"PeterD" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:22:00 -0700, "
wrote:



Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill?

Reliving one's youth is one thing, 40 holes is another! bg Even in
my youth I'd not have wanted to drill 40 holes by hand...

I was a Teamster for 37 years. We had a saying that if you give a lazy man
a job to do, he'll find the quickest easiest way to do it. I think even a
Teamster would go rent a rotohammer.

Steve ;-)

on 10/6/2007 5:24 PM willshak said the following:
X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one on-line?
I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my 1/2"
corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work better.


I finished the last of the holes today (12). Actually, there were only
30 rather than 40. It was good that I overestimated because I finished
sooner.
I have to thank two addition people.
One that suggested using a pilot drill. I did have a 3/8" concrete bit,
and used that before the 3/4" drill and it was better. Thanks.
One that suggested a 3/4" cold chisel to break up the aggregate. That
worked better after I had the 3/8; pilot hole drilled to 2" deep. Thanks
One additional thing that I didn't notice. While I was taking a break, I
picked up the plastic tag that had been attached to the 3/4 concrete
drill when I bought it. Looking on the back of the tag in molded, small
letters, was the following:
Recommended minimum speed 1100 RPM.
The 1/2" power drill I had been using was only rated at 600 RPM.. I
brought out my 3/8" power drill rated at 1200 RPM.
I didn't notice much difference with the 3/4" concrete bit, but it
seemed to work better with the 3/8" bit.
If it hadn't been in the 80s, with a humidity of 75 % for the past 4
days, I would have finished in half the time. As it was, I had to stop
occasionally for a hose down and a brew and cigarette..
I did not buy or rent a Hammer drill. I didn't even use the star drill I
asked about ($$$ saved all around).

For anyone interested, I am 70 years old, so I've been around a while.
I have been retired since 1999.
I am 6' 2" tall. I weigh 185 lbs.
I have a 35' waist.
I have 41" hips.
I wear a 42" long jacket.
I wear a 16" long shirt.
All the above is in case someone wants to buy me some clothes.
My body fat index is 19.9%. A little high, but I think it is the beer.
My right arm is now bigger than my left arm from all this hammering, but
that because I have torn ligaments in my left shoulder from manhandling
a tractor, and I don't use it for heavy or precise work.
I am not afraid of hard work. I have done a lot of projects alone that
would have taken a couple of younger guys to accomplish.
If you've ever seen an old Italian mason working, you'll notice that he
may be slow, but he is persistent. While the younger guys have to stop
and pick their nose, the old guy keeps on working, and at the end of the
day, he's done more than the youngsters.

Look at all the $$$ I've saved.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 8, 12:05 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"PeterD" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:22:00 -0700, "
wrote:

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill?

Reliving one's youth is one thing, 40 holes is another! bg Even in
my youth I'd not have wanted to drill 40 holes by hand...

I was a Teamster for 37 years. We had a saying that if you give a lazy man
a job to do, he'll find the quickest easiest way to do it. I think even a
Teamster would go rent a rotohammer.

Steve ;-)

Even a dumb one would wise up after a few holes. Me, I heat with
wood, have a hydraulic splitter but do all my splitting with wedge/
sledge/maul except for the knots/crotches. One the face of it it
looks stupid but I am retired and it is the only real excercise I
get. Going through 6 cord every year keeps me from blowing up like a
balloon.

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 8, 12:05 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"PeterD" wrote in message

...

On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:22:00 -0700, "
wrote:

Perhaps he wants to re live his youth working with a star drill?

Reliving one's youth is one thing, 40 holes is another! bg Even in
my youth I'd not have wanted to drill 40 holes by hand...

I was a Teamster for 37 years. We had a saying that if you give a lazy
man
a job to do, he'll find the quickest easiest way to do it. I think even
a
Teamster would go rent a rotohammer.

Steve ;-)

Even a dumb one would wise up after a few holes. Me, I heat with
wood, have a hydraulic splitter but do all my splitting with wedge/
sledge/maul except for the knots/crotches. One the face of it it
looks stupid but I am retired and it is the only real excercise I
get. Going through 6 cord every year keeps me from blowing up like a
balloon.

