Any electric gurus? Just had a new roof put on. The roofers said the
vent that housed my thermostatically-controlled attic fan was about
shot and should be replaced -- it was only 37 years old.

So, ended up with a whole new unit. Of course, it was up to me to
rewire the beast.

From the house is a romex cable with black, red, white and green 12
AWG.

The old fan was hooked up black to thermostat. White to White and
green to box ground clip, with the red wire taped over inside the box.

I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.

It has been fairly cool with outside temps hitting 70, so with the fan
thermo at 90, it hasn't kicked on. I did spend about 5-10 minutes
after the install with the thermo dialed down to 60 degrees, but the
fan didn't kick-on then, but I had to dash, so dialed it back up to 90
before departing the attic.

Maybe I am being a bit paranoid, but I am thinking it's not
working.....Would it be OK to bypass the thermostat -- that is just
hook the hot black lead directly into the fan to see if it works. I'm
pretty untalented in electrical works, but seems to me the thermostat
is just a fancy on/off switch right?

Or, am I just too anxious.....was my five minute trial at the 60-
degree setting enough that it should have kicked on?

wrote:
....

From the house is a romex cable with black, red, white and green 12
AWG.

The old fan was hooked up black to thermostat. White to White and
green to box ground clip, with the red wire taped over inside the box.

Sounds right --

I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.

That sounds good, too...assuming it's a 120V motor, not 240V, which
would also be the normal...

It has been fairly cool with outside temps hitting 70, so with the fan
thermo at 90, it hasn't kicked on. I did spend about 5-10 minutes
after the install with the thermo dialed down to 60 degrees, but the
fan didn't kick-on then, but I had to dash, so dialed it back up to 90
before departing the attic.

Maybe I am being a bit paranoid, but I am thinking it's not
working.....Would it be OK to bypass the thermostat -- that is just
hook the hot black lead directly into the fan to see if it works. I'm
pretty untalented in electrical works, but seems to me the thermostat
is just a fancy on/off switch right?

Sure, and yes, respectively...


Or, am I just too anxious.....was my five minute trial at the 60-
degree setting enough that it should have kicked on?

Should have kicked on very soon after you turned in on -- would be
highly unusual to have a time delay on a thermostat there.

Questions --

1. Are you sure the breaker to the thermostat is on? Maybe either it
was turned off to service or when the roofers disconnected the fan they
could have shorted the leads and tripped the breaker...

2. You should be able to hear the relay contacts of the thermostat
open/close as you turn the setting up/down past the current temperature.

If you have a VOM, you can test whether the contacts are closing or not
or simply use a light bulb type tester to check for power.

I'm guessing probably it's the breaker is off/tripped...

--

Sounds like you have it right. Those cheesy through the roof attic
ventilators don't kick on until it's pretty hot, so running the stat up and
down may not work. You can test it by connecting the hot leg to the load
side of the stat.



wrote in message
oups.com...
Any electric gurus? Just had a new roof put on. The roofers said the
vent that housed my thermostatically-controlled attic fan was about
shot and should be replaced -- it was only 37 years old.

So, ended up with a whole new unit. Of course, it was up to me to
rewire the beast.

From the house is a romex cable with black, red, white and green 12
AWG.

The old fan was hooked up black to thermostat. White to White and
green to box ground clip, with the red wire taped over inside the box.

I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.

It has been fairly cool with outside temps hitting 70, so with the fan
thermo at 90, it hasn't kicked on. I did spend about 5-10 minutes
after the install with the thermo dialed down to 60 degrees, but the
fan didn't kick-on then, but I had to dash, so dialed it back up to 90
before departing the attic.

Maybe I am being a bit paranoid, but I am thinking it's not
working.....Would it be OK to bypass the thermostat -- that is just
hook the hot black lead directly into the fan to see if it works. I'm
pretty untalented in electrical works, but seems to me the thermostat
is just a fancy on/off switch right?

Or, am I just too anxious.....was my five minute trial at the 60-
degree setting enough that it should have kicked on?

OP here again:

Thanks for the replies:

1). As to the breaker, the roofers never touched them, they just took
out the old fan and fastened it to the rafters, never disconnected
power. When I did the rewire, I turned off all the breakers for the
house, except for the dryer, electric range and well pump, since I had
no idea which of the breakers controlled the fan. Then I flipped them
back on....of course, in the meantime, the responsible breaker could
have failed, but I hate to willy-nilly start replacing them, as I have
a "split buss" panel and there is NO main disconnect to the panel,
meaning "all hot, all the time."

2) According to the fan manual the roofers left me, the fan is 120.

