Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

I am planning on redoing my kitchen soon. I have a soffit in my
kitchen which I must keep due to plumbing pipes. I also have to bring
my soffit down a little to accomodate a 6" duct inside that will vent
my range hood. So once the soffit is done, there will be exactly 48"
from the bottom of the soffit to the countertop. In order to maintain
the 18" between the countertop and the bottom of the cabinet, I
pretty much have to butt the 30" cabinet right up to the soffit, which
means there will be no crown molding since this is a full overlay
cabinet.
I was just wondering if this is whats normally done in this situation,
or if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks.

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

Mikepier wrote:
I am planning on redoing my kitchen soon. I have a soffit in my
kitchen which I must keep due to plumbing pipes. I also have to
bring my soffit down a little to accomodate a 6" duct inside that
will vent my range hood. So once the soffit is done, there will be
exactly 48" from the bottom of the soffit to the countertop. In
order to maintain the 18" between the countertop and the bottom of
the cabinet, I pretty much have to butt the 30" cabinet right up to
the soffit, which means there will be no crown molding since this
is a full overlay cabinet.
I was just wondering if this is whats normally done in this
situation, or if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks.

1. How wide is the soffit?

2. You don't *have* to have 18" from countertop to upper cabinets. In
fact, I find that excessive. I hung mine at 16" and in the past have
used 14". The lower they are the more useable they are.

3. I wouldn't use the soffit as the "liner upper" - I'd hang the
cabinets so they are horizontal. That may result in them being
parallel to the soffits or not so I'd also hang them so there is space
between soffit and cabinet. I cover that space with a molding which
is why I asked how wide your soffits are...gotta have space for the
molding.

4. What do full overlay doors have to do with using a crown molding?
Are you saying there isn't enough exposed space on the top of the face
frame for molding?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

1. How wide is the soffit?

The new soffit will run the entire length of the kitchen, 11 feet.
As I've said, because of a duct, it will be 12" high (from bottom of
the soffit to the ceiling)

2. You don't *have* to have 18" from countertop to upper cabinets. In
fact, I find that excessive. I hung mine at 16" and in the past have
used 14". The lower they are the more useable they are.

That's what I was thinking of. I don't know how critical that 18"
rule is. It's just what
I've read as the standard

3. I wouldn't use the soffit as the "liner upper" - I'd hang the
cabinets so they are horizontal. That may result in them being
parallel to the soffits or not so I'd also hang them so there is space
between soffit and cabinet. I cover that space with a molding which
is why I asked how wide your soffits are...gotta have space for the
molding.

4. What do full overlay doors have to do with using a crown molding?
Are you saying there isn't enough exposed space on the top of the face
frame for molding?

Full overlay cabinets are designed so the door covers the entire frame
of the cabinet. Which means if you look at a cabinet sideways, the top
of the door and the top of the frame are almost even. Putting on
molding is a little more involved.

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

On Sep 18, 6:31 am, Mikepier wrote:
I am planning on redoing my kitchen soon. I have a soffit in my
kitchen which I must keep due to plumbing pipes. I also have to bring
my soffit down a little to accomodate a 6" duct inside that will vent
my range hood. So once the soffit is done, there will be exactly 48"
from the bottom of the soffit to the countertop. In order to maintain
the 18" between the countertop and the bottom of the cabinet, I
pretty much have to butt the 30" cabinet right up to the soffit, which
means there will be no crown molding since this is a full overlay
cabinet.
I was just wondering if this is whats normally done in this situation,
or if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks.

Dont worry about the 18 inches, my wife is short so I lowered the
cabinets to 16 inches for her benefit, so you could fit a small 2 inch
drop crown and make it appear bigger by getting a crown profile with a
longer projection instead (that is if soffit depth to wall allows
it). Modern cabinet designs are often staggered too, with some
cabinets going higher or lower than 18, or some even set on top of the
counter in places.

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

Abit off topic, but I am also getting ready to redo my kitch. I will
be removing soffits and hanging new cabs. I will leave measuring and
installing granite countertops to the pros but I'l be doing removing/
rebuilding some interior walls, new electrical and plumbing. I am not
a professional remodeler. My wife and a few others are telling me to
get the cabs installed by someone else, but I can't believe its all
that difficult. Awkward maybe yes (esp the hanging cabs), but not
difficult. And not worth $1000 to have someone else do it.

I've redone bathrooms, built a deck, and a gazebo. Please tell me
that with good carpentry skills, a level, and some extra hands,
installing floor and hanging cabs ain't that hard.

