Hey guys,

I know nothing about how the furnace or heating work in general, but I
will try to explain my problem and I hope someone will be able to help
me out.

So here we go... I turned on the heating this morning, set it to like
25 degrees celsia, while outside was like 5 above zero and our gas
Furnace (maker: Clare) seemed to go on, but after a little while I
realized it is blowing only a cold air. So I went to basement and
checked the furnace pilot. It was on and burning.

I thought maybe furnace needs to be reset, so I turned off furnace
power switch, waited couple minutes, then turned it back on, but it's
a same problem. Pilot is on, but that coil in the furnace where gas
goes to burn never fires up.

Anyhow, so I checked our air filters and there was a lot of dust on
it... and I mean a lot... so I cleaned it properly, put it back, but
when I turned air filter box on, that little led light doesn't light
up and I can't recall if it did before or not. But before I could
always hear like little sparks from this air filter and now it seems
completely dead.

I wonder if the air filter and the fact that it might be damaged could
somehow affect the furnace itself.

Please tell me what else I can try. I am no longer sure what is going
on. Not sure if I should call a furnace repair man, or electrician or
if there is anything else I can try.

Joe

On Oct 13, 1:10 pm, wrote:
Hey guys,

I know nothing about how the furnace or heating work in general, but I
will try to explain my problem and I hope someone will be able to help
me out.

So here we go... I turned on the heating this morning, set it to like
25 degrees celsia, while outside was like 5 above zero and our gas
Furnace (maker: Clare) seemed to go on, but after a little while I
realized it is blowing only a cold air. So I went to basement and
checked the furnace pilot. It was on and burning.

I thought maybe furnace needs to be reset, so I turned off furnace
power switch, waited couple minutes, then turned it back on, but it's
a same problem. Pilot is on, but that coil in the furnace where gas
goes to burn never fires up.

Anyhow, so I checked our air filters and there was a lot of dust on
it... and I mean a lot... so I cleaned it properly, put it back, but
when I turned air filter box on, that little led light doesn't light
up and I can't recall if it did before or not. But before I could
always hear like little sparks from this air filter and now it seems
completely dead.

I wonder if the air filter and the fact that it might be damaged could
somehow affect the furnace itself.

Please tell me what else I can try. I am no longer sure what is going
on. Not sure if I should call a furnace repair man, or electrician or
if there is anything else I can try.

Joe

Maybe you just turned the fan on. Usually the blower on a furnace will
not start until the burners have been ignited, unless of course you
just turned on the fan on the T-stat. An air filter would not cause
the burners not to ignite.
If all else looks ok, then call a tech.

Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO.

Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but
burners are not ignited.
What could be the reason for burners not igniting?

wrote in message
ps.com...
Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO.

Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but
burners are not ignited.
What could be the reason for burners not igniting?


Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple
that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is
bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas
valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally
cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers.

Thanks Edwin,

If I understand this right, the thermocouple is a sensor which senses
if the pilot flame is hot enough to sustain burning the gasfuel from
the burner, right?
So if it's broken, the thermocouple keeps the main gas valve located
in the pilot assembly closed and it shuts off the gas valve to the
burners?

Hm, that makes sense and that is possibly a reason why my pilot is on,
but burner is not.

Is it hard to replace? Where would it be located on this 20 year or
gas furnace, brand: CLARE?
Any idea? Should I do it myself or is there a way to just clean the
thermocouple from dust or something like that to make it work?

No, dirt is generally not an issue. At 20 years, a defective
therocouple is quite reasonable. They are easy to install (screw-in
deal), but considering your lack of familiarity with gas appliances,
I'd call the gas company, or whoever services your burner. The other
issue is making sure that you have the right size themocouple. Not a
big deal, and 1/2 time, at most. It is also possible that you have a
defective gas valve, or power is not getting to the electrical
controls on the valve. Check fuses first, before you call, and that
the breaker is Ok for that circuit.

wrote:

Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO.

Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but
burners are not ignited.
What could be the reason for burners not igniting?

Hi,
Can't you think logic? Thermostat sends heat command signal(24V AC on W
terminal) to furnace furnace gets the signal and actuate gas
valve valve opens gas flows pilot ignites the gas so on and
so on. Follow this logic flow and see where the trouble is. If it is
over your head, call the pro.

professorpaul wrote:

No, dirt is generally not an issue. At 20 years, a defective
therocouple is quite reasonable. They are easy to install (screw-in
deal), but considering your lack of familiarity with gas appliances,
I'd call the gas company, or whoever services your burner. The other
issue is making sure that you have the right size themocouple. Not a
big deal, and 1/2 time, at most. It is also possible that you have a
defective gas valve, or power is not getting to the electrical
controls on the valve. Check fuses first, before you call, and that
the breaker is Ok for that circuit.

