By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

On Jul 7, 9:43 am, Windswept@home (Clueless Mary) wrote:
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

If the roofer has enough experience in your neighborhood, he probably
has a 90% confidence level what is the sheathing thickness. It's
still an assumption on his part. If the guy is contemplating just
guessing and going with it, that's not really a good sign. Did the
roofer go into your attic to verify what was going on with the
sheathing?

R

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote

By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

This would concern me. He should not need money from you
to get the supplies. From everything I have read, a reputable
contracter has a line of credit with stores. I have never had to pay
for materials up front like that.

nancy

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:48:28 -0700, RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:43 am, Windswept@home (Clueless Mary) wrote:
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

If the roofer has enough experience in your neighborhood, he probably
has a 90% confidence level what is the sheathing thickness. It's
still an assumption on his part. If the guy is contemplating just
guessing and going with it, that's not really a good sign. Did the
roofer go into your attic to verify what was going on with the
sheathing?

R


Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com

I know someone who also had buckled roof .. .. the cause was the
original carpenter who installed the sheathing had driven the nails too
deep, and the plys were separating a bunch .. .. re-nailed the whole
roof during a re-shingle job and all is well. You need to know WHY the
roof is buckled before you can allow anyone to repair it. I'd be
getting 2nd and 3rd opinions. Call a carpenter as well as a roofer to
offer options. This roofer might be just trumping-up some easy money.




Clueless Mary wrote:
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

On Jul 7, 10:38 am, "Nancy Young" wrote:
"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote

By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

This would concern me. He should not need money from you
to get the supplies. From everything I have read, a reputable
contracter has a line of credit with stores. I have never had to pay
for materials up front like that.

Collecting a deposit does not mean the contractor _needs_ the money,
it's simply a standard procedure for most and is a good business
practice. There's risk for the contractor, same as the owner, so
collecting money that's being spent on the _owner's_ project only
makes sense. Whether a deposit is collected or not depends entirely
on the contractor, but the maximum allowable deposit is usually
spelled out by local or state law, so obviously it's OK with them.
The line of credit at a supplier is there for the contractor's
benefit, not the owner's. If the contractor decides to float the
owner, that's up to them.

R

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
. ..

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote

By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

This would concern me. He should not need money from you
to get the supplies. From everything I have read, a reputable
contracter has a line of credit with stores. I have never had to pay
for materials up front like that.

nancy

Maybe, maybe not. Some small contractors do very good work, but are not
fiscally able to finance much of a job. It is also protection for them
against a homeowner that tries to stiff them. The guy that did my roof is a
god example. I gave him a third up front. Of course, I knew him by
reputation for a number of years.

"Just Joshin" wrote


Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com


One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get paid
when the job is done.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

Steve

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

You're not in business I see.

Almost everybody gets a deposit these days!!!!

Only the derelicts and fugitives. Reputable contractors don't.

And I can see that you've NEVER been in business. Most companies and
businesses will NOT pay in advance under any circumstances. They will make
progress payments as stages of the work are completed, but they will NEVER
let the workman get ahead of them.

Steve, a former steel erection contractor, State of Nevada for nine years

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Never paid a deposit?


Only on pop bottles and beer kegs.

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote in message
...
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.


Is he replacing all the sheating?

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.

Probably from the experience of working on hundreds of roofs, and that there
is only one thickness used in your area. Probably half inch. And sometimes
a piece is visible on the outside that can be seen, so he doesn't need to go
inside. Ask him how he's sure. If you don't think the man knows what he's
doing, hire someone else.

Roofing isn't rocket science, and if there is a difference in the sheathing,
it's only going to be 1/8", and that can be shimmed so it is not a visible
transition.

Steve

"Just Joshin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 06:48:28 -0700, RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:43 am, Windswept@home (Clueless Mary) wrote:
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

If the roofer has enough experience in your neighborhood, he probably
has a 90% confidence level what is the sheathing thickness. It's
still an assumption on his part. If the guy is contemplating just
guessing and going with it, that's not really a good sign. Did the
roofer go into your attic to verify what was going on with the
sheathing?

R


Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.


You're not in business I see.

Almost everybody gets a deposit these days!!!!

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
. ..

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote

By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

This would concern me. He should not need money from you
to get the supplies. From everything I have read, a reputable
contracter has a line of credit with stores. I have never had to pay
for materials up front like that.


Never paid a deposit?

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote in message
...

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.

1. By knowing local building practice is to build in
conformity with the llocal building code.
2. By knowing what thickness of roof sheathing is
specified in the local building coded.

Both appear normal for successful roofers.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.


1. By knowing local building practice is to build in
conformity with the llocal building code.
2. By knowing what thickness of roof sheathing is
specified in the local building coded.

Both appear normal for successful roofers.

Pretty good logic .. EXCEPT .. "CODE" does not specify what material or
thickness to use .. .. only the MINIMUM allowed. How would he know if
the structure was built to custom specs that exceeded the code ?? I
still say you need to determine what caused the buckling before you can
do much to correct it.

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Just Joshin" wrote


Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com


One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get
paid
when the job is done.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

Steve


The normal is to pay a deposit.

I guess you like doing **** for nothing?

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

You're not in business I see.

Almost everybody gets a deposit these days!!!!

Only the derelicts and fugitives. Reputable contractors don't.


Bull****!!!


And I can see that you've NEVER been in business. Most companies and
businesses will NOT pay in advance under any circumstances. They will
make
progress payments as stages of the work are completed, but they will NEVER
let the workman get ahead of them.


We're talking about a residential project here, MORON.

I see you've never worked residential jobs!


Steve, a former steel erection contractor, State of Nevada for nine years


Oh my, a whole 9 years..... LOL

Come back when you've learnt how business is run in today's world.

"SteveB" wrote

"Just Joshin" wrote

Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get
paid when the job is done.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

If I've read it once, I've read it a million times. If the local suppliers
don't trust the person enough to extend credit, there is probably a
reason. I have never had to front anyone money for supplies.

However, perhaps that is normal elsewhere.

nancy

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Never paid a deposit?


Only on pop bottles and beer kegs.


I knew this wouldn't pertain to you... as renters never have to hire a
contractor!

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.

Probably from the experience of working on hundreds of roofs, and that
there
is only one thickness used in your area. Probably half inch. And
sometimes
a piece is visible on the outside that can be seen, so he doesn't need to
go
inside. Ask him how he's sure. If you don't think the man knows what
he's
doing, hire someone else.

Roofing isn't rocket science, and if there is a difference in the
sheathing,
it's only going to be 1/8", and that can be shimmed so it is not a visible
transition.

Steve


I see you need to stick with giving advice on another subject.

One thickness per area????? LOL
Only an 1/8 of an inch??????? LOL

What's the difference between 1/2 and 3/4?????

Now go outside and play with your dog little kiddy.

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

"SteveB" wrote

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Never paid a deposit?

Only on pop bottles and beer kegs.

I knew this wouldn't pertain to you... as renters never have to hire a
contractor!

I don't know why this is annoying you but ... no, all the work
I've had done on my house, no deposits, except for ordering the
kitchen cabinets. I didn't buy them from the contractor.

nancy

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

"SteveB" wrote

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Never paid a deposit?

Only on pop bottles and beer kegs.

I knew this wouldn't pertain to you... as renters never have to hire a
contractor!

I don't know why this is annoying you but ... no, all the work
I've had done on my house, no deposits, except for ordering the
kitchen cabinets. I didn't buy them from the contractor.


Sounds like a deposit to me...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

"Nancy Young" wrote

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

"SteveB" wrote

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Never paid a deposit?

Only on pop bottles and beer kegs.

I knew this wouldn't pertain to you... as renters never have to hire a
contractor!

I don't know why this is annoying you but ... no, all the work
I've had done on my house, no deposits, except for ordering the
kitchen cabinets. I didn't buy them from the contractor.

Sounds like a deposit to me...

No, I bought them because I knew what I wanted, and the layout.
I only started looking for a contractor after the cabinets were sitting
in my garage.

nancy

"Nancy Young" wrote

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

"Nancy Young" wrote

I knew this wouldn't pertain to you... as renters never have to hire a
contractor!

I don't know why this is annoying you but ... no, all the work
I've had done on my house, no deposits, except for ordering the
kitchen cabinets. I didn't buy them from the contractor.

Sounds like a deposit to me...

No, I bought them because I knew what I wanted, and the layout.
I only started looking for a contractor after the cabinets were sitting
in my garage.

Ooops, I didn't finish. The contractor brought all the sheetrock,
wood trim, electrical stuff, etc etc that was needed for the job.
No payment for anything up front.

nancy

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Just Joshin" wrote


Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

tom @ www.WorkAtHomePlans.com


One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get
paid
when the job is done.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

Steve


The normal is to pay a deposit.

I guess you like doing **** for nothing?



Huh? What I prefer is a company that has enough operating capital to be
able to swing it so that in the three days from the time they start the job
until they end it, they don't go out of business because they can't afford
to buy supplies enough for the job.

Steve

"Nancy Young" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote

"Just Joshin" wrote

Agreed that your reply makes sense. The other concern I have, is how
he/she NEEDS the down payment to buy supplies. Most supply houses
around here have credit available. IMHO, not a good sign.

One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs. If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get
paid when the job is done.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

If I've read it once, I've read it a million times. If the local
suppliers
don't trust the person enough to extend credit, there is probably a
reason. I have never had to front anyone money for supplies.

However, perhaps that is normal elsewhere.

nancy


Must be normal where kjpro is from, as he finds deposits a vital part of
business. Deposits are only usual and customary for custom work and special
order goods.

Steve

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

You're not in business I see.

Almost everybody gets a deposit these days!!!!

Only the derelicts and fugitives. Reputable contractors don't.


Bull****!!!


And I can see that you've NEVER been in business. Most companies and
businesses will NOT pay in advance under any circumstances. They will
make
progress payments as stages of the work are completed, but they will
NEVER
let the workman get ahead of them.


We're talking about a residential project here, MORON.

I see you've never worked residential jobs!


Steve, a former steel erection contractor, State of Nevada for nine years


Oh my, a whole 9 years..... LOL

Come back when you've learnt how business is run in today's world.

I sold out for a handsome profit for nine years work, and went back overseas
for a few contracts where all I had to do was show up.

I was reluctant to do residential jobs because my commercial customer base
kept me too busy for that. It also payed more.

Steve

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.

Probably from the experience of working on hundreds of roofs, and that
there
is only one thickness used in your area. Probably half inch. And
sometimes
a piece is visible on the outside that can be seen, so he doesn't need to
go
inside. Ask him how he's sure. If you don't think the man knows what
he's
doing, hire someone else.

Roofing isn't rocket science, and if there is a difference in the
sheathing,
it's only going to be 1/8", and that can be shimmed so it is not a
visible
transition.

Steve


I see you need to stick with giving advice on another subject.

One thickness per area????? LOL
Only an 1/8 of an inch??????? LOL

What's the difference between 1/2 and 3/4?????

Now go outside and play with your dog little kiddy.




Man, you follow me like a puppy. Most roofers use 1/2" and 5/8". I don't
know of a lot who use 3/4" for roofing.

Steve

"EXT" wrote in message
anews.com...
Had my roof done a couple of years ago with a special order shingle. No
down payment. Total cost about $15,000.00 with all the extras, etc. Paid
nothing until bill arrived in the mail a few weeks after the job was
complete.


How can this be? It has been stated time and again here that deposits are
usual and customary. ;-)

There's been a lot said here about deposits.

Deposits are usual and customary in today's market for custom work, special
orders, and other special circumstances agreed upon in advance by both
parties of the contract.

I started out my steel erection contracting business doing ornamental metal
in my garage. 50% down because it was custom work, and 50% upon
installation.

I did about two years of this before I grew and got into the commercial
market and got my contractor's license. In that time, I was jerked around
by so many homeowners that I was sick of it.

Once I took off commercially, I changed policies. If anyone said ANYTHING
about the deposit on custom work, I'd just put a big X on my copy, and tell
them to call me. If they did call back for the work, I'd say that I was
just too busy and they could call back every three months. Anyone who
grumped about paying a deposit for custom work would grump about everything
else, too. Usually they called me back with some long tale of woe about how
bad a job they had gotten at a "bargain" price, and could I come fix it.
"Sure, a truck and two men are $95 per hour." More wailing.

Once I got commercial, the word "deposit" never came up. They pay when the
job is FINISHED AND INSPECTED. Or they do progress payments. And then it
may take a while for the girl to cut the check.

So, while I say deposits are bad and unnecessary, I must admit that
sometimes ..................
The main thing is to know your contractor, have recourse, see their
licensing and insurance, and check things out.

As for homeowners paying for stuff up front, I have heard too many horror
stories. It's like the drunk who asks for a buck to get something to eat.
You offer to take him and buy him a burger. No, they want the buck. If the
contractor can't get the materials, YOU buy them and dispense them as used.
But NOOOOO, they want the deposit.

Many have written here, both the informed and the clueless. It is different
with different types of businesses, and areas. But business is business,
and it's just not a smart idea to pay for something you don't get.

MHO, YMMV

Steve

kjpro @ usenet.com wrote

Now go outside and play with your dog little kiddy.

Kitty Litter, meet kjpro. bye

Had my roof done a couple of years ago with a special order shingle. No down
payment. Total cost about $15,000.00 with all the extras, etc. Paid nothing
until bill arrived in the mail a few weeks after the job was complete.

"Clueless Mary" Windswept@home wrote in message
...
By visual inspection, roofer diagnoses buckling in some of the plywood
sheathing and takes a down payment to buy supplies, including the
plywood sheathing.

How does roofer know the thickness of the sheathing without
ripping-off the shingles? Seems to me that he'll need to use the
same thickness to match the existing sheathing that has not buckled.
Thanks.

On Jul 7, 1:26 pm, "Nancy Young" wrote:
"SteveB" wrote

One of the top ten stupid things people do in life is pay in advance for
repairs.

What are the other nine?

If the person is licensed, experienced, and in business long
enough, they will have the money or credit to buy the materials and get
paid when the job is done.

I have all of those things, yet oddly enough, I find someone's
resistance to making a deposit, in full accordance with applicable
law, as a sign of distrust. This makes me distrustful. How do I know
that they'll pay me when I'm done? Because they say so? Hell, I'm
saying so, and you don't trust me? It's a two way street. I wouldn't
work for you with your attitude, and you wouldn't work with me because
I expect to run my business like a business. We're both happy.

NEVER PAY UP FRONT.

It used to be that only larger contractors ran their businesses like
businesses. Larger businesses have established ways of doing
business, just as people have their individual preferences, and any
individual customer's wishes probably won't be enough to convince the
larger contractor to revise the way they customarily do business. As
skilled workers are harder to come by, and as contractor
sophistication grows (it's amazing how many tradesmen have college
degrees nowadays), repair and handyman outfits are adopting the
methods of the larger contractors because those methods are good
business practice, provide security for the contractor and they work.

People who are scared witless when hiring a contractor and don't know
how to protect themselves say such things as NEVER PAY UP FRONT. By
the time contract signing rolls around, the owner should have done
their due diligence and investigated the contractor and satisfied
themselves on their business rating, reputation at supply yards,
looked into their licensing and insurance situation and taken the
measure of the man.

Trying to use money to protect yourself is nonsensical. If you're not
satisfied of the contractor's ability, legality and honesty, you
shouldn't let them work on your house in the first place. A bad
contractor can nifong up your house very quickly, and do damage that
will cost you far more than the amount of the initial repair.
Repairing a bad contractor's work keeps good contractor's in work.

If I've read it once, I've read it a million times. If the local suppliers
don't trust the person enough to extend credit, there is probably a
reason. I have never had to front anyone money for supplies.

Let me see if I understand you. You want the contractor to front you
money (that's what he's doing when he buys materials for your job
before you've paid for them), but you don't want to front money to the
contractor. Does that sound right to you?