--Jeff

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

JB wrote:
Abit off topic, but I am also getting ready to redo my kitch. I
will be removing soffits and hanging new cabs. I will leave
measuring and installing granite countertops to the pros but I'l be
doing removing/ rebuilding some interior walls, new electrical and
plumbing. I am not a professional remodeler. My wife and a few
others are telling me to get the cabs installed by someone else,
but I can't believe its all that difficult. Awkward maybe yes (esp
the hanging cabs), but not difficult. And not worth $1000 to have
someone else do it.

You're right, it isn't rocket science.

Easiest thing to do is install the uppers first. Easiest way to do
that is to rest them - one at a time - on a pair of narrow 2x4
crutches built for the purpose. Once the uppers are up, the lowers are
easy.

The cabinets are screwed to the wall studs from the cabinet inside
through the nailing strip(s). However, don't lock the screws down
real tight until all are up. At that point, align the front edges of
the cabinets and hold them that way with handscrews. Assuming the
cabinets have face frames (and that you took off the doors prior to
hanging) screw the cabinets to their neighbors through the edge of the
face frame. If the hinges mount on the face frame then under the
hinge is a good place to put the screws. Once the cabinets are all
screwed together, take off the handscrew clamps and tighten the screws
holding them on the wall...easy does it, because walls aren't flat and
you don't want to rack the cabinets.

The fact that walls aren't flat is the only real PITA when hanging
cabinets. For example, it may be that the center cabinet is against a
vertical drywall seam which means the sides of the end cabinets won't
be flush to the wall. Two possible fixes...if the back edge of the
side allows it, you can spile it to the wall; if not, use molding.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

on 9/18/2007 1:54 PM JB said the following:
Abit off topic, but I am also getting ready to redo my kitch. I will
be removing soffits and hanging new cabs. I will leave measuring and
installing granite countertops to the pros but I'l be doing removing/
rebuilding some interior walls, new electrical and plumbing. I am not
a professional remodeler. My wife and a few others are telling me to
get the cabs installed by someone else, but I can't believe its all
that difficult. Awkward maybe yes (esp the hanging cabs), but not
difficult. And not worth $1000 to have someone else do it.

I've redone bathrooms, built a deck, and a gazebo. Please tell me
that with good carpentry skills, a level, and some extra hands,
installing floor and hanging cabs ain't that hard.

--Jeff

I've done it many times. The secret is knowing how to measure and level
the cabinets.
I've installed hanging cabinets, by myself alone, by screwing a length
of 2x board along the wall where the bottom of the cabinets should be
located, and then just raising the cabinet and setting the bottom of the
cabinet on this 2x, and while holding the cabinet against the wall at
the top, screwing it into the wall.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

Mikepier wrote:
1. How wide is the soffit?

The new soffit will run the entire length of the kitchen, 11 feet.
As I've said, because of a duct, it will be 12" high (from bottom of
the soffit to the ceiling)

I wasn't interested in either length or height, just the width. Not
important since you can't use molding anyway since you seem to have
"European" style cabinets which are a box with doors; i.e., no face
frame.

Full overlay cabinets are designed so the door covers the entire
frame of the cabinet. Which means if you look at a cabinet
sideways, the top of the door and the top of the frame are almost
even. Putting on molding is a little more involved.

I've never heard of "full overlay cabinets". Full overlay *doors*,
yes; cabinets, no. Full overlay doors are "full overlay" because they
are on the outside of the face frame instead of being recessed either
fully or partially. There is normally a reveal with full overlay
doors - an inch at least and that inch would accommodate a molding.
Your box cabinets won't, good luck in hanging them.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

Thanks. This is exactly what I thought from watching DIY-er shows and
some reading. I figured a one or more 2x4 "T" braces would hold it in
place against a level line on the wall while I level up, align, screw
in, etc.

Re wavy walls, I get your point about a drywall seam. But can't you/
shouldn't you shove a shim board behind the cab from the bottom up
where there is a gap (in your example, on both ends)? Even if its
just a narrow piece of 1/8" plywood, that way there is no bending
pressure on the back of the cab once you tighten up the screws?

--Jeff


You're right, it isn't rocket science.

Easiest thing to do is install the uppers first. Easiest way to do
that is to rest them - one at a time - on a pair of narrow 2x4
crutches built for the purpose. Once the uppers are up, the lowers are
easy.

The cabinets are screwed to the wall studs from the cabinet inside
through the nailing strip(s). However, don't lock the screws down
real tight until all are up. At that point, align the front edges of
the cabinets and hold them that way with handscrews. Assuming the
cabinets have face frames (and that you took off the doors prior to
hanging) screw the cabinets to their neighbors through the edge of the
face frame. If the hinges mount on the face frame then under the
hinge is a good place to put the screws. Once the cabinets are all
screwed together, take off the handscrew clamps and tighten the screws
holding them on the wall...easy does it, because walls aren't flat and
you don't want to rack the cabinets.