Hi,
Commonly thermocouple's job is to supply small amount of gas to keep the
pilot stay on. If it's bad pilot will go out.

wrote:
Thanks Edwin,

If I understand this right, the thermocouple is a sensor which senses
if the pilot flame is hot enough to sustain burning the gasfuel from
the burner, right?

On the ones I have seen, the thermocouple is used to control the pilot
light. In other words, the pilot light will go out if the thermocouple
does not sense the pilot light being on. Therefore it will NOT release
gas to burn, OR to keep the pilot light lit. Yours may be different,
but that is how the ones I have seen work.

That would lead me to believe that the thermocouple is PROBABLY good
since your pilot light stays lit. Check for 24V A/C across the coil of
the gas valve when heat is being called for. No 24V, a problem with the
wiring to, or the thermostat. If you have 24V, remove one lead and
check for an open coil on the gas valve. It happens quite often.

It goes without saying that your gas valve is set to the "ON" position
and not on the "Pilot" position. Being in the pilot position would give
you the symptoms you described. If you do not feel capable of making
these checks, call a serviceman for the furnace. Electricity and gas
are two things you should not mess with unless you are sure of what you
are doing.


So if it's broken, the thermocouple keeps the main gas valve located
in the pilot assembly closed and it shuts off the gas valve to the
burners?

Hm, that makes sense and that is possibly a reason why my pilot is on,
but burner is not.

Is it hard to replace? Where would it be located on this 20 year or
gas furnace, brand: CLARE?
Any idea? Should I do it myself or is there a way to just clean the
thermocouple from dust or something like that to make it work?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

wrote in message
ps.com...
Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO.

Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but
burners are not ignited.
What could be the reason for burners not igniting?


Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple
that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is
bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas
valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally
cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers.


Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad?

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message


Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a
thermocouple
that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple
is
bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas
valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally
cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers.


Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad?

It is a possibility Although the thermocouple is supposed to keep the pilot
valve open, I've had it where the pilot would still light and the burner
would not get the signal to open. Fixed our heater at work.

There are other possibilities. Gas valve, limit switch. May also be a
solenoid sticking after sitting all summer. What do you suggest?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message


Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a
thermocouple
that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple
is
bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas
valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are
generally
cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers.


Are you suggesting that his thermocouple is bad?

It is a possibility Although the thermocouple is supposed to keep the
pilot
valve open, I've had it where the pilot would still light and the burner
would not get the signal to open. Fixed our heater at work.

There are other possibilities. Gas valve, limit switch. May also be a
solenoid sticking after sitting all summer. What do you suggest?


I suggest that he call in someone that's qualified to work on gas furnaces,
as it's painfully obvious that he's not.

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 14:35:51 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote in message
ups.com...
Termostat fan was set to ON.
I set the termostat to HEAT and FAN option to: AUTO.

Now it's not doing anything. Pilot on our furnace is burning, but
burners are not ignited.
What could be the reason for burners not igniting?


Thermostat is in the proper position. The pilot is heating a thermocouple
that says it is OK for the main gas valve to open. If the thermocouple is
bad, the heat will not go on. It is a safety device to assure the gas
valve does not open with no way of igniting the gas. They are generally
cheap and can be found a good hardware stores and home centers.


If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you
frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause
heating isn't it.

old furnace dude wrote in message
...



If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you
frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause
heating isn't it.

Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was
lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was low.
I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what
do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a
mean old *******?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news

old furnace dude wrote in message
...



If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you
frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause
heating isn't it.

Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was
lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was
low.
I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what
do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a
mean old *******?


Try looking up the difference between a thermocouple and a thermopile.
Then, the next time you try to help an OP, make sure you're familiar with
their equipment.

I had thought ( at least with most furnaces) that the blower will come
on only after the burners ignite, so why is this blower coming on if
the burners are not on?

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 06:06:31 -0700, Mikepier
wrote:

I had thought ( at least with most furnaces) that the blower will come
on only after the burners ignite, so why is this blower coming on if
the burners are not on?


