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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox


'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.

Thx,
Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.

My first guess is that it isn't one wire, but two.
If not, my second guess is that it used to have a second wire, but no longer
does.


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:10:04 GMT, "Toller" wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .

'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.

My first guess is that it isn't one wire, but two.


That'll win ya noooooooooo cigar. It's a single length of
single strand 14 g. cu wire.

If not, my second guess is that it used to have a second wire, but no longer
does.


It would defy the standard practice of that era that I'm familiar with,
which simply involves cutting and stripping wires, then applying the
wire nut.

P


"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

Puddin' Man wrote:
....

One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?

....

Well, no I don't think anybody is going to "know", but the guess would
be there was at one time a splice there if, indeed the wire hasn't been cut.

--
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check). From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box. Are
the fan and light separately switched?


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

dpb wrote:
Puddin' Man wrote:
...

One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where the
wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the nut,
just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no purpose
whatsoever that I can see.

Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?

...

Well, no I don't think anybody is going to "know", but the guess would
be there was at one time a splice there if, indeed the wire hasn't been
cut.


Actually, whether it was cut or not...

--
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).


St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.


Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?


No.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Jun 24, 7:49 pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:10:04 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .


'allo,


I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.


It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.


Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.


My first guess is that it isn't one wire, but two.


That'll win ya noooooooooo cigar. It's a single length of
single strand 14 g. cu wire.

If not, my second guess is that it used to have a second wire, but no longer
does.


-- It would defy the standard practice of that era that I'm familiar
with,
-- which simply involves cutting and stripping wires, then applying
the
-- wire nut

So? Who's to say that whoever did whatever it is that they did knew
anything about "standard practices"? Many if us have seen many
different types of hack jobs, electrical and otherwise,

I vote for the "second wire that is no longer present" along with a
rookie installation/deinstallation.

Another possibility is a nicked insulation and not enough wire to cut
it back to the nick, so they simply stripped of the nicked insualtion
and protected the bare wire with a wire nut - mainly because they were
out of electrical tape at the time. ;-)


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox


Another possibility is a nicked insulation and not enough wire to cut
it back to the nick, so they simply stripped of the nicked insualtion
and protected the bare wire with a wire nut - mainly because they were
out of electrical tape at the time. ;-)

I thought of that as a third possibility, but it seemed too silly


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:36:55 -0700, DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Jun 24, 7:49 pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:10:04 GMT, "Toller" wrote:

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .


'allo,


I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.


It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.


Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.


My first guess is that it isn't one wire, but two.


That'll win ya noooooooooo cigar. It's a single length of
single strand 14 g. cu wire.

If not, my second guess is that it used to have a second wire, but no longer
does.


-- It would defy the standard practice of that era that I'm familiar
with,
-- which simply involves cutting and stripping wires, then applying
the
-- wire nut

So? Who's to say that whoever did whatever it is that they did knew
anything about "standard practices"? Many if us have seen many
different types of hack jobs, electrical and otherwise,


True.

I vote for the "second wire that is no longer present" along with a
rookie installation/deinstallation.


Conceivable, but it didn't look like it.

Another possibility is a nicked insulation and not enough wire to cut
it back to the nick, so they simply stripped of the nicked insualtion
and protected the bare wire with a wire nut - mainly because they were
out of electrical tape at the time. ;-)


I guess anything was possible. Part of the reason I posted was
b/c I knew of the previous owners of the house. The first was in
construction trades (roofer), the 2nd was a newspaper guy who
evidently did nothing with wiring. Neither seems likely to have
committed unnatural wiring acts.

But, who knows? Buying a house, even new, is buying at least a few
mysteries.

Cheers,
Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).


St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.


Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?


No.


Probably was a double switch that installed in a single gang box, they used
a receptacle cover plate with one switch in each place where an outlet would
normally be. Probably someone replaced it with a single switch or couldn't
find a double replacement. They are still available if you look. In Decora
style you can even get a triple switch, although wiring them must be
difficult and cramped.



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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:51:01 -0400, "EXT" wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).


St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.


Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?


No.


Probably was a double switch that installed in a single gang box, they used
a receptacle cover plate with one switch in each place where an outlet would
normally be.


They had those back in '54?

There is only one hot wire running from the box to the ceiling
fixture. Can't imagine how/why another switched circuit
would've been crammed into the tiny work box.

Probably someone replaced it with a single switch or couldn't
find a double replacement. They are still available if you look. In Decora
style you can even get a triple switch, although wiring them must be
difficult and cramped.


Thanks, but this explanation doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller
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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

Then, someone probably skinned the wire accidentally and patched it with a
wire nut. Things do happen.