3) Reacting to the "cheesy thermostat" idea, they did note in the GAF
install/owners manual for this new fan that the thermostat was only
"approximately" accurate....so I think I'll wait until the weather
warms, probably next week and see if it kicks on. If it does, fine.
If not, I guess I'll go pull it apart, try the direct connect and work
from that result (VOM, continuity tester, etal).

Only problem is I have an 1980's era analog VOM that I still don't
really understand how to operate.....

wrote:
Any electric gurus? Just had a new roof put on. The roofers said the
vent that housed my thermostatically-controlled attic fan was about
shot and should be replaced -- it was only 37 years old.
...


Sorry I don't have any direct advice for you, but maybe I can offer a
suggestion that may get you thinking about what you really want to do.

Those roof fan vents are more often than not less effective and eat
energy, than a properly sized passive vent system. There are situations
where it is not possible or practical to use passive venting, but most of
the time there is. Since passive vent is cheap to install and no one wants
to bother advertising them, all the adds you see are for the active systems.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

wrote:
OP here again:

Thanks for the replies:

1). As to the breaker, the roofers never touched them, they just took
out the old fan and fastened it to the rafters, never disconnected
power. When I did the rewire, I turned off all the breakers for the
house, except for the dryer, electric range and well pump, since I had
no idea which of the breakers controlled the fan. Then I flipped them
back on....of course, in the meantime, the responsible breaker could
have failed, but I hate to willy-nilly start replacing them, ...

Certainly no reason to replace any breaker, the only question was to
ensure you actually had power _to_ the thermostat...


2) According to the fan manual the roofers left me, the fan is 120.
As expected, but never hurts to be sure...

3) Reacting to the "cheesy thermostat" idea, they did note in the GAF
install/owners manual for this new fan that the thermostat was only
"approximately" accurate....

Yeah, but that's probably "only" 5F or so off of what the the numbers
stamped on the case indicate, not 30. If the temperature was 70-80 in
the attic and you turned it all the way down, I would certainly expect
the contacts to close. If it was way cool in the early morning, then
maybe...

....

Only problem is I have an 1980's era analog VOM that I still don't
really understand how to operate.....


Set it on the AC Voltage measurement and the range greater than 120V --
300V would be a typical choice. Simply measure the voltage across the
black and white wires to the thermostat. If there's 120V there, that's
step one. Turn the thermostat to lowest temperature setting and do same
measurement on the output to neutral. If voltage, all is well at that
point. If not, then you've isolated it to either a bad set of contacts
(or miswiring as remote chance) or the temperature isn't high enough.
Will, of course, have to do the above test at a temperature above the
minimum.

It's certainly no problem to connect the fan leads directly to the input
to the thermostat to make sure it does operate if you do have power to
the thermostat...

--

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:34:45 -0700, wrote:

OP here again:

Thanks for the replies:

back on....of course, in the meantime, the responsible breaker could
have failed, but I hate to willy-nilly start replacing them, as I have

One shouldn't be replacing breakers willy-nilly in any case. I don't
think it's the breaker, but if it comes to that, you take the cover
off the panel and use your VOM to see if any of them are dead,
measuring at the screws on the far sides from the midline of the
panel. Each screw should be 110. If it's a 220 circuit, it will have
two breakers each with 110.

3) Reacting to the "cheesy thermostat" idea, they did note in the GAF
install/owners manual for this new fan that the thermostat was only
"approximately" accurate....so I think I'll wait until the weather

I think they are talking about 1 to 4 degrees, and have that in there
so no one will yell at them for that. My fan thermostat doesn't have
numbers on it, I think for the same reason. If perchance it does turn
out to be far off what it says, you should probably set it for what it
should be, regardless of the number it is set to. That is, if it is
supposed to go on at 90, it should be set that way, regardless of what
number the shaft or knob is pointing at.

warms, probably next week and see if it kicks on. If it does, fine.
If not, I guess I'll go pull it apart, try the direct connect and work
from that result (VOM, continuity tester, etal).

Only problem is I have an 1980's era analog VOM that I still don't
really understand how to operate.....

There was nothing wrong with 80's VOMs. I have one and I use it, and
I have from the 70's, 90's and 00's too. I think I had a small one
from the 60's that I was measuring something under the hood with, and
then left it there, and when I opened the hood 100 miles later, all
that was there was two frayed wires.

But that's ot. Does your meter have a knob? Is setting the knob the
problem? Or is knowing which holes to plug in the wires the problem?

You're going to be forever stuck in kindergarten if you don't learn
how to use a meter. So please post back.