Because the fan relay is bad or a limit switch is open. DUH!

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:18:57 -0400, "Edwin Pawlowski"
wrote:


old furnace dude wrote in message
.. .



If the termocouple were bad then the pilot would not stay lit you
frickin idiot. Stick to givivng advice about something you know cause
heating isn't it.

Best you can do is call names? I had a furnace problems and the pilot was
lit, but the thermocouple was still the cause. Perhaps the voltage was low.
I did not test it. It may not be common, but it was in my case. So, what
do you propose as a solution or did you just come here to show you are a
mean old *******?



Go crawl in a hole eddy, you're a ****ing dumbass. How's that for name
calling asshole?

old furnace dude wrote in message
How's that for name
calling asshole?

About what I'd expect. Your mamma is proud of you.

On Oct 15, 10:03 am, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
old furnace dude wrote in message
How's that for name
calling asshole?

About what I'd expect. Your mamma is proud of you.

I am having the exact problem with my Clare furnace. The first blower
starts...then the pilot light ignites....then the main burner kicks on
for only a second...then the main blower starts and it acts as if
nothing is wrong. Even the small computer lights up like there is
nothing wrong. Of course it only blows cold air and never shuts off
because the t-stat never climbs.

Any help?

Thanks,

Ok guys, so here is an update. And a quite a weird one.

I listened to your suggestions and checked the furnace and tried to
figure this one out.
I tried to see if it's dirty inside, and it is, dirty. Not entirely
hideous, but 'hey' it's 20 years old and I doubt it was ever cleaned.
I can't post the picture here, so just imagine, that the level of
dirtiness inclines more to the negative side, if you know what I
mean

So, it's not very clean, dust everywhere inside, but I doubt that it
is less dirty than it was this March (when it was still running).

In my opinion this has nothing to do with how dirty it is.

Then I checked the electric box and as Edwin Pawlowski said in this
thread, voltage is low. It's not enough, only 14volts... why?
I've no clue, because I don't have much knowledge of the topic.

In the mean time, pilot is still working, everything else seems ok,
except the burned never goes on. And that is probably caused by not
enough voltage, thus gas valve is not opening.

Anyhow, so because I know sh*t about what to do, I called an
electrician/furnace repair man.

This guy walks into our basement, kneels next to the furnace, doesn't
do anything just looks at the burning pilot, shakes his head and says,
that we should immediately turn it off, if we don't want to die.
I am looking at him, trying to figure out, how the hell he could find
the problem so quickly without checking anything.
So I asked him if he could check the electric box and the voltage. He
said, that gas valve is not controlled by it and we need to replace
the whole unit immediately and if I don't have the money, I should get
a loan or financing.
I repeated if he can take a look at the box, that there is not enough
voltage and that from my point of view, if there are going electric
cables from the box to the valve box, it is probably controlling the
valve.

This got him really upset, but he checked it and said, that there is a
problem with the box, it has only 14volts
So, I asked if the transformer is not working. He said: most probably
not.

So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old,
dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000.
That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he
doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us
afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word.

When he eventually stopped, I asked if he can clearly tell what the
problem is. He said: electric box and that it's dirty.
I said: I will clean it up, you repair the box.
He said: No, got ****ed, closed the gas going to our furnace and left
totally ****ed. I was walking right behind him, asking: "And, how much
do we owe you?"
He replied: "Nothing, if something happens here and you died, cheque/
bill would be a proof I was here and they could put me to jail!

Ufff... so he gave me a scare at the point where he would accept any
cash, until then he seems only like a regular asshole, trying to sell
me a unit without even wanting to take a look at what the problem is.

Can someone tell me what my next step should be?
Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer
from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new
furnace?

I am kind of worried now, because of what he said and he is definitely
a bigger expert than I am, but I have to think logically too...

What do you suggest?

On Oct 18, 8:48 pm, wrote:
Ok guys, so here is an update. And a quite a weird one.

I listened to your suggestions and checked the furnace and tried to
figure this one out.
I tried to see if it's dirty inside, and it is, dirty. Not entirely
hideous, but 'hey' it's 20 years old and I doubt it was ever cleaned.
I can't post the picture here, so just imagine, that the level of
dirtiness inclines more to the negative side, if you know what I
mean

So, it's not very clean, dust everywhere inside, but I doubt that it
is less dirty than it was this March (when it was still running).

In my opinion this has nothing to do with how dirty it is.