You seem to be assuming that a contractor doesn't have a line of
credit if he doesn't extend the line of credit to you. It doesn't
necessarily work that way. A line of credit from a supplier is for
the benefit of their customers. You are not the supplier's customer.
The contractor is their customer. You are the contractor's customer.

If the contractor uses a line of credit from the supplier, and doesn't
extend it to you, that now becomes a small profit center for the
contractor. Contractors are in business to make a profit. The
contractor can decide to extend the supplier credit to you or not -
that is their call, just as it is your call to accept or reject the
arrangement.

If an owner doesn't understand that a contractor weighs the value of
the job compared to other potential jobs, the anticipated income and
an owner's pain-in-the-ass factor, then the owner should not be
negotiating with the contractor in the first place. They should have
someone else do the negotiating for them as they are not in touch with
the reality of being a contractor and are not up to the task of
selecting a good one.

However, perhaps that is normal elsewhere.

It is.

Note to the OP: if you're not up to the task of inspecting and
insuring the work that goes on up on your roof, and you don't trust
the contractor, I strongly suggest you find another contractor or hire
someone to protect your interests. Contracting is all about risk.
You pay for reduced risk. If you want full glass coverage on your
car, you pay for it. If you want to rest assured that the work is
being done correctly and the contractor is not out to screw you, you
will pay more for it. That's how it works.

R

giving a down payment is the way to get ripped off. if a company
isnt big enough to wait till the jobs done before collecting
payment.send them on their way. you wouldnt believe the number of
contractors that never return after getting a down payment. he's
guessing on the wood thickness..lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 7, 5:01 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message

Had my roof done a couple of years ago with a special order shingle. No
down payment. Total cost about $15,000.00 with all the extras, etc.
Paid
nothing until bill arrived in the mail a few weeks after the job was
complete.

How can this be? It has been stated time and again here that deposits
are
usual and customary. ;-)

Nevada seems to think a deposit is not unusual. That's where you're
from, right?
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...0Consumers.pdf
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...Contractor.pdf

The last has this to say:
Large Down Payments
A dishonest contractor demands a large down payment to cover supplies
and pay workers. On most types of contracts, there is no set amount
for a down payment. However, it is a good rule of thumb not to let the
payments get ahead of the work.

If a contractor is asking for a big deposit and/or cash, that's one
thing, and it's definitely a warning sign. But you didn't say
something normal and reasonable, like not letting the payments get
ahead of the work. That is reasonable, NEVER PAY UP FRONT is not.

If a customer expressed concern about the deposit and paying for their
materials, and they weren't sending off all of these negative warning
signals like you're doing, I'd offer to let them pay the supplier
directly when delivery was made. That way they paid for their
materials that are now safely stored on their property. It's actually
safer for the owner as paying the supplier directly insures that there
won't be a supplier's mechanics lien.
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...To%20Owner.pdf

Where's the risk in that? Oh, right. There is none, but it's not
about the risk for you. It's about getting something for nothing and/
or being one up on somebody. The saddest thing is that people might
actually listen to your nonsense and rule out good contractors with
good reputations that know how to run a business. That's just wrong.

R



Well, that settles it. You said it, so it must be true.

I tell you what, Ric. I'll do what I want with MY money, and you can do the
same. Just as with all the other readers here.

I shall, however, continue to state my experiences, suggestions, and advice
here with no need of approval from you. People can, and will, do as they
please in their own circumstances.

Steve

"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 7, 5:14 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
There's been a lot said here about deposits.

Deposits are usual and customary in today's market for custom work,
special
orders, and other special circumstances agreed upon in advance by both
parties of the contract.

I started out my steel erection contracting business doing ornamental
metal
in my garage. 50% down because it was custom work, and 50% upon
installation.

I did about two years of this before I grew and got into the commercial
market and got my contractor's license. In that time, I was jerked
around
by so many homeowners that I was sick of it.