Harry K


I'm blessed with good genes, I guess. I'm 59, 5-10, 180#, and can outdo
younger men. But after an 8 1/2 hour heart surgery, I choose to use power a
lot. I'm still pretty strong, but nothing like when I was younger. I still
do a lot, but the pain of having your sternum sawed in half never goes away
totally, and I live in constant pain. But it's like working out where it's
cold and wet and dirty. Most of the time I would just tell the young
whiners, "What makes you think I'm not cold, wet, dirty, hungry, and have
water running down the crack of MY ass, too? Now quit your whining, shut
the **** up and go to work like the rest of us."

Hope I don't have my sister's genes. She's 63 and had a heart transplant in
June. Got the heart of a 25 year old man. Says she feels better than she
has in years. I'll bet. For the last year, she's been lugging around a
left ventricular assist machine.

Look that up in your Google.

Steve

On Oct 7, 11:53 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/7/2007 10:40 AM RicodJour said the following:

On Oct 7, 10:14 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/7/2007 8:56 AM The Other Funk said the following:

Finding the keyboard operational
willshak entered:

X-posted to other relevant group.

Before there were concrete drill bits, or electric drills for that
matter, small round holes in concrete or rock were made by a round
chisel type tool that was pounded into the stone with a small sledge
hammer while turning the tool. It might have been 8" or 10" long. The
face of this chisel had a star-like pattern, only with 4 points, like
a plus sign " + ". I believe it was called a star drill.
A Google search brings up a lot of sports drills (training regimen).
Anyone know if they still make them, or if so, where to get one
on-line? I'm trying to drill some 40 - 3/4" holes in concrete and my
1/2" corded electric drill with a concrete bit stalls on the stone
aggregate in the concrete requiring me to stop and try to crack the
aggregate with a large punch. I figured a star drill would work
better.

After reading some of the responses I think there may be a
misunderstanding. Are you saying that you want to use your 1/2"
electric until you hit a piece of aggregate and then use the star
drill and sledge to break that up? Then returning to the drill.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!

I don't think anybody assumed otherwise or the pointed responses would
have been more vociferous.
You'll be making a lot of work for yourself and wasting time for no
apparent reason. There are better exercises than kneeling over a hole
and hitting a chisel with a lump hammer.

I'm curious, Bill - what is the reason that you're ignoring entirely
unanimous advice from a group of people that probably wouldn't agree
on which way was up? Were you starting with the 3/4" bit or starting
with a smaller bit and working your way up in two or three steps?

R

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.
Someone likened my request to an analogy about using a screwdriver as a
chisel. I still don't get that one.
I suppose that we should all get rid of all hand tools since there is a
power tool available that will do the job faster and easier.
I've already bored 10 holes with the 1/2" drill and a 3/4" concrete bit,
with the help of the steel punch and small sledge hammer. I have 2 on
each corner and 2 on each side, and the cover is on using those 10
attachments. The leaves are falling on the cover and are being blown off
by the wind. I have plenty of time before the snow starts to finish the
other 20 holes.
That's my story. I suppose that this threat will continue pointing out
the advantages of using a hammer drill, or maybe it will drift off to
something about garden spiders. But I now have the information that I
need, thanks to the few that answered my question and provided links, so
I'll let the others continue without me.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...7.1259502&sr=1

good luck

On Oct 6, 11:28 pm, willshak wrote:
When I first start the drill, I can see the crushed concrete powder
coming out and forming a ridge around the hole. All of a sudden the
powder stops building and I can hear the drill bit kinda bouncing over
something. The bit never stops turning, it just stops cutting.
I wash out the hole and look in. The aggregate filler in this concrete
is small roundish pebbles, about the size of a green pea up to a lima
bean size with colors of yellow, orange, grey, or whitish. I may see
parts of one, or two, or maybe three pebbles intruding in the hole, the
tops of which look sanded from the drill rather than cut. At this time I
take the small sledge and a 12" long steel tapered flat nosed punch with
a 1/4" wide tip and try to crack the pebbles into smaller pieces that
the drill bit can handle. I think that the 3/4" hand tool star drill can
do a better job of cracking the pebbles with fewer blows since the star
drill will completely fill the hole and may crack two or more pebbles
with one blow.

Bill,

I know "rent a hammer drill" is not the answer you're looking for.

Still, it is the best advice for your situation. With a hammer drill,
you will NEVER have to stop to bust up the aggregate. A hammer drill
will bust right through on its own.

