There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for the 3 years
I kept it and even though the refrigeration system had 2 more years left on
its warranty I decided I was tired of carrying it back to sears repair dept
and this time, after it broke, I bought a Whirlpool. So far so good. Some
people complain that the Whirlpool is noisy but I believe it is about the
same noise level as the Kenmore. Another complaint is connecting a drainage
hose. I agree that they did not leave much clearance for the attachment but
I was able to attach a hose without problems. Now the bad news is I just
read that Whirlpool is closing their dehumidifier factory (newspaper
article). So if you are considering one you might want to grab it because
they may be moving production off shore.

Art wrote:

There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:


outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26 cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day. After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...erformance.pdf

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.

On Jun 19, 6:01 am, wrote:
Art wrote:
There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26 cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day. After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...t%20performanc...

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

Nick has a "thing" for this gadget and is rehashing a "discussion" we had last
winter. He exaggerates the "badness" of dehumidifiers and IMO, exaggerates the
goodness of his pet gadget.

I've measured my mid-quality GE dehumidifier using the equipment and techniques
described he

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Feel free to download and use my spreadsheet. Bottom line, measuring long term from
11/04/06 to 04/23/07, my dehumidifier used 2.03 KWH per day or about 15 cents' worth
of power at our rate. The watt-hour meter is still connected and come November, I'll
have a year's worth of data. I suspect that Nick's gadget will operate in the same
ballpark of energy consumption. Meanwhile, my basement is both cool AND precisely
controlled to 50% humidity. Me and my fairly large library love it.

There are more efficient dehumidifers available but as I correctly anticipated, the
savings would take a lifetime to make up the difference in costs of the machines.

John

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:11:17 -0700, carneyke wrote:

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.

On Jun 19, 6:01 am, wrote:
Art wrote:
There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26 cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day. After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...t%20performanc...

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.

Are you all distinguishing between an indoor dehumidifier and an A/C?
An indoor dehumidifier provides *net heat* to the space while dehumidifying,
and an A/C cools, while providing the same (I think)dehumidification.

I use both in my shop.
Summer: A crappy Amana portable A/C, venting out of a hole in the wall,
about 850 watts, and
Winter: a brandX dehumidifier from Sam's/Costco, about 600 watts.
Both produce prodigious amounts of water--the Amana, about 7,000 btu at a
miserable 8.5 EER, cranks out about 5 gals/day, moderately humid weather.

I wonder if a 40 W system could do that.

An indoor dehumidifier is basically window A/C brought inside, and rigged in
such a way that it doesn't freeze up. I've tried a regular window A/C as an
indoor dehumidifer, and it worked, but froze.
Also, A/C's cycle on temp, dehumidifiers cycle on, well, humidity. I have a
broke dehumidifier, and I'm thinking of scavenging the humidity sensor and
wiring it to the A/C--if that makes sense.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Neon John" wrote in message
...
Nick has a "thing" for this gadget and is rehashing a "discussion" we had
last
winter. He exaggerates the "badness" of dehumidifiers and IMO,
exaggerates the
goodness of his pet gadget.

I've measured my mid-quality GE dehumidifier using the equipment and
techniques
described he

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Feel free to download and use my spreadsheet. Bottom line, measuring long
term from
11/04/06 to 04/23/07, my dehumidifier used 2.03 KWH per day or about 15
cents' worth
of power at our rate. The watt-hour meter is still connected and come
November, I'll
have a year's worth of data. I suspect that Nick's gadget will operate in
the same
ballpark of energy consumption. Meanwhile, my basement is both cool AND
precisely
controlled to 50% humidity. Me and my fairly large library love it.

There are more efficient dehumidifers available but as I correctly
anticipated, the
savings would take a lifetime to make up the difference in costs of the
machines.

John

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:11:17 -0700, carneyke
wrote:

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.

On Jun 19, 6:01 am, wrote:
Art wrote:
There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist
air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26
cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day. After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...t%20performanc...

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.

On Jun 19, 9:48 pm, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:
Are you all distinguishing between an indoor dehumidifier and an A/C?
An indoor dehumidifier provides *net heat* to the space while dehumidifying,
and an A/C cools, while providing the same (I think)dehumidification.

