wrote in message ... If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause heating isn't it. Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was low. I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a mean old *******? Try looking up the difference between a thermocouple and a thermopile. Then, the next time you try to help an OP, make sure you're familiar with their equipment. |
#16
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
I had thought ( at least with most furnaces) that the blower will come
on only after the burners ignite, so why is this blower coming on if the burners are not on? |
#17
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 06:06:31 -0700, Mikepier
wrote: I had thought ( at least with most furnaces) that the blower will come on only after the burners ignite, so why is this blower coming on if the burners are not on? Because the fan relay is bad or a limit switch is open. DUH! |
#18
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:18:57 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote: old furnace dude wrote in message .. . If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause heating isn't it. Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was low. I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a mean old *******? Go crawl in a hole eddy, you're a ****ing dumbass. How's that for name calling asshole? |
#19
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
old furnace dude wrote in message How's that for name calling asshole? About what I'd expect. Your mamma is proud of you. |
#20
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Oct 15, 10:03 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
old furnace dude wrote in message How's that for name calling asshole? About what I'd expect. Your mamma is proud of you. I am having the exact problem with my Clare furnace. The first blower starts...then the pilot light ignites....then the main burner kicks on for only a second...then the main blower starts and it acts as if nothing is wrong. Even the small computer lights up like there is nothing wrong. Of course it only blows cold air and never shuts off because the t-stat never climbs. Any help? Thanks, |
#21
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
Ok guys, so here is an update. And a quite a weird one.
I listened to your suggestions and checked the furnace and tried to figure this one out. I tried to see if it's dirty inside, and it is, dirty. Not entirely hideous, but 'hey' it's 20 years old and I doubt it was ever cleaned. I can't post the picture here, so just imagine, that the level of dirtiness inclines more to the negative side, if you know what I mean So, it's not very clean, dust everywhere inside, but I doubt that it is less dirty than it was this March (when it was still running). In my opinion this has nothing to do with how dirty it is. Then I checked the electric box and as Edwin Pawlowski said in this thread, voltage is low. It's not enough, only 14volts... why? I've no clue, because I don't have much knowledge of the topic. In the mean time, pilot is still working, everything else seems ok, except the burned never goes on. And that is probably caused by not enough voltage, thus gas valve is not opening. Anyhow, so because I know sh*t about what to do, I called an electrician/furnace repair man. This guy walks into our basement, kneels next to the furnace, doesn't do anything just looks at the burning pilot, shakes his head and says, that we should immediately turn it off, if we don't want to die. I am looking at him, trying to figure out, how the hell he could find the problem so quickly without checking anything. So I asked him if he could check the electric box and the voltage. He said, that gas valve is not controlled by it and we need to replace the whole unit immediately and if I don't have the money, I should get a loan or financing. I repeated if he can take a look at the box, that there is not enough voltage and that from my point of view, if there are going electric cables from the box to the valve box, it is probably controlling the valve. This got him really upset, but he checked it and said, that there is a problem with the box, it has only 14volts So, I asked if the transformer is not working. He said: most probably not. So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old, dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000. That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word. When he eventually stopped, I asked if he can clearly tell what the problem is. He said: electric box and that it's dirty. I said: I will clean it up, you repair the box. He said: No, got ****ed, closed the gas going to our furnace and left totally ****ed. I was walking right behind him, asking: "And, how much do we owe you?" He replied: "Nothing, if something happens here and you died, cheque/ bill would be a proof I was here and they could put me to jail! Ufff... so he gave me a scare at the point where he would accept any cash, until then he seems only like a regular asshole, trying to sell me a unit without even wanting to take a look at what the problem is. Can someone tell me what my next step should be? Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new furnace? I am kind of worried now, because of what he said and he is definitely a bigger expert than I am, but I have to think logically too... What do you suggest? |
#22
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Oct 18, 8:48 pm, wrote:
Ok guys, so here is an update. And a quite a weird one. I listened to your suggestions and checked the furnace and tried to figure this one out. I tried to see if it's dirty inside, and it is, dirty. Not entirely hideous, but 'hey' it's 20 years old and I doubt it was ever cleaned. I can't post the picture here, so just imagine, that the level of dirtiness inclines more to the negative side, if you know what I mean So, it's not very clean, dust everywhere inside, but I doubt that it is less dirty than it was this March (when it was still running). In my opinion this has nothing to do with how dirty it is. Then I checked the electric box and as Edwin Pawlowski said in this thread, voltage is low. It's not enough, only 14volts... why? I've no clue, because I don't have much knowledge of the topic. In the mean time, pilot is still working, everything else seems ok, except the burned never goes on. And that is probably caused by not enough voltage, thus gas valve is not opening. Anyhow, so because I know sh*t about what to do, I called an electrician/furnace repair man. This guy walks into our basement, kneels next to the furnace, doesn't do anything just looks at the burning pilot, shakes his head and says, that we should immediately turn it off, if we don't want to die. I am looking at him, trying to figure out, how the hell he could find the problem so quickly without checking anything. So I asked him if he could check the electric box and the voltage. He said, that gas valve is not controlled by it and we need to replace the whole unit immediately and if I don't have the money, I should get a loan or financing. I repeated if he can take a look at the box, that there is not enough voltage and that from my point of view, if there are going electric cables from the box to the valve box, it is probably controlling the valve. This got him really upset, but he checked it and said, that there is a problem with the box, it has only 14volts So, I asked if the transformer is not working. He said: most probably not. So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old, dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000. That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word. When he eventually stopped, I asked if he can clearly tell what the problem is. He said: electric box and that it's dirty. I said: I will clean it up, you repair the box. He said: No, got ****ed, closed the gas going to our furnace and left totally ****ed. I was walking right behind him, asking: "And, how much do we owe you?" He replied: "Nothing, if something happens here and you died, cheque/ bill would be a proof I was here and they could put me to jail! Ufff... so he gave me a scare at the point where he would accept any cash, until then he seems only like a regular asshole, trying to sell me a unit without even wanting to take a look at what the problem is. Can someone tell me what my next step should be? Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new furnace? I am kind of worried now, because of what he said and he is definitely a bigger expert than I am, but I have to think logically too... What do you suggest? Suggest you are being taken i have my gas ticket and this man is wrong about the valve suggest you phone your locle gas company tell them the story and see who they suggest or see if they will fix |
#23
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Calling someone from another
company. I hope someone can actually fix the problem, rather than scaring me without any obvious reason. This person seemed like a real ass, right from the moment he walked in to our house. Only problem I have with this whole story is, that he didn't take any cash. That is what is creating this whole dilemma in me, otherwise it would be more like a visit from the sales man. Hey, maybe this is one of their tactics, expecting us to call back and get a new furnace, maybe they're getting some bonuses for sales. On the other hand, if he is right, sh*t, you know... I am not prepared to die this winter Not yet, I am only 33 and I'd rather see myself retiring rich one day |
#24
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
wrote in message So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old, dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000. That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word. Did he at least kiss you and use a good lubricant? Can someone tell me what my next step should be? Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new furnace? Call a more reputable service man. This is a perfecft example of why calling a pro is not always the answer. Now, it may be possible that there is some other problem, such as the heat exchanger, but this guy should have been able to point out the problem and explain why it would cause concern. Normaly , I'd say replace the transformer, but to put you mind at ease, get a knowledgable person to check it out. Does your gas company offer service? |
#25
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
I am not sure if they do. It's 11pm here, so I will find out tomorrow.
Thanks guys. Any other suggestions would be more than welcome. Joe |
#26
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
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#28
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:55:09 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:
No high pressure sales from any of the three service guys to buy unasked for equipment. My game plan was if the estimate from a repair guy exceeded $500 I would toss out the existing furnace and install one of those high efficiency ones myself. Mine looks new (well maintained) but its already 28 years old thereabouts. When the heat exchanger tubes give out, as they must some day not too far into the future, they will no longer be replaceable . By law the stores are not allowed to to stock them as replacement parts or sell any. Same with that $183 regulator. If faulty, replace only, no repairs. Now if you HVAC guys can say this nicely, that your hands are tied by law (be prepared to show printed copy to customer) and give a best effort to do the simple fixes first, then perhaps you will get a much less hostile reaction from your customers. Explain what you did in repairs and why they didn't work. Gas fitting is not brain surgery that only HVAC guys can understand. Explain the problem solving procedures so that the customer knows they were something he could or could not have done. We all want to save a few bucks and this knowledge will satisfy the homeowner that its better to call you for fixes he'd realise as beyond his abilities. Then give them the "bad news" a $3000 replacement or some equally shocking figure. Give them the name of your supplier so that they can check on prices. And also the opportunity to select a particular model. The customer expects to pay you something extra and reasonable as a markup for you to order and deliver the hardware for them. And to get rid of the old one. You charge service fees accordingly. The dollar amount won't be pleasant. But an honest breakdown of the costs that the customer can check on avoids a lot of unwarranted suspicions and bad impressions. I went to a major appliance parts supplier store and they had a number of furnaces on display including the high efficiency ones. The panels had been removed so it was easy for me to make a close inspection of its assembly modules and installation requirements. To install a high efficiency furnace is a lot easier than to service one. Specified PVC ducting for the air intake and burner exhaust. The gas connection and the electrical connection. That's it. The new furnaces are shorter than the old gas furnaces. A transition plenum will be needed to connect the shorter) new furnace to the existing hot air plenum. My intended adaptation will be to instead make a steel stand to raise the furnace to the existing plenum. That way the bottom of the furnace will be off the floor and free from any dampness or standing water. My existing furnace is resting on spare aluminium bath door tracks and its free from rust and grime. I chatted with the store personnel and they didn't bat an eye on my intent to do the installation myself. In fact they gave a lot of pointers on things I should do, such as resizing the hot water heater exhaust vent (to a 4 inch liner) as my existing stack will be too large. I found the same information in the installation manual. But I still appreciated the information as it gives me the right information to make my installation plans in the meantime. The basic high efficiency furnace model is $1300. I can budget for that. |
#29
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Furnace Problems - Blowing cold air - Please help
I posted a few replies ago with my almost identical problem. I had a
professional come in and they located the problem. It was the pressure switch. So basically the first blower would start...then the pilot light would ignite...then the main gas would only come on for just a second...followed my the main fan. The pilot light would remain on and the furnace would act as if nothing was wrong. Once the pressure switch was replaced..all was well |
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