Denuding the land
 

Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste

Denuding the land
 

Eigenvector wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste

Roundup is probably the best choice from what is available w/o an
applicators' license. It won't kill what it isn't applied to (that is,
it isn't soil residual).

It will certainly kill Bermuda but unless you get rid of _all_ traces of
Bermuda, being what it is, it'll soon be back from elsewhere. And, of
course, having had it, even if you kill all the current living, the seed
from previous is still around to germinate and start over again.

--

Denuding the land
 

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Eigenvector wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any
grasses and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard
and surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself
of all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and
rocks. But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I
have an abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste

Roundup is probably the best choice from what is available w/o an
applicators' license. It won't kill what it isn't applied to (that is, it
isn't soil residual).

It will certainly kill Bermuda but unless you get rid of _all_ traces of
Bermuda, being what it is, it'll soon be back from elsewhere. And, of
course, having had it, even if you kill all the current living, the seed
from previous is still around to germinate and start over again.

--

Well I can live with that. As long as I put down a nice heavy black plastic
sheet over the dirt and pile rocks on top I can take out any Bermuda grass
stringers by hand. That part the really ****es me off about weeds is that
they grow so nicely in the garden, under the eaves, in the bushes, but they
don't seem to grow in the lawn to fill in those dead spots that I
perennially have.

Denuding the land
 

Eigenvector wrote:
....

...That part the really ****es me off about weeds is that
they grow so nicely in the garden, under the eaves, in the bushes, but they
don't seem to grow in the lawn to fill in those dead spots that I
perennially have.

That's undoubtedly because those dead spots have something locally wrong
with them -- there's a rock just underneath the surface, a bunch of clay
left over from the basement dig, too acidic/basic, any number of other
things. If it's significant, find the problem(1) and fix it and you'll
have weeds galore! :)

(1) To adequately determine what the problem really is might entail a
soil sample if a little digging doesn't uncover an obvious cause...

--

Denuding the land
 

"dpb" wrote in message ...
Eigenvector wrote:
...

...That part the really ****es me off about weeds is that they grow so
nicely in the garden, under the eaves, in the bushes, but they don't seem
to grow in the lawn to fill in those dead spots that I perennially have.

That's undoubtedly because those dead spots have something locally wrong
with them -- there's a rock just underneath the surface, a bunch of clay
left over from the basement dig, too acidic/basic, any number of other
things. If it's significant, find the problem(1) and fix it and you'll
have weeds galore! :)

(1) To adequately determine what the problem really is might entail a soil
sample if a little digging doesn't uncover an obvious cause...

--

Ehh, I already know the answer, its just implementing it is more expensive
than bitching and moaning about it.

Rototilling the entire front lawn would be more than I want to do just quite
yet.

Denuding the land
 

Eigenvector wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
Eigenvector wrote:
...

...That part the really ****es me off about weeds is that they grow so
nicely in the garden, under the eaves, in the bushes, but they don't seem
to grow in the lawn to fill in those dead spots that I perennially have.
That's undoubtedly because those dead spots have something locally wrong
with them -- there's a rock just underneath the surface, a bunch of clay
left over from the basement dig, too acidic/basic, any number of other
things. If it's significant, find the problem(1) and fix it and you'll
have weeds galore! :)

(1) To adequately determine what the problem really is might entail a soil
sample if a little digging doesn't uncover an obvious cause...

--

Ehh, I already know the answer, its just implementing it is more expensive
than bitching and moaning about it.

:)

Rototilling the entire front lawn would be more than I want to do just quite
yet.

Surely that wouldn't be necessary??? Unless it's really bad I'd think
working on a spot at a time would be the trick and then maybe just rent
a slit seeder and overseed some fall.

Unless, of course, the intent would be to try to eliminate the Bermuda
although unless your neighbors do the same thing at the same time its
futile...

--

Denuding the land
 

dpb wrote:

{... rototilling entire lawn/yard should be unnecessary...}

Unless, of course, the intent would be to try to eliminate the Bermuda
although unless your neighbors do the same thing at the same time its
futile...

Of course, even tilling won't kill the Bermuda tillers -- they'll just
get chopped up and regenerate. Only way to eliminate Bermuda entirely
is chemically over a long period of time (like a full year) or cart off
the infected topsoil. There is no practical way to eliminate all the
root system by tilling and even when spraying as soon as the existing
dies, there will be new coming from existing seed and that seed remains
viable for years.

It's a bugger to eliminate. Bindweed is easier I think... :(

--

Denuding the land
 

"dpb" wrote in message ...
dpb wrote:

{... rototilling entire lawn/yard should be unnecessary...}

Unless, of course, the intent would be to try to eliminate the Bermuda
although unless your neighbors do the same thing at the same time its
futile...

Of course, even tilling won't kill the Bermuda tillers -- they'll just get
chopped up and regenerate. Only way to eliminate Bermuda entirely is
chemically over a long period of time (like a full year) or cart off the
infected topsoil. There is no practical way to eliminate all the root
system by tilling and even when spraying as soon as the existing dies,
there will be new coming from existing seed and that seed remains viable
for years.

It's a bugger to eliminate. Bindweed is easier I think... :(

--

Well I'm not worried about Bermuda grass in my lawn, so long as its greenish
and doesn't have yellow flowers coming out of it I'm fine. I want to kill
it around my foundation, but that's for other reasons. But it is a bitch to
pull out of flower beds, pull one green shoot and before you know it you're
pulling up this 2 foot long root connected to another and another and pretty
soon your garden is toast.

Denuding the land
 

Eigenvector wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
dpb wrote:

{... rototilling entire lawn/yard should be unnecessary...}

Unless, of course, the intent would be to try to eliminate the Bermuda
although unless your neighbors do the same thing at the same time its
futile...
Of course, even tilling won't kill the Bermuda tillers -- they'll just get
chopped up and regenerate. Only way to eliminate Bermuda entirely is
chemically over a long period of time (like a full year) or cart off the
infected topsoil. There is no practical way to eliminate all the root
system by tilling and even when spraying as soon as the existing dies,
there will be new coming from existing seed and that seed remains viable
for years.

It's a bugger to eliminate. Bindweed is easier I think... :(

--

Well I'm not worried about Bermuda grass in my lawn, so long as its greenish
and doesn't have yellow flowers coming out of it I'm fine. I want to kill
it around my foundation, but that's for other reasons. But it is a bitch to
pull out of flower beds, pull one green shoot and before you know it you're
pulling up this 2 foot long root connected to another and another and pretty
soon your garden is toast.

Not telling me anything I don't know... :) :( It's the primary lawn
here that was put in in the 30s or maybe even earlier. Of course, here
where it's hot and dry, it does manage to grow where much else doesn't.
What I don't understand is why they didn't use the native buffalo
grass which is a jointed grass similar in many ways to Bermuda except
slower growing and not as aggresively annoying and much easier to dig out...

About all that is even reasonably effective is, once you've gotten it
cleaned out of a garden area is a deep border edging--but it has to be
deep. The overland tillers aren't too tough if you get them before they
fully root and joint again, but what comes from underground is, as you
say, a pita.

BTW, the black plastic on it's own won't be enough--it'll just run under
it and come out the other side. I've got it through the cracks between
sill plates and foundations, cracks in basement walls, anywhere there's
an opening...

--

Denuding the land
 

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:33:47 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions

Why is this called denuding? Shouldn't it be called nuding, and then
denuding would be the opposite?

As in, "I bought the ship-wrecked and rescued children clothes in
order to denude them."

without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste

Denuding the land
 

On Jun 23, 1:33 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste


I don't know what will kill "everything" but they stuff they use on
corn fields sure kills everything except corn. So you might use
something like that, unless you're being overrun by corn.

That stuff is also pretty short lived so you can plant something else
in the field the next year.

Denuding the land
 

dpb wrote:

One last thing on controlling Bermuda -- the most effective is shade --
it won't tolerate longterm shade so if you can arrange for that it will
make it easier. Of course, not much help for those things that need
sun, but just a point since you're seeming to be fighting the battle...

--

Denuding the land
 

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:45:50 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:



Well I can live with that. As long as I put down a nice heavy black plastic
sheet over the dirt and pile rocks on top I can take out any Bermuda grass
stringers by hand. That part the really ****es me off about weeds is that
they grow so nicely in the garden, under the eaves, in the bushes, but they
don't seem to grow in the lawn to fill in those dead spots that I
perennially have.

My weeds have filled in my whole lawn. I guess I have better weeds.

Denuding the land
 

roundup.

--
Steve Barker







"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any
grasses and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard
and surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself
of all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and
rocks. But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I
have an abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste

Denuding the land
 

Pat wrote:
....

I don't know what will kill "everything" but they stuff they use on
corn fields sure kills everything except corn. So you might use
something like that, unless you're being overrun by corn.
....

Except for 2,4-D (broadleaf only) and Roundup (generically, glyphosate)
it's virtually all others are restricted-use herbicides and what is used
is almost always a combination of several.

For OP, Roundup is the choice...possibly add a little 2,4-D but the
other broadleaf he mentions such as the dandy-lions are pretty easy. Of
course, dandelions _in_ the yard where he wants to keep the grass is
2,4-D, _not_ Roundup. (And, he'll probably get some browning of the
Bermuda, but it won't kill it).

--

Denuding the land
 

Eigenvector wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste


Black plastic will work, but there is no need to kill everything. If
the only reason for killing stuff is to till, it will still be tough
with remaining roots/sod. Cut the grass and put your fabric and rock on
top. It isn't going to grow through the fabric and rock.

Denuding the land
 

Norminn wrote:
Eigenvector wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any
grasses and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my
yard and surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid
myself of all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy
fabric and rocks. But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass
(of which I have an abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard
to waste

Black plastic will work, but there is no need to kill everything. If
the only reason for killing stuff is to till, it will still be tough
with remaining roots/sod. Cut the grass and put your fabric and rock on
top. It isn't going to grow through the fabric and rock.

You apparently haven't tried to kill/control a fully-established Bermuda
problem, then... :)

It will simply continue to tiller underneath the plastic/fabric and come
out wherever the edges are. It's truly evil stuff where it isn't wanted. :(

--

Denuding the land
 

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:40:11 GMT, Norminn
wrote:

Eigenvector wrote:
Is there an herbicide, LEGALLY available, that will utterly kill any grasses
and dandilions without poisioning the waterfoul or turn my yard and
surrounding countryside into a desert wasteland?

I'd like to spray a 18" strip around my house's foundation to rid myself of
all vegetation BEFORE I rototill it up and put down heavy fabric and rocks.
But I fear that anything that can kill bermuda grass (of which I have an
abundance) and rabbit brush will also lay my yard to waste


Black plastic will work, but there is no need to kill everything. If
the only reason for killing stuff is to till, it will still be tough
with remaining roots/sod. Cut the grass and put your fabric and rock on
top. It isn't going to grow through the fabric and rock.

Hah, hah, hah, hah, hah!

Wait and see!

Been there.

Denuding the land
 

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:39:54 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:



Ehh, I already know the answer, its just implementing it is more expensive
than bitching and moaning about it.

Rototilling the entire front lawn would be more than I want to do just quite
yet.

I thought we just had another thread where someone said rototilling
wasn't for yards, it was for gardens.

He said that raking or scraping or something was for grass.

P&M