X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.


Thats what hammer drills are for and also the reason why star drills are
not so popular.

On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:24:26 -0400, willshak
wrote:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

I'm 100% sure they are available, but I really don't think many 1/2"
corded drills will do much for you.

These are impact, so you need an impact tool.

I use an IR tool that uses star bits, works nicely (but is air
powered!) I know you can rent electric ones (or buy, but they are
expensive).

But using a star drill in a standard drill won't do you any good,
you'll never really make a hole--you have to have impact. BTW, with my
IR tool, I provide the rotating force, the tool only provides the
impact. And if I don't provide rotational force, things get very
strange after a short while! (I usualy do a continous 90 degree
rotation back and forth as I'm drilling...)

And, yes, the star drill will work better. I punch 3/4" holes about
three inches deep in about a minute or so per hole.

Try a tool rental place. Tell them what you need, they will have
something to do it.

willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

Try Google
http://www.google.com/products?q=sta...Search&show=li
will get you about 10 to choose from, about $10

We pretty much stopped using them in the early 70' but I would expect an
electrical supply to have them. For 40 holes, you'd be better off using a
rental hammer drill. Without the hammer, that blue stone aggregate just
burns up bits



"willshak" wrote in message
...
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that matter,
small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round chisel type
tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge hammer while
turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The face of this
chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a plus sign " +
". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a large
punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/6/2007 5:54 PM Glenn said the following:
Obviously you have never used a star drill.

Obviously, you don't know anything about me.

Forget it. You will use the electric drill only, after about 15 min
of pounding on the star drill. Maybe you are pushing it too hard. I
usually drilled a 1/4" hole and then drilled it out bigger with the
1/2" or whatever.


"willshak" wrote in message
...
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2"
corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/6/2007 6:36 PM Reed said the following:
willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2"
corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

Try Google
http://www.google.com/products?q=sta...Search&show=li
will get you about 10 to choose from, about $10

Thank you for the direct answer to my question.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/6/2007 6:05 PM PeterD said the following:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:24:26 -0400, willshak
wrote:


X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.


I'm 100% sure they are available, but I really don't think many 1/2"
corded drills will do much for you.

These are impact, so you need an impact tool.

I use an IR tool that uses star bits, works nicely (but is air
powered!) I know you can rent electric ones (or buy, but they are
expensive).

But using a star drill in a standard drill won't do you any good,
you'll never really make a hole--you have to have impact.

I have the small sledge hammer. I just want the hand tool star drill.
I'm not going to try to put it in the electric drill. When the electric
drill with the concrete bit just spins on a bit of aggregate I can use
the star drill to break up the aggregate.

BTW, with my
IR tool, I provide the rotating force, the tool only provides the
impact. And if I don't provide rotational force, things get very
strange after a short while! (I usualy do a continous 90 degree
rotation back and forth as I'm drilling...)

And, yes, the star drill will work better. I punch 3/4" holes about
three inches deep in about a minute or so per hole.

Try a tool rental place. Tell them what you need, they will have
something to do it.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 6, 4:24 pm, willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

Bill, the classic hand held star drills are still available.
Unless you're a masochist, the best thing to do would
be to rent a big SDS hammer drill if you don't own one.
I have a Bosch hammer drill that would make short work
out of 40 holes.

http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/...ar-drills.aspx

[8~{} Uncle Monster

On Oct 6, 2:24 pm, willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Yep, 'star drill' is the correct term.

The hammers used on them even have their own names...wel it is really
the name of how they are used vice the hamer itsself..

'Single Jack' - one operator who both holds the drill and hammers on
it.

'Double Jack" - one person holds the drill and another uses a much
bigger sledge hammer. That is one place where the old joke "when I
nod my head, hit it" comes from.

I even have a 3/4" one. I have tried using it a few times but gave
up. If my piddly littlel 3/8" 'hammer drill' won't cut it, it is off
to the rental to rent a big electric. The speed those things go
through holes is more than worth the rental cost.

Harry K

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.


s


"willshak" wrote in message
...
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that matter,
small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round chisel type
tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge hammer while
turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The face of this
chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a plus sign " +
". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a large
punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:
You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.