The amount of time and money you spend running around looking for a
star bit will more than offset a 4-hour rental on a hammer drill.

Drill 20 holes with your regular drill, using the star bit every time
you run into a pebble. Then drill the other 20 with a hammer drill.
You'll wonder why you even bothered with the star bit.

As an aside, and in the vein of this thread ..........

I have used star drills when I hit a hard piece of aggregate when drilling
with a hammer drill. It fractures the piece of aggregate and gets the drill
penetrating again.

One of the best was a 3/16" rod that came as a tensioner for a wrought iron
gate. I believe it was cold rolled, or whatever makes it not bend. I would
grind the end to a screwdriver point, and just put that in the hole and hit
it with a hammer a few times, turning it as one would do with a star drill.
Actually, the handmade tool was better than the factory job.

Steve

on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:
Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...7.1259502&sr=1

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/10/2007 1:40 PM said the following:
Bill,

I know "rent a hammer drill" is not the answer you're looking for.

Still, it is the best advice for your situation. With a hammer drill,
you will NEVER have to stop to bust up the aggregate. A hammer drill
will bust right through on its own.

The amount of time and money you spend running around looking for a
star bit will more than offset a 4-hour rental on a hammer drill.

Drill 20 holes with your regular drill, using the star bit every time
you run into a pebble. Then drill the other 20 with a hammer drill.
You'll wonder why you even bothered with the star bit.


Thanks. The job was finished with the tools at hand.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 11, 8:35 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:

Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...1292223&cp=256...

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

Not quite. You also spent a lot of other people's energy who were
being helpful.

I'm glad that you got the job done, that there were only half as many
holes as you thought, that you learned to step up drill bit sizes as
you drill larger holes in tougher material if you don't have the right
tool, etc. I still don't understand the selective thanks bit.
Everyone was trying to be helpful - scratch that - everyone _was_
helpful, you just didn't like what you were reading. Advice is funny
like that.

Next time you run across a thread where the OP flat out refuses to
listen to advice you know is right, and argues about it, think - that
could be me.

R

on 10/11/2007 9:15 AM RicodJour said the following:
On Oct 11, 8:35 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:


Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...1292223&cp=256...

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.


Not quite. You also spent a lot of other people's energy who were
being helpful.

I'm glad that you got the job done, that there were only half as many
holes as you thought, that you learned to step up drill bit sizes as
you drill larger holes in tougher material if you don't have the right
tool, etc. I still don't understand the selective thanks bit.
Everyone was trying to be helpful - scratch that - everyone _was_
helpful, you just didn't like what you were reading. Advice is funny
like that.

Next time you run across a thread where the OP flat out refuses to
listen to advice you know is right, and argues about it, think - that
could be me.

R



If someone asks for advice, and I have advice to offer, I will offer it,
unless someone else has already offered the same advice.
If someone is asking where to buy a certain item, and I know where, I
will offer locations, unless others have already given the same locations.
No sense having a bunch of people repeating the same thing. Especially
when it is not the answer to the question asked.
A lot of the fault lies with me. I should have sent the message after
just asking where to get the tool, rather than continuing on with the
purpose of the tool.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/11/2007 11:10 AM SteveB said the following:
Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the tools
I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY


Hey, no problem. Any time you need advice, just come to the helpful folks
here, then ignore what we say. Hope you really get your ass in a bind next
time and ask for advice.

Steve

Wasn't it you that asked a question last month about tool handles?
I count 28 responses to that question, but you only replied to 1 of
them, and that was a snide remark about new handles on an antique ax.
BTW, how did that handle repair work out for you?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 11, 7:23 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/11/2007 9:15 AM RicodJour said the following:





On Oct 11, 8:35 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:

Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...1292223&cp=256...

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

Not quite. You also spent a lot of other people's energy who were
being helpful.

I'm glad that you got the job done, that there were only half as many
holes as you thought, that you learned to step up drill bit sizes as
you drill larger holes in tougher material if you don't have the right
tool, etc. I still don't understand the selective thanks bit.
Everyone was trying to be helpful - scratch that - everyone _was_
helpful, you just didn't like what you were reading. Advice is funny
like that.

Next time you run across a thread where the OP flat out refuses to
listen to advice you know is right, and argues about it, think - that
could be me.