Then I checked the electric box and as Edwin Pawlowski said in this
thread, voltage is low. It's not enough, only 14volts... why?
I've no clue, because I don't have much knowledge of the topic.

In the mean time, pilot is still working, everything else seems ok,
except the burned never goes on. And that is probably caused by not
enough voltage, thus gas valve is not opening.

Anyhow, so because I know sh*t about what to do, I called an
electrician/furnace repair man.

This guy walks into our basement, kneels next to the furnace, doesn't
do anything just looks at the burning pilot, shakes his head and says,
that we should immediately turn it off, if we don't want to die.
I am looking at him, trying to figure out, how the hell he could find
the problem so quickly without checking anything.
So I asked him if he could check the electric box and the voltage. He
said, that gas valve is not controlled by it and we need to replace
the whole unit immediately and if I don't have the money, I should get
a loan or financing.
I repeated if he can take a look at the box, that there is not enough
voltage and that from my point of view, if there are going electric
cables from the box to the valve box, it is probably controlling the
valve.

This got him really upset, but he checked it and said, that there is a
problem with the box, it has only 14volts
So, I asked if the transformer is not working. He said: most probably
not.

So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old,
dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000.
That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he
doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us
afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word.

When he eventually stopped, I asked if he can clearly tell what the
problem is. He said: electric box and that it's dirty.
I said: I will clean it up, you repair the box.
He said: No, got ****ed, closed the gas going to our furnace and left
totally ****ed. I was walking right behind him, asking: "And, how much
do we owe you?"
He replied: "Nothing, if something happens here and you died, cheque/
bill would be a proof I was here and they could put me to jail!

Ufff... so he gave me a scare at the point where he would accept any
cash, until then he seems only like a regular asshole, trying to sell
me a unit without even wanting to take a look at what the problem is.

Can someone tell me what my next step should be?
Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer
from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new
furnace?

I am kind of worried now, because of what he said and he is definitely
a bigger expert than I am, but I have to think logically too...

What do you suggest?

Suggest you are being taken i have my gas ticket and this man is wrong
about the valve suggest you phone your locle gas company tell them the
story and see who they suggest or see if they will fix

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. Calling someone from another
company.
I hope someone can actually fix the problem, rather than scaring me
without any obvious reason.
This person seemed like a real ass, right from the moment he walked in
to our house.
Only problem I have with this whole story is, that he didn't take any
cash.
That is what is creating this whole dilemma in me, otherwise it would
be more like a visit from the sales man.
Hey, maybe this is one of their tactics, expecting us to call back and
get a new furnace, maybe they're getting some bonuses for sales.
On the other hand, if he is right, sh*t, you know... I am not prepared
to die this winter
Not yet, I am only 33 and I'd rather see myself retiring rich one
day

wrote in message
So, he was a bit shaking at this point and told me that it's old,
dirty. That cleaning will cost me $600 and the new unit $2000.
That he won't repair electric box, because even if it worked, he
doesn't want to have anything to do with the fact it will kill us
afterwards... and so on and on... wouldn't let me say one word.


Did he at least kiss you and use a good lubricant?




Can someone tell me what my next step should be?
Should I call another electrician and let him repair the transformer
from 120 to 24volt and run the unit, or forget it and buy a new
furnace?


Call a more reputable service man. This is a perfecft example of why
calling a pro is not always the answer. Now, it may be possible that there
is some other problem, such as the heat exchanger, but this guy should have
been able to point out the problem and explain why it would cause concern.

Normaly , I'd say replace the transformer, but to put you mind at ease, get
a knowledgable person to check it out. Does your gas company offer service?

I am not sure if they do. It's 11pm here, so I will find out tomorrow.
Thanks guys.
Any other suggestions would be more than welcome.
Joe

In article om,
wrote:

I am not sure if they do. It's 11pm here, so I will find out tomorrow.
Thanks guys.
Any other suggestions would be more than welcome.
Joe

I'm pretty sure that all gas companies come out at no charge to
customers when there's any safety concern whatsoever. They aren't going
to make major repairs gratis, but I think they'll evaluate the situation
for you.

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:48:29 -0700, wrote:

Then I checked the electric box and as Edwin Pawlowski said in this
thread, voltage is low. It's not enough, only 14volts... why?
I've no clue, because I don't have much knowledge of the topic.