No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover on
my inground pool. The holes are to hold the cover's 40 spring loaded
straps. Previously, I had been using the solid winter cover with water
bags. I just got tired of cleaning the water and debris that accumulated
on top of the cover when I went to open the pool in summer. I looked
enviously at my neighbor's mesh cover all winter and it was clean except
for a couple of twigs laying on top. Then I looked at mine and there was
a foot of dirty, leafy water after the rain and melting snow had pushed
the cover deeper into the clean pool water.

When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.


s


"willshak" wrote in message
...

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that matter,
small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round chisel type
tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge hammer while
turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The face of this
chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a plus sign " +
". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a large
punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @






--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:
on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover on
my inground pool. The holes are to hold the cover's 40 spring loaded
straps. Previously, I had been using the solid winter cover with water
bags. I just got tired of cleaning the water and debris that accumulated
on top of the cover when I went to open the pool in summer. I looked
enviously at my neighbor's mesh cover all winter and it was clean except
for a couple of twigs laying on top. Then I looked at mine and there was
a foot of dirty, leafy water after the rain and melting snow had pushed
the cover deeper into the clean pool water.

When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute. Yes, I know they used star
drills for ages, and yes I know you could do it that way, but I'd
borrow or rent one, or buy/sell on eBay to get the proper tool for the
job. You'll find all sorts of projects for it.

R

on 10/6/2007 11:48 PM RicodJour said the following:
On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:


You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover on
my inground pool. The holes are to hold the cover's 40 spring loaded
straps. Previously, I had been using the solid winter cover with water
bags. I just got tired of cleaning the water and debris that accumulated
on top of the cover when I went to open the pool in summer. I looked
enviously at my neighbor's mesh cover all winter and it was clean except
for a couple of twigs laying on top. Then I looked at mine and there was
a foot of dirty, leafy water after the rain and melting snow had pushed
the cover deeper into the clean pool water.

When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.


The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute.

I don't see the analogy about using a screwdriver as a chisel when the
hand tool I was asking about is used for the purpose for which it was made.

Yes, I know they used star
drills for ages, and yes I know you could do it that way, but I'd
borrow or rent one, or buy/sell on eBay to get the proper tool for the
job. You'll find all sorts of projects for it.

R




--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 7, 12:34 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/6/2007 11:48 PM RicodJour said the following:



On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover on
my inground pool.
{snip}
When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute.

I don't see the analogy about using a screwdriver as a chisel when the
hand tool I was asking about is used for the purpose for which it was made.

Hence the 'vaguely akin'. I was going to go with the 'asking for help
selecting a horse drawn buggy' analogy, but I thought I'd stick to
tools.

Not sure why your Google search turned up dead ends. When I Googled
"star drill" it came up with a bunch of hits - Ace Hardware has them
and eBay as well.
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-dasco-...i-1292223.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Enders-3-4-star-...mZ260075794953

You'll be spending $10 or $20 on something you'll probably never use
again and it's going to take you far more time to do the drilling.
Your time, your money.

R

On Oct 6, 2:24 pm, willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

You didn't say (or I missed) how deep the holes needed to be.

But even shallow 3/4" holes will take some time to drill 40 with a
start drill (basically a hand operated masonry drilling system)

Rent (or borrow) Hilti or Milwaukee rotary hammer....either will make
short work of 40 3/4" holes.

A regular drill motor & a concrete bit will take FOREVER (BTDT) use
a rotary hammer, fast & easy.

Don't bear down on the tool, let it do the drilling & you'll be done
in a few hours depending on hole depth.

cheers
Bob

You are also going to have difficulty making any where near as clean and
straight hole as with a rotary hammer


"RicodJour" wrote in message
s.com...
On Oct 7, 12:34 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/6/2007 11:48 PM RicodJour said the following:



On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured
concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover
on
my inground pool.
{snip}
When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole,
the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time
I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch
with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill
can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the
star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute.

I don't see the analogy about using a screwdriver as a chisel when the
hand tool I was asking about is used for the purpose for which it was
made.

Hence the 'vaguely akin'. I was going to go with the 'asking for help
selecting a horse drawn buggy' analogy, but I thought I'd stick to
tools.