R

If someone asks for advice, and I have advice to offer, I will offer it,
unless someone else has already offered the same advice.
If someone is asking where to buy a certain item, and I know where, I
will offer locations, unless others have already given the same locations.
No sense having a bunch of people repeating the same thing. Especially
when it is not the answer to the question asked.
A lot of the fault lies with me. I should have sent the message after
just asking where to get the tool, rather than continuing on with the
purpose of the tool.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, a lot of it is your fault. The main one is your rudeness. To
ask a question, get what you want and then bitch about other advice
that is offered is...well...

Harry K

on 10/11/2007 10:23 AM willshak said the following:
on 10/11/2007 9:15 AM RicodJour said the following:
On Oct 11, 8:35 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:


Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...1292223&cp=256...

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.


Not quite. You also spent a lot of other people's energy who were
being helpful.

I'm glad that you got the job done, that there were only half as many
holes as you thought, that you learned to step up drill bit sizes as
you drill larger holes in tougher material if you don't have the right
tool, etc. I still don't understand the selective thanks bit.
Everyone was trying to be helpful - scratch that - everyone _was_
helpful, you just didn't like what you were reading. Advice is funny
like that.

Next time you run across a thread where the OP flat out refuses to
listen to advice you know is right, and argues about it, think - that
could be me.

R



If someone asks for advice, and I have advice to offer, I will offer
it, unless someone else has already offered the same advice.
If someone is asking where to buy a certain item, and I know where, I
will offer locations, unless others have already given the same
locations.
No sense having a bunch of people repeating the same thing. Especially
when it is not the answer to the question asked.
A lot of the fault lies with me. I should have sent the message after
just asking where to get the tool, rather than continuing on with the
purpose of the tool.


BTW, please point out the message(s) where I argued with anyone.
I simply ignored the messages that didn't answer my question.
Any responses I made were in direct response to a question asked, or an
answer to my original question.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the tools
I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

Hey, no problem. Any time you need advice, just come to the helpful folks
here, then ignore what we say. Hope you really get your ass in a bind next
time and ask for advice.

Steve

on 10/11/2007 10:59 AM Harry K said the following:
On Oct 11, 7:23 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/11/2007 9:15 AM RicodJour said the following:






On Oct 11, 8:35 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/10/2007 1:08 PM said the following:

Don't know if you found it yet but you can get them from ACE or other
hardware stores. There listed under chisels as a star drill. I got a
few at home but havent tried them out yet. I didn't see where anyone
answered you yet and couldn't tell if you got an answer.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...1292223&cp=256...

good luck

Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

Not quite. You also spent a lot of other people's energy who were
being helpful.

I'm glad that you got the job done, that there were only half as many
holes as you thought, that you learned to step up drill bit sizes as
you drill larger holes in tougher material if you don't have the right
tool, etc. I still don't understand the selective thanks bit.
Everyone was trying to be helpful - scratch that - everyone _was_
helpful, you just didn't like what you were reading. Advice is funny
like that.

Next time you run across a thread where the OP flat out refuses to
listen to advice you know is right, and argues about it, think - that
could be me.

R

If someone asks for advice, and I have advice to offer, I will offer it,
unless someone else has already offered the same advice.
If someone is asking where to buy a certain item, and I know where, I
will offer locations, unless others have already given the same locations.
No sense having a bunch of people repeating the same thing. Especially
when it is not the answer to the question asked.
A lot of the fault lies with me. I should have sent the message after
just asking where to get the tool, rather than continuing on with the
purpose of the tool.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Yes, a lot of it is your fault. The main one is your rudeness. To
ask a question, get what you want and then bitch about other advice
that is offered is...well...

Harry K



I wasn't rude to anyone who suggested alternatives. I just didn't answer
at all. If that's rude, I'm apparently not the only one.
Someone asked why I didn't want to use another suggested tool and I
answered the question.
Maybe that's bitching, but I call it a direct response to the 'why not'
question asked.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Finding the keyboard operational
SteveB entered:
wilshak entered
Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

Hey, no problem. Any time you need advice, just come to the helpful
folks here, then ignore what we say. Hope you really get your ass in
a bind next time and ask for advice.