I had the same problem for a week now, pilot light on but no flame.
Then after some heroic fiddling around I have flame but have to turn
it off by hand, that is turn the regulator control from gas ON to
PILOT to shut off the main burners. As luck would have it the fall
weather turned really nice after an early near freeze. Therefore I
was no longer under the gun to fix it immediately. If I needed heat I
just turn it on long enough to warm up. I'm mostly at home all day
and night so there's no problem of anything (water pipes) freezing up.

I'll go straight to the things you can check out. In my case the
final problem was that the insulation for 24Vac wire leads to the
upstairs thermostat had baked hard and cracked. 25 years next to the
hot burner section of the furnace does that. It shorted taking out
the old style mercury switch thermostat. I'll have to replace that.
These are no longer available, mercury is a harzardous material under
current regulations I shall get a non programmable electronic
thermostat. I hate the programmable type as I can never remember how
to reset them for daylight saving time for example.

1. Go check all your wires and replace any that seem less than prime
condition Check that the 24Vac transormer and measure the voltages to
ensure they are all there. Measure the voltage output yourself. The
14V reported by your service guy doesn't sound right. The label on
your regulator should specify this (24Vac). If so replace with a 24
volt unit.

2. In case your thermostat is shot go to the furnace regulator and
disconnect one of the two thermostat wires on the regulator terminal
assigned to the thermostat. Then jumper the disconnected terminal to
the transformer (ie close the circuit without passing through the
thermostat.) If the burners fire up you have a bad thermostat.
Replace.

Correction. Do this jumper test first as this is easy to do.

3. Give the gas regulator a good thump with a rubber mallet. This
may loosen a stuck valve if that is the cause of your problem. That's
what the service technician did. It didn't solve my problem but
that's something you can do yourself and check it out.

4. Call your gas company emergency service to check out your furnace.
I was so freaked out by the horror servicemen from hell stories (eg
yours) that I resisted calling one. My gas company ATCO Gas of Canada
has a wonderful 24 hour emergency service. They came for all my three
calls (long story) within 3 hours.

4:1 The first call was when I lost my hot water heater flame too after
having shut off the gas supply to work on the furnace. The darn heat
regulator switch wouldn't turn far enough for me to reset ON the
safety shut off. All it required was to pop off the swich cover and
turn the switch stem by hand. He had too many calls and wouldn't work
on my furnace. No charge.

4:2 I couldn't for the life of me budge the gas regulator with a big
wrench to unscrew and replace it. I dared not use more force as the
burner manifold was already starting to twist and I dreaded breaking
anything. So I made another service call. Voltage checks OK. Good
thump didn't loosen stuck valve. Said I would have to replace the
regulator. I was too muddled to take up his offer to do the job then
and there. (I found out in 4:3 that it would have cost me only around
$5 more than I paid for a new regulator) I told him my problem with
uninstalling the regulator. He did it for me. I'll buy the new unit
and install it myself. No charge.

4.3 Bought a new regulator $183 incl tax and installed it. No main
burner flame. Voltages checked out OK. I had already spent enough
effort and time to have lost track of my trouble shooting steps and
options. Called ATCO Emergency Service. Guy came. Spotted crappy
thermostat wires. Did the jumper thingy. Saw burn marks on
thermostat dial. Problem solved. 30 minutes. No charge.

No high pressure sales from any of the three service guys to buy
unasked for equipment.

=================================================
From your post there won't be much youcan do besides the electrical
checks and the big thump. At least you will be satisfied that if its
a regulator problem swapping in a new regulator is the only fix a HVAC
guy can legally do. Phone up your gas company's emergency service and
find out what services they provide. The three different guys I had
were the most pleasant and helpful guys I have come across. They
didn't bat an eye when I told him my attempts at repairs and my intent
to replace the regulator myself. This gave me confirmation that what I
did was not some dumbfool thing.

Their emergency service is to restore gas service and simple fixes for
home gas fueled equipment - furnaces, water heaters, fireplaces. If
your installation needed major work requiring a tradesman to correct
that's not his job and he'll advise you.
================================================

I went to the appliance parts store to get a replacement regulator
before attempting to do any fancier repairs. My gas regulator model
is found in http://www.amresupply.com/category_view/H/HK,21,3 model
identified as SKU V800A1161.