Not sure why your Google search turned up dead ends. When I Googled
"star drill" it came up with a bunch of hits - Ace Hardware has them
and eBay as well.
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-dasco-...i-1292223.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Enders-3-4-star-...mZ260075794953

You'll be spending $10 or $20 on something you'll probably never use
again and it's going to take you far more time to do the drilling.
Your time, your money.

R

On Oct 7, 8:01?am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
You are also going to have difficulty making any where near as clean and
straight hole as with a rotary hammer

"RicodJour" wrote in message

s.com...



On Oct 7, 12:34 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/6/2007 11:48 PM RicodJour said the following:

On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured
concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover
on
my inground pool.
{snip}
When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole,
the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time
I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch
with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill
can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the
star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute.

I don't see the analogy about using a screwdriver as a chisel when the
hand tool I was asking about is used for the purpose for which it was
made.

Hence the 'vaguely akin'. I was going to go with the 'asking for help
selecting a horse drawn buggy' analogy, but I thought I'd stick to
tools.

Not sure why your Google search turned up dead ends. When I Googled
"star drill" it came up with a bunch of hits - Ace Hardware has them
and eBay as well.
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-dasco-...i-1292223.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/Enders-3-4-star-...chisel-used_W0...

You'll be spending $10 or $20 on something you'll probably never use
again and it's going to take you far more time to do the drilling.
Your time, your money.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

harbor freight sells a hammer drill for 60 bucks bits a little more. a
great price for a occasional need tool.

star drills work but can take hours, hammer drill can do the same job
better in 5 minutes...

plus you have the tool for the next time you need a hole, or have
other jobs. the chisel bit is wonderful, used it once to hrak up a big
rock in my yard when planting some stuff.

Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a misunderstanding.
Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2" electric until you hit a piece
of aggregate and then use the star drill and sledge to break that up? Then
returning to the drill.
If that's the plan then I believe that Home Depot has star drill's or any
decent sized hardware store should have one. If you have a stone and tile
dealer near by I'ld give them a call.
Of course renting or buying a hammer drill is another answer.
Good luck.
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

willshak wrote:

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well. Your question is vaguely akin to someone asking which is the
best brand of screwdriver to use as a chisel, 'cepting a screwdriver
is a lot closer to a chisel substitute.

I don't see the analogy about using a screwdriver as a chisel when the
hand tool I was asking about is used for the purpose for which it was made.


People are just trying to point out that you are really choosing to make
a lot of work for yourself by insisting on using a star drill which no
one uses anymore for obvious reasons.

You could rent a rotary hammer for not much more than the cost of a star
drill and drill all of the holes in no time with considerably less effort.


Yes, I know they used star
drills for ages, and yes I know you could do it that way, but I'd
borrow or rent one, or buy/sell on eBay to get the proper tool for the
job. You'll find all sorts of projects for it.

R

on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:
Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!
And thanks to all the others who participated. You'll get a Board Game
version of our show on the way out of the studio.

And as an aside, I checked at Lowes last night, and in the tool
department, there was a Lowes guy. Maybe a little younger than me,
probably in his 60s. I asked him if he was the tool guy. He said "Kinda,
I just started in this department". I asked him if he knew what a Star
Drill was, he looked puzzled and said, "All our drill bits are over
here" pointed to a wall display. I said "it isn't a drill per se, but
more of a concrete chisel:. He then walked me to the wall display with
all the chisels.and said, "Here's all the chisels. If it isn't in this
area, we don't have it" and walked away. They didn't have it.

If that's the plan then I believe that Home Depot has star drill's or
any decent sized hardware store should have one. If you have a stone
and tile dealer near by I'ld give them a call.
Of course renting or buying a hammer drill is another answer.
Good luck.
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 7, 10:14 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:



Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!

I don't think anybody assumed otherwise or the pointed responses would
have been more vociferous.
You'll be making a lot of work for yourself and wasting time for no
apparent reason. There are better exercises than kneeling over a hole
and hitting a chisel with a lump hammer.

I'm curious, Bill - what is the reason that you're ignoring entirely
unanimous advice from a group of people that probably wouldn't agree
on which way was up? Were you starting with the 3/4" bit or starting
with a smaller bit and working your way up in two or three steps?