"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:51:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).

St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.

Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?

No.


Probably was a double switch that installed in a single gang box, they
used
a receptacle cover plate with one switch in each place where an outlet
would
normally be.


They had those back in '54?

There is only one hot wire running from the box to the ceiling
fixture. Can't imagine how/why another switched circuit
would've been crammed into the tiny work box.

Probably someone replaced it with a single switch or couldn't
find a double replacement. They are still available if you look. In Decora
style you can even get a triple switch, although wiring them must be
difficult and cramped.


Thanks, but this explanation doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller



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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:51:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).

St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.

Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?

No.


Probably was a double switch that installed in a single gang box, they
used
a receptacle cover plate with one switch in each place where an outlet
would
normally be.


They had those back in '54?

There is only one hot wire running from the box to the ceiling
fixture. Can't imagine how/why another switched circuit
would've been crammed into the tiny work box.

Probably someone replaced it with a single switch or couldn't
find a double replacement. They are still available if you look. In Decora
style you can even get a triple switch, although wiring them must be
difficult and cramped.


Thanks, but this explanation doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller

If there is a neutral in the box it seems likely that there was a
combination switch and receptacle or a combination switch and pilot light.
These combination devices to fit single gang boxes were definitely available
at the time your house was built and I believe probably 10 years or more
before then. Stripping in the middle of the lead and wire-nutting as you
described is not terribly unusual, nor is stripping in the middle and
fastening that section under a terminal screw and the end under another
screw, especially where space is limited as it would be with the combination
devices in a single box. It seems to me that the latter is most likely and
someone just squeezed the wire together and installed the wire nut for
insulation after removing the second device from the box.

Don Young
Started wiring houses in the 40's


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:17:50 -0500, "Don Young" wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 10:51:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"Puddin' Man" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:26:26 GMT, Bob wrote:

Puddin' Man wrote:
'allo,

I belong to a little brick bungalow in a midwest city, built in 1954.

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.

Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.

Just about anything could have been done in the past 53 years. Is this
midwest city anywhere near Chicago, where wiring is in conduit? If so,
you can check the other end of the run (the fixture box would be the
first place to check).

St. Louis.

From your description I would infer that it may
have at one time been the source feed for two switches in the box.

Single box. No room for another switch.

Are
the fan and light separately switched?

No.

Probably was a double switch that installed in a single gang box, they
used
a receptacle cover plate with one switch in each place where an outlet
would
normally be.


They had those back in '54?

There is only one hot wire running from the box to the ceiling
fixture. Can't imagine how/why another switched circuit
would've been crammed into the tiny work box.

Probably someone replaced it with a single switch or couldn't
find a double replacement. They are still available if you look. In Decora
style you can even get a triple switch, although wiring them must be
difficult and cramped.


Thanks, but this explanation doesn't seem to fit the circumstances.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller

If there is a neutral in the box it seems likely that there was a
combination switch and receptacle or a combination switch and pilot light.


Pilot light?

Mebbe they had the furnace in that 4 sq. inches as well? :-)
(Forgive me, I couldn't resist.)

These combination devices to fit single gang boxes were definitely available
at the time your house was built and I believe probably 10 years or more
before then. Stripping in the middle of the lead and wire-nutting as you
described is not terribly unusual, nor is stripping in the middle and
fastening that section under a terminal screw and the end under another
screw,


The black (HOT) wire?

especially where space is limited as it would be with the combination
devices in a single box. It seems to me that the latter is most likely and
someone just squeezed the wire together and installed the wire nut for
insulation after removing the second device from the box.


To my knowledge, 'twere a simple, simple little switch box for
a ceiling light fixture. Other wiring in the house is garden-
variety Simon-simple.

But anything is possible.

P

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller


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Default Extra wirenut in 1954 switchbox

According to Puddin' Man Pudding Dot Man At Gmail Dot Com:

It came with a single-gang box with a standard 2-position switch to
control a ceiling fan/light assembly.


Whilst replacing the switch, I noted the usual red and black wires.
One of the black wires was stripped about 1 " in the middle (where
the wire was not cut), kinked, and wire-nutted (nothing else in the
nut, just the kink). Both the strip and the wire nut serve no
purpose whatsoever that I can see.


Has anyone seen anything like this? If so, know why they did it?
Near all the old wiring in this tiny house is extremely simple
and predictable: worries po' me when I see something I can't
explain.


Another possibility:

At some point there may have been a combined switch/outlet device
(or a double switch), and that bare segment was a connection to the
outlet. Then, they replaced the device with a simple switch, and
needed to protect the bare spot.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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