The fact that walls aren't flat is the only real PITA when hanging
cabinets. For example, it may be that the center cabinet is against a
vertical drywall seam which means the sides of the end cabinets won't
be flush to the wall. Two possible fixes...if the back edge of the
side allows it, you can spile it to the wall; if not, use molding.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

JB wrote:

Re wavy walls, I get your point about a drywall seam. But can't
you/ shouldn't you shove a shim board behind the cab from the
bottom up where there is a gap (in your example, on both ends)?
Even if its just a narrow piece of 1/8" plywood, that way there is
no bending pressure on the back of the cab once you tighten up the
screws?

Sure. Especially if the screws happen to be where they would exert
considerable pressure such as (in same example) near the ends.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

dadiOH wrote:

The cabinets are screwed to the wall studs from the cabinet inside
through the nailing strip(s). However, don't lock the screws down
real tight until all are up. At that point, align the front edges of
the cabinets and hold them that way with handscrews.

An article in Fine Homebuilding suggested aligning the whole run of
cabinets on the ground and screwing them together (with spacers at the
back if they have face frames at the front). Then the whole run is
lifted up to the wall as a unit. You then shim behind them before
screwing them to the wall. That way you're guaranteed proper alignment
along the front, and the shims give proper support at the back.

Chris

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

I've never heard of "full overlay cabinets". Full overlay *doors*,
yes; cabinets, no. Full overlay doors are "full overlay" because they
are on the outside of the face frame instead of being recessed either
fully or partially. There is normally a reveal with full overlay
doors - an inch at least and that inch would accommodate a molding.
Your box cabinets won't, good luck in hanging them.

Well , that's what I meant, full overlay doors. Kraftsmaid cabinetry
sells 3 versions of overlay:
Full overlay
1" overlay ( meaning 1/2" of the cabinet frame is exposed)
1/2" overlay ( meaning 1" of the cabinet frame is exposed)

To accomodate a molding for full overay doors, there is a piece that
goes on top of the cabinet, like a bullnose, which extends past the
frame and the door so you can put the crown on this "bullnose" piece.

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

On Sep 18, 12:54 pm, JB wrote:
Abit off topic, but I am also getting ready to redo my kitch. I will
be removing soffits and hanging new cabs. I will leave measuring and
installing granite countertops to the pros but I'l be doing removing/
rebuilding some interior walls, new electrical and plumbing. I am not
a professional remodeler. My wife and a few others are telling me to
get the cabs installed by someone else, but I can't believe its all
that difficult. Awkward maybe yes (esp the hanging cabs), but not
difficult. And not worth $1000 to have someone else do it.

I've redone bathrooms, built a deck, and a gazebo. Please tell me
that with good carpentry skills, a level, and some extra hands,
installing floor and hanging cabs ain't that hard.

--Jeff

Install uppers firs, with temporary firring on wall to hold them
level. Clamp/screw the mullions (or adjacent sides if full open euro
box type) together before final screwing to wall, this will ensure
that the fronts look tight even if the wall is bowed or cupped.

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

On Sep 19, 6:32 am, Mikepier wrote:
I've never heard of "full overlay cabinets". Full overlay *doors*,
yes; cabinets, no. Full overlay doors are "full overlay" because they
are on the outside of the face frame instead of being recessed either
fully or partially. There is normally a reveal with full overlay
doors - an inch at least and that inch would accommodate a molding.
Your box cabinets won't, good luck in hanging them.

Well , that's what I meant, full overlay doors. Kraftsmaid cabinetry
sells 3 versions of overlay:
Full overlay
1" overlay ( meaning 1/2" of the cabinet frame is exposed)
1/2" overlay ( meaning 1" of the cabinet frame is exposed)

To accomodate a molding for full overay doors, there is a piece that
goes on top of the cabinet, like a bullnose, which extends past the
frame and the door so you can put the crown on this "bullnose" piece.

I like the euro boxes better than the American center mullion type
because there is no center mullion blocking the opening. Does
Kraftmaid make a cabinet with no center mullion now?

Installing full overlay cabinets under soffit.
 

RickH wrote:

I like the euro boxes better than the American center mullion type
because there is no center mullion blocking the opening.

No cabinet *has* to have the center stile (mine don't). It is there
so that the doors on cabinets that are too wide for a single door have
something to close against (and space to swing open without hitting
the other door). As an alternative, the doors can be made with an
overlapping rabbet on the inside edges. The disadvantage is that the
overlapped door can't be opened without opening the other. No big
deal IMO. Another alternative is a center vertical divider in the
cabinet itself. I prefer the door overlap.

The disadvantage of European style cabinets is that they have no face
frame and the face frame - done properly - adds much strength and
rigidity.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico