I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James

James wrote:
I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

snip

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James

Your 18" post hole seems way too shallow for a fence. Better do some
more research on local conditions and methods and then worry about
concrete mix. Typically, some metal fence posts are 7' tall and 3'
into the ground. For a relatively short fence 2' would be a good
choice. YMMV

Joe

Joe wrote:
James wrote:
I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
posts will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18
inches deep, and set the posts into concrete.

snip

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James

Your 18" post hole seems way too shallow for a fence. Better do some
more research on local conditions and methods and then worry about
concrete mix. Typically, some metal fence posts are 7' tall and 3'
into the ground. For a relatively short fence 2' would be a good
choice. YMMV

Joe

True enough Joe. He didn't say where he lives, or frost considerations.

Let's please stick with the concrete question.... these posts will be 18
inches into the ground, and about 40 inches OUT of the ground. Split rails
will be placed across the posts. This is a simple three rail fence, not a
conventional fence with 6 foot posts.

Perhaps I led you wrong on the facts.

Thanks

James

James wrote:
Let's please stick with the concrete question.... these posts will be 18
inches into the ground, and about 40 inches OUT of the ground. Split rails
will be placed across the posts. This is a simple three rail fence, not a
conventional fence with 6 foot posts.

Perhaps I led you wrong on the facts.


Still too short in the ground, concrete or no concrete...

In a few years they'll be laying over.

--

James wrote:
I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James



Just plain sand works great. The only posts that should be set in
concrete are the ones that need to support a gate.

--
Art

Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.

thanks !!


James

"Art" wrote in message
...
James wrote:
I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I
have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount
of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James



Just plain sand works great. The only posts that should be set in concrete
are the ones that need to support a gate.

I would agree. But any set in concrete should not be set completely in
concrete- a couple inches of gravel in bottom, then post, then 1/3 or so of
the hole with tamped gravel, then concrete. Give the water a place to go,
instead of bottom of post always being wet. Locust takes awhile to rot, but
anything rots eventually.

aem sends...

On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, "James" wrote:
Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.

The best concrete to set posts is none. A couple inches of gravel in
the bottom and ALL the dirt back in the hole is the "proper" method.

And 18" is too shallow; a waste of, time, effort, money -and- concrete
if you're still set on using it. 30" is minimum and probably code,
and 36" is better.

Locust is the best choice for the posts, but you'd be better off
setting them on fire rather than in concrete. Nothing lasts forever,
try digging out a post set in concrete. By the time you're finished
you'll have changed your mind, if you live through it.

The concrete mix doesn't matter, any one will rot your posts as well
as another.
-----

- gpsman

On Jun 15, 9:57 pm, gpsman wrote:
On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, "James" wrote:

Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.

The best concrete to set posts is none. A couple inches of gravel in
the bottom and ALL the dirt back in the hole is the "proper" method.

And 18" is too shallow; a waste of, time, effort, money -and- concrete
if you're still set on using it. 30" is minimum and probably code,
and 36" is better.

Locust is the best choice for the posts, but you'd be better off
setting them on fire rather than in concrete. Nothing lasts forever,
try digging out a post set in concrete. By the time you're finished
you'll have changed your mind, if you live through it.

The concrete mix doesn't matter, any one will rot your posts as well
as another.
-----

- gpsman

I guess I will at least answer your question -

Most big home centers carry "post-set" concrete. You dig the hole,
put the post in (with space around it) fill the space around the post
with dry mix, add water, and mix it up by pushing a pc of rebar up and
down in the "soup". Sets quickly, works fine and is very convenient.

JK

[flup set to a.h.l.g.]

James said:

Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.


Just curious, but when the wood rots away, how will you replace it? And,
you've been told (more than once) that the depth you've chosen isn't deep
enough, yet you insist on not heeding advice. You seem to have the answers,
so which one would you prefer to be told about the concrete?

--

Eggs

..sig not found. (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?

"James" wrote in message
...