Steve

There seems to be quite the tempest in a teacup brewing here. As I see it,
Bill asked where he might find a star drill and then explained why he wanted
it. Some people told him that he was going about making the holes the wrong
way and that he should get other equipment. Bill did state, more then once,
that he had no intention of getting other tools and wanted to do it his way.
He didn't say why he wanted to do it his way but it's his choice. Instead he
was told that he was wasting his time and it was implied that he was stupid.
Let me put it another way. I like to do a bit of woodworking. I get a piece
fo tree trunk and split and cut it into boards. Now I could buy boards but I
choose not to. I also prefer to use hand tools more then most people would.
So if I asked where I could find a new blade for my frame saw and got
replies telling me to buy a band saw, I would be rude if I ignored that
advice?
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

on 10/11/2007 3:03 PM SteveB said the following:
"The Other Funk" wrote in message
news:YJsPi.5409$q42.2217@trndny06...

Finding the keyboard operational
SteveB entered:

wilshak entered
Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

Hey, no problem. Any time you need advice, just come to the helpful
folks here, then ignore what we say. Hope you really get your ass in
a bind next time and ask for advice.

Steve

There seems to be quite the tempest in a teacup brewing here. As I see it,
Bill asked where he might find a star drill and then explained why he
wanted it. Some people told him that he was going about making the holes
the wrong way and that he should get other equipment. Bill did state, more
then once, that he had no intention of getting other tools and wanted to
do it his way. He didn't say why he wanted to do it his way but it's his
choice. Instead he was told that he was wasting his time and it was
implied that he was stupid.
Let me put it another way. I like to do a bit of woodworking. I get a
piece fo tree trunk and split and cut it into boards. Now I could buy
boards but I choose not to. I also prefer to use hand tools more then most
people would. So if I asked where I could find a new blade for my frame
saw and got replies telling me to buy a band saw, I would be rude if I
ignored that advice?
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com



The man who wrote in was obviously clueless, as he didn't even know about a
star drill.


I knew about a star drill. I referred to it as a star drill when I was
asking where to get one.
..
Instead of people telling him how to drill 40 holes with a star
drill, they suggested that he do it the modern easy fast way.


Which didn't answer my question.
Then to prove his cluelessness, he proceeded to insult those who offered him
advice trying to save him time and work.

Steve

Show me where I insulted anyone.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/11/2007 3:07 PM SteveB said the following:
"willshak" wrote


Wasn't it you that asked a question last month about tool handles?
I count 28 responses to that question, but you only replied to 1 of them,
and that was a snide remark about new handles on an antique ax.
BTW, how did that handle repair work out for you?

--

Bill


Yes, that was me. The reason I didn't reply was that I was READING the
advice people had to give, taking it in, and putting some of it into
practice.

Yeah, that is what I was doing too. Reading, taking in, but not
answering. :-)

That required no response from me, but only to be respectful
enough to shut up and read.. That is equal to stopping talking and
LISTENING when having a conversation after you've asked someone for advice.


I did shut up. I didn't interrupt anyone telling me to use a hammer drill.
The remark about the axe handle was not snide, but a little humor that went
SWOOSH right over your head! (the sound of a joke going over an empty air
space)

I wish you well, Pard. You may go now.

Plonk.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"The Other Funk" wrote in message
news:YJsPi.5409$q42.2217@trndny06...
Finding the keyboard operational
SteveB entered:
wilshak entered
Thanks. The job is finished. Thanks to some others, I used only the
tools I had at home. Nothing spent but my energy.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

Hey, no problem. Any time you need advice, just come to the helpful
folks here, then ignore what we say. Hope you really get your ass in
a bind next time and ask for advice.

Steve

There seems to be quite the tempest in a teacup brewing here. As I see it,
Bill asked where he might find a star drill and then explained why he
wanted it. Some people told him that he was going about making the holes
the wrong way and that he should get other equipment. Bill did state, more
then once, that he had no intention of getting other tools and wanted to
do it his way. He didn't say why he wanted to do it his way but it's his
choice. Instead he was told that he was wasting his time and it was
implied that he was stupid.
Let me put it another way. I like to do a bit of woodworking. I get a
piece fo tree trunk and split and cut it into boards. Now I could buy
boards but I choose not to. I also prefer to use hand tools more then most
people would. So if I asked where I could find a new blade for my frame
saw and got replies telling me to buy a band saw, I would be rude if I
ignored that advice?
Bob

--�
--�
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com


The man who wrote in was obviously clueless, as he didn't even know about a
star drill. Instead of people telling him how to drill 40 holes with a star
drill, they suggested that he do it the modern easy fast way.