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 07:46:14 -0700, wrote:



The old fan was hooked up black to thermostat. White to White and
green to box ground clip, with the red wire taped over inside the box.

There is another wire already hooked up from the thermostat to the fan
motor. It might be black, but who knows.

There should be 110v between the white and black that you noted.**

If the fan isn't running there should be 110v between the two wires of
the thermostat. If there is and the thermostat is set all the way
down, then it implies the thermostat is broken. You should hear a
small click from the stat when turning it up and down, but it won't
click at the same setting in both directions.

**If there isn't, you have a problem with power. Breaker is tripped,
for example. Is there any chance there is a wall switch somewhere to
turn the fan off with. I have one, that I use in the late fall and
early spring when I want the heat from the sun to warm the attic and
warm my house. I keep the fan turned off all winter too, in case
there is a warm day. I don't think it would go on anyhow though.

OP again.

OK, I posted a separate thread on VOM in case anyone is as clueless as
I am about them....in regards to some other suggestions, someone
mentioned a "light switch" that might be holding back the current.
You know about four feet from me right now, pretty much just below the
attic location of the fan, is a light switch on the wall that doesn't
seem to control anything. I remember screwing around with it this
winter when I was doing some cleaning, and I just looked now and it is
switched off. Now, of course, it couldn't be so simple...but you never
know....

Once some other family members come home, I'll switch it on, go back
into the attic and crank the thermo down again....you never
know....I'd do it now, but my ladder is a tad short and the attic is a
tad high and I have to stretch from the top step to get into the
space, so I prefer someone to hold the ladder when I go up.....

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:14 -0700, wrote:

OP again.

OK, I posted a separate thread on VOM in case anyone is as clueless as
I am about them....in regards to some other suggestions, someone
mentioned a "light switch" that might be holding back the current.
You know about four feet from me right now, pretty much just below the
attic location of the fan, is a light switch on the wall that doesn't
seem to control anything. I remember screwing around with it this
winter when I was doing some cleaning, and I just looked now and it is
switched off. Now, of course, it couldn't be so simple...but you never
know....

Once some other family members come home, I'll switch it on, go back
into the attic and crank the thermo down again....you never
know....I'd do it now, but my ladder is a tad short and the attic is a
tad high and I have to stretch from the top step to get into the
space, so I prefer someone to hold the ladder when I go up.....

The easiest way to check the thermostat is to just disconnect it (with
the breaker off). Wire nut the two wires together. If the fan comes
on you know it is the thermostat.

You already said that putting the thermostat in the lowest setting
made it come on. That tells you that everything else is working.

Terry wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:14 -0700, wrote:

....

You already said that putting the thermostat in the lowest setting
made it come on. That tells you that everything else is working.

Where/when did OP say that? All I've seen was that he said it _didn't_
come on when he cranked it all the way down...

--

On Jun 9, 12:28 pm, dpb wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:14 -0700, wrote:

...

You already said that putting the thermostat in the lowest setting
made it come on. That tells you that everything else is working.

Where/when did OP say that? All I've seen was that he said it _didn't_
come on when he cranked it all the way down...

--

Yeah, I never said that the fan EVER came on. LOL. If it did, I at
least would know I did the wiring correctly. I guess I could have
screwed that up. But I used the right size nuts and yanked on them
pretty hard and then taped them afterward. I learned my lesson that
after I "loosely" wired in a new heater element for an electric dryer.
The near-fire that resulted from the loose wires scared me silly.

And BTW, I WAS so curious that risked the death-defying attic ladder
and NO, turning on the light switch that I mentioned made no
difference.....Nor did turning down the "stat" once again to 60
degrees, but, of course, it is kinda of marginal for that as the
outside temp is about 55 right now....

In article . com,
wrote:

On Jun 9, 12:28 pm, dpb wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:14 -0700, wrote:

...

You already said that putting the thermostat in the lowest setting
made it come on. That tells you that everything else is working.

Where/when did OP say that? All I've seen was that he said it _didn't_
come on when he cranked it all the way down...

--

Yeah, I never said that the fan EVER came on. LOL. If it did, I at
least would know I did the wiring correctly. I guess I could have
screwed that up. But I used the right size nuts and yanked on them
pretty hard and then taped them afterward. I learned my lesson that
after I "loosely" wired in a new heater element for an electric dryer.
The near-fire that resulted from the loose wires scared me silly.

And BTW, I WAS so curious that risked the death-defying attic ladder
and NO, turning on the light switch that I mentioned made no
difference.....Nor did turning down the "stat" once again to 60
degrees, but, of course, it is kinda of marginal for that as the
outside temp is about 55 right now....