I use both in my shop.
Summer: A crappy Amana portable A/C, venting out of a hole in the wall,
about 850 watts, and
Winter: a brandX dehumidifier from Sam's/Costco, about 600 watts.
Both produce prodigious amounts of water--the Amana, about 7,000 btu at a
miserable 8.5 EER, cranks out about 5 gals/day, moderately humid weather.

I wonder if a 40 W system could do that.

An indoor dehumidifier is basically window A/C brought inside, and rigged in
such a way that it doesn't freeze up. I've tried a regular window A/C as an
indoor dehumidifer, and it worked, but froze.
Also, A/C's cycle on temp, dehumidifiers cycle on, well, humidity. I have a
broke dehumidifier, and I'm thinking of scavenging the humidity sensor and
wiring it to the A/C--if that makes sense.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Neon John" wrote in message

...



Nick has a "thing" for this gadget and is rehashing a "discussion" we had
last
winter. He exaggerates the "badness" of dehumidifiers and IMO,
exaggerates the
goodness of his pet gadget.

I've measured my mid-quality GE dehumidifier using the equipment and
techniques
described he

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Feel free to download and use my spreadsheet. Bottom line, measuring long
term from
11/04/06 to 04/23/07, my dehumidifier used 2.03 KWH per day or about 15
cents' worth
of power at our rate. The watt-hour meter is still connected and come
November, I'll
have a year's worth of data. I suspect that Nick's gadget will operate in
the same
ballpark of energy consumption. Meanwhile, my basement is both cool AND
precisely
controlled to 50% humidity. Me and my fairly large library love it.

There are more efficient dehumidifers available but as I correctly
anticipated, the
savings would take a lifetime to make up the difference in costs of the
machines.

John

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:11:17 -0700, carneyke
wrote:

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.

On Jun 19, 6:01 am, wrote:
Art wrote:
There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist
air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26
cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day. After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...t%20performanc....

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com-- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My dehumidifier does "throw" heat while running. It is in my basement
and there are no windows that would support an AC unit. I believe if I
had to do it again, a window unit would be the best of both worlds. I
would have to modify a casemount window to accomodate an AC unit.

Neon John wrote:

... I suspect that Nick's gadget will operate in the same ballpark
of energy consumption.

This one?

... The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems to do
the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

Where is the energy consumed? :-)

Nick

Proctologically Violated©® wrote:

... the Amana, about 7,000 btu at a miserable 8.5 EER, cranks out about
5 gals/day, moderately humid weather.

I wonder if a 40 W system could do that.

Sure, with dry outdoor air, but this version uses no electrical power:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

And this version would only require sun, vs dry outdoor air:

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

Nick

carneyke wrote:

... The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic is,
it would make the basement hot.

The FSEC attic is only hot during the day, when it evaporates water
from the dessicant.

Nick

"carneyke" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jun 19, 9:48 pm, "Proctologically Violated©®"
wrote:
Are you all distinguishing between an indoor dehumidifier and an A/C?
An indoor dehumidifier provides *net heat* to the space while
dehumidifying,
and an A/C cools, while providing the same (I think)dehumidification.

I use both in my shop.
Summer: A crappy Amana portable A/C, venting out of a hole in the wall,
about 850 watts, and
Winter: a brandX dehumidifier from Sam's/Costco, about 600 watts.
Both produce prodigious amounts of water--the Amana, about 7,000 btu at a
miserable 8.5 EER, cranks out about 5 gals/day, moderately humid weather.

I wonder if a 40 W system could do that.

An indoor dehumidifier is basically window A/C brought inside, and rigged
in
such a way that it doesn't freeze up. I've tried a regular window A/C as
an
indoor dehumidifer, and it worked, but froze.
Also, A/C's cycle on temp, dehumidifiers cycle on, well, humidity. I have
a
broke dehumidifier, and I'm thinking of scavenging the humidity sensor and
wiring it to the A/C--if that makes sense.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"Neon John" wrote in message

...



Nick has a "thing" for this gadget and is rehashing a "discussion" we
had
last
winter. He exaggerates the "badness" of dehumidifiers and IMO,
exaggerates the
goodness of his pet gadget.