I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James



TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence.
Wood or steel posts.

Guess answers for this are kinda like gardening, depends on the
conditions... Sandy soil, clay, swamp, gravel, or rocky in your case.

I pre-mixed, wetter than usual, the concrete prior to pouring in the hole
with the post. Used rocks to stabilize the post during the pour, then fine
tuned the plumb after the pour. Set the corners first.
Dave

I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

If your posts are dimensional (4x4 or 6x6) the following process
worked well for me. If your posts are roundish, then simply set them
in the holes with a few inches of gravel in the bottom, and use
quickcrete (regular or quick setting - it's up to you.) that has been
mixed to a pretty thick consistency. Level the post in all directions
and cross-brace for 24 hours before adding attachments.


If using dimentional lumber, the way I did the posts all around my
house, is to:
1. String a centerline along the length of the fence run.
2. Dig the hole to desired depth (in my case, 24").
3. Insert 10" sonnet tube that has been cut to desired length/height.
4. Backfill, leveling the tube along the way.
5. Mix quickcrete (regular or quick setting - It's up to you.)
6. Fill the tube with mixed quickcrete.
7. Set post anchor according to the centerline.
8. After concrete is dry, test fit posts, mark holes, drill holes, and
bolt posts into post anchors.

The fence is now over 14 years old. No rot, no leaning.

Dave wrote:

TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence...

We might make a fence with no post holes, just stakes in the ground
for cables. Or use T-posts with diagonal corner bracing.

Nick

"Big_Jake" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip

I guess I will at least answer your question -

Most big home centers carry "post-set" concrete. You dig the
hole,
put the post in (with space around it) fill the space around the
post
with dry mix, add water, and mix it up by pushing a pc of rebar up
and
down in the "soup". Sets quickly, works fine and is very
convenient.

JK

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree about putting dry mix in the
hole.
I have seen this done, but I have never seen it work well - fences
were always leaning within 3 or 4 months. It is not possible to
mix the concrete in the hole - there will always be dry pockets no
matter how much poking and prodding is done.

Mix your concrete in a wheelbarrow and pour it into the hole.

Bob-tx

"James" wrote in message
...

I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James



You can just pour dry mix around the post.if you wish add a little water on
top to speed setting.In a few days it will be hard, meanwhile the dry mix
will hold the post in place.
Be aware the posts will need to be replaced eventually ,then you will have
to deal with the concrete.

Be aware the posts will need to be replaced eventually ,then you will have
to deal with the concrete.- Hide quoted text -



yeah and they fail faster in concrete.

but as a friend says its your back

OP can think about this as he digs up his rotted posts and concrete

James wrote:
Nope, sorry. Gonna use concrete. My question relates to the best
concrete, and the method to plant them.

thanks !!


James


There is no "best". The kind of concrete is irrelevant. As long as it is
mixed properly any concrete will do what you want.

--
Art

There is no "best". The kind of concrete is irrelevant. As long as it is
mixed properly any concrete will do what you want.


If OP INSITS on concreting them in secure them in place, tied off with
ropes or something, use dry mix its more convenient, leave set tied up
a week or so flood area a couple times, so its all hardened

I pre-mixed, wetter than usual,

Why wetter then usual?

wrote in message
ups.com...

Be aware the posts will need to be replaced eventually ,then you will
have
to deal with the concrete.- Hide quoted text -



yeah and they fail faster in concrete.

but as a friend says its your back

OP can think about this as he digs up his rotted posts and concrete


the best idea I've seen was in England where the entire post was concrete
with slots to put wooden rails in.It was very nice looking and very durable.

"James" wrote in message
...

I am building a split-rail fence out of locust rails and posts. The
posts
will be set about 8 feet apart. I plan to dig postholes about 18 inches
deep, and set the posts into concrete.

What is the best method, and type of concrete ? My thinking was to use
Quickcrete fast-setting concrete. With similar things in the past, I have
mixed the concrete with water, and poured the mix in and around the post.
But, it seems that I have heard that other folks just pour the dry power
in
the hole around the post, and allow the moisture in the surrounding soil
to
harden the mix. Others pour in dry, and then just add a modest amount of
water in the hole.

What is the preferred method ??

Thanks for any advice on this !!

James



reply not cross posted!

Locust is a good hard wood but is not treated.

For a simple fence like this I would simply tamp the earth back around the
post or buy a load of DGA roadfill (mixed rock from 3/4" stones to dust)
which once watered in packs very tightly.

If you feel you must use concrete, fill the hole about 1/3 full of water and
pour the dry mix in, poke at it with a stick to insure that all get wet.
This will make a low grade concrete that can be broken when replacing a post
in a few years.


Colbyt

Colbyt wrote:
....

Locust is a good hard wood but is not treated.

Black locust will last longer than most treated...other than Osage
orange and a couple others, there's nothing better for posts (other than
being hard as blazes to drive a nail or staple in, of course).

....

...concrete that can be broken when replacing a post in a few years.

If they're locust, it'll probably be 20+, anyway...but concrete probably
will shorten life some, but I have no experience w/ that to judge
relative to w/o. Have locust line posts that are probably at least 50
yrs old and still solid. It is, however, a fairly dry climate...

--

"Ook" Ook Don't send me any freakin' spam at zootal dot com delete the
Don't send me any freakin' spam wrote in message
...

I pre-mixed, wetter than usual,

Why wetter then usual?


If you hadn't deleted the reason, which is in my previous reply, I could
have pointed it out to you. You only scoped one sentence, actually 1/2, and
presented a question to that.
Dave

Yeah, the Locust will last up to 100 years on their own, and maybe shorten
their life down to 75 if I set them in concrete. I am already past 60, so
that doesn't upset me too much.

James

Dave wrote:


TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil. Only a
rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it. 18" is
typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture fence.
Wood or steel posts.

Guess answers for this are kinda like gardening, depends on the
conditions... Sandy soil, clay, swamp, gravel, or rocky in your case.

I pre-mixed, wetter than usual, the concrete prior to pouring in the hole
with the post. Used rocks to stabilize the post during the pour, then fine
tuned the plumb after the pour. Set the corners first.
Dave



Why "wetter than usual"?

--
Art

"Art" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:


TX hill country. Fractured limestone is immediately below the soil.
Only a rock bar and alot of sweat, or, a diamond tipped auger can cut it.
18" is typical depth for corner and tensioning posts on typical pasture
fence. Wood or steel posts.

Guess answers for this are kinda like gardening, depends on the
conditions... Sandy soil, clay, swamp, gravel, or rocky in your case.

I pre-mixed, wetter than usual, the concrete prior to pouring in the hole
with the post. Used rocks to stabilize the post during the pour, then
fine tuned the plumb after the pour. Set the corners first.
Dave

Why "wetter than usual"?

--
Art

Because I used rocks inside the holes to stabilize the posts before the
pour. Wetter concrete assured me I had complete concrete saturation around
and under those rocks. No cavitation due to too dry a mix for that
situation. I used the inverted mushroom hole type. No gravel on bottom.

Stabilized bottom with suitably sized rocks, then top allowing at least 2"
above that topmost rock to concrete surface. Used level for plumb both
ways.

After the pour, I re-checked plumb and made minor adjustments if needed.

I did the tensioning posts similarly, except, I used a 3/4" offset
stringline for alignment with corners bottom and top. Stringline used for
rough, removed, then installed again after pour for final alignment. Of
course, the 90 degree opposite direction plumb was with a level.

A few neighbors in the area said to go with 5000 psi bagged concrete instead
of the 3000 psi version. They said they had no cracking problems with it
over time. Makes sense as sometimes 2 feet or more of the limestone rocks
will displace when using a rock pick or auger at the surface. Leaving
bigger area (hole) at surface to pour. Can't be helped. So, I used that
instead.
Dave