R

On Oct 6, 8:28 pm, willshak wrote:
on 10/6/2007 10:55 PM Steve Barker LT said the following:

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill. You also may be
encountering rebar.

No rebar. I'm drilling 3/4" diameter holes 2" deep in a poured concrete
sidewalk around my pool. The holes are to attach a mesh winter cover on
my inground pool. The holes are to hold the cover's 40 spring loaded
straps. Previously, I had been using the solid winter cover with water
bags. I just got tired of cleaning the water and debris that accumulated
on top of the cover when I went to open the pool in summer. I looked
enviously at my neighbor's mesh cover all winter and it was clean except
for a couple of twigs laying on top. Then I looked at mine and there was
a foot of dirty, leafy water after the rain and melting snow had pushed
the cover deeper into the clean pool water.

When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.







s

"willshak" wrote in message
...

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that matter,
small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round chisel type
tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge hammer while
turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The face of this
chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a plus sign " +
". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a large
punch. I figured a star drill would work better.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

For a couple of holes, your method is workable. For 40 holes, bite
the bullet and rent a real rotary hammer. The cost is miniscule
comapared to the time, effort and frustration you save. My nearest
rental is 20 miles away and I have made the trip to do as few as 4
holes. Believe me, it is worth it.

Harry K

on 10/7/2007 10:40 AM RicodJour said the following:
On Oct 7, 10:14 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:




Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!


I don't think anybody assumed otherwise or the pointed responses would
have been more vociferous.
You'll be making a lot of work for yourself and wasting time for no
apparent reason. There are better exercises than kneeling over a hole
and hitting a chisel with a lump hammer.

I'm curious, Bill - what is the reason that you're ignoring entirely
unanimous advice from a group of people that probably wouldn't agree
on which way was up? Were you starting with the 3/4" bit or starting
with a smaller bit and working your way up in two or three steps?

R

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.
Someone likened my request to an analogy about using a screwdriver as a
chisel. I still don't get that one.
I suppose that we should all get rid of all hand tools since there is a
power tool available that will do the job faster and easier.
I've already bored 10 holes with the 1/2" drill and a 3/4" concrete bit,
with the help of the steel punch and small sledge hammer. I have 2 on
each corner and 2 on each side, and the cover is on using those 10
attachments. The leaves are falling on the cover and are being blown off
by the wind. I have plenty of time before the snow starts to finish the
other 20 holes.
That's my story. I suppose that this threat will continue pointing out
the advantages of using a hammer drill, or maybe it will drift off to
something about garden spiders. But I now have the information that I
need, thanks to the few that answered my question and provided links, so
I'll let the others continue without me.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Will,

This is confusing. I thought you said that you had done a Google search.
If you aren't capable of doing that I think you'll find using a star drill
very challenging.
When I was a kid I tried this in granite. A day's work yielded a hole
about 2" deep. Concrete may be softer but you want to do 40 (?) holes. I bet
your wife is going to laugh a lot and have a great anecdote.

Dave M.

On Oct 7, 8:53 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/7/2007 10:40 AM RicodJour said the following:



On Oct 7, 10:14 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:

Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!

I don't think anybody assumed otherwise or the pointed responses would
have been more vociferous.
You'll be making a lot of work for yourself and wasting time for no
apparent reason. There are better exercises than kneeling over a hole
and hitting a chisel with a lump hammer.

I'm curious, Bill - what is the reason that you're ignoring entirely
unanimous advice from a group of people that probably wouldn't agree
on which way was up? Were you starting with the 3/4" bit or starting
with a smaller bit and working your way up in two or three steps?

R

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.
Someone likened my request to an analogy about using a screwdriver as a
chisel. I still don't get that one.
I suppose that we should all get rid of all hand tools since there is a
power tool available that will do the job faster and easier.
I've already bored 10 holes with the 1/2" drill and a 3/4" concrete bit,
with the help of the steel punch and small sledge hammer. I have 2 on
each corner and 2 on each side, and the cover is on using those 10
attachments. The leaves are falling on the cover and are being blown off
by the wind. I have plenty of time before the snow starts to finish the
other 20 holes.
That's my story. I suppose that this threat will continue pointing out
the advantages of using a hammer drill, or maybe it will drift off to
something about garden spiders. But I now have the information that I
need, thanks to the few that answered my question and provided links, so
I'll let the others continue without me.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Bill-

People who answered your question with alternatives were trying to
give you the benefit of their experience.