I've measured my mid-quality GE dehumidifier using the equipment and
techniques
described he

http://www.neon-john.com/Misc/Energy_Audit.htm

Feel free to download and use my spreadsheet. Bottom line, measuring
long
term from
11/04/06 to 04/23/07, my dehumidifier used 2.03 KWH per day or about 15
cents' worth
of power at our rate. The watt-hour meter is still connected and come
November, I'll
have a year's worth of data. I suspect that Nick's gadget will operate
in
the same
ballpark of energy consumption. Meanwhile, my basement is both cool AND
precisely
controlled to 50% humidity. Me and my fairly large library love it.

There are more efficient dehumidifers available but as I correctly
anticipated, the
savings would take a lifetime to make up the difference in costs of the
machines.

John

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:11:17 -0700, carneyke
wrote:

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.

On Jun 19, 6:01 am, wrote:
Art wrote:
There have been lots of posts about how crappy the Kenmore 70 pint
dehumidifiers have turned out to be. Mine broke every year for
the 3 years I kept it...

And they use lots of electrical energy. A Smart Vent (40 watts max)
would probably last longer. It has an electronic circuit that turns
on 2 small fans whenever the dew point of outdoor air is less than
the dew point of indoor air, ie the absolute humidity of the outdoor
air is lower. The Zomeworks H2 ventilator for battery boxes seems
to do the same thing, something like this, viewed in a fixed font:

outdoors up indoors

---------------
-- moist air
----------------------
| -- dry air
| -------------------
| |
| | ---------------
| | heat exchanger
| |
| | down
| |
| | dip tube

as described in Steve Baer's ASES 2004 Humidity Chimneys paper. Moist
air
is less dense than dry air, at the same temperature (hence the heat
exchanger.) Steve says a 1% moisture difference with a 2.5 foot height
difference (hence the dip tube) can make 75 feet per minute of air
flow,
so a 6" pipe with an 8' height might make Pi(3/12)^2sqrt(8/2.5)75 = 26
cfm
flow and remove about 26x60x0.075x0.01x24h = 28 pints per day of water
from a basement, in dry weather, with a concentric pipe heat exchange
chimney inside the house, from the first floor ceiling to the
basement.

The external "dip tube" might be a box with a transparent south side
and 150 Tyvek bags filled with desiccant clay, which can absorb 28%
of their weight in water, ie 53 pints:

http://www.uline.com/ProductDetail.a...-1606&ref=1006

The Florida Solar Energy Center puts clay bags on wire racks in an
attic
with a tin roof which heats up and dries them out during the day.
After
they cool, at night, they remove moisture from house air that
circulates
up through the attic. Here's some Desi-Pak (tm) tech info:

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...t%20performanc...

Graph 4 shows Desi-Paks can absorb 12% of their weight in 10 hours
at 30C and 60% RH, ie 2.3 pints per hour for the 189 pound collection
above. This rises with more airflow or thinner bags. Graph 3 says
they can absorb 8% in 100 hours at 25C and 10% RH, ie 0.15 pints
per hour for 189 pounds.

Nick

--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com-- best little blog on the net!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Remember, amateurs made the Ark, professionals made the Titanic.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My dehumidifier does "throw" heat while running. It is in my basement
and there are no windows that would support an AC unit. I believe if I
had to do it again, a window unit would be the best of both worlds. I
would have to modify a casemount window to accomodate an AC unit.
==========================

Or get a mini-split.
They have them for as little as $500/9,000 BTU units, 10-11 EER. You'll
need a guy w/ A/C gauges etc to connect/charge the condensor to the coil.
Many of these mini's also have heatpump function.

Or the portable Amana's, etc, about $350 now. If demudification is your
primary concern, you get moderate A/C for free!
Beats heat in the summer.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:11:17 -0700, carneyke
wrote:

I have a Sears dehumifier that is 20 years old, it had the fan go once
($100 fan). The problem I see with drawing hot dry air from an attic
is, it would make the basement hot. I enjoy my cool / semi dry
basement because of the dehumifier. I can't see desicant doing the job
a dehumifier does..... It may work but I doubt it would be an easy
install.


My current dehumidifier is well over 20 years old - mabee even 30. The
fan went bad a few years ago and I got one at a surplus shop for $5.
I would never do without one here in Southern Ontario in the summer.