The parts supplier can only sell the complete factory assembled unit,
no sub assemblies. By law he cannot sell any unit that has been
disassembled and reassembled. Once installed (used) he cannot take it
back for a refund. The service technician says the same thing. He
can only check the voltages and connections or change a whole
regulator. He cannot open up the regulator to do repairs. He doesn't
even know how the parts inside work though like me he must have opened
up a scrapped one to self educate. I shall write this up in due
course on what's inside and decide for yourself if you want give parts
repairs a shot.

Actually its quite simple. On the bottom of the regulator are four
long screws. Undo them, the cover plate (has smaller parts) and the
bottom half assembly should come loose (jiggle it) to expose a
teeter-totter assembly. The rubber valve at one end of this assembly
covers a gas orifice. Mine was slightly stuck and popped open when I
took off the bottom assembly. Had I not been alert I would have
likely missed noticing the stickiness. Not that it matters since
loosening it is the idea. The other subassemblies of the regulator
are very simple, non moving and built like a tank. They won't wear
out. There's nothing to repair. Messing with them will likely
introduce problems that were not there originally. All parts are
keyed to prevent incorrect reassembly.

If you ever do major work like I shut off the main gas supply and the
electrical power to the furnace before working on it. Shutting the
gas off for an extended period causes the safety shutoff at the
regulator next to the gas meter to set. Very little gas flows into
the gasline. The dinnerplate sized gas regulator has a center stem
(like a mushroom stem) Unscrew the thimble shaped cap at the tip. It
will reveal a metal stem. Pull on it and it will feel like popping a
suction cup. This resets the safety and lets the gas flow into the
line again.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 07:55:09 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:


No high pressure sales from any of the three service guys to buy
unasked for equipment.


My game plan was if the estimate from a repair guy exceeded $500 I
would toss out the existing furnace and install one of those high
efficiency ones myself. Mine looks new (well maintained) but its
already 28 years old thereabouts. When the heat exchanger tubes give
out, as they must some day not too far into the future, they will no
longer be replaceable . By law the stores are not allowed to to stock
them as replacement parts or sell any. Same with that $183 regulator.
If faulty, replace only, no repairs.

Now if you HVAC guys can say this nicely, that your hands are tied by
law (be prepared to show printed copy to customer) and give a best
effort to do the simple fixes first, then perhaps you will get a much
less hostile reaction from your customers. Explain what you did in
repairs and why they didn't work. Gas fitting is not brain surgery
that only HVAC guys can understand. Explain the problem solving
procedures so that the customer knows they were something he could or
could not have done. We all want to save a few bucks and this
knowledge will satisfy the homeowner that its better to call you for
fixes he'd realise as beyond his abilities.

Then give them the "bad news" a $3000 replacement or some equally
shocking figure. Give them the name of your supplier so that they can
check on prices. And also the opportunity to select a particular
model. The customer expects to pay you something extra and reasonable
as a markup for you to order and deliver the hardware for them. And
to get rid of the old one. You charge service fees accordingly. The
dollar amount won't be pleasant. But an honest breakdown of the costs
that the customer can check on avoids a lot of unwarranted suspicions
and bad impressions.

I went to a major appliance parts supplier store and they had a number
of furnaces on display including the high efficiency ones. The panels
had been removed so it was easy for me to make a close inspection of
its assembly modules and installation requirements. To install a high
efficiency furnace is a lot easier than to service one. Specified PVC
ducting for the air intake and burner exhaust. The gas connection and
the electrical connection. That's it.

The new furnaces are shorter than the old gas furnaces. A transition
plenum will be needed to connect the shorter) new furnace to the
existing hot air plenum. My intended adaptation will be to instead
make a steel stand to raise the furnace to the existing plenum. That
way the bottom of the furnace will be off the floor and free from any
dampness or standing water. My existing furnace is resting on spare
aluminium bath door tracks and its free from rust and grime.

I chatted with the store personnel and they didn't bat an eye on my
intent to do the installation myself. In fact they gave a lot of
pointers on things I should do, such as resizing the hot water heater
exhaust vent (to a 4 inch liner) as my existing stack will be too
large. I found the same information in the installation manual. But
I still appreciated the information as it gives me the right
information to make my installation plans in the meantime.

The basic high efficiency furnace model is $1300. I can budget for
that.

I posted a few replies ago with my almost identical problem. I had a
professional come in and they located the problem. It was the pressure
switch. So basically the first blower would start...then the pilot
light would ignite...then the main gas would only come on for just a
second...followed my the main fan. The pilot light would remain on and
the furnace would act as if nothing was wrong. Once the pressure
switch was replaced..all was well