I have drilled 100's of holes in concrete over the years. I'm even
old enough to have used a star drill (my dad made you use one when a
concrete / masonry bit in a regular electric drill wouldn't do the
job)

So I was one of the guys who had experience with:
electric drill
star drill
star drill used in conjunction with electric drill
battery powered rotary hammer
electric rotary hammer (Bosch, Hilti, Milwaukee)

based on this experience I know the method I would use

So after hundreds of holes with all sorts of tools / methods......I
see a question from a guy wanting to get a star drill to use in
conjunction with an electic drill to drill 40 holes x 3/4" diameter of
unspecified depth in concrete of specified thickness & reinforcement.

I think "wow'....he's headed for a lot work with that star drill. I
think I give him the benefit of my experience.

Sorry if you didn't like my answer or the similar ones supplied by
others.

Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain?

Renting one is not a gamble unless you cannot predict your local
weather for a few hours or the rental shop is hours away from the
drilling site.

How many holes left at this point? Is it 20 or 30? How much used
time to drill the holes already done? How long was the longest
continuous session dedicated to this job.?

A decent rotary hammer will drill a 3/4" hole x 2" deep in less than a
minute.

One probable result of this thread is that many regular posters have
learned now to "just answer your question", in the future.

btw looks like the chance of rain in the next few days is pretty
minimal, except for Tues.

also the link to the source for the item came from the "screwdriver
analogy" guy.

cheers
Bob

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:53:42 -0400, willshak
wrote:

But I now have the information that I
need, thanks to the few that answered my question and provided links, so
I'll let the others continue without me.

Some people don't get it. Never will...

You asked for help, and everyone gave you some. Instead you jumped on
us because you didn't like the answers. All the answers were good and
viable. If you knew what you were going to do anyway, why ask? After
all, Google only returns 1.4 million hits on the topic, and the first
ten or so will give all the needed information.

willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.



You mean like this one?
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/20800/icn/20-373357/enderes_tools/0786.htm

willshak wrote:


First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.

I share your disgust. What is the world coming to when people offer
polite, helpful and accurate suggestions to someone who appeared to have
chosen a bad path to follow?

You need to rent or purchase a good hammer drill.

Go a step further and get a rotohammer. I bought a good Makita the other
day for $25 at a yard sale. It has a SDS bit system, and has both the demo
hammer and rotohammer mode.

A hammer drill will get it done. A rotohammer will get it done in less than
half the time. They can be had at pawn shops, in the local Quick Quarter
rags, and at yard sales for prices that make it so that if you don't use it
much, you don't lose a lot of money.

The other day, we were ripping out caliche from where we want to put a
walkway. I needed a trench about three feet long and a foot deep and wide
for a French drain. I got out the Makita, and was done in a couple of
hours.

Get the rotohammer. You'll be glad you did.

Steve

Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:
Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long.
The face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4
points, like a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star
drill. A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training
regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.


WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!
And thanks to all the others who participated. You'll get a Board Game
version of our show on the way out of the studio.

And as an aside, I checked at Lowes last night, and in the tool
department, there was a Lowes guy. Maybe a little younger than me,
probably in his 60s. I asked him if he was the tool guy. He said
"Kinda, I just started in this department". I asked him if he knew
what a Star Drill was, he looked puzzled and said, "All our drill
bits are over here" pointed to a wall display. I said "it isn't a
drill per se, but more of a concrete chisel:. He then walked me to
the wall display with all the chisels.and said, "Here's all the
chisels. If it isn't in this area, we don't have it" and walked away.
They didn't have it.
If that's the plan then I believe that Home Depot has star drill's or
any decent sized hardware store should have one. If you have a stone
and tile dealer near by I'ld give them a call.
Of course renting or buying a hammer drill is another answer.
Good luck.
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

Ok, easy solution then. Go back to the kid in tool world and have him get a
Dasco
1/2" cold chisel item 142071. You are going to have to hit then turn more
then a real star drill but for less then $5 it will do.
Bob
--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for – NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

On Oct 7, 2:58 pm, George wrote:
willshak wrote:

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.