We use one in the office too, next to the copier, to prevent the paper
from getting "soggy" and jamming all the time. Threw out a 30 year old
one that was getting noisy again last fall, now I need to get another
one.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Or get a mini-split.
They have them for as little as $500/9,000 BTU units, 10-11 EER. You'll
need a guy w/ A/C gauges etc to connect/charge the condensor to the coil.
Many of these mini's also have heatpump function.


I got a 12,000 btu mini-split on eBay last summer and installed it myself. Many
are precharged and as long as the line lengths work for you, can be installed
easily. I'm very happy with it, and with careful positioning it does almost all
of my 1st floor (I have a fairly open plan home).

I had to install custom line lengths, so I needed to cut and re-flare the line
sets. I do have a vacuum pump and evacuated and leak-checked my lines, although
the procedure that is outlined in the installation manual just used a timed
blow-down based on the length of the line.

--
Dennis

Interesting.
Where did you get your A/C tools from? Straightforward to use?

I thought the lines had to be hard brazed/soldered.
Isn't flaring asking for trouble?

I would love to be able to do this myself. Really want to put the whole
house on a bunch of minisplits. Got central A/C w/ essentially zero zoning,
and it's killing me.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs

"DT" wrote in message
news:48ydnYXjDLrYGefbnZ2dnUVZ_uPinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...

Or get a mini-split.
They have them for as little as $500/9,000 BTU units, 10-11 EER. You'll
need a guy w/ A/C gauges etc to connect/charge the condensor to the coil.
Many of these mini's also have heatpump function.


I got a 12,000 btu mini-split on eBay last summer and installed it myself.
Many
are precharged and as long as the line lengths work for you, can be
installed
easily. I'm very happy with it, and with careful positioning it does
almost all
of my 1st floor (I have a fairly open plan home).

I had to install custom line lengths, so I needed to cut and re-flare the
line
sets. I do have a vacuum pump and evacuated and leak-checked my lines,
although
the procedure that is outlined in the installation manual just used a
timed
blow-down based on the length of the line.

--
Dennis

In article ,
says...

Interesting.
Where did you get your A/C tools from? Straightforward to use?

I thought the lines had to be hard brazed/soldered.
Isn't flaring asking for trouble?

I would love to be able to do this myself. Really want to put the whole
house on a bunch of minisplits. Got central A/C w/ essentially zero zoning,
and it's killing me.



Flared line sets are the norm for mini-splits, every one I looked at came that
way. The higher priced ones may have dry-break quick connects, although the
flared sets are also called 'quick connect' by many sellers so you really need
to ask questions about ones you are interested in. Mine has been running a year
and a half, fine so far, the brand name is Celiera.

I can't see any differences between the different units I was shopping for. The
wall units are identical, they all use compressors from the same 1 or 2
manufacturers, the controls work the same, etc. The refrigerant is stored in
the outdoor unit, and will purge and fill a specified maximum line length
(usually 24 feet or so), if you need longer lines, you will need a pro to fill
it and add more for any of the units.

You don't need any HVAC tools if you are willing to go with the
standard installation method. You hook up the lines, look your line length up
in a chart, set the valves in a certain sequence and finally purge the line-set
and indoor unit by opening the shut off valve a quarter turn for X number of
seconds. This is calculated to purge out the air, but shut off just as the
refrigerant comes out.

Not a precise method in my mind (Hell, I'm not even sure if it's legal anymore,
but that's the factory method) so I evacuated everything and filled into the
evacuated system. I would suggest that is always a *better* way to go, since
then you can be assured the flares are OK if they hold vacuum. I do have a
lot of experience with flaring lines for a variety of exotic fluids so I am
pretty confident with it. You could also add Voishan washers under the flares
if you wanted, but soft copper seals quite well.

My vacuum pump is just a small Kinney lab pump, but HVAC pumps are readily
available and are not too expensive. Many people use salvaged refigerator
compressors for occasional HVAC use. The refrigerant on my unit uses the same
fittings as R12, standard 1/4" flare, so it is easy to hook up. The new higher
SEER may use a different fitting, they have a different refrigerant.

Dennis