As others have suggested, shorting the wire leading to and the wire
coming from the thermostat is the quickest, easiest way to see if the
thermostat is defective. Well, inconclusive if the fan still doesn't
work, but definitely bad if the fan does work.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

On Jun 9, 12:28 pm, dpb wrote:
Terry wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:44:14 -0700, wrote:
...

You already said that putting the thermostat in the lowest setting
made it come on. That tells you that everything else is working.
Where/when did OP say that? All I've seen was that he said it _didn't_
come on when he cranked it all the way down...

--
Yeah, I never said that the fan EVER came on. LOL. If it did, I at
least would know I did the wiring correctly. I guess I could have
screwed that up. But I used the right size nuts and yanked on them
pretty hard and then taped them afterward. I learned my lesson that
after I "loosely" wired in a new heater element for an electric dryer.
The near-fire that resulted from the loose wires scared me silly.

And BTW, I WAS so curious that risked the death-defying attic ladder
and NO, turning on the light switch that I mentioned made no
difference.....Nor did turning down the "stat" once again to 60
degrees, but, of course, it is kinda of marginal for that as the
outside temp is about 55 right now....

As others have suggested, shorting the wire leading to and the wire
coming from the thermostat is the quickest, easiest way to see if the
thermostat is defective. Well, inconclusive if the fan still doesn't
work, but definitely bad if the fan does work.

Not "conclusive" yet as the temperatures as yet don't seem to have
climbed very high. He just noted it's only 55F out now and the minimum
setting on the thermostat is something like 60...

What it _will_ conclusively demonstrate is if the fan runs that there is
power and the fan is ok. Of course, that still leaves the state of the
thermostat as indeterminate.

OTOH, if it doesn't run, still indeterminate on all counts...

--

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:33:56 -0700, wrote:


And BTW, I WAS so curious that risked the death-defying attic ladder
and NO, turning on the light switch that I mentioned made no
difference.....Nor did turning down the "stat" once again to 60
degrees, but, of course, it is kinda of marginal for that as the
outside temp is about 55 right now....

But wasn't it hotter earlier, when you turned the stat down the
previous time? If so, the switch might have been the problem then.

So leave the switch on until this is all fixed.

Now the problem is the temp, and it's not going to get any hotter
until tomorrow. (Assuming you are in the western hemisphere)

To bypass the thermostat, you have to find the second wire to the
thermostat, the one that comes already connected. The wire is
probably not hard to find, but you need to find an uninsulated part of
it. With my thermostat, the wire disappears into the thermostat, and
I can't see where it ends. But the other end I think, might be under
a wire nut.

If not, when the power is offf....... BTW, how did you turn the power
off when you installed the new fan if you don't know which breaker is
which? Did you skip that part and just be very careful?

Do you want suggestions of how to to find the wire under the
insulation when the power is on, like stripping a little wire using a
knife with an insulated handle, or while wearing gloves, and then
taping it back late. Or by using an ice pick or a hat pin or a
corsage pin, to pierce the insulation?? (Sort of like insulation
piercing alligator clips that they sell but are hard to find.) And
taping that up later.

You can then measure the voltage across the thermostat. If it is 110,
eitehr it's not hot enough yet for it to close or the stat is broken.

If you still haven't gotten the hang of the meter, or if you know
there is 110***, you could just use a piece of lamp cord or other
fairly heavy wire to bypass the stat. If you have done just what was
needed, you'll see a small spark and the fan will spin. If something
is done wrong, you'll see a bigggg spark, so don't lose your balance
or fall through the ceiling or be touching anything else metal that is
connected that could give you a big shock. And wear gloves, like
leather work gloves, but don't touch anything metal.

***You normally DON'T want to bypsass someplace where there is 110, or
you'll get a big spark, melt things, and blow the fuse, but this is
different if you have found the right wires, because you're bypassing
only a swtich. That is like turning the switch on.

Remember, i'm not a lawyer, doctor, or fireman. Just an idiot who has
never killed himself yet.

If you do trip a breaker, at least from now on you'll know which
breaker controls this.

mm wrote:
snip
Now the problem is the temp, and it's not going to get any hotter
until tomorrow. (Assuming you are in the western hemisphere)

snip

That's one use for heat guns (or hair dryers in a pinch).

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 01:47:31 GMT, CJT wrote:

mm wrote:
snip
Now the problem is the temp, and it's not going to get any hotter
until tomorrow. (Assuming you are in the western hemisphere)

snip

That's one use for heat guns (or hair dryers in a pinch).

Yes, good point.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.