Once I took off commercially, I changed policies. If anyone said
ANYTHING
about the deposit on custom work, I'd just put a big X on my copy, and
tell
them to call me. If they did call back for the work, I'd say that I was
just too busy and they could call back every three months. Anyone who
grumped about paying a deposit for custom work would grump about
everything
else, too. Usually they called me back with some long tale of woe about
how
bad a job they had gotten at a "bargain" price, and could I come fix it.
"Sure, a truck and two men are $95 per hour." More wailing.

Once I got commercial, the word "deposit" never came up. They pay when
the
job is FINISHED AND INSPECTED. Or they do progress payments. And then
it
may take a while for the girl to cut the check.

So, while I say deposits are bad and unnecessary, I must admit that
sometimes ..................
The main thing is to know your contractor, have recourse, see their
licensing and insurance, and check things out.

As for homeowners paying for stuff up front, I have heard too many horror
stories. It's like the drunk who asks for a buck to get something to
eat.
You offer to take him and buy him a burger. No, they want the buck. If
the
contractor can't get the materials, YOU buy them and dispense them as
used.
But NOOOOO, they want the deposit.

Many have written here, both the informed and the clueless. It is
different
with different types of businesses, and areas. But business is business,
and it's just not a smart idea to pay for something you don't get.

Do you even read the stuff you write before you hit send? I know you
don't think about it.

A little while ago you were shouting NEVER PAY FOR WORK UP FRONT, now
you're telling us that you customarily did business that way? Then
you're telling us that you left the deposit thing behind when you went
into commercial work. WTF? Sure, there's no difference between
commercial and residential work, is there? Sheesh.

R


At least I am honest enough to tell the story. Things change in people's
lives (not yours apparently) and from one time to another, they do things
differently.

As for now, I don't USUALLY give deposits, save for custom work or special
orders. And I damn sure wouldn't give a deposit to a roofer under any
circumstances.

Steve

"RicodJour" wrote

Do you even read the stuff you write before you hit send? I know you
don't think about it.

That's your trouble, Ric, you know more than your capacity.

Now let me think about this ................

plonk .......................

Do I want to hit the SEND button .................

Wait, wait, I know this .............

Bye, Rick the Dick ....................

"Dottie" wrote


I had my roof repaired last year. This year I got a new roof. Last
year I had the valley repaired and did not pay anything up front. The
company doing the job was a very large company. This year we decided
it was time to replace the old tile roof with shingles before the
price got too high for shingles. We paid one third down up front.
The company was a small company with a good reputation. When the job
was finished we paid the balance. This is customary here (FL). I
don't know of any company that would start work without a down
payment.


What about the big one that did the first repair?

Steve

On Jul 7, 5:01 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"EXT" wrote in message

Had my roof done a couple of years ago with a special order shingle. No
down payment. Total cost about $15,000.00 with all the extras, etc. Paid
nothing until bill arrived in the mail a few weeks after the job was
complete.

How can this be? It has been stated time and again here that deposits are
usual and customary. ;-)

Nevada seems to think a deposit is not unusual. That's where you're
from, right?
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...0Consumers.pdf
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...Contractor.pdf

The last has this to say:
Large Down Payments
A dishonest contractor demands a large down payment to cover supplies
and pay workers. On most types of contracts, there is no set amount
for a down payment. However, it is a good rule of thumb not to let the
payments get ahead of the work.

If a contractor is asking for a big deposit and/or cash, that's one
thing, and it's definitely a warning sign. But you didn't say
something normal and reasonable, like not letting the payments get
ahead of the work. That is reasonable, NEVER PAY UP FRONT is not.

If a customer expressed concern about the deposit and paying for their
materials, and they weren't sending off all of these negative warning
signals like you're doing, I'd offer to let them pay the supplier
directly when delivery was made. That way they paid for their
materials that are now safely stored on their property. It's actually
safer for the owner as paying the supplier directly insures that there
won't be a supplier's mechanics lien.
http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/Co...To%20Owner.pdf

Where's the risk in that? Oh, right. There is none, but it's not
about the risk for you. It's about getting something for nothing and/
or being one up on somebody. The saddest thing is that people might
actually listen to your nonsense and rule out good contractors with
good reputations that know how to run a business. That's just wrong.

R