I share your disgust. What is the world coming to when people offer
polite, helpful and accurate suggestions to someone who appeared to have
chosen a bad path to follow?


I guess I can see both sides of this discussion. I know there have
been times when someone has asked a simple straightforward question
that does have a direct answer and instead got lots of uneeded advice
without answering the basic question. In this case, the answer was
that HD stocks them. I bought one there earlier this year. In my
case, I just had to enlarge an existing a hole a little bit to be able
to fit a 1/2 water pipe. It took about 2 mins.

On the other hand, I've used masonry drills, star bits, and hammer
drills. And the hammer drill will make holes so much faster and
easier that the posters suggesting that being the best solution were
only trying to share their experience and make the OP's job easier.
When the OP said that one issue with renting a hammer drill would be
what if he didn't get all the holes drilled in one day, I had to
wonder if he's ever used one. If a hammer drill can't do the holes
in a day, IMO, I can't imagine doing the job with a regular drill and
star bit with hammer.

willshak wrote:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like a
plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2" corded
electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone aggregate in the
concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the aggregate with a
large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.


You need some more practice in searching perhaps? "star drill steel"
turns up many usable hits.
http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/...ar-drills.aspx

But now that you know the old-school tool exists I'll have to say that
drilling that many 3/4" holes manually is something even the most
die-hard masochist would see as too painful. Buy or rent the proper sort
of impact drill and bit and you can be done in a morning's light effort.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

HEY! This is akin to someone coming here looking for a source for
blocks of ice for their ice box and being informed theres a new
product, a refrigerator that can do the same job easily and more
convenient.

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill? Dont
laugh occasionally I do wierd stuff I had last done as a child just
for the heck of it although I avoid the hard work ones these days

in any case his question has been asked and answered. Hopefully he
will remember to wear safety glasses. Star drills can be dangerous

On Oct 7, 8:22 pm, " wrote:
HEY! This is akin to someone coming here looking for a source for
blocks of ice for their ice box and being informed theres a new
product, a refrigerator that can do the same job easily and more
convenient.

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill? Dont
laugh occasionally I do wierd stuff I had last done as a child just
for the heck of it although I avoid the hard work ones these days

in any case his question has been asked and answered. Hopefully he
will remember to wear safety glasses. Star drills can be dangerous

And gloves and knee pads, because he is going to be on the ground at
least two days stubbornly whacking at something that many of us have
done in under an hour. Sheesh...

Joe

On Oct 7, 8:40 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Oct 7, 8:22 pm, " wrote:
HEY! This is akin to someone coming here looking for a source for
blocks of ice for their ice box and being informed theres a new
product, a refrigerator that can do the same job easily and more
convenient.

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill? Dont
laugh occasionally I do wierd stuff I had last done as a child just
for the heck of it although I avoid the hard work ones these days

in any case his question has been asked and answered. Hopefully he
will remember to wear safety glasses. Star drills can be dangerous

And gloves and knee pads, because he is going to be on the ground at
least two days stubbornly whacking at something that many of us have
done in under an hour. Sheesh...

Joe

In the two communities of Tonopah and Pioche, Nevada, they have annual
celebrations. One is for founders day, the other for Labor Day. It's just
really an excuse to drink for three days and eat a lot of spicy food, but
they have Glorious Titles on them nonetheless.

One of the competitions is mucking. That's seeing who can load the most
gravel and rock into a container in five minutes. It comes from the old
days when muckers used to go in after a shot and clean up the debris created
by the shot. And they worked twelve hour shifts.

Another competition is called single jacking. One man has a hefty sledge
hammer, and the other has a star drill with a shaft of about one inch, and a
star bigger than that. Remember that this was to put in sticks of dynamite,
so the hole wasn't small.

One man would hold the drill. The other would strike it with the sledge.
Then the drill holder would rotate the drill, and the hammer man would
strike it again. They had a set time limit.