I have a problem with the tape. In the hot environment of the attic, tape
will come un-stuck and unwind from whatever it's wrapped on, fan or no fan.
Wire nut it.

Note that wire nut and scotch-lock are not the same thing. A "scotch lock"
is an IDC (insulation displacement connector); it slices the insulation and
makes contact with the wire. Not much contact at that. I'd feel better
with a wire nut or a crimp connection.

In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.


I have a problem with the tape. In the hot environment of the attic, tape
will come un-stuck and unwind from whatever it's wrapped on, fan or no fan.
Wire nut it.

Note that wire nut and scotch-lock are not the same thing. A "scotch lock"
is an IDC (insulation displacement connector); it slices the insulation and
makes contact with the wire. Not much contact at that. I'd feel better
with a wire nut or a crimp connection.

In this case, the red wire is unused, IIRC from the OP's original post.
Not clear whether it's connected to a power source at the other end,
though.

On Jun 9, 8:42 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.

I have a problem with the tape. In the hot environment of the attic, tape
will come un-stuck and unwind from whatever it's wrapped on, fan or no fan.
Wire nut it.

Note that wire nut and scotch-lock are not the same thing. A "scotch lock"
is an IDC (insulation displacement connector); it slices the insulation and
makes contact with the wire. Not much contact at that. I'd feel better
with a wire nut or a crimp connection.

In this case, the red wire is unused, IIRC from the OP's original post.
Not clear whether it's connected to a power source at the other end,
though.

Don't know what the red wire is for. IN the original installation, it
was folded over and taped with masking tape. It lasted some 37 years.
I put a wirenut on it and "cinched it tight" and then wrapped
electrical tape around the whole thing as double insurance. It ain't
going nowhere. I added the term "scotch Lock" because a neighbor of
mine uses that term for wirenuts and I am not sure what is the correct
term...but the package I bought them in says wire nut "professional
grade." Yeah right . LOL

I think for a lot of people, the term Scotchlok is synonymous with wire nut,
just as Kleenex is to tissue



wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 9, 8:42 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
I hooked up new fan basically the same way, except I put a wirenut
(scotch lock) on the red wire and wrapped it up with electrical tape.

I have a problem with the tape. In the hot environment of the attic,
tape
will come un-stuck and unwind from whatever it's wrapped on, fan or no
fan.
Wire nut it.

Note that wire nut and scotch-lock are not the same thing. A "scotch
lock"
is an IDC (insulation displacement connector); it slices the insulation
and
makes contact with the wire. Not much contact at that. I'd feel
better
with a wire nut or a crimp connection.

In this case, the red wire is unused, IIRC from the OP's original post.
Not clear whether it's connected to a power source at the other end,
though.

Don't know what the red wire is for. IN the original installation, it
was folded over and taped with masking tape. It lasted some 37 years.
I put a wirenut on it and "cinched it tight" and then wrapped
electrical tape around the whole thing as double insurance. It ain't
going nowhere. I added the term "scotch Lock" because a neighbor of
mine uses that term for wirenuts and I am not sure what is the correct
term...but the package I bought them in says wire nut "professional
grade." Yeah right . LOL

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I think for a lot of people, the term Scotchlok is synonymous with wire
nut, just as Kleenex is to tissue




Kleenex & tissue are the same physical item. Scotch lock and wire nut are
100% different physically. A wire nut is applied with fingers, a scotch
lock requires pliers. (after the wire's stripped of course)

In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I think for a lot of people, the term Scotchlok is synonymous with wire
nut, just as Kleenex is to tissue




Kleenex & tissue are the same physical item. Scotch lock and wire nut are
100% different physically. A wire nut is applied with fingers, a scotch
lock requires pliers. (after the wire's stripped of course)

If a scotchlok is an IDC device as you said before, why would you strip
the insulation?

good catch, i meant you strip the wire for a wire nut.


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Bob M." wrote:

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
I think for a lot of people, the term Scotchlok is synonymous with wire
nut, just as Kleenex is to tissue




Kleenex & tissue are the same physical item. Scotch lock and wire nut
are
100% different physically. A wire nut is applied with fingers, a scotch
lock requires pliers. (after the wire's stripped of course)

If a scotchlok is an IDC device as you said before, why would you strip
the insulation?

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:49:02 -0600, "Bob M." wrote:

good catch, i meant you strip the wire for a wire nut.

The kind of mistake that couldn't have been made before computers.
You probably had the sentence right, then put in the bit about scotch
lock after "fingers".

A wire nut is applied with fingers, a scotch
lock requires pliers. (after the wire's stripped of course)