Then to prove his cluelessness, he proceeded to insult those who offered him
advice trying to save him time and work.

Steve

"willshak" wrote


Wasn't it you that asked a question last month about tool handles?
I count 28 responses to that question, but you only replied to 1 of them,
and that was a snide remark about new handles on an antique ax.
BTW, how did that handle repair work out for you?

--

Bill

Yes, that was me. The reason I didn't reply was that I was READING the
advice people had to give, taking it in, and putting some of it into
practice. That required no response from me, but only to be respectful
enough to shut up and read.. That is equal to stopping talking and
LISTENING when having a conversation after you've asked someone for advice.

The remark about the axe handle was not snide, but a little humor that went
SWOOSH right over your head! (the sound of a joke going over an empty air
space)

I wish you well, Pard. You may go now.

Plonk.

Steve

on 10/11/2007 4:25 PM Glenn said the following:
I just deleted the entire thread and suggest others do to.

Yes, the problem was solved and there is no need to continue, unless
someone wants to add something to it.




"willshak" wrote in message
...
on 10/10/2007 1:40 PM said the following:
Bill,

I know "rent a hammer drill" is not the answer you're looking for.

Still, it is the best advice for your situation. With a hammer drill,
you will NEVER have to stop to bust up the aggregate. A hammer drill
will bust right through on its own.

The amount of time and money you spend running around looking for a
star bit will more than offset a 4-hour rental on a hammer drill.

Drill 20 holes with your regular drill, using the star bit every time
you run into a pebble. Then drill the other 20 with a hammer drill.
You'll wonder why you even bothered with the star bit.


Thanks. The job was finished with the tools at hand.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:35:46 -0400, willshak
wrote:



Show me where I insulted anyone.

Try:

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.

You don't get it. You never will get it. When people try to help you
you say "Thank you!" No one will force you to take their advice, but
you say "Thank you!" to be nice. That is the price you have to pay to
get free advice. Now, when you next ask for advice on usenet, and
don't get any responses, think back to this thread and then don't even
think about asking why...

PLONK again

on 10/11/2007 6:18 PM SteveB said the following:
"Glenn" wrote in message
...

I just deleted the entire thread and suggest others do to.



Also killfiled the troll that started it.

Steve



Ah, you won't read this unless someone else responds to it, but I think
you have gone over the edge.
Troll, for asking a legitimate question?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:

Didn't you kill file me, or does your Plonk machine not work?
There are no insults in there. Did I call anyone stupid, or ignorant,
like some called me for daring to use an old technology instead of the
latest, greatest, state of the art technology?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Glenn" wrote in message
...
I just deleted the entire thread and suggest others do to.


Also killfiled the troll that started it.

Steve

on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:35:46 -0400, willshak
wrote:


Show me where I insulted anyone.


Try:


First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.


You don't get it. You never will get it.

No! YOU don't get it. I didn't ask for advice. I asked a simple and
direct question about where to buy a tool. What I got, for the most
part, were alternatives to the tool I was asking about. So, it's an old
tool, and alternatives are available, which I know about. I don't live
in a bubble. I wanted to use the old tool.


When people try to help you
you say "Thank you!" No one will force you to take their advice, but
you say "Thank you!" to be nice. That is the price you have to pay to
get free advice.


Thank you, to all that responded.
Now, when you next ask for advice on usenet, and
don't get any responses, think back to this thread and then don't even
think about asking why...

PLONK again


I'll try to re-phrase my questions better, since this was one of my few,
if any, original questions, rather than the many responses to others I
had posted.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 11, 5:58 pm, willshak wrote:
on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:

Didn't you kill file me, or does your Plonk machine not work?
There are no insults in there. Did I call anyone stupid, or ignorant,
like some called me for daring to use an old technology instead of the
latest, greatest, state of the art technology?

Bill, it's time to let this one go. Unless you feel like you're
'winning' when you have the last post in the thread, having the last
word doesn't mean squat.