In the old days, poor boy operators did all their blasting with single
jacking. Many times with just one man. Lots of mines were one man
operations. Drilling came in later, and was the cause of silicosis which
limited a man to three months of working in the mines, and at that time, he
was coughing so much he was worthless. Then the advent of hydraulic
drilling where they simply put a stream of water through the center of the
bit, and the dust was eliminated. Dust from other sources in the mine still
caused silicosis and miners didn't have a long life span as a group.

Single jacking was an orchestrated ballet. A good team could perform well,
but it was a tenuous thing. One miss with the hammer, and the drill holder
was off work for a few weeks or months. Swinging a heavy hammer at a steady
rate at sometimes overhead angles was something a lot of men simply couldn't
do more than five minutes.

The competitions I witnessed in Pioche and Tonopah were on a flat level
surface. In the real mines, they were in every imaginable angle.

It's always fun to watch other people work their butts off, and holler HURRY
UP while you're drinking a beer.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Minor correction. Your description is 'double jacking' - two man.
'Single jacking' is one man who both holds the drill and wields the
hand sledge.


Harry K

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 7, 8:22 pm, " wrote:
HEY! This is akin to someone coming here looking for a source for
blocks of ice for their ice box and being informed theres a new
product, a refrigerator that can do the same job easily and more
convenient.

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill? Dont
laugh occasionally I do wierd stuff I had last done as a child just
for the heck of it although I avoid the hard work ones these days

in any case his question has been asked and answered. Hopefully he
will remember to wear safety glasses. Star drills can be dangerous

And gloves and knee pads, because he is going to be on the ground at
least two days stubbornly whacking at something that many of us have
done in under an hour. Sheesh...

Joe


In the two communities of Tonopah and Pioche, Nevada, they have annual
celebrations. One is for founders day, the other for Labor Day. It's just
really an excuse to drink for three days and eat a lot of spicy food, but
they have Glorious Titles on them nonetheless.

One of the competitions is mucking. That's seeing who can load the most
gravel and rock into a container in five minutes. It comes from the old
days when muckers used to go in after a shot and clean up the debris created
by the shot. And they worked twelve hour shifts.

Another competition is called single jacking. One man has a hefty sledge
hammer, and the other has a star drill with a shaft of about one inch, and a
star bigger than that. Remember that this was to put in sticks of dynamite,
so the hole wasn't small.

One man would hold the drill. The other would strike it with the sledge.
Then the drill holder would rotate the drill, and the hammer man would
strike it again. They had a set time limit.

In the old days, poor boy operators did all their blasting with single
jacking. Many times with just one man. Lots of mines were one man
operations. Drilling came in later, and was the cause of silicosis which
limited a man to three months of working in the mines, and at that time, he
was coughing so much he was worthless. Then the advent of hydraulic
drilling where they simply put a stream of water through the center of the
bit, and the dust was eliminated. Dust from other sources in the mine still
caused silicosis and miners didn't have a long life span as a group.

Single jacking was an orchestrated ballet. A good team could perform well,
but it was a tenuous thing. One miss with the hammer, and the drill holder
was off work for a few weeks or months. Swinging a heavy hammer at a steady
rate at sometimes overhead angles was something a lot of men simply couldn't
do more than five minutes.

The competitions I witnessed in Pioche and Tonopah were on a flat level
surface. In the real mines, they were in every imaginable angle.

It's always fun to watch other people work their butts off, and holler HURRY
UP while you're drinking a beer.

Steve

The hammer drill (or better yet, rotary hammer) is one of the more
indispensable tools - there's nothing that works even remotely as
well.


Eggsactly ! and you can rent one from HD (Bosch Hammer drill or rotary
hammer) for the 4 hr minimum for about 25 bucks and get the job done in less
than an hour..or "tinker" around with ancient technology and spend all day
at it.

"Harry K" wrote
Minor correction. Your description is 'double jacking' - two man.
'Single jacking' is one man who both holds the drill and wields the
hand sledge.


Harry K


I never claimed to be perfect.

Or ever wanted to be.

Steve

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:22:00 -0700, "
wrote:



Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill?

Reliving one's youth is one thing, 40 holes is another! bg Even in
my youth I'd not have wanted to drill 40 holes by hand...