The thing that threw me from the get go was your statement that you
had Googled and hadn't found anything. Say what?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=star+drill So unless you can't
spell either star or drill - and Google would correct it for you if
you couldn't - then something is mighty odd on your end of the
internet. You wrote, "A Google search brings up a lot of sports
drills (training regimen)." Well, yeah, that and every other result
on the Google results page was for the hand held masonry/stone drill.
So for whatever reason you couldn't find it, _you_ couldn't find
something that was beyond obvious. You had the correct name, and from
your excellent spelling, I know you spelled it right, so what
happened?

If you had performed the search and not skipped every other result,
you wouldn't have needed to ask the question and you wouldn't have
gotten all of that horrible advice where people were trying to save
you some time and wear and tear on your body. If you like the wear
and tear on your body, that's just fine, you'll still get advice on
how to do _anything_ a simpler, less taxing way. That's called
efficiency and the human race has been pursuing that as a goal for the
last few million years. Don't blame this newsgroup.

Since you're working on a new pool cover, a few bucks either way
obviously wouldn't have killed you. The bottom line is that you do a
fine job answering questions on this newsgroup. I've never seen you
give bad advice. You've given advice I might not agree with, but
you've never given bad advice. However your thread originating post,
and the subsequent follow ups were not of the same caliber. Instead
of asking a simple question, "Anyone know where I can get a star
bit?" you gave some history, mentioned you had no luck Googling,
explained exactly what you were doing which didn't work - which
everyone else has done at some point until _they_ learned a better
way, etc.

Anyhoo, you got the job done, you didn't have to spend money, you took
a few lumps and you've learned that it's sometimes harder to ask a
question than answer one. I think you've gotten a lot out of this
thread and hopefully you won't take away any hard feelings.

R

on 10/11/2007 6:29 PM RicodJour said the following:
On Oct 11, 5:58 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:

Didn't you kill file me, or does your Plonk machine not work?
There are no insults in there. Did I call anyone stupid, or ignorant,
like some called me for daring to use an old technology instead of the
latest, greatest, state of the art technology?


Bill, it's time to let this one go. Unless you feel like you're
'winning' when you have the last post in the thread, having the last
word doesn't mean squat.

The thing that threw me from the get go was your statement that you
had Googled and hadn't found anything. Say what?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=star+drill So unless you can't
spell either star or drill - and Google would correct it for you if
you couldn't - then something is mighty odd on your end of the
internet. You wrote, "A Google search brings up a lot of sports
drills (training regimen)." Well, yeah, that and every other result
on the Google results page was for the hand held masonry/stone drill.
So for whatever reason you couldn't find it, _you_ couldn't find
something that was beyond obvious. You had the correct name, and from
your excellent spelling, I know you spelled it right, so what
happened?


Don't know. I'm usually good at Googling. I Google a lot for other
people asking questions, in this and other groups, because I have this
obsession about helping people. It's probably why I became a police
officer and stayed for 38 years.
I'll give the answer I find, and the link, without insulting the person
asking the question.

If you had performed the search and not skipped every other result,
you wouldn't have needed to ask the question and you wouldn't have
gotten all of that horrible advice where people were trying to save
you some time and wear and tear on your body. If you like the wear
and tear on your body, that's just fine, you'll still get advice on
how to do _anything_ a simpler, less taxing way. That's called
efficiency and the human race has been pursuing that as a goal for the
last few million years. Don't blame this newsgroup.


I didn't blame anyone. I just asked a simple question. If someone else
had asked the same question, I would have answered the question first
and then offered alternatives, if I knew of any.
Since you're working on a new pool cover, a few bucks either way
obviously wouldn't have killed you. The bottom line is that you do a
fine job answering questions on this newsgroup. I've never seen you
give bad advice. You've given advice I might not agree with, but
you've never given bad advice. However your thread originating post,
and the subsequent follow ups were not of the same caliber. Instead
of asking a simple question, "Anyone know where I can get a star
bit?" you gave some history, mentioned you had no luck Googling,
explained exactly what you were doing which didn't work - which
everyone else has done at some point until _they_ learned a better
way, etc.

Anyhoo, you got the job done, you didn't have to spend money, you took
a few lumps and you've learned that it's sometimes harder to ask a
question than answer one. I think you've gotten a lot out of this
thread and hopefully you won't take away any hard feelings.

No. I have been called a 'turtle', since insults usually don't get
beyond the shell. Like I said, I was a cop for 38 years and learned how
to ignore them, otherwise there would have been a lot of dead people in
my path.

Thanks for being so understanding, and if you feel you were insulted by
any remarks I said, I'm sorry. It was business, not personal. :-)
I'm sorry to anyone else who felt that any comments I made may have
insulted or demeaned them.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 11, 3:22 pm, willshak wrote:
on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:





On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:35:46 -0400, willshak
wrote:

Show me where I insulted anyone.

Try:

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.

You don't get it. You never will get it.

No! YOU don't get it. I didn't ask for advice. I asked a simple and
direct question about where to buy a tool. What I got, for the most
part, were alternatives to the tool I was asking about. So, it's an old
tool, and alternatives are available, which I know about. I don't live
in a bubble. I wanted to use the old tool.

When people try to help you
you say "Thank you!" No one will force you to take their advice, but
you say "Thank you!" to be nice. That is the price you have to pay to
get free advice.

Thank you, to all that responded.

Now, when you next ask for advice on usenet, and
don't get any responses, think back to this thread and then don't even
think about asking why...

PLONK again

I'll try to re-phrase my questions better, since this was one of my few,
if any, original questions, rather than the many responses to others I
had posted.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just to clarify the point that seems to have gone clear over your
head. What put the burr under our saddles was your rant about
unsolicited advice. Had you ended your post with the 'the job is done
using a star drill' - no problem. But then to gratuitously complain
about all the unwanted advice was over the top.

Harry K

on 10/11/2007 9:22 PM Harry K said the following:
On Oct 11, 3:22 pm, willshak wrote:

on 10/11/2007 5:45 PM PeterD said the following:






On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 14:35:46 -0400, willshak
wrote:

Show me where I insulted anyone.

Try:

First, let me say that I didn't ask for alternatives, I asked a direct
question about where I could get a specific product.
Although the alternate power tool suggestions were fine, with few
helpful answers, the alternatives seem to have dominated the responses.
I know about hammer drills and their uses, and I know where to buy or
rent one. Buying a hammer drill for this one purpose is out of the
question. I may not never again drill holes in concrete, and maybe I can
just throw the star drill in a drawer with my other chisels and punches
and not have another large, seldom used power tool on a shelf.
Renting one for a day is a gamble. What if I can't complete the project
in that time frame for some reason? What if I got called away for an
emergency, or it started to rain? The rental fee would be more than if I
bought a cheap hammer drill from Harbor Freight (see above about buying
and storing seldom used tools).
If I had asked where to buy a wheelbarrow, I don't want to buy or rent
an ATV (Mule), a front end loader, a Bobcat, or anything other than a
wheelbarrow.

You don't get it. You never will get it.

No! YOU don't get it. I didn't ask for advice. I asked a simple and
direct question about where to buy a tool. What I got, for the most
part, were alternatives to the tool I was asking about. So, it's an old
tool, and alternatives are available, which I know about. I don't live
in a bubble. I wanted to use the old tool.


When people try to help you
you say "Thank you!" No one will force you to take their advice, but
you say "Thank you!" to be nice. That is the price you have to pay to
get free advice.

Thank you, to all that responded.


Now, when you next ask for advice on usenet, and
don't get any responses, think back to this thread and then don't even
think about asking why...

PLONK again

I'll try to re-phrase my questions better, since this was one of my few,
if any, original questions, rather than the many responses to others I
had posted.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Just to clarify the point that seems to have gone clear over your
head. What put the burr under our saddles was your rant about
unsolicited advice. Had you ended your post with the 'the job is done
using a star drill' - no problem. But then to gratuitously complain
about all the unwanted advice was over the top.

Harry K


Thanks for your opinion.
(I hope that didn't sound like an insult)

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

replying to willshak, rickbrad wrote:
Try Trow and Holding Co.I just googled them and found one for $42.00.Just
google where to order star drill hand tool and they pop up.Good luck

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/constr...ill-11147-.htm

replying to rickbrad, Grampy wrote:
Willshak's original post re drill is 13 years old (2007). Hopefully he is done
drilling the 40 holes by now ;-)

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/constr...ill-22447-.htm